Case: Silverstone Lascala LC01 (Silver)
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc01.htm
Advantages:
1. Looks - fairly good match to my Sony AV Receiver
2. Accepts standard ATX motherboard
3. Accepts standard ATX PSU
4. Fairly quiet 80mm rear exhaust fan
5. Full-height AGP & 5 PCI slots
Disadvantages:
1. No intake fan
2. No window for LCD display or IR receiver
3. Price
PSU: Silverstone ST30NF
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-30nf.htm
Advantages:
1. Silent
Disadvantages:
1. Cooling performance worry given negative pressure differential inside the case.
2. Price
Motherboard: ABIT AN7
http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherbo ... Socket%20A
Advantages:
1. Soundstorm audio (Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding etc.)
2. Ability to control fan speed based on temperature
3. Optical digital audio connectors
4. NForce2 chipset performance
Disadvantages:
1. Active northbridge fan - need to replace with passive (e.g. Zalman)
2. No Athlon 64 support
3. Question over CPU voltage range to support Athlon XP-M CPUs
CPU: AMD Athlon XP-M
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/Pro ... 07,00.html
Advantages:
1. Compatible with NForce2 motherboards with Soundstorm audio.
2. Low power consumption/low voltage, so low heat generation, so easier/quieter cooling
Disadvantages:
1. Not an Athlon 64
CPU Cooling: Large passive heatsink with ducting to case exhaust fan
Advantages:
1. No extra fan needed
2. Heat from CPU removed directly from case
Disadvantages:
1. How to construct the duct?
2. May not be enough to keep CPU cool
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon 9600
Advantages:
1. Passive cooled - silent
2. Ability to directly drive TV with RGB-SCART - much better quality than S-video
3. Reasonable games performance, especially given low TV resolution
4. DVI output for future use with high resolution plasma pannels
Disadvantages:
1. Some latest NVidia cards have HDTV features not available on Radeon?
My plans for a quiet HTPC - need advice/criticism
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
-
StealthGirl
- -- Vendor --
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:59 am
- Location: Marin, CA.
- Contact:
I hate to tell you this, but you are going to need another fan, maybe two. That 80mm exhaust fan isn't going to be able to draw enough air to keep the 35w CPU, the 40w ATI, the drives, AND the radiant PSU heat from baking the case.
Why not go with a 120mm fan PSU? It'll draw enough to cool the CPU with a good heatpipe heatsink. And another 80mm fan on the side to supply some pressure will help balance it, plus cool the ATI card. I know 3 fans sounds like a lot, but using slow and low voltage, this case could be pretty quiet.
Why not go with a 120mm fan PSU? It'll draw enough to cool the CPU with a good heatpipe heatsink. And another 80mm fan on the side to supply some pressure will help balance it, plus cool the ATI card. I know 3 fans sounds like a lot, but using slow and low voltage, this case could be pretty quiet.
If you can figure a way to passive cool a 6600GT that may be a way to go since it has both HDTV via DVI available, and HDTV over component, and it's gaming performance ain't that bad.
Now of course the question is what OS do you plan to run, and what software. What do you plan to do with the system?
Now of course the question is what OS do you plan to run, and what software. What do you plan to do with the system?
StealthGirl -
Thanks for the advice. Damn, I really don't want 3 fans in the thing! But I did have doubts about the cooling situation and you have confirmed my fears. But I had hoped that ducting the CPU heat straight out of the case might solve them.
I didn't realise the Radeon would generate as much heat as the CPU! Where did you find that out?
The PSU with 120mm fan sounds good - perhaps the Nexus 400W?
What heatsink do you know that would have the right orientation to be cooled by the PSU?
PPGMD,
I expect my next TV will have DVI, and the TV I have now does not have component, so I'm not sure the 6600GT would offer any advantage over the ATI, unless it has some special HDTV decoding in hardware.
HDTV equipment is only just starting to appear here in the UK. There are some test broadcasts on satellite, I believe, but it may be some time before we have real broadcast HDTV.
The UK has had digital TV using DVB standard for some time now. This combined with the fact that PAL is a little better than NTSC anyway (although nothing like HDTV), means that HDTV may not be accepted as quikly in the UK compared to the US.
On the other hand, they use DVB to broadcast high definition in Australia.
I plan to use the system as a file and media server, DVD player, PVR (DVB straight to hard disk). I already have a Nebula DigiTV card.
Software plans not very advanced at this point, but XP, XP media player, Power DVD and the Nebula softare will get me started.
Thanks for the advice. Damn, I really don't want 3 fans in the thing! But I did have doubts about the cooling situation and you have confirmed my fears. But I had hoped that ducting the CPU heat straight out of the case might solve them.
I didn't realise the Radeon would generate as much heat as the CPU! Where did you find that out?
