Antec p182 vs antec solo

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:40 am

Which one is better for an 8800gt with Accelero S1 cooling, it seems that with the solo i'd have to set the fan at hi speed which will negate the purpose of a silent pc, whereas with the p182 having better airflow can probably be set to lower speeds, or am i wrong about that assumption. also according to a review, the solo's filter being from plastic blocks the airflow so it's better to remove it altogether, if so, isn't it a big flaw?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:13 am

Hello & welcome to SPCR,

The main difference between them is that the PSU (and some of the HD bays) are in a separate chamber in the P18x. This helps if your PSU would ramp it's fan speed up in reaction to (slightly) higher temps in the main case. It does complicate the installation IMO, and it may require the use of more fans.

In it's earliest form (the first version of the P180) there was a duct supplied to try to cool the video card, but IIRC this was the weak point of the case.

I don't think that the Solo would require any different fan speeds to cool the video card, than the P18x would, and you might even get away with fewer fans needed to get the job done.

FartingBob · Post by **FartingBob** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:29 am

I'm running a 7900GT with the S1 passively in the solo. A 1200 slipstream exhaust at 5v, another one on the CPU heatsink at 7 volts and a 7v noctua 92mm fan on the intake (bottom mount, there's space for a second). The noctua lines up very nicely with my S1 so blows cool air straight onto it. Even under synthetic load tests ive never had the GPU top 70c, well within its limits. my CPU is overclocked and still runs well within safety limits.

The solo is a very good case for airflow, it just gets overshadowed by the P182 sometimes. But the Solo can handle any system ok, theres room for a second intake fan if you really get hot.
Really you can run my system without the intake fan at all and still i find temps are all well within the limits under any condition.
I also plan on using the scythe kama bay in the optical drive slots and putting 800rpm slipstreams on that, the CPU and exhuast, all at 7v or prehaps 5v. Would provide much better airflow for the CPU and since i know my GPU can handle itself i should be able to lower the noise even further by doing this.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:23 am

The more space inside a computer enclosure, the more airflow you need to move all that air in and then out of the computer. With a smaller enclosure, you dont need as much airflow to push it through at the same rate.

So with a smaller case, you can use fewer and slower spinning fans.

Also most people dont need a fan directed at a video card with an S1 heatsink on it. They run completely passive with just case airflow pretty well. You'd have to have a real top end card to need active cooling with an S1, way beyond an 8800GT.

in all honestly, the P180 line of cases are just too big. Their really only good for overclockers. You can do everything a p180 can, easier, and better with a Solo.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:45 am

Aris wrote:The more space inside a computer enclosure, the more airflow you need to move all that air in and then out of the computer. With a smaller enclosure, you dont need as much airflow to push it through at the same rate. So with a smaller case, you can use fewer and slower spinning fans.

This seems so reasonable, I hate to point out that it's wrong.

You have a box with a heat source. The heat is removed from the box by airflow (CFM). The temperature inside the box depends on the number of CFM and heat (watts). It does not depend on the size of the box.

If the intake and output ports get smaller as the size of the box gets smaller, the number of CFM remains constant if the watts and temperature stays constant. Smaller air holes and constant CFM means the air velocity must increase.

Sorry, slower spinning fans is exactly wrong.

cb95014 · Post by **cb95014** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:47 am

I have three P180/182's and four Solos at home. We game a lot!

They are both excellent cases, but I just find it easier to get a near-silent computer with minimal twiddling in the P182. The main change is to replace the tri-cools with Scythe fans. The air filters are also *much* easier to clean, and with most BIOS now reliably supporting keyboard power-on the door is a non-issue.

For price-performance, the Solo (especially on blow-out sales at Fry's) is impossible to beat, but without price in the equation I definitely would go with the P182 unless space is a *major* problem.

Either way you really can't go wrong.

Teh Lurv · Post by **Teh Lurv** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:53 pm

FartingBob wrote:I also plan on using the scythe kama bay in the optical drive slots and putting 800rpm slipstreams on that, the CPU and exhuast, all at 7v or prehaps 5v. Would provide much better airflow for the CPU and since i know my GPU can handle itself i should be able to lower the noise even further by doing this.

I'm running a Kama Bay (with the included fan) with my Solo and the added intake brought down my CPU temps by 4C. With cable management, the airflow from the Kama Bay fan has a direct line to the CPU.

Only negatives with the Bay is that it's a PITA to install using drive rails and the bundled fan has a slight ticking noise at 12v.

