Future Water Cooled

PiSan · Post by **PiSan** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:36 pm

I have just recently built my new computer and I think it should last me a few years yet, however I have caught the buying bug so I am constantly looking at ways to spend more of my money (I've been able to restrain myself so far).

My new computer is quiet enough, but by no means silent, and by no means cool at 45C load. I can't stop thinking about my next computer even though it'll probably be a few years away. Water cooling is seriously appealing right now.

The only thing I'm worried about is that I would like to have the WC system completely in the case. Even though I've seen many computers with that accomplished I see just as many people who are unwilling to do it. What kind of case requirements are needed to fit a water cool setup inside?

Dr.CrackEnHore · Post by **Dr.CrackEnHore** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:14 pm

Honestly I still say stay away from water cooling. I have helped friends set there systems up and I've watched the spend all kinds of money to have this great system, that is not that much better than I am running and definetely not quiter.

Sure it was fun to set up and it sure is something to brag about to you geek friends but as it is now you can still cool pretty well with some of the newest sinks.

Really water cooling only comes into play when you are putting a lot of heat into the system. If you were to put a really good water cooling system in this comp you have right now you would probably only see a few degree drop maybe running 40C under load but even that is not guarenteed.

Also if you are running you HSF at 12v turn it down, you would be surprised how little the heat rises with the fan slower. I am running a 2500+ at 3200+ and only hitting 52C under load, with poor case airflow and the fanmate turned as low as possible.

Pjotor · Post by **Pjotor** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:01 pm

45 degrees C at load is nothing. You can turn down the fans even further, and thus dampen even more noise.

I wouldn't start to worry until I hit about 55 C at load for a P4 and about 60 C for an AMD.

PiSan · Post by **PiSan** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:55 pm

Dr.CrackEnHore wrote: I have helped friends set there systems up and I've watched the spend all kinds of money to have this great system, that is not that much better than I am running and definetely not quiter.

I was under the impression that water cooling was (almost) always quiet. Even if I were to go the liquid route, it wouldn't be for a long while, so who knows what advances might take place by then. Still, it's interesting thing to research.

apocalypse80 · Post by **apocalypse80** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:35 pm

It really depends on your goals.
Running a fully internal setup will require using a small radiator (unless if you have a huge full tower case) , something in size for 1x120mm fan.
I run a fully internal setup with a small radiator with 2 papst 4412FGL@7V (in push-pull) , huge pump (Eheim 1250) and waterblocks on the cpu and northbridge.
It can cool those pretty well since I push 120Watts through the cpu (makes the prescott seem cold

) and maximum overvolt on the northbridge and get 40-42 load at 20-22 ambient.
However I don't think it could handle the extra heat from an overclocked 9800pro.
Bottom line , it does wonders for quiet overclocking (mine cools 10°C better than the SLK900U + banshee fan I had , 25°C+ better than SLK900U + Panaflo M1A@12V) , but if you want utter silence , then you need a huge external radiator (passive if possible) with the entire pc watercooled (cpu+nb+vga+.....).

It also looks way cool , especially for folks like me with windowed side panels and cold cathode lights

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:52 pm

what Dr.CrackEnHore says is quite often very true. i spent AUD500 turning my silent aircooled system into a noisier watercooled system that is actually performing a little worse. kinda sucks.

the truth is, watercooling WILL let you achieve lower sound levels and better cooling power than the best aircooled system, it just takes a LOT of work and quite often a LOT of money and research to get it done.

my advice to you would be to stay with aircooling and get it as quiet as you can, and only if 1) watercooling becomes so trendy/cool you just must have it, or 2) you have money/time and want to get a quieter, cooler system, then go the wc path.

axhind · Post by **axhind** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:16 am

I've got my cpu, nb and vga watercooled with the Asetek Waterchill-set, and it's NOT complete silent at all. I've got it all build in a Sonata and actually it looks like the Waterchill is designed with the Sonata in mind because they fit like a glove together

. The fan is running @7v and it's quiet, you only hear a bit of a 'woosh' if you listen close enough. But what does make noise is the pump. It's something like a constant 'brrm' you hear.
Now I must mention the fact that it's not constructed optimal at all. For instance, I've routed the tubes to the rad outside the case, and I didn't take out the grill of the Sonata so there's a gap between the rad and the fan.
I'm planning on doing a 'revision' on the whole thing, including the acoustipack, so maybe it will be a quiet setup after all.
The only way to get complete watercooled silence is idd working with one huge or 2 smaller rads and cool them passively, but it will take you some time, effort and probably money, especially compare to a quiet aircooled rig...

