Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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mingus
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Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by mingus » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:56 pm

I am going to assemble a PC for my brother-in-law. he wants to game a little, not a hard-core gamer.

we wanted quiet as possible and I noticed that the Asus ROG STRIX Z390-I GAMING Mini ITX has only one case fan header.

this case has 3 case fans, was thinking about replacing with Noctua fans? (140mm in front?)

this is how it looks right now:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jfy74n

thank you for any ideas.

Abula
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Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by Abula » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:57 pm

we wanted quiet as possible and I noticed that the Asus ROG STRIX Z390-I GAMING Mini ITX has only one case fan header.
I would go with dual of the same fans on each of the two headers with Y splitter.
this case has 3 case fans, was thinking about replacing with Noctua fans? (140mm in front?)
be quiet! Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM, BL067, Cooling Fan its a better choice imo.
ASUS ROG Strix Z390-I Gaming
Its a nice motherboard, but my recommendation for ITX is the ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC, its cheaper, better vrms, better heatsinks and one more fan header. Optimum tech has a nice video of it Best ITX Board for 9900K - ASRock Z390 Phantom ITX Tested.
SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Platinum 650 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
I'm not a big fan of the Nano S more because of the placement of the GPU and PSU, specially with a card that has dual/triple fans as it might starv, there is a solution for this, that might even allow you to use triple slots, and its to go with lower height PSU. My first recommendation is the Corsair SF600 Platinum it comes with ATX bracket adapter, braided shorter cables, etc, another worth checking is the Seasonic Focus SSR-650SGX, as the corsair is thinner so it will give more room to the gpu, but this one goes deeper that shouldnt affect the gpu, also has a bigger fan that might be better, but its gold instead of platinum, reserach on both what will be a better choice for your build.
EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB XC GAMING Video Card
If you are building with quiet in mind, i recommend you check TechPowerUp ASUS GeForce RTX 2070 Super STRIX OC Review.
Noctua NH-L9x65 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler
According to Fractals specs, CPU cooler max height = 162mm, so my recommendation is to go with Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B (155mm height), it will allow any ram height as it doesn't overlap and if you go that route, i would get a Scythe Kaze Flex 120mm SU1225FD12M-RHP (the same fans as on the mugen5) to place it as the back case fan, use Y PWM splitter to control both fans (if you go with asrock you have an extra header).
Fractal Design Define Nano S Mini ITX Desktop Case
Another case to check out is MetallicGear Neo Mini V2 Series Mini-ITX Case (MG-NE210_SR02), similar sized to the NanoS but with some changes, one that stands out is that they PSU is placed on top, and the bottom of the case is perforated, so this will allow you to use a standard ATX PSU (like the one you chose on the list) and still use a dual or even a triple slot gpu.

I did a build recently with 9700K + NE210 + Seasonic Platinum PSU + Scythe Mugen5 + AsRock Z390 phantom, to me its a really nice combo, that might fit what you are trying to build. Ill try to take some pics over the weekend.
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mingus
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:31 pm

Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by mingus » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:26 am

This is a *huge* help! his current motherboard is Asrock, they have always worked well for me.

I really like the case! should not be a problem with 2.7 slot card?

we were hoping for something with no window. just don't see anything that works. (smaller and 2.7-slot GPU support)

will change the case, motherboard, gpu, and cooler.

might look at different slightly faster memory ddr4-3000? didn't want to overclock really.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FQDBq3

I would love to see pics of your build.

thanks again!

Tim

Abula
Posts: 3607
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Location: Guatemala

Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by Abula » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:44 pm

mingus wrote:might look at different slightly faster memory ddr4-3000? didn't want to overclock really.
Intel doesn't benefit as much on fast memory as AMD, but if your budget allows, my top picks depending if you want 16 or 32, just enter the bios and enable XMP and be done,
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z370 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-16GTZSW
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z370 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSW

Some recommendations,

1) The PSU you previously chose is fine, but i left you a picture into how much there is left toward the bending of the cables, mine is the SeaSonic Electronics Prime Ultra 550W Platinum Modular Power Supply specially because of the 140mm length (yours i believe is 160mm), i still think your psu will be fine, but smaller give you a little more lead to have the cables bend some. Check on the pictures on the bottom,

2) Install the mugen5 on the motherboard outside the case, install the back fan also before mounting the motherboard to the case, and then as you see from the picture, you have some room you can move the back fan to be placed almost like a secondary fan on the mugen.

