passive but not very HOT graphics

millex · Post by **millex** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:29 pm

Hello guys. I am new here and need your help.
As you can see, my computers are quite silent, can play some of the newer games, but I donÂ´t play anymore because of time reasons. I use my rig mainly for music making (2D) and for office / internet apps (2D aswell).

IÂ´m in search for energy economical (Radeon 2400pro/xt \ Nvidia 8400gs ?) but not very hot modern card, which can handle 2 monitors in a time. As you can see (link below), my IRON mini uatx cases have got quite small volume, also I canÂ´t afford to mount any 70Â°C idling card.

http://www.modecom.pl/product.php?id=41 ... =&imageId=

I bought an passive 256MB GF8600GT from Asus, but it idles at 64Â°C in 2D and then the HDDs got too hot for everyday work sessions (Exhaust fan - cca 1000-1300rpm, CPU fan - 1000rpm, PSU exhaust fan - 1100rpm ). Also this is not the way for me, I donÂ´t need such a radiator, because my pcÂ´s have to stay silent and cool.

Can you please recommend me some concrete passive graphics, which idles at temps up to..I donÂ´t know..50Â°C? For example, my OC 7950GT from Gainward idles at 45Â°C and GF8800GTS640MB idles at 59Â°C but has its own exhaust cooling system = the heat donÂ´t concentrate itself in the case. Thank you in advance.

Modo · Post by **Modo** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:10 pm

First of all, have you tried opening (removing) a slot cover or two below the graphics card? This can often lower GPU temperatures, especially with fanless cooling. If that works, you won't need another graphics card.

Lowering the heat output would require lowering the GPU power quite a bit by either downclocking the graphics card (GPU and DRAM) or changing to something like a Radeon HD 3450. It's not a performer in games, but it will allow you to use two monitors if that's all you need. There are a number of models, with either D-Sub + DVI or double DVI output. The heatsink size and lack of fans clearly indicates temps you can expect.

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:37 pm

I've got an XFX GeForce 7600GS. PCI-express with dual DVI. It idles around 51 degrees Celsius, but that's in a fairly well-ventilated Antec P182. But I run two monitors with it. I don't know if XFX still makes it or not though; it's deactivated on newegg.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:48 pm

If the cooler doesn't expell hot air from the case and case temp is the important factor, then GPU temperature is not relevant, power consumption is.

So look at watt numbers, not deg C.

Xbit labs has reliable numbers for a lot of cards.

Greg F. · Post by **Greg F.** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:13 pm

Matt, I have the same exact card and it runs just about equal to that temperature. Nice card with good visuals. Am I permitted to say that I have one for sale in the "Deals" forum?

millex · Post by **millex** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:44 pm

thank you guys, but I mean, that we are not at the end..

to modo: the Asus 8600Gt card is 2 slot design, and I have uatx case, also unfortunately there is no free slot cover, one could remove. There sits a sound card from RME and her I/O add-bracket right below graphics.
My opinion is, that in my conditions, could I use the existing 8600GT with Accelero S1 only. Maybe. I donÂ´t have one to try right now.
Radeon 3450 could be the card for me, but does anybody have its real idle temp? Maybe Greg could write it here.

to matt_garman: thank you for your tip matt, IÂ´m considering the passive 7600GS too, because I had one even for AGP (from Leadtek) and that one could ran quite cool. XFX sells its products in cetral Europe very little, but I found this "alternative" in the internet sell-out - Asus 7600GT 256 silent.
http://www.shark.sk/Default.aspx?conten ... od_id;8039
According to this test, it idles at 56Â°C (quite acceptable) but 87Â°C under load - WTF?!

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2825&p=17

to Vicotnik: I donÂ´t understand, because the AC AF9PWM cooler DOES exhaust hot air from the case.

to Greg: if you have your 3450 passive, please be so kind and publish your temps.

thank you all.

millex · Post by **millex** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:54 pm

one more information to the theme: one week ago, IÂ´ve quieted down a musical computer of my friend. Graphics was the theme too, because his computer had GF7600GT from Inno3D with terrible noisy active cooler.

