Designing the "perfect" case

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:28 pm

Does anyone know what it would take to get a custom case manufactured? I have access to and a bit of experience with Pro/Engineer (3D cad package). I was thinking that I could design the "perfect" case and perhaps see about getting it manufactured.

I use the term "perfect" quite liberally, since there is no single best case---it's all highly subjective. But I'm hoping that we can generate a list of "must have" features.

Some standard features:

* 120 mm fans, front and back
* Fan holes guarded by fan grill (as opposed to stamped sheet metal (removable, of course, for absolutely unrestricted airflow
* Included reducer hardware to use other size fans (i.e. 80 mm and 92 mm)
* 1.0 mm steel construction (note this is highly subjective---I'm obsessed with quality, so I prefer bomb shelter-like construction to lightweight and/or portability)
* Many different front bezel options (to suit tastes/aesthetics/etc, e.g. with/without doors, different colors, shapes, ...)
* Evercase 4252-style side-intakes for the front fan
* Top and side filtered holes for adding additional fans and/or creating ducts (e.g. for GPU, CPU, PSU)
* ...other suggestions???

I started looking at my Antec 3700AMB, and there's a lot of little bends and attachment points and rivets and so on! A computer case is conceptually simple, but the design is really fairly intricate.

If I manage to get this designed, I'll post it when I'm done.

Thanks!

Graphite · Post by **Graphite** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:36 pm

good luck

take the ideas to machine shops around your area.....see if they are capable of such a quest.

i lookedinto it. I have tons of welding experience behind me...but it's not worth it. Could spend 80$ on a pre-built case and mod the piss out of it to make it almost perfect.

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:08 pm

I'm thinking this would be VERY expensive. Like thousands of dollars expensive.

Atmos · Post by **Atmos** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:53 am

If you are considering designing a case frome scratch perhaps it would be better to consider different materials other than metal sheet which seems to have all the wrong characteristics for a silent case. Even the chassis and drive trays should be made of something more suitable.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:17 am

I'm into scratch building cases, and I don't think there's anything remotely close to a "perfect" case. Depending on the components, the goals, and the environment the features which are desirable could be wildly different.

Since this is SPCR, I'll assume one of the primary goals is reducing noise. But the way to do this is completely different if the components are noisy vs if the components are silent. If noisy components are used, the best solution is a single fan option with a "snaking" air path and only two openings to muffle the components. If silent components are used, the best solution is a "chimney" tube with huge openings in the bottom and top to maximize convective airflow.

More commonly, the hard drive and PSU are quiet--but not silent, while the motherboard can be completely stripped of fans (no CPU, GPU, or chipset fan). For this, my proposed "perfect" case would be:

Code: Select all

|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   <-- exhaust air filter, grill
|     DVDROM     |   <-- 5.25" bay
|  ____________  |
|   CPU  [ [ [   |   <-- upside-down motherboard
|   | |  [ [ [   |
|___| |__||______|   <-- two exhaust ducts
|                |
|_____________   |
|                |
|     HD         |
|_PSU____________|   <-- PSU and 120mm fan push air
|                |
|_____________   |
|                |
|                |
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   <-- intake air filter
 V              V    <-- legs to raise above floor

This is a front view cross section. The main structure is a box, with open top and bottom. This box is sectioned by 4 decks, each of which features holes to let air through. Going from bottom to top, the layers are:

1. Intake air filter
2. Bottom deck provides noise muffling.
3. PSU deck, uses the PSU and another 120mm fan to push air.
4. HD deck, the HD is suspended near the 120mm fan
5. Upper deck, has two exhaust ducts. One goes all the way to the CPU heatsink. The other is aimed at the GPU.
6. Motherboard is mounted on a frame so air "spills" around all sides.
7. Exhaust air filter, grill (important for cat compatability)

All of the decks are made of thick wood with sound absorbing materials layered on all internal surfaces. Additional
sound muffling bulkheads may be used to further muffle the
noise from the fan, PSU, and HD.

This "perfect case" would be a bit bulky--about the size of two minitowers side-by-side. However, I think it would represent the ideal combination of silence and cooling, using typical SPCR components.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:32 am

IsaacKuo -- Interesting concept. I have a design idea similar to yours, but with a major difference: There are very few or no folds in the in/out exhaust paths. I learned from firsthand experience in designing & building a "soundproof cabinet" for the PC that low airflow fans cannot pull/push air any significant distance through folded tunnels.

The fanless Mac G3 Cube is probably the best manufactured example of chimney/convection cooling in PCs, and it is worth studying. Ditto this SPCR thread about a convection chimney tower: Tower of Cooling Power.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:21 am

I think the key to getting successful airflow around folded paths is for the paths to be BIG in minimized cross section. In this case, the decks are roughly 18x18 inches. The hole to the right side of decks #2 and #4 would be maybe 2 inches wide, for 2x18=36 square inches. The total area of 2 120mm circles is 35 square inches, so this should be a good match for the fan+PSU.