The PSU with 120mm fan sounds good - perhaps the Nexus 400W?
What heatsink do you know that would have the right orientation to be cooled by the PSU?
PPGMD,
I expect my next TV will have DVI, and the TV I have now does not have component, so I'm not sure the 6600GT would offer any advantage over the ATI, unless it has some special HDTV decoding in hardware.
HDTV equipment is only just starting to appear here in the UK. There are some test broadcasts on satellite, I believe, but it may be some time before we have real broadcast HDTV.
The UK has had digital TV using DVB standard for some time now. This combined with the fact that PAL is a little better than NTSC anyway (although nothing like HDTV), means that HDTV may not be accepted as quikly in the UK compared to the US.
On the other hand, they use DVB to broadcast high definition in Australia.
I plan to use the system as a file and media server, DVD player, PVR (DVB straight to hard disk). I already have a Nebula DigiTV card.
Software plans not very advanced at this point, but XP, XP media player, Power DVD and the Nebula softare will get me started.
Well, after a little surfing, I am beginning to think Stealthgirl's estimate of 40W for the Radeon 9600 is a bit high.
In this article, a 9600 pro is measured at less than 20W when overclocked:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... ns_10.html
and I am talking about a non-Pro 9600, which is bound to use less still. I would guess 10 - 15W.
In this article, a 9600 pro is measured at less than 20W when overclocked:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... ns_10.html
and I am talking about a non-Pro 9600, which is bound to use less still. I would guess 10 - 15W.
-
StealthGirl
- -- Vendor --
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:59 am
- Location: Marin, CA.
- Contact:
paulrb, I agree with you on the HDTV in Europe case. PAL is a significantly better standard than NTSC. Combine that with DVB quality broadcast, 100Hz TVs (progressive scan for North American guys), significantly smaller TV room of the average European home, I doubt HDTV will have a reason to come to Europe quickly. By the time it does, you'll probably be wanting to change your PC hardware anyway.
In the past, ATI TV output was significantly better than nVidia. Has the situation changed?
Also ATI has the neat Theater Mode where you can use your normal screen and have the overlay window output to the second monitor/TV in full screen mode.
In the past, ATI TV output was significantly better than nVidia. Has the situation changed?
Also ATI has the neat Theater Mode where you can use your normal screen and have the overlay window output to the second monitor/TV in full screen mode.
Thanks again for the replies.
I think the immediate advantage of the ATI cards for me is the ability to connect directly to the TV using an RGB signal through the SCART connector. This is not supported officially (or unofficially) by ATI. But you can find out about it here:
http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
I have not tried this method and would really like to hear from anyone out there who has got it to work.
I know my current TV (Sony KP41DS1, 41" CRT rear projector) gives a much better picture using RGB compared to S-video. So much so that I bought a mechanical SCART switch so I could connect my DVD player and PVR using RGB, rather than use S-video and avoid using a switch (only 1 of the 3 SCARTs has RGB capability).
I think the immediate advantage of the ATI cards for me is the ability to connect directly to the TV using an RGB signal through the SCART connector. This is not supported officially (or unofficially) by ATI. But you can find out about it here:
http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
I have not tried this method and would really like to hear from anyone out there who has got it to work.
I know my current TV (Sony KP41DS1, 41" CRT rear projector) gives a much better picture using RGB compared to S-video. So much so that I bought a mechanical SCART switch so I could connect my DVD player and PVR using RGB, rather than use S-video and avoid using a switch (only 1 of the 3 SCARTs has RGB capability).
Hey paulrb,
You can try some graphic card cooler with dual heat pipe like zalman. It should enough to cool 9600 down fanlessly.
For PSU, personally i recommand Antec Phantom. Your ideal system will draw a lot power so it's better for a 350W PSU.
Although you have choose for mobile version of AMD but it still hot enough to burn your house. You can have one 12mm fan with fan controller set to lowest fan speed. My Barton 2500+ is using it with a large heatsink like my zalman 6000CU works perfectly.
Your case is fine but personally i recommand a Midi-tower with more space and better design with airflow. Please remember that aluminium cases are good for transfering heat but they have poor shielding of noise compare to high quailty steel cases. Vibration of case fans will easily transfer to aluminium case which makes a high pitch noise which is annoying. I've seen a couple of cases before. So please be careful on what you choices.
Personally i recommand zalman's product. Although it is expansive but it works. Oh by the way i am not zalman's salesman
You can try some graphic card cooler with dual heat pipe like zalman. It should enough to cool 9600 down fanlessly.
For PSU, personally i recommand Antec Phantom. Your ideal system will draw a lot power so it's better for a 350W PSU.
Although you have choose for mobile version of AMD but it still hot enough to burn your house. You can have one 12mm fan with fan controller set to lowest fan speed. My Barton 2500+ is using it with a large heatsink like my zalman 6000CU works perfectly.
