4 pin cpu fans

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

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dasman
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4 pin cpu fans

Post by dasman » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:49 pm

I just upgraded to Conroe and am using a Zalman 7000. However, apparently Intel now has moved to 4 pin cpu fans and fan speed control is lost without the 4th pin.

Any recommendations on 92mm 4 pin fans? I'd like to swap a 4 pin onto the Zalman (which I did on one of my other systems a couple of years back)...

thanks

dave

lefteris
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Post by lefteris » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:37 pm

You can try to connect the fan to a motheboard 3pin chassis fan.
I am curious though. You cannot control the 3pin fan connected to the motherboard 4pin using the bios, a motherboard utility, speedfan or something else?

Firetech
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Re: 4 pin cpu fans

Post by Firetech » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:32 pm

dasman wrote:Any recommendations on 92mm 4 pin fans?
There is only one I know of: JMC.

dasman
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Post by dasman » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:19 pm

Unfortunately no, I cannot control the fan using the bios or speedfan (I have it connected to the 4 pin header). According to everything I've read, the 4th pin is specifically for speed control -- in fact, Speedfan says that it's running at 29% (using speedfan to monitor, bios trying to control the speed), but it's running full speed. Turning off the bios and trying to use speedfan to control results in the same thing -- it's running full out.

The only thing I can figure is that you have to use the 4th pin (the stock Intel HSF is a 4 pin connector).

As for the JMC -- a little expensive, but I'll probably give it a shot. Are they any good?

dave

widman
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Post by widman » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:11 am

lefteris wrote:You can try to connect the fan to a motheboard 3pin chassis fan.
I am curious though. You cannot control the 3pin fan connected to the motherboard 4pin using the bios, a motherboard utility, speedfan or something else?
My bad axe 4 pin fan controller cannot control 3 pin fan. I think threadstarter has the same problem.

Firetech
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Nexus

Post by Firetech » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:50 am

send an email to info@nexustek.nl and tell them your wanting a quiet 4 pin fan. They may start producing them if enough people email. :D

Felger Carbon
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Re: Nexus

Post by Felger Carbon » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:13 am

Firetech wrote:send an email to info@nexustek.nl and tell them your wanting a quiet 4 pin fan. They may start producing them if enough people email. :D
Alas, there are problems. A PWM fan is required to start at a PWM setting equivalent to 30% of max RPM (not voltage!), which means a 1000RPM Nexus 4-pin PWM fan would have to start at a 300RPM PWM setting. I believe a 1000RPM Nexus cannot do this. In general, low RPM fans have higher starting voltages.

What this means is, for technical reasons, do not expect low-RPM 4wire PWM fans to appear on the market. Alas, unless they have ball bearings - bb fans seem to have lower starting voltages.

A little-known fact about bb fans: while they typically have longer lives than sleeve-bearing fans, "failure" is defined as failing to provide cooling air. So, when my PSU ball-bearing fan had a bearing freeze up and drag, producing a horrendously loud screeching noise, it was still cooling my PSU and by definition had not failed. That was when I removed all the bb fans from my 3 PSUs and substituted GW NCB 120mm fans. :D

Edit: corrected typo (was 360 instead of 300)
Last edited by Felger Carbon on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

truckman
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Post by truckman » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:08 pm

Arctic Cooling has 4-pin PWM fans on their web site. I haven't stumbled across any vendors selling them, but I haven't gone searching.

ddekany
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Re: Nexus

Post by ddekany » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm

Firetech wrote:Alas, there are problems. A PWM fan is required to start at a PWM setting equivalent to 30% of max RPM (not voltage!), which means a 1000RPM Nexus 4-pin PWM fan would have to start at a 300RPM PWM setting. I believe a 1000RPM Nexus cannot do this. In general, low RPM fans have higher starting voltages.
Would it still be a problem, if most motherboards provide usable PWM control? Because maybe then, a 4 pin nexus fan could have whatever huge maximum RPM, as you can slow it down to the speed that you need anyway. Or not?

Anyway, it also would help a lot if (most?) companies don't keep it as top-secret what the hell Q-Fan or Silent Fan or younameit concretely means for a given motherboard model. Or at all. What parameters can I specify, etc. Whatever, they will not tell you... :x By that they would take the great risk of having a bit more customers.

fabre
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Post by fabre » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:24 pm

Aside from the JMC fan there is also an Evercool 4pin fan
http://nexfan03.stores.yahoo.net/92x92x ... m12bp.html
Based on the specs it should be a bit quieter than the JMC at full speed

at 10% the JMC is dead silent, it actually spin so slow the rpm don't even register on my motherboard
But it's still sufficient to keep my X2 3800 in the low 30c (XP-90 heratsink)

(btw I will be selling my 92mm JMC soon, I am changing motherboard for one that only take 3 pin fan.)

pcy
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Post by pcy » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:27 am

Hi,


So far I have found two solutions to this problem.

1. Use a different (3pin) fan header.

This works fine on the Intel DP965LT because the header for the rear exhaust fan is 3pin, and its output voltage is tied to the Motherboard temperature. The sensor is so close to the CPU that it might as well be measuring CPU temperature.

But that may not work on all Motherboards.


2. Get a PWM (4pin) to 3pin converter. Nobody seemed to make one, so I've had one designed. The protoypes work great, and are in use on the machines I build. We are making the first production batch of 50 right now in case anybody else is intereted.



