Small, silent, powerful and affordable

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:26 am

Hi guys

Long time lurker here. I've gotten a great deal of valuable info off of these boards; let's see if I can contribute, while helping set up my next PC.

I've been putting together specs for a new PC now for a while and am going about it in an orderly fashion that may provide some convenient summary for others who are looking for the same as I am, while opening for some debate on the ideal components to use. A challenge is maintaining compatibility, making sure everything fits.

NOTE: I'll be updating this post with more info. There should be plenty here for starters. Any feedback so far?

Code: Select all


REQUIREMENTS:

	CASE
		A small size, suitable for traveling. I've had success transporting the large P182 (fully fitted, except HDDs brought as carry-on) along with a 24" monitor as special luggage on international flights, but it's pain to lug that large box around. The monitors are lightweight and not a problem. I keep the original packaging for padding.
	POWER
		The use will be heavy 3d design. Amount of intensive rendering is limited, but it should be fast when I need it to be. The rig will not be used for gaming, but should lend itself well to that anyway.
	SOUND
		Low-noise is the highest priority. I've been moderately successful with my current setup which has a passively cooled GPU and mobo. Quite stupidly I never replaced the top fan in the case, which is pretty much all I can hear now. I want to bring the sound level down even lower, being sat at this thing most of the day.  


SPECIFICS:

	Case
		Silverstone SST-TJ08 mATX    	5.5		195x378x381mm
		Silverstone SG01 mATX		    4.9		  2 63x212x393mm
		Silverstone SG02 mATX		    4.9 	  263x212x393mm	
		Silverstone SG03 mATX		    3.5		 200x360x312mm
		Cooler Master Elite 340 mATX	  			195x370x350mm
		Antec NSK3480 mATX             8.1kg  	200x350x360mm
	Motherboard
		ASUS Rampage II GENE, X58
		DFI LanParty JR X58-T3H6
	CPU
		Core i7 920 2.66GHz
	RAM
		G.Skill DDR3-1600 6GB
	PSU
		???
	GPU
		GTX 260/275 1792MB
	CPU COOLER
		Prolimatech Megahalems
		T.R.U.E 120 Extreme
		Silverstone NT05
	GPU COOLER
		Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme GTX280
		Arctic Cooling Accelero S1
	CHIPSET COOLERS
		ZALMAN ZM-NBF47
		Thermalright HR-05
		Noctua NC-U6
	OPTICAL DRIVE
		Smaller SATA drive matching the case color
	EXTRAS
		Thumbscrews
		cable management stuff
		5.25 adapter so I can fit 4 HDDs in a mATX case
	HDDS (existing)
		WDC Velociraptor 300GB
		Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB
		WDC Caviar Green 1TB
		WD Caviar Blue 500GB


DETAILS:

	CASE
		TJ08	195x378x381
			Allround great reviews, but I'm tempted to go smaller in size
			What about HDD cooling? It seems the drives will get hot in this case
			Not great build quality
		SG01	263x212x393mm
			Quieter than the TJ08[7]
			Smaller but reported to run at even lower temps than the TJ08 with smaller fans [10]
			There are "F" and "B" models available. Anybody know the distinctions?
			CPU cooler max height = 78 mm[5]
			NT06-Lite have to be bent to fit[6]
		SG02	263x212x393mm
			Same as SG01, but better front panel?
		SG03	200x360x312mm
			Smaller than TJ08, more traditional dimensions
			Large side vent bad for noise?
			Not a good match for the Accelero xtreme? Accelero S1 works
			Maybe as well go with TJ08 as the size difference is not major [11]
			CPU coolers may interfere with the PSU
			Difficult to get it efficient with the PSU position
			There's room for large gfx cards[3]
		Cooler Master Elite 340 mATX	195x370x350mm
			Basically the same case as TJ08
			Yet to review, but looks good at first glance.
			Can be bought without PSU or fans[8]

