Tech TV's "silent pc" project YS-2

The forum for non-component-related silent pc discussions.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Post Reply
MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Tech TV's "silent pc" project YS-2

Post by MikeC » Mon Mar 31, 2003 2:25 am

A fellow named Doug asked me,
I do not know why you folks have not posted a link to the article on techtv's site, about Yoshi's silent pc project .... he measured it at 8db above 100hz, and 14db below 100hz! Now, that is quite! Go check it out, if you have not heard about it yet... very interesting...
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/howt ... 28,00.html

I had seen it. It's also a video, as things at TechTV generally are. Yoshi applies massive amounts of mediocre damping to a Lian-Li PC6070 case (shown in recommended cases, page 2), noise baffles for fan vents, and uses Vantec fans and 3-fan PSU with fantmates(?) to quiet what appears to be a P4 system.

In the end, he claims to MEASURE the noise in some kind of "quiet room" at Dolby Labs that he says has a background noise of 0-5 dB. Not dBA. With a "Larson Davis 824 sound-level meter" he claims readings of 8 dB above 120 Hz and 14 dB below 100Hz. He says it is completely inaudible at 3'.

Forgive my skepticism if it is misplaced, but the measurements don't add up for me, and the sketchiness of the project as he tells it is more annoying than enlightening. He says, for example, that he used Dynamat, Paxmate and "as many layers of Melamine foam as I could fit." What thickness? Profile? where? how? :roll:

1) a meter than can measure down to such levels is unbelievably expensive. The manufacturer actually does not seem to specify how low a noise level it can measure down to. In the video, Yoshi mentions something incredible like the meter being able to go down to -30 dB. The rep from B&K told me I'd have to spend at least $20,000 to get to 10 dBA. -30 DB???
2) a room with that low a background noise, 5 dB!, deserves much more than a passing mention as a "quiet room".
3) no details are given of real measuring conditions -- ie, distance, actual weighting scale used.
4) he does not provide complete details of his system -- not even whether wha kind of CPU it is and what speed it runs at.
5) The drive used is a Seagate Barracuda V mounted normally. Without decoupling, the drive will cause low frequency noise that is guaranteed to go right through all the damping. I can hear a a normally mounted Barracuda from 6 feet away without any problem in my room.

It's not that I think his PC is not quiet. He has layered on solution after solution to get to his quiet level. But to measure such a machine -- down to 8 dB!!? -- is so challenging a feat that I have a hard time believing someone with such sloppy language/description of the acoustics tasks could have done it correctly.

To me, the most interesting thing about this article is that someone could go so far to achieve silence in a PC and then write an article that does so little justice to that achievement.

But it probably comes with the medium -- it is TV, after all. Let's face it -- it is a commercial site designed for a middle of the road consumer audience. Still, it's interesting to see the concept of quiet computing being promoted. I am interested to see what SPCR members think of it.

Riffer
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:14 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Riffer » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:53 am

Unless I missed them, I didn't see any temperature readings.

Anyone can make a silent box if they don't have to worry about temperatures.

Ralf Hutter
SPCR Reviewer
Posts: 8636
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:33 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Post by Ralf Hutter » Mon Mar 31, 2003 4:02 am

I read the article a couple of days ago and, while his heart seems to be in the right place, there are too many odd things about his procedures that I just didn't take it seriously enough to bother linking it here at SPCR. It's kind of a step below what's going on here at SPCR. Come on, Vantec case fans and a Vantec PSU with three fans? There's no way this stuff is at 8dB, even with all that (relatively useless) damping material he's got crammed in there. Not a word about temps either. I'll bet it's toasty in there with all that insulation. I just filed this under "nice try by uninformed Media Outlet" and forgot about it until now.

ez2remember
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 5:07 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by ez2remember » Mon Mar 31, 2003 5:48 am

Those claims are impossible, even with a passive computer, it will probably be louder than 8dB. :D A quiet room such as an anechoic chamber is said to be about 10-15dBA from what I read, then your computer has to be considerably lower to get a accurate reading. :D