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:44 am

how many fans (if any) would i need to add to a solo with 1 hard drive?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:00 pm

Hello,

In the Solo, you can (probably) just use the PSU fan and the case fan -- with a good HS on the CPU, that's all you'd need. The P182 could do the same, but you'd have to block the top fan grill.

josephclemente · Post by **josephclemente** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:13 pm

I went from a P180 to a Solo and then just recently back to a P182SE for my main system.

Originally I thought the P180 was way too big with no benefits so I moved my system to the Solo. After a long time with the Solo, I felt I did everything I could do to make it quiet except switch the PSU fan.

With my most recent PSU (M12-II 430), I switched the noisy stock fan with a 1600 RPM Scythe S-FLEX. I have the RPM sensor wire from this fan going to my motherboard so I can finally see what's going on. It started out very quiet (in the mid 400 RPM range) but the fan would ramp up after a while, even at idle. Before, I just thought my ears were getting used to the noise so it sounded louder, but now I could see the RPMs were going up as well, even though idle is under 85 watts from the wall. When running two instances of Prime95 (somewhere around 140 watts from wall), the fan would speed up further and I wasn't comfortable with how hot the air felt exiting the PSU. I tried making a duct to keep CPU air away from the PSU, but the PSU was already so close to my CPU and rear exhaust area that I didn't have much space between the two. The duct made things a little better but it still wasn't great.

So I found the P182SE on clearance at Fry's and moved my system into it. My PSU fan speed problems are solved and my system is a lot quieter. I hear less hard drive idle noise in my P182SE as well - the front door is more effective than the Solo's bezel. I didn't have to add any more fans (I have the top fan exhaust hole blocked off).

Yomat · Post by **Yomat** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:32 pm

Same dilemma for me.

cb95014 wrote:The air filters are also *much* easier to clean, and with most BIOS now reliably supporting keyboard power-on the door is a non-issue.

Why is that? Looks like filters in both are easily accessible.

Price difference around here is rather low. About the cost of one noctua 120mm. And it seems there is no type of setup that SOLO can do _better than equal_ than P182. Except maybe that SOLO might do little better front intake airflow. SOLO also have the rubberband HD suspension but the P182 lower compartment seems to solve it equally well anyway.

Then its only the size+weight issue left. Annoying, yes, but an easy sacrifice for simple silence IMHO.

One last question: I read in some thread that P182 in difference to P180 has a removable motherboard tray. I cant find any evidence of this elsewhere, however. It seems fixed.

VanWaGuy · Post by **VanWaGuy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:55 pm

Neil,

Since the hard drive in the Solo does not mount against metal which helps draw out heat, wouldn't you think it advisable to also use a front fan to keep drive(s) cool?

cb95014 · Post by **cb95014** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Yomat wrote:
cb95014 wrote:The air filters are also *much* easier to clean, and with most BIOS now reliably supporting keyboard power-on the door is a non-issue.
Why is that? Looks like filters in both are easily accessible.

Unless I am missing something (always possible...), you need to remove the side door (which requires rear access) to open the Solo front panel, *then* take the filters out. Since we keep all our computers under desks, this is a major PITA and I find we rarely clean the filters. In the P180/182, the filters are directly accessible by simply opening the front door. I have the plastic doors removed to make it even easier.

Per your other comments about pricing and value, if the delta seems small and you have the space, IMO there is no reason to pick the Solo over the P182.

Yomat wrote:One last question: I read in some thread that P182 in difference to P180 has a removable motherboard tray.

No. The tray in both the P180/182 is fixed. The key difference is that the tray is about 1 cm closer to the center of the case in the P182, which enables easy cable management behind the motherboard.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:38 pm

Greetings,

VanWaGuy wrote:Since the hard drive in the Solo does not mount against metal which helps draw out heat, wouldn't you think it advisable to also use a front fan to keep drive(s) cool?

It's air flow that cools the HD, and it is often not required in the Solo, since most of the air comes into the front and past the drive(s).

The cable management in the Solo is also quite good, using the space behind the motherboard panel, and the hooks on the backside of the HD frame.

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:04 pm

How is the 120mm case fan in the solo usually used, as an exhaust, or intake fan?

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:20 pm

Felger Carbon wrote:
Aris wrote:The more space inside a computer enclosure, the more airflow you need to move all that air in and then out of the computer. With a smaller enclosure, you dont need as much airflow to push it through at the same rate. So with a smaller case, you can use fewer and slower spinning fans.
This seems so reasonable, I hate to point out that it's wrong.