	CPU & GPU
		Intel and Nvidia are needed. They've consistently shown themselves to be the most solid for professional use. Also, 1792MB for the gfx card comes in handy for 3d apps. Luckily there are several cards available to those specs.
	MOTHERBOARD
		I've listed two highly praised mATX cards but something tells me there are more good alternatives out there now.
		From all I've seen, I'll need to replace any existing all-in-one coolers with custom solutions to bring down northbridge temps. 
	GPU COOLER
		HR-03
			scathing review: http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-HR-03-GTX-Video-Cooler/dp/B001MF9T40
			comes as passive, but 120mm fan recommended
			positive review: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=91337
			Won't fit SG01: "Now sure, I'm going to have to cut a big hole in the side of the case, the 120mm fan is currently sticking out 3/4"" : http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53828
		Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme GTX280
			Compatible with 260, 275 and the Rampage II GENE. NOT compatible with the SG01 case. All reviews say very silent. Eliminating the gfx card as a significant contributor to noise at load would be great.
			adds about 1.25 inches to the length of the card[9]
		Arctic Cooling Accelero S1
			Compatible with the SG01 case. Am yet to review.
		There are no other good options that I'm aware of
	CPU COOLER
		Prolimatech Megahalems
			Great reviews. Compatible with the Rampage II GENE. NOT compatible with the TJ08 which allows a 165mm max height for CPU coolers...
		T.R.U.E 120 Extreme
			Supposed to be good. To be reviewed
		Silverstone NT05
			Fits in the SG03 (doesn't collide with the PSU). [1]
			Not a major performer, but can help keep a system silent when space is cramped[2]
		Alternative Cooler that will fit the TJ08, or another case?
	OPTICAL DRIVE
		It seems SATA drives are shorter and won't get in the way of RAM or the CPU cooler in a small case
	PSU
		Need to determine the power needed and then get one with the right dimensions. The TJ08 supports full ATX power supplies
	HDDs (existing)
		I would consider getting rid of the 500GB drive, then maybe replacing the older Caviar Green with a larger drive
	FANS
		Setup for the TJ08
			3 good 120mm fans should be able to stay nicely quiet and remain efficient. 1 front, 1 read, 1 on the cpu cooler? The last one may not be necessary? 
		Setup for the SG01
			2 90mm, 1 120mm? 
		Well-reviewed
			Nexus Basic
			Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilent series
			Noiseblocker NB-Multiframe  series
			Scythe Gentle Typhoon - Supposedly better than the S-FLEX?
			Schythe S-FLEX
			Thermalright TR-FDB

[1] viewtopic.php?t=48494&highlight=sg03
[2] http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getart ... rticID=462
[3] http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... eview.html
[5] viewtopic.php?t=46768&highlight=sg01
[6] viewtopic.php?t=50794&highlight=sg01
[7] http://www.sffclub.com/index.php?option ... mitstart=5 VS http://www.sffclub.com/index.php?option ... mitstart=6
[8] http://www.sffclub.com/index.php?option ... mitstart=5 VS http://www.sffclub.com/index.php?option ... mitstart=6
[9] http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=100 ... age=2&key=
[10] http://www.sffclub.com/index.php?option ... mitstart=6
[11] http://www.hardwarezone.com/img/data/ar ... sg03_5.jpg

-I've put this in a CODE tag as there's no INDENT formatting option on this board, and LIST adds too much spacing.

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:40 pm

I'm currently leaning towards:

Silverstone SG02 mATX case with a GF GTX 260.

However I want to replace the GPU cooler but the Accelero Xtreme GTX280 is reported as too large to fit in that case. Any advice?

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:06 pm

Alternative GPU cooler: The Thermalright HR-03 GTX
Fits GTX 260. Reportedly good performance.
edit: Won't fit inside the SG02. (viewtopic.php?t=53828)

The conclusion seems to be that you won't be able to effectively quiet down Nvidia cards GTX 260 and up in the SG02 case unless you're willing to have the fan stick out of the case.

So, it looks like the SG01 and SG02 are out of the question. SG03 may be out of the question due to being nearly the same size as TJ08 but with less performance.

I'm moving on to checking out the Antec NSK3480 case.

edit2: Came across this very helpful thread (links to a spreadsheet file) - SFF "will it fit faq" - http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1119311

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:58 pm

For an i7 I think having the TJ-08 with a downward facing PSU helping exhaust hot air would be useful.

Using RivaTuner with your graphics card to control fan speed should help with fan noise and maybe avoid the need for an aftermarket cooler. You could always try this to begin with.

Fitting 4 HDDs (assuming you want to use all your existing HDDs) and a SATA optical drive in a small case will be difficult.

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:34 pm

Thanks for the suggestions Jamie. It may well be possible that I won't need an aftermarket cooler at all. I'll be using 3d graphics apps, and there's never the kind of intense traffic you get in a game. More on that at the bottom of this post.

I've researched the Antec NSK3480, the Silverstone SG03 and the Silverstone TJ08 and can't find positive indication that any of them will run silently with the GTX 260.

Since I don't intend to play games on the PC and the small cases I like having problems dealing with a 260 quietly I'm setting out to research how the good mATX cases go with a 1GB GeForce GTS 250.

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:26 pm

You might be interested in the Gigabyte 9800GT Silent Cell if you can find it and it suits your needs in the 3d apps department.

There are other passive nvidia graphics cards available as well that are lower powered if your 3d work doesn't use GPU acceleration.

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:04 pm

A passive 9800GT! That was a surprise. I read some reviews then purchased it off of ebay. It ends up at the same price as a GTX 250 but I'll be happy about the investment when sat up at late hours NOT listening to the GPU fan.

One thing I did not consider before hitting the buy button was that the cooling adds to the length of the card, to a total of 10 inches. I'll work around that.

