Need comments on components. Project: DEAD SILENT computer.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:22 am

I've been looking around these pages for some days now, and found inaudible computers evermore titillating. I have always had a keen interest in soundproofing my systems, but have always fallen a bit short in doing so. Currently, I'm sporting an Antec NSK1300 case with a Celeron 420@2GHz, 2GB ram, 8600GT Passive and a Samsung T166 320GB HDD. The PSU-fan has been changed for a Zalman ZM-F3, and only spins up once in a while. The hard drive has been suspended in flexible, nylon thread (the ones you use to tighten the end of your jacket, hood and so on), and the Celeron heatsink has been replaced with a Conroe one, and the fan swapped for a Zalman 80mm (will change back though, as the original fan was less noisy and cooled better...).

While the above set-up is more than quiet for almost any PC-user, it is still too loud for my liking. I have realised that using a 3,5" drive will ensure that you'll never have a silent computer, and that passively cooling the CPU should be carried out whenever feasible.

Therefore, I have been reading around the web, trying to find the most silent components available. I have also a passion for mATX-cases, as well as sleek looks. Beneath, I have provided a list of components which, according to reviews and experiences, should help eliminate almost any source of noise. Yet, it would be much appriciated if the more experienced sound-proofers could comment on it, as I am bit incertain of some of the components.

Case: Antec NSK3480
PSU: Corsair VX450
CPU-heatsink: Scythe Ninja
Case fans: 120mm Nexus (rear), 92mm Nexus (front)
Mobo: 945GC or G31 based
CPU: Intel E2180
Memory: Crucial Ballistix PC6400 2048MB
GPU: 8500GT Passive
Hard Drive: 2,5" >200GB
Optical Drive: Samsung DVD-burner (?)
Sound-proofing: ?

Now, I have some questions regarding the set-up:
Which HDD should I get? Performance is negligible, as I suspect any modern drive has sufficient performance - the key word is: SILENCE.

Is Samsung the best choice in silent, optical drives? I've read that the SH-series are very quiet.

I know this is a very subjectal(?) question, but if the rest of the components are as silent as they can possibly be, will I gain a lot from adding sound-proofing materials? And should I focus on structure-carried noise, or airborne? If so, WHICH manufacturer is the best option? Can I simply drop by an auto-shop and pick some up there for a lot cheaper?

As I don't have an unlimited amount of money (obviously), and since I really don't need a new computer (specc-wise), any money I can save, yet keeping the computer inaudible is something I will do. So, was thinking that instead of buying an entirely new PSU, I could might as well change the fan in the Antec EarthWatts 380W that is shipped with the case. Would the Nexus 80mm be the best choice for this? Would it make the PSU as silent as a VX450?

dangman4ever · Post by **dangman4ever** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:26 am

Drop the Ballstix RAM and go with any cheap set of DDR2 800 RAM. Don't know how it is in Norway but here in the U.S, the Ballistix RAM is a good $20 to $30 more than other DDR2 800 RAM but only offers the ability to overclock and lower latency. Since it doesn't look like you're overclocking and you won't notice the lower latency outside of synthetic benchmarks, drop the Ballistix RAM if you want to save some money. What other brands of DDR2 800 RAM is available to you?

Anyway, the Samsung SH series are pretty quiet IMO. Significantly quieter than Lite-On and Pioneer drives.

As for which 2.5" drive to get, can't really help you there. Though from what I've read so far, Samsung usually makes some pretty quiet hard drives.

Since costs is a concern for you, check out the Earthwatts 380W first and see if it's quiet enough for your liking. If not, mod the fan to a Nexus. If it still isn't quiet enough, then get the Corsair.

Hope the above helps.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:39 am

Hi, thanks for answering.

I probably should have mentioned it in the first post, but I am planning on doing some overclocking. The Allendales are such cool CPU's that I believe a Ninja with a Nexus 1" away from it can efficiently cool it at ~3,2GHz. God, I just wish Intel would launch some budget 45nm's already!

I chose the Crucial Ballstix, as they overclock very well, and are darn cheap. In comparison, the cheapest 2GB set I can buy here (Kingston PC5300) costs 248kr ($30 essentially, $50 if you don't consider the low dollar). The Ballistix cost 418kr ($52/ $80), a price I'm willing to pay for having some overclocking headroom. The Corsair Dominator PC8500 are also cheap, 495kr.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:29 pm

Seems there's some inactivity in my thread here, so I'll bump it by asking some of the 1. post's questions again.