Picture it in your head, a fan at the top rear of a box, and air comming in at the bottom front. As the case gets bigger, the space at the bottom/back and top/front of the case that is not in the line of the airflow gets larger, and thus anything occupying that space doesnt get proper airflow.

The smaller the box gets, eventually you get to the point where the airflow path occupy's the entire enclosure.

This is assuming you use the same size fan for the enclosures. The smallest size box being just big enough to fit a 120mm fan at the exhaust.

So to get the same percentage of space inside a larger box to be in the path of airflow, you would need more fans. I may have said it wrong the first time, i can see how you could be thinking i was wrong.

If you really need me to, i suppose i can make a visual with MS Paint, but id really rather not.

VanWaGuy · Post by **VanWaGuy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:05 pm

Hush - exhaust. Heat naturally rises, so bringing cooler air in low and exhausting it high works with this instead of against it.

VanWaGuy · Post by **VanWaGuy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:52 pm

Aris,

I picture it a little differently. If you have x-watts going into a box, you will need y-cfm of airflow to remove the heat created.

In a bigger box, you may need to add some ducting to direct the air to where it is needed, which will increase the resistance to the airflow, which will increase the load on the fans so a little more power is required to create those y-cfms of airflow, but y-cfm will still remove x-watts worth of heat, regardless of the shape of the box.

Modo · Post by **Modo** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:05 pm

Uhm, you added to what Aris said, you didn't contradict it. Without ducting, you might not be able to remove the same wattage efficiently from a bigger case. And the culprit is exactly the described airflow problem.

VanWaGuy · Post by **VanWaGuy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:22 am

Modo, Aris said you need more airflow in a larger case, and Felger and I said that you do not.

Modo · Post by **Modo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:36 am

VanWaGuy wrote:Modo, Aris said you need more airflow in a larger case, and Felger and I said that you do not.

Yes, but these statements aren't mutually exclusive. You can both be right, depending on the circumstances: Without additional airflow control, more fans/higher rpms are required for larger cases, in order to force air into all corners. If fans/fan speeds should remain the same, a larger case will require some airflow control, i.e. ducting. Of course, there's the space in between, with some ducting and some rpm increase.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:42 am

Aris wrote: Picture it in your head, a fan at the top rear of a box, and air comming in at the bottom front. As the case gets bigger, the space at the bottom/back and top/front of the case that is not in the line of the airflow gets larger, and thus anything occupying that space doesnt get proper airflow.

The smaller the box gets, eventually you get to the point where the airflow path occupy's the entire enclosure.

I can see what you're getting at, but I've never found it to be an issue in practice... I think overall airflow in a typical PC case tends to be largely chaotic in nature, particularly at lower fan speeds, and it's mostly just a question of evacuating the calories at the same rate they're being generated (in which case the size is irrelevant as has already been said).

Some components might benefit from spot cooling or ducting, but that's a slightly different argument, and I'm not sure it's relevant to the case size as such. In fact, it's a lot easier to engineer dedicated airflow paths in a larger case, and obviously the P182 has its dual chambers which are are mainly responsible for the extra size compared with the Solo. I've assembled otherwise identical systems in a Solo and a P182, and the air flowing out of the PSU grille was noticeably cooler in the P182, with obvious implications for the point at which the PSU fan will start ramping up.

There's also another downside to very small cases - with a limited interior volume packed with components, there will be more static resistance to airflow (unless everything is very cleverly lined up just right), so the fan(s) will have to work harder to achieve the same throughput.

walle · Post by **walle** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:46 am

You could check the airflow using a lighted cigarette (no need to be a smoker), works like a charm. Of course the casing needs to be in technician mode (side panel removed), but you still get a good idea of how effective the airflow is and how it moves.

My personal preference is the Solo, think that one works the best.

Cheers

Modo · Post by **Modo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:55 am

nick705 wrote:o very small cases - with a limited interior volume packed with components, there will be more static resistance to airflow (unless everything is very cleverly lined up just right), so the fan(s) will have to work harder to achieve the same throughput.

That's true to some extent. But in most (silence-oriented

) cases, fans already have to overcome the pressure needed to squeeze air through tight vents, so I doubt the increase you speak of would be very high. On the other hand, a smaller enclosure means there is much less air to move, so it can be fully exchanged more quickly. (Not that it would apply to Solo vs P182, since the separated chambers of the P182 make the real volume similar to the Solo.)

