Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Got a shopping cart of parts that you want opinions on? Get advice from members on your planned or existing system (or upgrade).

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Olle P
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Location: Sweden

Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by Olle P » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:51 am

As for motherboard I'm currently running an MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, which is very similar to the ... Edge WiFi but without the WiFi.
These MSI boards have gotten a lot of criticism for poor VMR efficiency and cooling, but it's good enough unless you overclock. Notice that most X570 boards require two power feeds, either 8+4 pin or 8+8 pin.
The chipset cooling fan stays off since I don't run a pair of M.2 PCIe 4.0 extreme performance SSDs i RAID0 and showes droves of data. (That's about what it takes to make the chipset warm enough to have the fan spin.)
I do have an M.2 Samsung 860 EVO SATA SSD, and on this mobo using M.2 SATA (which can only be done on one of the sockets) does not disengage any of the regular SATA connectors, which is good in my book.

CA_Steve
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:52 am

It seems like the reasoning is: you have lots of SATA devices, therefore go with x570. Can you consolidate some of the HDDs?
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

DJTurboToJo
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:57 am

Thanks Olle P:
My plan was first M.2 PCI with Win10 directly connected to the CPU (I think that this is possible with x570) to avoid too much travel. The second M.2 PCI will be split into half and the first half is just as a replacement for my existing 1GB OS/important data Raid1 that I had. I want to use the second M.2 to access data but will probably also have some frequently accessed data on the first M.2. The other half of the second M.2 will be for a system image that I want to do daily (I still have to get this started, I've never done that before).

I also read that the fan doesn't spin that much and I won't be overclocking and don't really need that much speed neither am I transferring lots of data.

So you're using M.2 SATA on one of the M.2 slots, right? Isn't this then capped by SATAIII limit which is 6Gb/s = 750MB/s, right? And the M.2 on PCIe4.0x4 is capped at 2GB/s x 4 = 8GB/s. Well, the fastes retail NVMe that I've is the 970 EVO Plus which has a max of 3.5GB/s so a PCIe3x4 (like on the B450 board or the Prime C570 Pro with Vega graphics) would still be enough.

Oh, and I now realized that with a Vega graphic chip like the 3400G I will lose 2 of the PCIe4.0x16 slots on the Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming and will have only one left x16 left with will turn into PCIe3.0x8.

I also checked out the MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI (it's just $40 more than the non-wifi and has wifi ax (I have only ac right now) at $290).

Using 3400G with Vega means:
- Asus ROG Strix X570-E: PCIe x16_1 @ x8 (PCIe 3.0) and 2x PCIe 4.0 x1 left | PCIe x16_2 and PCIe x16_3 disabled | 2x M.2 stays @ PCIe4.0x4
- Asus Prime X570 Pro: PCIe x16_1 @ x8 (PCIe3.0) and 1 x PCIe 4.0 x16 (max at x4 mode) and 3 x PCIe 4.0 x1 left | PCIe x16_2 disabled (it starts with 2 instead of 3)| M.2_1 down to PCIe 3.0 x4 and M.2_2 stays @ PCIe 4.0 x4
- MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI: PCIe x16_1 @ x8 (PCIe 3.0) and 3x PCI3.0x1 and 1xPCIe4.0x4 @ PCIe3.0x4 left | M.2_1 down to PCIe 3.0 x4 and M.2_2 stays @ PCIe 3.0 x4
- MPG X570 GAMING Pro Carbon WIFI: PCIe x16_1 @ x8 (PCIe 3.0) and 2x PCI3.0x1 and 1xPCIe4.0x4 @ PCIe3.0x4 left | M.2_1 down to PCIe 3.0 x4 and M.2_2 stays @ PCIe 3.0 x4

Adding 2x M.2 PCIe means nothing else will go puff for these x570 boards.

As M.2 stays at PCIe4x4 for the Strix and I don't fully understand what PCIe4.0x16(max at x4 mode) means I still prefer the Strix as it also has lots of USB ports. But honestly there are such small differences between these boards and way to many to look at, they will probably all fit my current need. I just want to make a wise decision and now I'm getting a bit frustrated looking at so many choices and then my head gets spinning when I think of well if I add this PCI card what are the implications. I will just order the Strix and see how it goes. Maybe it's too expensive, maybe it's also worth it. Let's see.