The main bottleneck is the CPU/GPU ducts. The CPU duct might squeeze airflow into an 80mm square, or about 10 square inches. The GPU duct should be smaller--maybe 3 square inches--so as not to starve the CPU of airflow. I think the air resistance of this 13 square inch bottleneck would dominate over any air resistance from the 36 square inch muffling pathways.

My apologies to metric minded folk out there...sorry for my backwards thinking of my backwards country.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:27 am

IsaacKuo wrote:I think the key to getting successful airflow around folded paths is for the paths to be BIG in minimized cross section.

Only one way to find out for sure: Build it and experiment. And then write it up as an article for SPCR.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:47 am

Yeah, that's absolutely true. I had a cool idea on how to silence/cool a hard drive last week...but that was crazy enough that I decided to try it first before posting about it (it failed).

Thinking about this "perfect case" has really got my juices going again--but my only suitable motherboard already has a Scythe Heatlane Zen on it. I'll be boxing up that computer this weekend, probably and will post pictures of it. Maybe even write an article. However, the case for that computer will be more of a pseudo-SFF compact design (about as compact as you can get and still cram a Heatlane Zen in it).

Hmm...I don't actually need a working computer to experiment with the sound/airflow. I've got a spare AT power supplies just lying around...all I really need is to hook that up to a hard drive...

zak · Post by **zak** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:27 am

I think that for a silent case you'd want to use a lot of plastic, dead sounding plastic at that.

As for a fan guard instead of a stamped grill: this may be a problem with EMC, as a grill has fairly large openings. That can be changed of course, and a mesh of round wire clamped to the case might be good enough on both counts.

One thing is that I'd like to have the fans in the middle of the case. There will obviously always components in the way, but the added turbulence inside, and the opportunities fr damping the fan noise may make it worthwhile.

Thomas

pdf27 · Post by **pdf27** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:37 am

If you're planning to build it of metal, I would suggest finding a machine shop with a water cutter near you. They can cut steel sheet to CAD designs (usually straight from file), and the set-up costs will be minimal.
I'm not sure what the actual costs are likely to be, but I would suspect they won't be too bad. Unfortunately my only experience is friends using the university water cutter to get things made up.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:29 pm

Well my take on this subject is somewhat different from the direction of this thread.....Since for all practical purposes, we are forced to use available internal components, the tower type case (standing up or laying on it's side) seems to be the best choice. And there are thousands of models to chose from.

Pick the best case you can find....then modify the inside of the thing to suit yourself. That can be done without too much expense, and by most anyone with modest finances, and limited/no manufacturing skills. There are plenty of untried setups.....maybe you can realistically come up with your own perfect computer.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:17 pm

You know, Bluefront, I often wonder why you don't scratch build cases. With the extent and scope of your modifications, you obviously have the skill, experience, and knowledge to make some slick scratch built cases pretty easily.

Personally, I see almost no merit in the typical tower type case. There's just an insane amount of wasted space if you only have one hard drive and one optical drive, and airflow to them is relatively poor (especially the optical drive). Then there are the expansion cards, although more modern computers may have just one card. I've discovered to my delight how dead simple it is to remove the rear faceplate to them, which opens up some interesting air path possibilities (like placing a motherboard with the ports facing straight up, so that the cards and motherboard are all vertical in a chimney tube).

I dunno...whenever I think about case layouts I never end up with the PSU next to the CPU. It just never seems to make sense.

m_yates · Post by **m_yates** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:54 pm

Well, I have no experience modifying cases, but I have been reading forums here and reading other stuff online. For the last couple of weeks I have been thinking about building a case/cabinet that would be muffled and silent. A couple of things are needed I think:

1. The case would have to be airtight other than one inlet and one outlet for airflow. That means a sealed door to access optical drives, or else putting the optical drive in an external USB enclosure. Building an air-tight door would require something like a magnetic refrigerator gasket or weatherstripping. With my handy skills, it will probably look like a bunch of items collected from the Home Depot dumpster. Any ideas on making air tight doors? Of course, there is also the problem of accessing the motherboard, and providing a relatively air tight outlet for cables. My idea isn't well thought out yet.

2. The inlet and outlet opening for airflow would have to be muffled. That means a tortuous air path. As MikeC pointed out above, muffling will reduce airflow. However, I think if you provide a big minimum cross section as suggested above, it would be doable. I was also thinking that two 120 mm fans located side-by-side would provide a lot of air, but the case/cabinet would have to be wide.