Peter

ddekany
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Post by ddekany » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:00 am

fabre wrote:I am changing motherboard for one that only take 3 pin fan
For some motherboards with 4 CPU fan you can chose in the BIOS if the CPU fan will be controlled with PWM or DC voltage (as a 3 pin fan). (Usually they don't tell you on the Web page of the product if it can do that or not, but they used to do a mistake: traditionally there are those BIOS setup screenshot pages in the motherboard manual, and the manual is usually downloadable. So from there you can find out. Of course, it still leaves the question open if you can have an usable software (like BIOS settings) to control the fan, but that was true for 3 pin-only as well.)

mattcoz
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Post by mattcoz » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:49 pm

Does anyone know if the ASUS Q-Fan 2 control on the P5B Deluxe works with 3 pin CPU fans? Also, how many fans can it control?

edit: Ok, in the manual it says it does the CPU fan and 3 chassis fans. I don't see anything about requiring 4 pin fans or if 3 pin fans would work.

ddekany
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Post by ddekany » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:21 pm

I know I'm too picky, but surely they don't require a 4 pin CPU fan, since 3 pin fans will work as well (just they will always spin on maximum speed -- means they don't work for a silencer). Now if they don't indicate the PWM/DC option, not even in the manual, then IMHO they desire to lose tons of customers (including you) because not having that feature, even if in fact they provided that feature (that I don't know).

Hint: I have seen this feature documented in the manual of Gigabyte GA-945GM-S2 (which is not even an expensive board). So maybe they have the habit of implementing and documenting this.

pcy
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Post by pcy » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:09 pm

Hi,

Correct.

If you connect a 3pin fan to a 4pin PWM it will just run a max speed, but it clearly will work.


If you then want to control it's speed you can:

1. User the DC featutre in teh bios if ther is one.

2. Use some other 3 pin fan speed contreoller

3. Get a PWM->DC Converter



Peter

mattcoz
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Post by mattcoz » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:10 pm

pcy wrote:If you then want to control it's speed you can:

1. User the DC featutre in teh bios if ther is one.

2. Use some other 3 pin fan speed contreoller

3. Get a PWM->DC Converter
1. It appears that there is not an option. :(

2. I could use one of the chassis fan headers, but I think that is based on the system temp instead of the cpu temp. Although maybe it would work fine if I used Speedfan.

3. This might be my best option, where would I get one of these?

Thanks.

fabre
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Post by fabre » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:26 pm

ddekany wrote:
fabre wrote:I am changing motherboard for one that only take 3 pin fan
For some motherboards with 4 CPU fan you can chose in the BIOS if the CPU fan will be controlled with PWM or DC voltage (as a 3 pin fan). (Usually they don't tell you on the Web page of the product if it can do that or not, but they used to do a mistake: traditionally there are those BIOS setup screenshot pages in the motherboard manual, and the manual is usually downloadable. So from there you can find out. Of course, it still leaves the question open if you can have an usable software (like BIOS settings) to control the fan, but that was true for 3 pin-only as well.)
I am happy with the Bios PWM fan control on my motherboard but I am having some stability issues that have nothing to do with the fan, going from a 4pin header to a 3pin header is just a consequence of the motherboard change (939Dual-Vsta -> Abit AV8)

pcy
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Post by pcy » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:00 pm

Hi,
mattcoz wrote:
pcy wrote:If you then want to control it's speed you can:

1. User the DC featutre in teh bios if ther is one.

2. Use some other 3 pin fan speed contreoller

3. Get a PWM->DC Converter
1. It appears that there is not an option. :(

2. I could use one of the chassis fan headers, but I think that is based on the system temp instead of the cpu temp. Although maybe it would work fine if I used Speedfan.

3. This might be my best option, where would I get one of these?

Thanks.


I have some. I had them designed because I could not find one either. I'm considering selling them. Where do you live?



Peter

mattcoz
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Post by mattcoz » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:29 pm

I live in Chicago.

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:50 pm

dinofx also designed a circuit to convert PWM to reduced voltage DC.

viewtopic.php?t=31684&highlight=

pcy
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Post by pcy » Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:30 pm

Indeed, but they are not available here in teh UK and the cost $35.


I'm thinking $12



Peter

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Post by Ancient1 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:56 pm

I have ASUS P5B Deluxe & speedfan.

The problem with Q-Fan is that it seems all CHASIS Fans are controlled as one, and the CPU Fan apart. :shock:

My problem is that while I can live with CHA Fans (2*2wire fans) working together, I NEED the CPU Connector to Power On/Off a (2wire) 12V Relay that powers my Watercooling system's Freezer .

I.E its not so much varying the CPU Fan Speed but powering it On/Off ( or varying above/below the Relay treshold)

I'm gonna email Asus about this bad idea of tying all CHA Fans in hardware ( it seems) :evil:

Suspect
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Post by Suspect » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:45 pm

Sorry to bump an old thread, but if you can't find a 4-pin 92mm fan thats under 20 bucks, you might as well get the Scythe Katana, or the Katana 775 version for 20 bucks from newegg, I've got one and the 92mm fan has a 4 pin adapter, and the fan is nearly silent with the Intel fan speed control.

NeilBlanchard
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Welcome to SPCR!

Post by NeilBlanchard » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:55 pm

Hello & welcome to SPCR,

21 days is not an old thread! 21 months...maybe that's old. :P

There have been a few threads on these fans -- aren't they the same ones that often come in Dell's?

Suspect
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Post by Suspect » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:24 pm

I'm not sure about what fans are in Dells, never owned one myself, but I think the fan could be a ADDA fan, since my Scythe Infinity has a 12cm ADDA fan.

Operandi
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Post by Operandi » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:43 pm

This might be a bit too late for the OP but anyone else with a Zalman 7000 may find it useful to know you can purchase the 92mm PWM fan from the Zalman 9500AT as a replacement part.

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/za92refanfor.html

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