1st step made. Next to decide upon a small case with good airflow and room to fit the GT.

Thanks for the recommendation Jamie!

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:18 pm

Based on that gfx card I was getting enthusiastic about the SG02 again. This time though the problem is the i7 CPU. It seems to be beyond what the case is intended for, leaving little room for a cooler.

The closest I've come to a solution so far is someone who sandpaper-ground down a heat sink that wouldn't ordinarily fit and got a PSU with an active fan aimed towards it. Though it seems effective it hasn't been tested with the i7. Painfully extensive searches for i7s in SG01 and SG02 returned very little worth noting, so it looks as if I again have to decide between ditching the case or ditching the cpu.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1 ... octua+sugo

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:24 pm

Happy to be of service

!

The 10 inches length of the card shouldn't be too much of a problem as a mATX motherboard is typically 9.6 inches x 9.6 inches, so the card shouldn't go much past the edge of whatever motherboard you go with.

For the CPU cooler in the Sugo series, have a look at the Scythe Big Shuriken. You could reverse the direction of the normal fan mounting so that it pulls cool air up through the CPU cooler and pushes it through the PSU. This might be a case where you do have problems with the length of the 9800GT Silent Cell though.

Look forward to pics of your finished rig *hint hint*

, whichever way you go!

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:36 pm

Yes, I forgot to mention: SG01-F and SG02-F work with 12-inch cards.

my .txt with notes on various configuration possibilities is more than 7000 words so far. I don't want all that work to end with a bunch of compromises. But it's tough. The SG03 and 04 haven't seen great reviews. The Antec NSK3480 is rated poorly. The silverstone TJ08 seems to be getting all sorts of mixed feedback.

If it was only a case of building a good full-tower; that would be fairly straightforward...

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:57 pm

After plenty of consideration I'm looking at:

cpu: Undervolted core 2 quad Q9400[1]
gpu: Passively cooled 9800 GT
psu: ? with fan aimed at the CPU cooler
Passive CPU cooler: ? nt06-e doesn't seem great[2], but options are limited. Fanless Cooler Master Gemini II may be an option. Also the Scythe big shuriken

case: silverstone SG02
Top fan: ?
Top rear fan: ?
HDD bay fan: ?
PSU fan: ?

I'm entertaining the idea of manually toggling fans or fan speed before engaging in processing-heavy tasks such as rendering. Or can automatic fan control handle this quite well? Maybe I won't need to fiddle with that stuff anyway.

I'm not sure how there's going to be good airflow over the GPU with this case...

And as I understand there's an issue with mATX motherboard components getting too hot. I can of course deal with that after I get the case, but should keep it in mind when picking mobo.

[1a] http://www.silentpcreview.com/intel-q9550s
[1b] http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/undervolt ... 631-9.html
[2] http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1 ... octua+sugo

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:23 am

Hi
Just making a note that I've completed the build and results are beyond expectations. I'll be posting details and pics as soon as possible!

reddyuday · Post by **reddyuday** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:05 pm

Per128 wrote:Hi
Just making a note that I've completed the build and results are beyond expectations. I'll be posting details and pics as soon as possible!

That is great. I look forward to seeing the details. Did you find a mATX motherboard that supports DDR3 memory? I have been rather frustrated with the non-availability of these boards.

Edit: Just noticed that DFI LP BI G41-T33 mATX came on sale at Newegg. Will check it out.

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:11 am

red: I suggest you check out the ASUS Rampage II GENE. I've listed the lanparty board as having problems with firewire and a tall north bridge heat sink

Thread is up at viewtopic.php?p=477683#477683

reddyuday · Post by **reddyuday** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:50 am

Per128 wrote:I suggest you check out the ASUS Rampage II GENE. I've listed the lanparty board as having problems with firewire and a tall north bridge heat sink.

Oh, yes. There are quite decent boards available for Core i7. But I was asking about Core 2 and DDR3 combination which was on your initial list. I notice that you have switched to DDR2 memory now.

Several manufacturers promised P45 mATX boards, which were exhibited and had good reviews, but never appeared on the market. I made the mistake of assuming that, if a product was reviewed, it would be on the market. My Core 2 processor and DDR3 memory are sadly sitting on the shelf waiting for a decent motherboard!

Thank you for your excellent documentation of all the deliberations you went through in the design process. The system looks good!

JoeTheZombie · Post by **JoeTheZombie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:33 am

Per128,

Can you tell me the height of the 9800gt silent cell? I can not find this dimension anywhere online and hope to fit this card in a Lian Li v351 but am worried the pipes may hit on drive cage.

Per128 · Post by **Per128** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:42 am

Hi Joe, I missed your post. If the information is still useful I don't have any measurements but do have this pic which should indicate the height in comparison with the rear bracket.

You can also see the main thread for more pics
viewtopic.php?t=55022