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:36 am

In the solo what would be the quieter setup, adding 1 intake fan in the front and running both fans at low speeds, or just the 1 stock fan set at medium or high speed if necessary?

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:51 am

Modo wrote: That's true to some extent. But in most (silence-oriented ) cases, fans already have to overcome the pressure needed to squeeze air through tight vents, so I doubt the increase you speak of would be very high.

Well, no... many people go to quite some lengths to minimise the resistance fans have to deal with (chopping out grilles, modifying the P182's inner doors, removing filters etc), purely so that they can be run as slowly as possible while maintaining adequate airflow. A small and internally obstructive case (I'm talking about the SFF/Shuttle kind, not the Solo) would be likely to undo much of that good work, although I have to admit I'm really just speculating, and don't have any hands on experience with that sort of build.

Modo wrote: On the other hand, a smaller enclosure means there is much less air to move, so it can be fully exchanged more quickly. (Not that it would apply to Solo vs P182, since the separated chambers of the P182 make the real volume similar to the Solo.)

hmm... I thought we'd all agreed now that the actual volume of air to be moved doesn't make any difference...

Hush wrote: In the solo what would be the quieter setup, adding 1 intake fan in the front and running both fans at low speeds, or just the 1 stock fan set at medium or high speed if necessary?

Two low-speed fans will almost certainly be quieter, but a single Tri-Cool at medium or high (when it's far too loud for most people here) will shift a lot more air. An additional 92mm front fan is really more useful for spot cooling the HDD(s) and/or maybe the graphics card if needed, and won't contribute much if anything to the overall airflow.

Modo · Post by **Modo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:23 am

nick705 wrote: Well, no... many people go to quite some lengths to minimise the resistance fans have to deal with (chopping out grilles, modifying the P182's inner doors, removing filters etc), purely so that they can be run as slowly as possible while maintaining adequate airflow. A small and internally obstructive case (I'm talking about the SFF/Shuttle kind, not the Solo) would be likely to undo much of that good work, although I have to admit I'm really just speculating, and don't have any hands on experience with that sort of build.

Well, I do. Contrary to your speculations, this setup offers plenty of obstructions to airflow, yet every temperature stays well within safe margins.

nick705 wrote: hmm... I thought we'd all agreed now that the actual volume of air to be moved doesn't make any difference...

But it does. The more space you have, the more danger of pockets of hot air forming, and possibly damaging equipment. Note how many setups in large tower enclosures show extremely high GPU temperatures, even while idling.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:58 am

Modo wrote: Well, I do. Contrary to your speculations, this setup offers plenty of obstructions to airflow, yet every temperature stays well within safe margins.

Firstly, the Antec 2400 series is nothing like a SFF/Shuttle case of the type I meant, which I was using as an illustration against the "smaller cases are always better for cooling components" argument. Secondly, if you're seriously arguing that an NSK2400/Fusion will be more effective overall than, say, a P182 or indeed a Solo at keeping a given system cool, then I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to differ.

Modo wrote: But it does. The more space you have, the more danger of pockets of hot air forming, and possibly damaging equipment. Note how many setups in large tower enclosures show extremely high GPU temperatures, even while idling.

That's certainly not been my own personal experience, but I'm not going to endlessly argue the point, so feel free to have the last word if you're so inclined.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:06 am

Modo wrote:But it does. The more space you have, the more danger of pockets of hot air forming, and possibly damaging equipment. Note how many setups in large tower enclosures show extremely high GPU temperatures, even while idling.

This is getting ridiculus.

Perhaps some larger towers have that problem (and some smaller ones too I'm sure) but that is not really a problem due to the larger air volume. It's a question of how the tower is built.

How long it takes to "exchange all the air in the case" doesn't matter. Or is it very dangerous to test the system outside the case? Most rooms are pretty big..

edit: I have a great idea for a new product. The volume decreaserâ„¢
It's basically an empty paper box with an antistatic coating. You put it inside your case to decrease the air volume. Might be a huge success judging from some of the posts in this thread.

walle · Post by **walle** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:25 am

Vicotnik wrote:Or is it very dangerous to test the system outside the case? Most rooms are pretty big..

Unless you whish to radiate your body and use your head as an arial I would not recommend it, not for a longer period of time, thatâ€™s for sure.

Antec p182 vs antec solo

Antec p182 vs antec solo

I have several of each, and prefer the P182

Re: I have several of each, and prefer the P182

Re: I have several of each, and prefer the P182