After cooler change (Accelero S2) the temp dropped from initial 57 to 50Â°C with only one exhaust fan, with absolute silence.

Maybe is the only way older GF7600GT/GS and Accelero.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:28 pm

millex wrote:to Vicotnik: I donÂ´t understand, because the AC AF9PWM cooler DOES exhaust hot air from the case.

What are you worried about? Most graphics card can handle 90C+ without problem. As long as the load temp doesn't get that high you will be ok. Idle temp is not very relevant imho.

If you are worried about the graphics card heating up the case then GPU temperature is irrelevant. Power draw = heat output. A 50W graphics card will dump 50W of heat into the case no matter if it has a small passive heatsink causing it to idle at 60C or if it has a huge passive heatsink causing it to idle at 30C.

If the graphics card has an active heatsink of the kind that dumps hot air outside the case, or if you somehow duct the hot air from the cooler somehow, then a 50W graphics card will not add 50W of heat to the case.

I just don't understand your obsession with idle temps.

millex · Post by **millex** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:10 am

to vicotnik: thank you for your explanation, I just donÂ´t want to have an radiator in my small cases. I understand now. Also under the impression of last written - whats the most suitable graphics for my usage?

What do you all mean? Maybe Radeon 3450 or the older gen - 2400pro/xt? DoesnÂ´t have Nvidia its "picker in fire" in the class of power efficient current models?

Modo · Post by **Modo** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:23 am

An 8400GS would come to mind. Most look similar in build to the Radeons I suggested.

Greg F. · Post by **Greg F.** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:05 am

Millex:
this morning I have 24.4 ambient in the room and the Asus 3450 is running at 38-39 while running HD trailers Taxi3 and Coral Reef Adventurer and the Discoverers. It idled at 33 at first, after running the trailers it continues to run at about 37. This is from PC Wizard 2008. I feel it is accurate. The case has a Nexus 92MM in the front (1592rpm) and a 120MM (900rpm) in the back. The cpu has a Ninja with Scythe blowing toward the case fan at about 700. My XFX 7600GS passive would run in the low fifties in same situation and case.

I feel that the Nvidia in my Biostar might have the better definition by the tiniest amount. I use the snow in Taxi3, the fir in the girls earmuffs, the tiles on the walls of the Alhambra in Discovers for definition. I only have a Sceptre 20 inch to determine picture quality and I know it isn't the best. I over saturated the colors in the Asus 10% to bring the colors up to my subjective preference. My friend prefers the XFX.

My experience is limited. This is not scientific and is very much IMHO and YMMV. I want to do a new build this fall with a separate video card and at this time I want Nividia. I don't know what card will run cool with good results for little money. I really haven't noticed one.
I don't game at all.

millex · Post by **millex** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:08 am

to Greg F.: hey, thank you for your post. HD3450 looks like my next card

to Modo: thank you for your tip. Can you please write here the idling temps of 8400GS?

The 8400GS is not in the energy consumption charts on this forum. Do we have this information please?

millex · Post by **millex** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:12 am

..and one more thing - do the 8400GSÂ´s know the "frenquency drop" in 2D mode? I mean some feature like AMDÂ´s power play..thank you..

millex · Post by **millex** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:06 am

Hallo guys,
IÂ´ve finally decided for this low profile NVidiaÂ´s 8400GS from MSI:
http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func ... at2_no=136

After 3 hours of 2D work (music making) or old style gaming (Diablo 2), the 8400GS finished at 65C and never went down (equally with the bracked under the card opened or closed). But whatÂ´s essential - the working temperature of my E6750E dropped down of about 10C!!

Now, the HDDs go warmer of about 4C, because the 8800GTS cooler exhausted the hot air from them out of the case..also one silent fan at the front of the case will do the job..I will write down the final temperature of graphics then..

thank you for your knowledge base!!

yacoub · Post by **yacoub** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:54 am

Vicotnik wrote:
millex wrote:to Vicotnik: I donÂ´t understand, because the AC AF9PWM cooler DOES exhaust hot air from the case.
What are you worried about? Most graphics card can handle 90C+ without problem.