Thanks Steve, I have to think about that. I need a DVD drive (1x SATA), an Ubuntu drive (I want to be able to have the boot record on this drive, no bootloader and I want to be able to plug it in and out in a different pc, so 2x) and a data drive (3x). So three are mandatory, but I get 2 1TB drives free (replaced by 2 M.2), have the Win8.1 still which I don't really use actually and also have an external USB backup drives that I was considering to replace by a bigger ones so I get there also 1 more. It's not that I need to have that much space but maybe I can do something with them if I have them and not buying a bigger internal aswell. But I should to think about that, true. I'd like to have 6 SATA just to be sure, then if I have to use another drive for my system image or if still do a RAID1 it's a bit easier and less hassle. 8 like in the Strix is not necessary but why not if the rest also fits.

@Steve: If I order these parts from Canada, can I still use the link in your signature so SPCR gets some comission or should I use another link? I'd prefer to buy mostly everything from one shop max 2. I've read the shopping tips in this forum for Canada but frankly these are a bit old so I'm not sure if they are up-to-date. Anyways, what's the best way to support SPCR when buying my items?

CA_Steve
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:44 am

The site recently changed hands, so I expect my current support links have/will change. Order from your preferred e-tailer. :)

External USB 3.0 drives are pretty cheap these days and have similar performance to SATA. So, if you are swapping them around between PCs, seems external might be better than internal. Also, the USB powered drives are 2.5" and pretty darn quiet. The hitch would be if it's a bootable drive and whether the system in question can boot from a USB drive.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

DJTurboToJo
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:16 pm

Thanks all for your help. I did order most parts today. I guess a bad timing as prices went up quite a bit according to partpicker and also the delivery is expected to be pretty long due to covid. I did change the Intel M.2 though. An interesting thread about the Intel 660P is https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/thre ... ds.254386/. The issue is QLC when it gets full it slows the speed rate down quite a bit. Leaving 20% unallocated should solves the issue. A recent review of M.2s: https://www.pcgamer.com/best-nvme-ssd/.
I ended up ordering Western Digital Black SN750 NVMe SSD M.2 PCI-E x4, 1TB for $215. This was mentioned in the thread above and also on pcgamer.com.

And I also ordered a USB enclosure but that took again more one thought, see https://www.canadacomputers.com/product ... _id=094787. It has a USB 3.1 Type C, a SATAIII controller and a USB 3.0 cable. Looking at USB wiki reveals quite a bit of a naming convention issue:
Name |Old name |Original name |USB-IF branding |Transfer speed
USB 3.2 Gen 1 |USB 3.1 Gen 1 |USB 3.0 |SuperSpeed USB 5Gbps |5 Gbit/s
USB 3.2 Gen 2 |USB 3.1 Gen 2 |USB 3.1 |SuperSpeed USB 10Gbps |10 Gbit/s
USB 3.2 Gen 2 x 2 | |USB 3.2 |SuperSpeed USB 20Gbps |20 Gbit/s
There are lots of 3.1 involved. Then the hunt for the speed of that enclosure: SATAIII max is 6Gbit/s which translates to 600MB/s, so depending now what 3.1 type-C means (probably USB 3.1 from 2014) this would have max of 10Gbit/s and then the cable which is 3.0 has a max of 5 Gbit/s. Wow! So in the end the max is still 3.0 which is 5Gbit/s and then the highest transfer for a HDD is 200 MB/s anyways.
Anyhow I hope it will be a step up from my USB 2.0 (max transfer = 480Mbit/s=60MB/s but only for the revised USB 2.0) / SATAII (max 3Gb/s=300MB/s) enclosure with a max of 60MB/s.

So right now it looks like this.
Option R5 3400G (v3):
-CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3400G 3.7 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($210),
-Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($125)
-Mainboard: Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ($415)
-GPU: integrated, RX Vega 11
-RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3200MHz CL16 Memory Kit ($240), CMK32GX4M2Z3200C16
-M2 SSD 1 (Win10): Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($170), R3500/W3300MB/s
-M2 SSD 2 (Data/OS Image): Western Digital Black SN750 NVMe SSD M.2 PCI-E x4, 1TB ($215)
-SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 120 GB for Ubuntu (legacy)
-HDD1: Data 1TB SATA RAID 1 Samsung HD103SJ (legacy)
-HDD2: Data, 3TB Seagate ST3000DM0001 SATA (legacy)
-HDD3: Win8, 500GB Samsung HD502HJ SATA (legacy)
-Spare HDD: 1TB SATA RAID 1 Samsung HD103SJ (legacy)
-DVD: Sony Optiarc DVD RW AD-7263 (legacy)
-Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case ($200)
-PSU: Corsair RMxSeries RM650 x80+ Gold Fully Modular ATXP ower Supply, 650W ($150), didn't have 550W in stock