3) The back fan i recommend the same fan as on the mugen5, but i see on your new part list you chose a Bequiet, if you want to go that route, then go with be quiet! Silent Wings 3 120mm PWM, BL066, Cooling Fan, remember to go into the bios and plan your fan curves the fans.

4) If your budget allows go with the Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2tb and be done, less cables meaning less cable management and less things to mount, not sure why you have a Crucial 500gb sata?

5) I left you a picture with the Asus GTX1660Ti Strix which is also 2+ slot card, but crosscheck the length of the 2070 and compare with mine and decide if it will fit.
mingus wrote:I would love to see pics of your build.
I leave you some pics,
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mingus
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:31 pm

Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by mingus » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:48 pm

went with a single 1tb SSD for now. I was thinking 2) m.2 SSD since the board supports.

550 Watts is fine with the 2070 super? there are 3 models of the 2070S. this one seems to have the 0db feature.

was trying to stay within the budget and went ddr4-3000 g.skill.

3 case fans and 2 fan headers on the board.

That is Noctua cooler on your build? very nice!

https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/Shar ... F7Qg%3d%3d

How can I take care of you for help?

Thank you again

Abula
Posts: 3607
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Location: Guatemala

Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by Abula » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:56 am

mingus wrote:550 Watts is fine with the 2070 super? there are 3 models of the 2070S. this one seems to have the 0db feature.
Yes, 550W is plenty for your build. Remember to push the button on the PSU for it to be hybrid passive.
mingus wrote:3 case fans and 2 fan headers on the board.
No, the board has 3 headers. Remember to install the NVME ssd first, then CPU and CPU cooler to the board (outside the case), after install the case fans to the case, then install the motherboard to the case, then plug the back case fan and two frontal fans with Y PWM splitter, then plug all your power cables, specially the 8pin power as you wont have access later on, and then you can install the PSU, it will help to do the PSU last as its very tight space to work with once its install.
Asrock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITXAC.jpg
mingus wrote:That is Noctua cooler on your build? very nice!
The cooler on the picture is the Scythe Mugen5 Revb just with Noctua NF-A12x25, i didn't suggest them because they are way more expensive and changing both imo its not worth it, the Scythe fan is a good fan. But if you don't mind the colors and you willing to drop $60 on two fans, go for it.
The list seems solid, if you need anymore help, ill be around, put some time into the bios fan control, set up your graphs and you will end up with a quiet PC (not silent, but very quiet).

One last important recommendation, on the Asus RTX2070 Super, switch the vBIOS to Q MODE before you connect it, you can't do it once it has power.
Asus RTX2070 Super Strix.jpg
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mingus
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Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by mingus » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:10 am

great info once again.

probably stick with stock Mugen5 fans. Noctua's are great tho.

3 case fans, 3 headers, maybe one for the CPU fan, so splitter needed?

hopefully, I can dial all the fans in pretty well.

Abula
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Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by Abula » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:54 am

mingus wrote:probably stick with stock Mugen5 fans. Noctua's are great tho.
Its not as good as NF-A12x25, but i would use it, its pretty good. I also think its a good route to go with the same fan for the back case, instead of the Bequiet to save some money, while on 140mm its harder to get good fans, on 120mm there is a lot more options, Scythe Kaze Flex 120mm Fan, Quiet Case/CPU Cooler Fan, 4-Pin 300-1200 RPM(SU1225FD12M-RHP) is what comes bundled on the Mugen5, ill try to explain down below why i suggested the Kazaflex over the Bequiet, for now i leave you the PWM graphs of the fans suggested.
Scythe Kaze Flex 120 PWM SU1225FD12M-RHP.jpg
be quiet! SILENTWINGS 3 PWM BL066 120mm 1450rpms.png
be quiet! SILENTWINGS 3 PWM BL067 140mm 1000rpms.png
mingus wrote:3 case fans, 3 headers, maybe one for the CPU fan, so splitter needed?
Yes and no, you will have 4 fans (3 case 1 CPU) and 3 headers, so in essence you do need one PWM Y Splitter, i would use it for the two frontal Bequiet BL067, as both fans will be identical. I would then use one for the CPU fan and the remaining for the Back case fan, but i had one small issue during my build, for some reason that i couldn't drop the BL067 below 800rpms on one of the headers (i think was the CHA_FAN1), like the board was trying to undervolt it instead of using the PWM signal, not sure if its an issue just with my board, but i solved by changing to another header and the NF-A40 worked fine on the header that the BL067 didn't allow to be dropped below 800rpms. This is one of the main reasons im suggesting you also get a Kazeflex fan for the back, if you encounter the same issue as me, you can solve it with two PWM Y splitters, one for the front and one for the CPU and back.