For a few days/weeks/months. They die quickly at those temps.
Plus all that hot air is just radiating itself throughout your case, heating up the air the rest of your components are trying to use to cool themselves, thus resulting in hotter temps for everything in your case.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:37 am

yacoub wrote:For a few days/weeks/months. They die quickly at those temps.
Plus all that hot air is just radiating itself throughout your case, heating up the air the rest of your components are trying to use to cool themselves, thus resulting in hotter temps for everything in your case.

They age faster at a higher temp, yes. But to say they die quickly.. I dunno. Many, many cards survive at high temps for a long time.
I would not worry really, since given the speed the value drops on computer parts, the graphics card is worth next to nothing when it finally dies. In the vast majority of cases anyway.

And about the heat beeing dumped into the case, let me just quote myself:
Power draw = heat output. A 50W graphics card will dump 50W of heat into the case no matter if it has a small passive heatsink causing it to idle at 60C or if it has a huge passive heatsink causing it to idle at 30C.

Heat in this case is measured in Watts, not Â°C

yacoub · Post by **yacoub** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:29 am

Vicotnik wrote:
yacoub wrote:For a few days/weeks/months. They die quickly at those temps.
Plus all that hot air is just radiating itself throughout your case, heating up the air the rest of your components are trying to use to cool themselves, thus resulting in hotter temps for everything in your case.
They age faster at a higher temp, yes. But to say they die quickly.. I dunno. Many, many cards survive at high temps for a long time.

I wouldn't think anything of the high temps except for the reports of failing cards over the last year or so as cards have been released from the factory for the first time running at such high temps. And they are failing. No, not all of them, but I wouldn't want the risk of mine failing, so I would put better cooling on it, or improve my case airflow, and/or de-clock the card a bit (or I would just not buy a model that runs above ~70C in any normal usage from the factory).
fwiw, i have an 8800GT - a model that was one of the first NVidia cards to be released with BIOS problems that kept the fan too low and allowed the card to hit 80+C in intense situations. I never saw it get above around 68C in my case, but it was still too hot for me so I ran RivaTuner to adjust the fan speed based on temp. The BIOS control was basically 29% fan duty cycle or 60%. With RivaTuner I ran it at 25% and then 35% and then 50% and an emergency setting of 75% for if it went above 65C. And it pretty much never did, because allowing the fan to ratchet up to 50%, instead of being stuck down at 29%, kept it cool enough that it never hit 65C.
Long story short, proper fan settings can keep a supposedly-hot card at a more reasonable temp. And I recently ditched the stock cooling altogether for a vf900 that keeps it 10C cooler at idle and load than it was with the stock setup. Now it idles mid 40s instead of mid 50s, and gaming is around 52C instead of 62C.

And about the heat beeing dumped into the case, let me just quote myself:
Power draw = heat output. A 50W graphics card will dump 50W of heat into the case no matter if it has a small passive heatsink causing it to idle at 60C or if it has a huge passive heatsink causing it to idle at 30C.

Heat in this case is measured in Watts, not Â°C

Yeah except that my concern is the fact that a passive cooler DOES dump it into the case, where-as many active coolers vent the hot air out the rear or the side of the case.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:04 pm

yacoub, read the thread.

I never said that it's ok to run ones graphic card at 90C 24/7. My point was that idle temp is not very relevant to the discussion in this thread. The OP didn't seem to be aware of this. He was looking for a passive but not very HOT graphics card as the topic states and I simply pointed out that the relevant number to look at in that case is Watts and not Â°C. Ok?

About active coolers dumping heat outside the case, I could quote myself again, but I don't feel like it.

millex · Post by **millex** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:36 am

I have to permit with vicotnik, that its the whole time just the "watts game" - not the Â°C problem. As I wrote earlier, my CPU temperature dropped down of about 10 Â°C after changing my graphics. Because my original 8800GTS640MB concumes app. 58W on idle, and the actual 8400GS consumes less than 14W while idling. And one has to observe, that the 8800GTS has an exhaust cooler and the 8400GS doesnt (=the whole heat stays in the case). That means, that the 8400GS generates so much lesser heat, that although it all stays in the case, the temps of my system dropped down markedly.
I go for the front exhaust cooler today, than I will write here the final temps on my system..