So, which 2,5" SATA drive is the MOST QUIET?

Will changing the PSU-fan for an 80mm Nexus yield as "much" silence as the VX450?

dangman4ever · Post by **dangman4ever** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:31 pm

Still can't answer your last two questions but I want to clear up the RAM issue.

You do not need highly overclockable RAM with the E2180. Intel C2D systems do not benefit from having faster RAM or having the FSB and RAM ratio at anything other than a 1:1 ratio. Some math:

Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed

E2180:
Multi x Actual FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
10 Ã— 200Mhz = 2.0Ghz, DDR2-400 <<== Stock speeds
10 Ã— 266Mhz = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-533 <<== Easy OC
10 Ã— 333Mhz = 3.3Ghz, DDR2-667 <<== Good OC

So by keeping the RAM and FSB at a 1:1 ratio, all you really need is DDR2 667 RAM, even with overclocking in mind.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:42 pm

Not to seem cocky or anything, but trust me, I know a fair bit about hardware and overclocking, so a lecture isn't necessary

If I were to buy the Ballistix chips, it would be for the higher bandwith that comes with the frequencies attainable, and not for the FSB-headroom.

In reality, I don't need anything but the cheapest RAM. Not because I wouldn't benefit from more expensive, but since my computer almost isn't used for anything but surfing the internet, listening to music and so on. I only play one game anyways, Counter-Strike 1.6, which hardly constitutes to demanding. I guess buying hardware well above my needs is something that has stuck with me.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:48 am

Big SturL wrote: So, which 2,5" SATA drive is the MOST QUIET?

Have you looked in the storage sub-forum? All the information you'll get here is in there

I have a 250GB WD BEVS 2.5" drive. It's... not really that quiet compared to its smaller brothers. Quiet enough for my HTPC but only because the case that lives in has rubber feet (despite the drive being embedded in foam).

Will changing the PSU-fan for an 80mm Nexus yield as "much" silence as the VX450?

Try it and find out! Swap the fan on your existing PSU, if it's too loud then look for alternatives!

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:24 am

Thank you for paying attention to my thread.

I have had a look in the Storage sub-forum, but didn't quite seem to find a definitive answer to which drive is the most quiet. There might not be such an answer, but hopefully someone will give me an idea. I read that the WD Scorpio drives are supposed to be silent. They supposedly are 160GB Ã platter, so a 160GB drive should fill the role of virtually inaudible quite good. Right?

I believe I have found which motherboard I want to purchase. Neither does it utilize a 945GC chipset nor a G31 one, but actually an N630i - The XFX MG-630I-7109. This might seem vain, but I found the green PCB coupled with all black expansion-slots to be quite appealing. Together with an XFX 8500GT, some naked Kingston PC5300, a Corsair VX450, all black fans, a black coat of paint inside the case and on the bezel, and the black and green colour-scheme should be complete. Just wish the Zlaman NT9700 could be run passive...

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:20 am

Big SturL wrote: I have had a look in the Storage sub-forum, but didn't quite seem to find a definitive answer to which drive is the most quiet. There might not be such an answer, but hopefully someone will give me an idea.

Yeah generally when there's no clear consensus that tends to imply that there's no clear winner. A lot of this is subjective anyway (one man's silent is another man's unacceptably loud), and also there's sample variation and people mount them in different cases, etc.

I read that the WD Scorpio drives are supposed to be silent. They supposedly are 160GB Ã platter, so a 160GB drive should fill the role of virtually inaudible quite good. Right?

Well, this is the drive I have (WD Scorpio 250GB), I've compared it with the 40GB drives in the same range (mounted in the same way in the same HTPC case) and it just seems to have a fair bit more idle vibration than the smaller capacity drives. But yeah, if you suspend it with elastic or similar, I'd guess it would be pretty close to inaudible over your other components. Highly likely quieter than any of the alternatives...

antifro · Post by **antifro** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:21 am

Hello and welcome.

I was just looking up the dimensions of your components. I am worried that the ninja and the NSK3480 might be a tight fit. The case is 7.8 inches (198mm) and the heatsink is 150mm. This leaves 48mm or 1.8 inches of space. Keep in mind the folowing:

1. The mobo will not be flat against the side panel
2. The top of the cpu will be higher than that.
3. The fan you willl mount on the ninja will be even higher.