If you have time, do the following, lay down the motherboard over the carton box it come with, install the NVME, the 9700F, the Mugen5, connect the Kazaflex fan to the CPU_FAN header, connect the back case fan to the CHA_FAN2 header and BL067 to the CHA_FAN1, connect the PSU power cord, 8pin and 24pin to the motherboard and short with screw driver the power pins on the motherboard to start the pc, enter the bios and play with the fan curves, try to see if you can reach the values i posted on the graphs above, this is just to make sure you wont have the issue i had with BL067 and how you will connect them once you assemble on the case, this will save you a lot of time that i lost. If you dont have my issue, you can use all 3 headers, if you do, you can only use two headers, meaning that the back case fan would ideally be the same as the CPU fan so you know the same rpms are being ran when controlling it, and this is why the PWM splitters are useful.
mingus wrote:hopefully, I can dial all the fans in pretty well.
Its pretty easy, and its easier than it looks, enter the bios, go into the Hardware monitor and don't run the automatic tuner, i personally don't use use it but feel free to test it, but if you do, remove the delays it places on each fan. Check that each fan is set to CPU temperature (i don't use chipset to setup my fans, but up to you). Go Fantastic Tuning an setup each graph according to your personal preferences, Ill give you some starting points that are only suggestions into what will be quiet and still sustain the 9700f fine, but take them as references but you should be the final saying on here, maybe you like more quiet or more cool and willing to take more noise, etc, again here is up to you.

For the BL067 start between 30-40% PWM for 55C on temperature, the second breakpoint place 40-50% for 65-70C, the third breakpoint place 60% PWM for 80C, the 4th break point i would suggest 85C 90% and the fifth 100% 86C. If you see it starts very low and the slope of the graph is very mild, once it reaches above 70C climbs very fans, the idea here is to have a very quiet pc on idle, light load, even gaming, but if you go into encoding or editing and the CPU temp climbs to have a appropriate response from the fans. Space the first breakpoint on temperature, i chose 55C because thats the spikes it reaches sometimes opening programs, i try to cushion any normal load that i have on the first breakpoint, this helps to evade any breathing effect, like if you start too low on temperature with a very low PWM, you will have spikes that will start throwing the fan up and down a lot, and in some cases this is much more perceivable than a standard sustain rpm.
Asrock Bios fan curve.jpg
The the suggested graph as starting point, you should change it as you feel its better for you, there are some that even turn off fans and start them at certain temperatures, etc, remember after you setup the graph, enter windows do the usual things and even run some stress tests, so you get a feeling into if you need to change the graph, this process takes me about two hours of rebooting into the bios and doing small changes and re entering windows and testing, but once you do it well, its very likely you will never change it, and since its bios fan control its very reliable vs software, and you can down the road go into other OS like linux and still have the same settings as its OS independent.
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mingus
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:31 pm

Re: Fractal Design Define Nano S - Quiet case fans?

Post by mingus » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:25 pm

the Mugen5 backplate was on top of a chip on the board.

mugen5.jpg
mugen5_2.jpg
scythe_email.jpg

I ended up going with Noctua NH-U12S Chromax.black, and Noctua NF-F12 PWM chromax.black.swap fan for the rear.

noctua_cr.jpg

It's booted on the bench with the 2) 140mm be quiet fans on chassis fan 1 header with a splitter. at first they were barely turning, now seem to be okay.

the Noctua fans are on the 2 CPU cooler headers separate.

3_fans.jpg

never used RGB lighting. the video card lights are dimming on and off. not sure if I need a cable from the video card to motherboard to use Asus software maybe?
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