Olle P
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by Olle P » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:51 am

DJTurboToJo wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:57 am
So you're using M.2 SATA on one of the M.2 slots, right? Isn't this then capped by SATAIII limit...?
No. That SSD's read/write speed is below the SATA3 transfer speed (as is most budget SSDs).

CA_Steve
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 am

Have fun w/ your build.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

DJTurboToJo
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Fri May 01, 2020 1:37 pm

Thank you all for your input. Finally I've received all the parts and put it together. Especially getting the CPU was pretty hard. My pc is way faster than before, also the Win10 fresh installation is much nicer than my former Win10 upgrade, it's pretty quite, sometimes I'm not even sure if it's on or sleeping or maybe completely turned off. Thanks for that. I think the loudest right now are the case fans (Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C) which I think are a bit louder than the BeQuiet ones, but I haven't measured any db.

A few things I want to share:
1) When I put all the pieces together I forgot to attach the 12V ATX (8pin). I had the long one (24pin) plugged in and the PC didn't boot. When I turned it on the fans were spinning for a few seconds and then stopped. The BIOS (UEFI) was not running and the leds on the board signaling a faulty component were not showing anything. Frankly, I think the manual is not 100% clear about which atx connections are required and the pins on the power 12V atx 4pin adapter do look differently on the board and coming from the psu but of course it was my fault. I took everything out thinking there might be a faulty component. The mobo q code was 00 (the manual says "Not used"), others said it could be many things like cpu pin, faulty ram,...:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... e-solution
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... -Q-Code-00
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... ng-Q-Reset

So I did clear the bios without the battery and then when I started the pc it was still not going to run the bios but the fans were spinning all the time. I was still not able to turn off the pc with the button I had to turn it off at the psu.

But: there was all the time a small red light at the 4pin and 8pin ATX slots on the board. I couldn't find anything about it anywhere in the manual and nothing on the web. I was just not making the connection that this red light means "do have a look here, we need this 8pin attached" and finally when I tried out the psu from my old pc I figured that this was the problem. So, now it works, I hope I didn't do any harm to any component trying to boot the pc without the 8pin.

2) The fan on the board was running when I assembled the pc and started it the first time and I don't think the fan was really quite. Of course the case was open as I was putting everything together. It's not running now (I believe, case is closed), at least I don't hear it. If it were running and the case is not able to reduce the noise this might be a bit annoying, but again this is just an assumption and the fan is pretty small.

- Does the case (Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C) have any light indicating if the pc is turned on/off or hibernating?
- Would someone consider replacing the case fans with beQuiet fans or would they just be as loud/quite?

Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated and I'm very happy with the setup now.

Olle P
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by Olle P » Tue May 05, 2020 6:39 am

DJTurboToJo wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:37 pm
... When I put all the pieces together I forgot to attach the 12V ATX (8pin). ...
I think it's safe to say that we've all been there... :)

Those power connectors are what feed the CPU, so why didn't you think of checking it at the first sign of problem?

DJTurboToJo
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Tue May 05, 2020 9:35 am