Will 1.8 inches be enough? I dont know. I also dont know the retun policies of stores in your country but if I were you, I would just place the case on its side, put in the mobo w/ chip, place the heatsink WITH THE FAN ALREADY MOUNTED, on top and close the side panel to see if it fits.

About your system overall: Getting a 7,200rpm laptop hard drive and overlocking doesnt make much sense to me; your computer will only work as fast as its slowest part, so why have a fast CPU when your hard drive will slow you down dramatically. If I were in your position, I'd buy the WD3200AAKS; it is new technology and only has one platter, so its cool and quiet but runs very fast for 7,200rpm drive.

As for your goal of having a dead silent pc; it depends on how picky you are

. Dont forget that with your components, you will have at least 2 fans (with a case fan, it'll be 3) and a hard drive. You need to invest into a good fan controller, get acoustic padding, and suspend your hard drive.

Avalanche · Post by **Avalanche** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:53 am

Big SturL wrote:I have also a passion for mATX-cases, as well as sleek looks.

I like the looks of the NSK 1300,

but the NSK3480 looks like the most boring thing in Antec's inventory.

I haven't seen one in person, admittedly. Am I missing something?

pbecker · Post by **pbecker** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:01 am

I have a Ninja mounted in an Antec NSK3400 (replaced by the 3480), and the Ninja *will* fit inside the case!

antifro · Post by **antifro** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:11 am

pbecker wrote:I have a Ninja mounted in an Antec NSK3400 (replaced by the 3480), and the Ninja *will* fit inside the case!

Thanks for clearing it up. Ignore my previous concerns.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:17 am

I'm not after a 7200rpm drive, and I don't think I have stated that either, just one that is 2,5"

. As far as performance goes, you are a bit off antifro with the your statement that a slower drive will slow down the computer dramaticly, and that overclocking and "slow" drives don't go together. A modern hard drive's affect on the overall performance of the PC is miniscule.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:29 pm

A modern hard drive's effect on the overall performance of the PC is miniscule.

I use a 5400rpm system drive,my system is noticeably slower than with my previous 7200rpm. however it's a lot quieter so I am happy.

Plekto · Post by **Plekto** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:51 pm

jaganath wrote:
A modern hard drive's effect on the overall performance of the PC is miniscule.
I use a 5400rpm system drive,my system is noticeably slower than with my previous 7200rpm. however it's a lot quieter so I am happy.

It's basically all about the cache and interface. A SATA 2.5" drive with a 16MB cache will run nearly identical to a 7200rpm desktop drive for anything except streaming data and so on(say a media server or mail server or similar).

Most laptop drives are 8mb, so double-check.

mcoleg · Post by **mcoleg** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:47 pm

the new wd 2.5" 320GB is both very quiet and fast enough to be a system drive. since your game is cs 1.6, the map-load speed won't be an issue (and that's the only thing i can think of when faster drive is really better in a gaming computer; once the map loads, it mostly runs from ram).

keep in mind, there's no sound-dumping for the psu (whatever you choose) in NSK3480. the top cover of the case is practically open and lets any slightest noise from the psu escape. when you get all the case and cpu fans to a certain level, the psu might be the noisiest part of that system.

this is from experience, btw. i could plainly hear both ea380 and vx450. swapped fan in vx450 to slipstream, that helped a bit with mechanical noise the fan makes. then i could hear the electronic noise the psu itself makes - even worse. managed to block some of it by partially blocking the top cover. not too bad now, though. still, could be better.

ea380 might be better (after fan swap) in this situation, btw - it has the top covered while vx450 has the 120mm opening on top, letting the noise escape.

please keep in mind - it's not exactly typical results. the rest of the fans are slipstreams that most of the time spin between 400 to 600 rpm - very low overall noise level for the system in whole. in louder systems, psu (any of the two mentioned, especially after they are moded) noise won't be that much of a deal. just something i thought you might find useful.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:16 am

Thank you for participation in my thread mcoleg, much appriciated. If the VX450 has electronical noise, which PSU would you recommend (of any reasonably priced PSU's).

mcoleg · Post by **mcoleg** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:20 pm

i can speak only from a personal experience, of course.

most of the psu's will have the coil or some other elecrical noise to some degree.

it seems that ea380 that comes with NSK3480 has a little less "buzz"; it might be simply better masked since there's no opening on top.

i'd say - if you get NSK3480, try swapping fan in the psu and see if the results are ok. people used nexus 80mm fan for the swap with good success.

out of reasonably priced psu's ea and vx series are pretty much it. Modu82+ got lot's of good reviews but it will cost 2-3 times as much. there are also some 250 watters that Mike reviewed lately, they seem pretty quiet as well. the articles should be on the front page. i haven't used any of these myself, btw.