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:14 am

axhind wrote:...I didn't take out the grill of the Sonata so there's a gap between the rad and the fan...

obviously you don't want the grill there - but you definitely want a gap between the fan and the rad to eliminate the dead spot all so common with axial fans.

when using a fan on a radiator, a ~3cm gap seems to be optimal based on the results from watercooling peoples such as cathar.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:41 pm

yeah, i watercool in my 3700bqe modded a little.

i seriously do not reccomend you buying watercooling unless you are REALLY into it or unless you really really really want it... it does take up alot of time and experimenting and money at first.

boardsportsrule · Post by **boardsportsrule** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:53 am

i would actually disagree with you guys... i set up my first watercooling setup a mont ago, and spent the following money

RAD(2X120mm fans fit, with 1/2" barbs) 35 (local radiator shop)
WATERBLOCK 30 bux(maze 3, still performs VERY good)
gpu water block mcx-50T 35 bux, (one of the best waterblocks out there)
5 3/4" bay res- FREE

pump- eheim 1250 50 bux
2X120mm fans 10 bux
tubing, 5 bux
nuts and bolts 5 bux,
2nd rad for gpu waterblock- traded
OPTIONAL new case

90 shipped

total comes to 170 w/o case or 260 with case

that may seem like alot, but i got one of the best setups i can dream of and for 260 it's damn good... i will admit it took ALONG time to research and lookinto what i want, but now i have a kickass machine and it's just about dead silent....what more do you want???? BTW: i just traded waterblock, from mcw-5000a, sold that and bought a maze 3, waiting for it to arrive but when i get it i will lety u know what kinda temps i get

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:58 pm

hey boardsportsrule,

interesting setup but one which i'd never get for a silence setup, yes it will be very quiet, much quieter than any air cooling but still noisy to my standards

i personally dont believe in watercooling your gpu as it adds alot of excess heat and also alot of restriction in your loop. Considering the fact that gpu's can be passively cooled, it would be alot easier and beneficial to passively cool it, unless your heavily overclocking your gfx card. Also because of this you need a bigger pump, the 1250. As it is, i find my eheim 1048 noisy even elastically suspended there is an audible hum in a quiet room from 2m away.

i built a setup for a friend very similar to that and his temperatures were nowhere near as good as mine, he had a maze 4, danger den gpu block, eheim 1250, heatercore. I had eheim 1048, same heatercore and an older cpu block and had temperatures around 15 deg c better than his.

boardsportsrule · Post by **boardsportsrule** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:23 pm

nice! my system deffinately isn't upto SPCR silent rating but i am a hardcore overclocker too, so i need to find the perfect medium... the maze 4, is actually worse then the maze 3

im watering gpu cuz i had a zalman heatpipe but it got to hot for it when i overclocked..it kinda sucked... i really like gaming and i really like silence...this setup is quiet(not silent) and will give awsoem temps...my mcw-5000a with the same setup gave me about 38C full load with cpu at 2.35 ghz and 1.71 Vcore, so im hoping for 35ish with the maze...we will see, got the maze 3 today, but he didnt include all the bolts and nylon washers so i need to go to hardware store

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:20 pm

seal: i've noticed the same thing with my eheim. although i unashamably love this pump, even when it's rested on 18mm of acoustic material it still hums.

funny thing is, i can't hear the hum from this room, but only from the room next door.

boardsportsrule: yeh i think how you said you got the radiator from a radiator shop is a very important thing. (sorry if my grammar is wrong i'm really tired, was filming all day today). what most people don't realise is that watercooling a computer is hardly different from watercooling much else, and there are already a lot of good products (e.g. radiators, coolant concentrates, etc) on the market that watercoolers (such as me) seem to pass by.

i guess it opens up the market for a few companies to charge a lot of money for certain products aimed specifically at the computer watercooling market, when in fact many generic products will do fine.

boardsportsrule · Post by **boardsportsrule** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:09 am

yeah, for sure...i got a bigger/better radiator then the black ice extreme2 for about 1/2 the price....you just have to be resourcful

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:25 am

Seal wrote:...he had a maze 4, danger den gpu block, eheim 1250, heatercore. I had eheim 1048, same heatercore and an older cpu block and had temperatures around 15 deg c better than his.

Sounds like something else was going on there - 15C is a pretty big difference. I suspect an airflow issue or something of that sort.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:41 pm

hmmm yeah, could be airflow, theres a decent amount of airflow availiable though, with 2 80mm fanholes in the front. If he cut them he'd get a few degrees off that figure, otherwise i really think its just the fact he has alot more to cool. modern GFX cards chuck out alot of heat.

PiSan · Post by **PiSan** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:32 pm

Thanks for all your advice guys. I was beginning to catch a case of the "buyers bug". I'll save my money for a while and see what options the future brings.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:21 am

PiSan wrote:Thanks for all your advice guys. I was beginning to catch a case of the "buyers bug". I'll save my money for a while and see what options the future brings.

yeah i think if yuo just invest in a good quality air cooled system you cant go wrong, you can often get very good results on air with 1/2 the hasstle. Look at the slk-900 range of cpu heatsinks etc... couple that with a quiet panaflo or something.

axhind · Post by **axhind** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:17 am

chylld wrote: obviously you don't want the grill there - but you definitely want a gap between the fan and the rad to eliminate the dead spot all so common with axial fans.

when using a fan on a radiator, a ~3cm gap seems to be optimal based on the results from watercooling peoples such as cathar.

yeah, thanks for the idea, I didn't think of that before

. I guess the best thing to do would be a gap between the two, but to seal it off on the sides. This way I'll get a sort of 'tunnel' between the rad and the fan, eliminating the dead spot but still having the full airflow of the fan on the rad. Now, I also heard that sucking air through the rad would be better than blowing it through, so I'm considering that option too.