Thanks, I know. There was this little red light on the mobo [EDIT](which is just under the 8pin ATX 12V)[/EDIT] and the fans stopped working after a few seconds, even before POST (or whatever this is called now). The thing is that every part was new. And I built my last PC 10 years ago, so fair enough to say I was out of practice. And I didn't know if it's the PSU, RAM, CPU, mobo. The Q-Code 00 on the mobo also confused me. Why don't they just say error XX means please give me enough power. Also I was confused by the whole discussion about 12V 4pin, 8pin and then the 24pin ATX power. After I checked and found out that the 8pin PSU adapter doesn't have the same layout as the mobo (by that I mean circle or square for the pins) I thought, well maybe I don't need it. I also check Corsairs website and there were many different 8pin versions on https://www.corsair.com/us/en/psu-cable-compatibility. There is 8-pin EPS12V Type 3 and Type 4, then Fixed 8-pin EPS12V, AX1200 only — 8-pin EPS12V, AX Gold only — 8-pin EPS12V. If it didn't start at all then I would have checked the PSU again but as it did something for a short while I thought it might be a faulty part. I even tried to plug the 8 pin ATX 12V in but didn't want to force it so left it unplugged. Then I took everything out and checked the cooler, CPU, RAM, PSU. I even used the 24pin ATX from my old PSU and it didn't boot (as I didn't use the 8pin). How stupid. Finally, when I saw my old mobo with these 8pin 12V also attached I checked the PSU adapter and it looks exactly as the new one. In the manual they are using numbers and letters and usually numbers are the steps but for the PSU it's numbers and letters. Well, as I said that was my fault but I did everything else so diligently that I was surprised that I missed that. Also if someone comes across this undocumented light and the 00 code. That doesn't necessarily mean there is some faulty part.

teodoro
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by teodoro » Tue May 05, 2020 12:06 pm

DJTurboToJo wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:37 pm
- Does the case (Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C) have any light indicating if the pc is turned on/off or hibernating?
- Would someone consider replacing the case fans with beQuiet fans or would they just be as loud/quite?
The power button has a blue indicator light, which will flash on standby/flutter during drive activity. There’s also a cut out in the center top of the door which shows the same light. If this isn’t working, your front panel connectors might have been mixed up when you attached them to the motherboard

For replacing the fans, have you set a speed for them in BIOS or some other software? I would recommend playing around with fan speeds, which considering your components you might be fine to leave them at their minimum duty cycle

DJTurboToJo
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Tue May 05, 2020 6:46 pm

Thanks teodoro. I double checked the front cables. They are correctly attached. The case has a single pin for + and one for -, so I would have guessed that it doesn't matter which way I use. I have now + left and - right. What I was able to see today for the first time was a blueish light that came up for about one or two seconds when I booted. I guess I've never looked at the round power button and this slit when I've started my pc. Anyhow, the light went off and I don't see anything when it is up and running.

Is this light turned on constantly when my pc is powered up? And then it goes on and off because of hdd activity? Does HDD LED also works with M.2. I simply thought it doesn't (like there's no RAM light) and that's why I don't see anything. I tried with SATA hdd and it doesn't show any sign of activity. If the light should be on then something might be wrong with mine. Is yours on when your pc is running or is it normally off, turns on when there is hdd/ssd/M.2 activity and flashes when in stand-by?

DJTurboToJo
Posts: 25
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Tue May 05, 2020 7:02 pm

DJTurboToJo wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:46 pm
I guess I've never looked at the round power button and this slit when I've started my pc. Anyhow, the light went off and I don't see anything when it is up and running.
I've just tested it. Switched + and - and no light at all. Switched again and no light. So, maybe there was just no light before, I don't know. Let pc sleep no light.

I also switched the HDD around so that + is on the left. Now the HDD writing on the front i/o cable is downward facing but still nothing with my light.

The manual doesn't say much about it. Weird is that I've just seen some light. So maybe, that was just the last hope and the led died or maybe another connection is loose. Would be happy to know when I should expect some light. Thanks.

[EDIT] I checked the front cable as much I could without taking the whole case apart. It looks ok. I turned the HDD light writting upward facing again and for the power led + is left and - right. While booting the blue light came on again for about 2 seconds. Then it's off no matter what I do: Sleep, I/O. Well I'm looking on my keyboard now to see if the num key light is on (which is usually the case) but if my front light is not working properly I might contact Fractal. Anyway, if someone happens to know what that light is supposed to do, please enlighten me. [/EDIT]

doberso
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by doberso » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:15 am

After looking around some more and even though I did read the current threads in this forum before posting there is just so much new and even newer parts are coming out so fast, well anyhow I'm in favour of Ryzen 7 3700 Pro right now.

DJTurboToJo
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Re: Time for a new silent PC? What to keep? What to replace? What to rethink?

Post by DJTurboToJo » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm

I'm pretty happy with my setup. Thanks again for your input. The case is pretty quite and for my need the cpu is totally fine. Maybe a bit slower but no need to get an extra graphic card. I think it was the right decision (for me).

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