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:09 pm

2. The inlet and outlet opening for airflow would have to be muffled. That means a tortuous air path. As MikeC pointed out above, muffling will reduce airflow. However, I think if you provide a big minimum cross section as suggested above, it would be doable. I was also thinking that two 120 mm fans located side-by-side would provide a lot of air, but the case/cabinet would have to be wide.

The trick is to use components that don't need muffling. IE, components that are truly quiet to begin with. Why even bother with anything else?

In my experience, there is something odd and annoying about a noisy component (say a HDD) that is muffled to be quieter... compared to a naturally quiet component that's totally unmuffled. Sometimes even if the former is quieter than the latter. It's a pyschoacoustic thing. Anyone else experience that?

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:46 pm

why don't we just watercool and not have to worry about the placement of various things?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:22 am

The one big problem with MikeC's suggestion is it forces people in search of a quieter computer to buy all new components.....at great expence. And even if you followed "reccomended" lists of parts, you'd probably never be satisfied. The day after you finished, a quieter gizmo would appear. I prefer a DIY quieting approach.

And concerning water-cooling.....What happens when you cut a hole in your roof? It's guaranteed.

Then what happens when you fill your computer with pumps, hoses, clamps, water blocks, etc.? It's also guaranteed, and also costs a lot to fix.

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:30 am

very true

i actually had a leak a few days ago, my leaky swiftech mcw5002 decided to deposit a few drops of coolant onto my radeon 9800. only found out because i decided to take a look at it

cleaned it up and was as fine as usual

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:20 am

Bluefront wrote:The one big problem with MikeC's suggestion is it forces people in search of a quieter computer to buy all new components.....at great expence. And even if you followed "reccomended" lists of parts, you'd probably never be satisfied. The day after you finished, a quieter gizmo would appear. I prefer a DIY quieting approach.

Hardly.

This is such a gross misinterpretation of my comment, I don't even know where to begin!

It makes me wonder what the reason is for such defensiveness?

First of all, who'd want to start off with noisy components in a custom-built/designed case??

There are only 2 sources of noise in a PC: Fans and HDDs. Quiet fans and HDDs are generally no more expensive than noisy ones; both need a little furtther work to get them silent -- undervolting, damped mounting...

It's just a whole lot smarter to start with a Panaflo or Nexus fan rather than a Delta, and a Samsung HDD rather than a WD. Choosing to start with quieter components is not somehow less DIY. You don't make your own HDDs or fans, do you?? Anyone reading or following this thread is thinking of nothing BUT a DIY approach!

My ghettoistic external PSU PCis simple proof that with the right combination of components in the right config, you hardly need to enclose them to get great thermal/noise qualities. AT 20~21 dBA/1m, it remains inaudible under my desk despite huge gaping holes in the case for noise to escape -- because there is so little noise to begin with.

Oh, and the desire to for silence does not equate massive compulsive consumerism. Certainly not for me. I have no burning desire to change any of the components in the PC above with quieter notebook drives, or quieter Nexus fans: It is inaudible in normal usage. I don't care if it never gets any quieter.

m_yates · Post by **m_yates** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:54 am

I don't care if it never gets any quieter.

So there is an end to this madness?

r2fugu · Post by **r2fugu** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:38 am

I have to agree with MikeC. Although I thoroughly enjoy modding a case, in the end it really comes down to the components in it.

Back on subject; I think if one were to get a case manufacutred, it should be for mass production purposes. If it's just for yourself, buy the closest thing (I say thing because it doesn't have to be a case) to what you want and then mod it. But if you were to produce something for mass market I'd do this:

First let me tell a little story - When I bought and modded my own case, I noticed that the right side panel had no vents on it, while the left had vents. I wanted no vents on both side panels. I quickly learded that the right side panel could fit on the left side by simply flipping it. I then began a search for where I could buy one side panel from the manufacturer. I couldn't. So I ended up just covering the vents. What's the point of this story?

Why not create a case that is modular. One that will let the user configure it him/herself. So the user buys the "skeleton" and then skins it with a choice of many multiple parts. For example, there would be like 20 different side panels to choose from. Same with the front panel. Different drive mounts to choose from. Ones that mount vertically or horizontally. Simply bolt in the one you want. The options go on and on goes on and on.. Think of how much fun that would be.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:55 am

If you want an off-the-shelf modular case, take a look at Lego blocks!

Anyway, I agree that choosing the right components is key for a new build, but then there's also little sense in wasting "free" components. Some of us acquire used components from friends or even the side of the road. A 333mhz Celeron is powerful enough to make a useful home theatre PC or a lightweight office workstation. Sometimes you can scrape together a slot 1 system for less than a single DIMM stick of modern RAM!