If we claim the dB rating is true, I think some people at this site has 1dB computers. LOL :D I think some here are well surpassed his noise level rating. :wink:

mynci
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:08 am
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post by mynci » Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:59 pm

you have obviously taken this one apart already. however i did notice that there was a mobo chipset cooler left on in the final photos. now unless im very much mistaken, unless he put some sort of rear sound absorbtion (assuming the stuff he has works very very well) would that fan not be clearly audible above the hdd, psu and passing trains?
sorry if this drags up anger in people again, but it annoyed me.

mynci

Cyrix
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:07 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Post by Cyrix » Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:24 pm

Oh come on guys, with a name like Yoshi how can you go wrong? LOL!

falke
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:42 am
Location: Canada

Post by falke » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:55 pm

I may be able to shed some light on the subject or confuse it. I saw the episode with Yoshi's silent PC, the online article does not mention everything.

He said he tested it in Dolby Labs sound chamber, three engineers were in the room with him and they found it hard to hear anything.

The interesting thing shown on the show at the very end is a box he made to fit over the power supply and case fan outtake- basically a muffler. The inside of the box was lined with acoustical padding with some baffles to absorb sound as air passed through.

Cyrix
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:07 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Post by Cyrix » Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:10 pm

There is a site that is dedicated to muffled computing and even sells mufflers for your PC(www.muffledcomputing.com). I think the intake one if you have a full tower might possibly be worth it if your extreme, although MikeC would be able to answer that better then me.
The Exaust Muffler on a PC looks too bulky and for most people wouldn't be accomidating to most PC arrangements. Possibly some insight or previous reference on mufflers if possible Mike? I would assume they would cut down on turbulance which is the noise we hear from fans if I'm correct. How well these things work is subject to review.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:10 pm

I saw the episode with Yoshi's silent PC, the online article does not mention everything.
The video clip online seems to go the whole show.

falke
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:42 am
Location: Canada

Post by falke » Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:45 am

MikeC wrote: The video clip online seems to go the whole show.
I stand corrected.

Asmordean
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:12 pm
Location: Calgary - Canada

Post by Asmordean » Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:01 pm

I am willing to place a bet that my PC is a lot quieter than his is and runs at normal tempatures. I know that my PC probably sounds like a tornado compared to some people here.

The shear number of fans in that thing has me skeptical. I have two fans in my entire PC and one 120mm only runs at 3v to keep my water below 31°C. They other 80mm runs at 7v to keep the PSU from burning up. What does his have? 5 fans. Not to mention the lovely smell of Dynamat.

morganw
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Tech TV's "silent pc" project YS-2

Post by morganw » Thu May 08, 2003 6:01 pm

MikeC wrote:With a "Larson Davis 824 sound-level meter" he claims readings of 8 dB above 120 Hz and 14 dB below 100Hz.
http://www.larsondavis.com/docs/824-6pgBrochure.pdf

Noise floor on that meter is "<16dBA" which is good, but sure isn't -30dB.

Besides that, the clip seemed kind of neat (for mainstream), though I wish they'd used a SmartDrive or at least elastomer mounts and an off the shelf quiet power supply instead of some "secret mods" that had the other guy cringing over liability. Oh, and a DigitalDoc 5 for measuring temps.

Just goes to show how valuable this site is for proven quieting techniques (I'm glad I haven't shelled out $$$ for foam before reading the review here).

---

How quiet are really good anechoic chambers?

Why is the threshhold of hearing specified so low (the pressure that's called 0dBSPL) if it's never encountered, even in artificial environments? How do we know the ear/brain can sense such a tiny perturbation if we can't get the air that still in the first place?

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu May 08, 2003 7:02 pm

Why is the threshhold of hearing specified so low (the pressure that's called 0dBSPL) if it's never encountered, even in artificial environments? How do we know the ear/brain can sense such a tiny perturbation if we can't get the air that still in the first place?
The acoustic energy level defined as 0dBSPL was chosen specifically because it is at the level where most people cannot perceive any noise. It does not mean that this level is inaudible all the time to everyone. You can actually hear noise levels below 0. It is a reference point, but still a point on a continuum.

Post Reply