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:37 pm

I guess the EA380 with a fan-swap would be the smartest choice economically. Too bad its outwards appearance doesn't represent its interals. But, I guess it's the inside that matters

I liked the idea though of having black connectors and cable-sleeves and such.

mcoleg · Post by **mcoleg** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:42 pm

you won't see them inside NSK3480 anyway but you are right, the sleeved cables and the nice connectors are better, definitely.

if it were cheaper, i might have even opted for one of the modular psu's just to avoid the hustle with the all the wires.

victorhortalives · Post by **victorhortalives** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:44 pm

I've just built one of these and I wouldn't recommend it for a VERY quiet option.

Here's why :

1. Basic problem with the Power Supply config. The P/S supplied with the case is too noisy but does have the advantage that the fan exhausts to the rear of the case. I changed the P/S to a Corsair 520 modular (to minimise number of cables to be managed). Much better P/S but the fan now exhausts upwards - as a result I can hear the P/S fan. Also the Corsair is longer and so makes cable management in the upper section very tight. NO cooling for the DVD drive (no airflow). I may try changing the Antec fan to a Nexus, but it's all built now.

2. Hard drive caddy in the lower section. I had a rattle from the caddy when I mounted a WD 80GB drive (from the SPCR recommended list). Problem comes from the hard mount points against the base. What I did was to cut off half of all four tabs to leave semicircular mount holes. In each hole I placed a Nexus isolating washer and mounted the caddy through these. I also bent the tabs down so that the caddy sits up a bit further from the case. These have two benefits : decouples the caddy from the case AND lifts the caddy so the harddrive mounting screws don't touch the sides of the holes they are mounted through. (from the bottom).

Other problems are :

1. Make sure you get a very thin graphics card or there will be no space left to use the PCI slot just under the card. (Must use MicroATX boards)
2. The bottom PCI slot is only useable with a very thin card due the harddrive caddy etc (unless you go for a vertical 2.5in mounting idea). I put a GigaNIC card here.

I would also recommend a Mini Ninja.

I used Acoustipack on the sides - works OK, but there is no good answer to noise coming through the front (from the harddrive). You can apply soundproofing to the lower section of the front inner cage, but then one of the air vents is now closed.

All in all it was a right pain in the a***. Apart from the BIG saving in weight I would have preferred to buy another P182 and build another very very quiet PC. It ended up costing the same.

potsy · Post by **potsy** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:37 pm

Have you thought about enclosures for your hard drives? I'm using two hitachi 5400rpm notebook drives in scythe quite drive enclosures and can recommend them. I have no psu fan, no cpu fan, no gpu fan and I turn the case fan off for an hour or so at a time while I record music. I also live in a very quiet area across from a few hundred acres of bush/farmland so the background noise is low. Even in those conditions the drives are almost inaudible - if I put my ear about 20cm from the case I can hear some very soft seek noise and that's it. It is so low it can't be heard over a single noctua 800rpm case fan undervolted to 5v.
Potsy

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:22 am

Hi, as you're going for very quiet I'd strongly suggest a HDD enclosure. I have a Scythe Quiet Drive with my WD5000AAKS in it and it makes a lot of difference to the noise of the drive. They also make a version for laptop drives that gives it 3.5" form factor. I think all the latest 2.5" 5400rpm drives are reasonable, Storage Review recently reviewed the WD 320GB and Hitachi 250GB versions, the performance of both was good.
Personally I'd go with Scorpio in 160 - 320GB depending on "need vs want vs cost" and put it in the Quiet Drive. If it's still too loud then put the 2.5" Quiet Drive in a 3.5" Quiet Drive! (Scythe actually suggest this as ultimate solution - but they would as means they sell you 2 Quiet Drives!)
Regards, Seb

victorhortalives · Post by **victorhortalives** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:24 am

Just a comment on the last two posts :

It is virtually impossible to use these Scythe enclosures in this Antec case.

