Suggestions on mATX board

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Nino_fs
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Suggestions on mATX board

Post by Nino_fs » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:19 am

I am looking for a mATX board for a Core Duo system I plan to build. I plan to put in a good video card (probably 7600+ series or ati equivalent) and then upgrade to a directX 10 card when the prices drop to something reasonable and they produce some decent budget cards. I will only run one small(160gb) hd and a single DVD RW drive. These are the only components I plan to put in the board so as long as it has a PCI express slot I am fine and it does not matter what might get blocked by the cooler on the VGA.

The other thing I want to do is overclock a 6300 by a small amount as people can commonly overclock this chip by 25% without raising the voltage and using the stock cooler.(for example of the overclockability see http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/18/ ... page3.html) But I am having problems find a board which has some decent controls for overclocking. The two boards which are looking the best to me are
ASUS P5B-VM
Gigabyte GA-965GM-S2

Looking through the ASUS forum there have been some posts about not having any control over the ram voltage and settings beyond the multiplier which is giving overclockers a headache. But Apparently that can be fixed with bios updates. I was hoping for some similar reports on the Gigabyte board but can't find anything. Does anyone have experience with this board and have any idea of how good it is?
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Spare Tire
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Post by Spare Tire » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:37 pm

I don't know about other boards but i wouldn't go with the asus P5B-VM. Lousy overclocking and overpriced. Has problem resuming from standby and And then there are these problems that i don't know if it's because i didn't setup the bios right but USB devices don't turn off when you turn off the computer and SATA is not hot swapable.

Natronomonas
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Post by Natronomonas » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:10 pm

Look at maybe the asus p5l-vm or mx.

Pair it with a e4300 (which is within a few% of the 6300 at stock) and then up the FSB to 266/1066 (compared to e4300 stock of 200/800) for a 2.4ghz CPU.

Then maybe you can clock it up a bit extra - although you'll probably top out at ~300 or so FSB, as no current C2D capable mATX board has PCI-e locks.

See http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=900405 for some other OK mATX boards.

Nino_fs
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Post by Nino_fs » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:26 pm

Thanks for all the input. After considering all this I think I might just go with a mid tower PC so that I can use a full ATX board and get a good one. The shoebox SFF cases don't end up saving that much space and they are wider than a normal case.
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wdekler
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Post by wdekler » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:34 pm

Natronomonas wrote:Look at maybe the asus p5l-vm or mx.
Then maybe you can clock it up a bit extra - although you'll probably top out at ~300 or so FSB, as no current C2D capable mATX board has PCI-e locks.

The Asrock ConRoe945G-DVI spec state: "Untied Overclocking : During Overclocking, FSB enjoys better margin due to fixed PCIE/ PCI Buses"

So this mATX board can lock the PCI-e bus when overclocking.... ?

OCworkbench has a review: http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/asrock/ ... VI/b11.htm

Only (very) basic overclock options but you can run the FSB at up to 299 which can be interesting with the new E4300.

It's cheap too :D

ronnylov
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Post by ronnylov » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:09 am

wdekler wrote:
Natronomonas wrote:Look at maybe the asus p5l-vm or mx.
Then maybe you can clock it up a bit extra - although you'll probably top out at ~300 or so FSB, as no current C2D capable mATX board has PCI-e locks.

The Asrock ConRoe945G-DVI spec state: "Untied Overclocking : During Overclocking, FSB enjoys better margin due to fixed PCIE/ PCI Buses"

So this mATX board can lock the PCI-e bus when overclocking.... ?

OCworkbench has a review: http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/asrock/ ... VI/b11.htm

Only (very) basic overclock options but you can run the FSB at up to 299 which can be interesting with the new E4300.

It's cheap too :D
The combination Asrock ConRoe945G-DVI and Intel E4300 does not seem to overclock very well. The CPU is recognized by the motherboard as a 200 MHz fsb CPU and then it will not work above 224 MHz. I found this information here:
http://forums.ocworkbench.com/bbs/asroc ... 58373.html

You may solve it by pin-modding to force it to 266 MHz but that is a bit risky to do.

MC FLMJIG
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Post by MC FLMJIG » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:40 am

MATX en Intel (OC) = NO-GO.

If you can wait a bit. ABIT is releasing new mobos and rumor is they may OC well. They have a new one, IP95, but I won't suggest as it is an old chipset. ABIT - Reclaim- I believe them.

The problem with INTEL OC is the chipset. None good is available.
Last edited by MC FLMJIG on Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
[b]SILENT OCer[/b]

wdekler
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Post by wdekler » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:41 am

The combination Asrock ConRoe945G-DVI and Intel E4300 does not seem to overclock very well. The CPU is recognized by the motherboard as a 200 MHz fsb CPU and then it will not work above 224 MHz. I found this information here:
http://forums.ocworkbench.com/bbs/asroc ... 58373.html

You may solve it by pin-modding to force it to 266 MHz but that is a bit risky to do.
Thanks for the info... that's bad news. I was hoping that the more expensive P5LD2-VM would be a better choice but the same thread mentions that it is a limitation of the 945 chipset.