For this sort of system, it makes more sense to work with the components you got rather than buy quiet alternatives. And yes, I'd put one of these in a custom case. Of course, the custom case I put it in cost me $6 in materials, but still...

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:10 am

Did someone say.. lego PC?

http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/lego0933/?page=2

edcrane · Post by **edcrane** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:45 am

Well, I think I get where bluefront's coming from. The two cases where I think muffling can be thought to be crucial are 1) when performance/other attributes trump the value of an individual components silent alternative (For example, I love the heat dissipation characteristics of the 9600, but there's no way I could bring myself to trade in my 9700 pro for one), 2) when dealing with legacy products that were purchased before silence became a personal/consumer issue.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:03 pm

I do think the perfect (almost) case is out there waiting to be built. Of course it won't be perfect for everyone, but it's there. And it's going to take some original thinking to pull it off. Maybe a major case manufacturer will do it, but I doubt it. They have distinct rules to follow....I still don't think silence is very high on the list. It certainly comes behind looks, and ease of manufacture.

That's why I prefer DIY solutions to bought solutions. And if a person keeps trying to perfect something, he just might succeed. Many people have, and many have made fortunes from it.

As far as me personally.....I come to this website to try to benefit from ideas of other people, and maybe to add a few of my own to the mix. Sure, finding out about specific info about hardware is useful, but it's ideas that drive me, that keep me trying to build a "perfect" computer.

Gxcad · Post by **Gxcad** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:48 pm

matt_garman wrote: * Included reducer hardware to use other size fans (i.e. 80 mm and 92 mm)
* 1.0 mm steel construction (note this is highly subjective---I'm obsessed with quality, so I prefer bomb shelter-like construction to lightweight and/or portability)
* Many different front bezel options (to suit tastes/aesthetics/etc, e.g. with/without doors, different colors, shapes, ...)
* Evercase 4252-style side-intakes for the front fan

Agreed on the flexibility of size of fans, but on the intake, I actually think I prefer the amb and bqe style vents. The reason is they face DOWN instead of to the side. I happen to have a setup where a side intake would leak noise at me, so IMO this is also an area where flexibility would be nice.

-Ken

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:36 pm

maybe you can have some thing on the front like the ones they have on cars, the adjustable rotatable circular vane things? like this one from the mazda rx8: (i know lots of other cars have this too)

Post by **Rusty075** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:27 pm

I used several of these: Midget Louvers on my "custom case"

PretzelB · Post by **PretzelB** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:30 am

As far as concepts for a perfect case, here are some of my thoughts:

1) Removable panels on both sides - it's obvious until you get a case without a removable right side panel.
2) Bottom intake - I think Bluefront started an approach that should be expanded
3) Separate vertical compartments - split the case vertically into two or three (or more) parts and put heat generating components into their own area. Maybe the psu and drives go in the front part and the mb, cpu and graphics card go in the back. It would make a long case though.
4) Use chimney affect - pull air in the bottom and vent out the top.
5) All io ports on front - this is a pain that has yet to be done perfectly imho (i hate those audio ports that only support mb audio connectors - what's wrong with mini-jacks)
6) Hinges on front and maybe even top panels. You can use simple a/c insulation strip foam to promote an airtight and quiet seal. Maybe use small clamps to keep the panels shut securely.
7) A pop-up handle on top. It will need to be carried from time to time.
8. Built in fan controller.
9) Only enough room for 2 5.25 devices. Another pet peeve of mine is cases that have 4 or more slots for 5.25 drives. I doubt I would even use 2 but any more than that is a bit much (especially if I have built in front io ports and fan controller)
10) One great feature I saw was a switch to pick which hard drive was going to be used. This was the ulitimate in multi-os setup. No confusing boot sector stuff, just two totally separate boot drives for each os.
11) And it should all be less than 18" tall.

That's all I can think of for now.

Cerestes · Post by **Cerestes** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:27 pm

IsaacKuo wrote:

Code: Select all

|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   <-- exhaust air filter, grill
|     DVDROM     |   <-- 5.25" bay
|  ____________  |
|   CPU  [ [ [   |   <-- upside-down motherboard
|   | |  [ [ [   |
|___| |__||______|   <-- two exhaust ducts
|                |
|_____________   |
|                |
|     HD         |
|_PSU____________|   <-- PSU and 120mm fan push air
|                |
|_____________   |
|                |
|                |
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   <-- intake air filter
 V              V    <-- legs to raise above floor

6. Motherboard is mounted on a frame so air "spills" around all sides.

Why exactly would you mount the motherboard upside down?
Heat being generated by the cpu/gpu goes up.
Then you create a channel going down a few inches, heat tries to go up. Wouldn't it make much more sense to have the heat going up off of the board and out?

Designing the "perfect" case

Designing the "perfect" case

Re: Designing the "perfect" case