Why ?

Because when the drives are mounted in the Scythe enclosure the only mounting holes are in the sides (Scythe assumes that this is a normal PC case and therefore will mount from the side in a 3.5 in bay).

The 3.5in mounting trays in this Antec case will ONLY mount from the bottom !. Regular drives of course have mounting points side and bottom.

Of course you can always suspend the Scythe case vertically behind the front lower grills - but what a daft solution !

I agree that these enclosures are a good idea (I have some on other PCs)

potsy · Post by **potsy** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:51 am

Hmmm... that's annoying. I guess you could mark where the holes need to be, take them down to your local machine shop and get them to drill the holes and tap a thread in. But there must be another HDD enclosure that has multiple mounting points?

ame · Post by **ame** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:56 am

You could mount the Scythe Quiet Drive in the secont optical drive space.

I would definatly keep the PSU and do a fan swap. The case is designed for the top chamber to have front to back flow seperate of the 'main' chamber. this is a huge advantage in terms of cooling and quiet. If you had a 450VX in there it will suck hot air from the CPU and will most likely spin faster as a result

Dampening (foam) is a must in 3480 as both the front and sides are thin. I would recommend removing the front plastic and squeezing a small amount of foam between it and the metal case when you place it back. this will prevent rattling that enhances case resonance.

Second the 7200 AAKS HD in the QuietDrive or suspended.

victorhortalives · Post by **victorhortalives** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:36 am

ame wrote:You could mount the Scythe Quiet Drive in the secont optical drive space.

I would definatly keep the PSU and do a fan swap. The case is designed for the top chamber to have front to back flow seperate of the 'main' chamber. this is a huge advantage in terms of cooling and quiet. If you had a 450VX in there it will suck hot air from the CPU and will most likely spin faster as a result

I think any other "normal" fan PSU has to be mounted upside down with fan up otherwise no air will get to the PSU.
I'm more inclined to go for a Silverstone Fanless PSU instead (see forum thread in Cases - viewtopic.php?t=47909)

ame wrote: Dampening (foam) is a must in 3480 as both the front and sides are thin. I would recommend removing the front plastic and squeezing a small amount of foam between it and the metal case when you place it back. this will prevent rattling that enhances case resonance.

Great Idea. I'll do it as it will block the rest of the HD noise without interfering with the inside of the bottom front part of the case. I might not need to change the HD as a result.

Thanks

Big SturL · Post by **Big SturL** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:06 pm

I see you have kept my thread alive - much appreciated.

This project of mine is not one I will start before I feel that I really need a desktop computer, as my laptop currently serves me well.

Still, I have yet to find which 2.5" drive is the MOST quiet. I reckon seek-noise is the biggest issue, as vibration is easy to control. I have seen many people recommending the WD Scorpio drives, but which? I'm guessing that single-platter is a must. Could anyone give me the product number to the most quiet?

victorhortalives · Post by **victorhortalives** » Sun May 11, 2008 1:29 am

Update for you on my case AND on your question about 2.5in drives.

I've swapped my 3.5in Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80 GB SATA for a Seagate HD 2.5'' 80GB Momentus 7200.2 SATA7200rpm 8MB (ST980813AS).

Much quieter. Plus I have suspended it in the Floppy Bay of this case.

I had always thought this was a quiet 2.5in drive as I have one in my VERY VERY quiet P182, but I cheated and put it in a Scythe Quiet Drive box - inaudible.

In my NSK3480 this IS a quiet drive - can hardly hear it, but the sound is a bit masked by the Corsair PSU fan. Haven't yet got my Silverstone.

PS. More info on 2.5in drives :

I had 2 of these VERY quiet drives - the 40 GB SAMSUNG SpinPoint M40 _ 2,5" MP0402H P-ATA - one of the best for noise, but SOOOO SLOOOWWWW (5400rpm) that I sold them again !!

I also bought this - HARDDISK 2.5" HITACHI 60 GB, 7200 rpm, ATA /IDE MODEL: HTS721060G9AT00. Very NOISY !!!. But, It's in my old Toshiba laptop now with a NOISY fan, so not a problem

Need comments on components. Project: DEAD SILENT computer.

Need comments on components. Project: DEAD SILENT computer.

Antec NSK3480 build

Scythe Enclosures

Quiet 2.5in drive