The Hardforum link (earlier in this thread) mentions that this Asus board is a good choice... From this thread:
Concerning the P5LD2 VM DH rev2.0: here's my input
Overclocking Options:
√ = FSB up to 400
√ = vCORE up to 1.7
√ = Mult.( for x6800)
√ = vChipset/vHTT (vMCH)
√ = vDIMM up to 1.90
√ = FSB/PCI Locks but limited PCI-E lock ( *)
√ = DRAM Timings

*: FSB up to @289 no issue (pcie locked @100)
fsb between 290-300 : no boot (whatever pcie settings)
fsb@302 needs pcie@103
fsb@333 needs pcie@112
fsb@350 needs pcie@120
Although this info from the same thread is less favourable about the same board:
Sounds like a non functioning PCI-E lock. Try setting the PCI-E frequency to auto if not already set there. If it's like most of the 915P chipset boards, the SATA might not work when overclocked either. Could also be the problem. I had exactly the same problem with a 530J that did 3.8 on stock volts in a P5P800 but when I put it in my DFI LanParty 915P-T12 it hit 220fsb and that was it. Moved my os to an IDE hard drive on the same channel as my optical drive (yuk!) and there I was at 255 fsb again. It is like an invisible wall that no amount of voltage would break.
I hope that the 2.0 hardware version solves this problem which seems to be the same as with the Asrock board. But I fear that this won't be the case.

Natronomonas
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Post by Natronomonas » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:30 pm

OK I can confirm that I was overly optimistic in my earlier post.

I got the e4300/ p5l-vm combo, and there is no pci-e/PCI lock, and setting to 266 does not reset the lock.
So the board maxes out about 240fsb (120pci-e).
I'm now attempting a pin mod to get the e4300 to boot at 266 default fsb, as the CPU was error-free until going over 240, at which there is no POST.
It's a pity mATX boards aren't as capable as ATX, good things are -meant- to come in small packages, right?!

MC FLMJIG
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Post by MC FLMJIG » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:20 pm

[b]SILENT OCer[/b]

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:58 am

MATX boards are less apt to be aimed at overclocking,but if you want silent + stable-you may want to be moderate on the OC anyhow.

If I was about to buy a mobo-I'd go to New Egg and look at the user reviews. I'd be looking for one with at least 20 reviews and a pretty high % of happy campers....that narrows it down. Read the reviews and see what's there. Often you find that there are issues that pop up,and sometimes the remedy is there. You may learn a certain RAM works and another does not. Some mobos are fussy about SATA or Raid,some easy,some have a tendancy to die young or act up. Some are low fuss with rare exceptions.

Often you want to update drivers and bios right away. You can get feedback from sometimes 100 users on some popular items. They installed the thing,use it over time. Some website may take a pre-tested sample,overclock it,benchmark it and that's it,it ran a couple of hours in the hands of a pro.

jessekopelman
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Asrock ConRoe945G-DVI

Post by jessekopelman » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:03 am

I have an Asrock ConRoe945G-DVI and use it to run a E6300 overclocked to 2.1 GHz (305 MHz FSB). The trick? Do not lock the PCI bus to 100 MHz, but instead to 110 MHz. I have heard of people getting up to 350 MHz FSB using this tactic. I only put in 533 MHz DDR2 and that seems to be the thing keeping me from stability at over 305 FSB (I could boot and run programs at 325 FSB but Prime95 would return errors after a few minutes). The higher PCI setting might also be a fix for the E4300, but that is pure conjecture on my part. Now is 110 MHz PCI safe for your cards? I've heard mixed opinions. The only card I use is Asrock's ADD2 card that goes in the X16 slot and gives you a DVI output from the onboard GMA950. Another question, do you really need OC and discrete video? Applications that require 3D acceleration tend work fine on any dual core at stock clock. Applications that are CPU intensive tend not to require 3D acceleration. Obviously there are exceptions like serious 3D modeling (for CAD, movie making, or game development), but I mean really :roll: If I had acceleration for my primary applications (gaming, MPEG2, etc.) from cards, I'd be thinking undervolting to help keep things cool and quiet, not overclocking.

MC FLMJIG
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Post by MC FLMJIG » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:00 am

I would not look at NEwegg reviews. Way over half the people there have NO clue what they're doing.

On AMD there have been various boards that were good OCers.

On 939 there were a few good MATX OCing boards. On AM2 there are 2 very good ones that I know of and another 2 so so ones.

The only problem has been on the Intel front. Haven't heard of a great OCer.
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Ethyriel
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Post by Ethyriel » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:13 pm

The only problem I had resuming from standby on the Asus was that ACPI 2.0 was disabled by default. Once I enabled that standby works fine. I haven't tried overclocking, but the BIOS doesn't look particularly versatile. I don't think most of these MATX boards based on the v965 will be. If you really want to overclock you're generally better off going ATX, but the Asus should be able to handle minimal overclocking like you're talking about.

I really think your thoughts on going ATX are best, and a case like the Lian-Li A05 would treat you well. Really, it's not much bigger than your typical MATX mini tower, and you shouldn't be overclocking much in something like the SG-01 anyway.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:02 pm

You are talking MILD overclock. You will find a lot of boards can do that,you don't need the king of the overclock boards---especially if it's gonna be lots of hassles,issues,higher chance of sudden death etc.

Overclock sites are like going to the dragstrip to decide whether a Ford or Chevy is better for your commute car.

Go to Newegg and check the user reviews..narrow it down. Often there's stuff where a cross section of 30...60...200 people share their experiance using the item everyday in real life. You spot tendencies....a lot of DOA's, a need to flash the bios cause it shipped with a crap bios,some fuss about RAM,some won't OC a lot-will do what you need---but are damn stable and get a great ratio of good reviews.

If you want to go for the max OC,likely you want a high end,full size DFI or ASUS,but if you want a mild OC,minimum hassles,MATX,check out Gigabyte,ECS.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

My point is that a lot of us are not experts at overclocking-want cool-quiet,want cost effective and reliable. I do not put all my faith in any one comment,I want to see the pitfalls,the solutions,I'd LIKE to get a mobo that an idiot was able to get up and running without going bonkers.

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