Your case is fine but personally i recommand a Midi-tower with more space and better design with airflow. Please remember that aluminium cases are good for transfering heat but they have poor shielding of noise compare to high quailty steel cases. Vibration of case fans will easily transfer to aluminium case which makes a high pitch noise which is annoying. I've seen a couple of cases before. So please be careful on what you choices.
Personally i recommand zalman's product. Although it is expansive but it works. Oh by the way i am not zalman's salesman
cche0691,
The 9600 is already cooled without a fan - that is why I chose it. The question is will the whole case keep cool enough if I stick to my design.
I am now thinking that Stealthgirl's idea of using a PSU with 120mm fan is a better idea. Nexus and Qtech seem to be very quiet. They are 400W and 350W, but I don't think my setup would use much more than 100W - 150W.
I would still like to duct the heat from the CPU using the case exhaust fan if I can figure out how to make the duct. I hope that means I will not need a fan on the PSU heatsink.
I know heat is more of a problem in desttop cases compared to towers, but as I said in my original message, the case needs to fit in with my other home theatre equipment.
Mikael,
Did you connect your SCART to the S-video or RGB from the VGA socket? I think that's what you're saying. If so, that's good news if I decide to go for an Nvidia card later. For now, I already have the 9600, but have only used the S-vid for connection to a TV.
How good was the picture?
Paul
The 9600 is already cooled without a fan - that is why I chose it. The question is will the whole case keep cool enough if I stick to my design.
I am now thinking that Stealthgirl's idea of using a PSU with 120mm fan is a better idea. Nexus and Qtech seem to be very quiet. They are 400W and 350W, but I don't think my setup would use much more than 100W - 150W.
I would still like to duct the heat from the CPU using the case exhaust fan if I can figure out how to make the duct. I hope that means I will not need a fan on the PSU heatsink.
I know heat is more of a problem in desttop cases compared to towers, but as I said in my original message, the case needs to fit in with my other home theatre equipment.
Mikael,
Did you connect your SCART to the S-video or RGB from the VGA socket? I think that's what you're saying. If so, that's good news if I decide to go for an Nvidia card later. For now, I already have the 9600, but have only used the S-vid for connection to a TV.
How good was the picture?
Paul
Hi paulrb,
I think your system will need at least 2 fans. One for cpu and one for PSU. ThermalTake has got a Fanless Heatpipe CPU Heatsink which will draw heat from case fan but it is for P4 and A64 only. Personally i recommand you using bracket like Zalman with a 120mm fan which can blow a larger proportion of air to components other than the cpu (chipset and RAM). For the PSU, yes Nexus and Qtech are good PSU, you should consider. Otherwise i recommand Seasonic, it is really really quiet. Good luck with your system, have fun
I think your system will need at least 2 fans. One for cpu and one for PSU. ThermalTake has got a Fanless Heatpipe CPU Heatsink which will draw heat from case fan but it is for P4 and A64 only. Personally i recommand you using bracket like Zalman with a 120mm fan which can blow a larger proportion of air to components other than the cpu (chipset and RAM). For the PSU, yes Nexus and Qtech are good PSU, you should consider. Otherwise i recommand Seasonic, it is really really quiet. Good luck with your system, have fun
paulrb,
I connected the VGA rgb component to scart RGB, no s-video.
The image quality was very good. The alternative I had was composite,
so there was no match.
Since then I've heard that NVidia has some problems with interlacing,
but most TV's are capable of progressive scan, so I don't think it's a big problem.
/Mikael
I connected the VGA rgb component to scart RGB, no s-video.
The image quality was very good. The alternative I had was composite,
so there was no match.
Since then I've heard that NVidia has some problems with interlacing,
but most TV's are capable of progressive scan, so I don't think it's a big problem.
/Mikael
Sorry I've not posted for a few weeks. Now Xmas is over, I'm starting to think about the idea again.
Latest thoughts: Athlon XP-M 2400+ run at 1.35V, only 35W!
Looking at the page on this site about undervoltable motherboards, the AN7 motherboard only goes down to 1.375 volts, which isn't quite low enough to get to the CPU stock voltage. Certainly no scope for experimenting with undervolting.
The AN7's predecessor, the A7NS goes down to 1.1V. These are also cheaper than the AN7, but don't have the uGURU chip.
So should I go for 2400+ and A7NS combination?
Latest thoughts: Athlon XP-M 2400+ run at 1.35V, only 35W!
Looking at the page on this site about undervoltable motherboards, the AN7 motherboard only goes down to 1.375 volts, which isn't quite low enough to get to the CPU stock voltage. Certainly no scope for experimenting with undervolting.
The AN7's predecessor, the A7NS goes down to 1.1V. These are also cheaper than the AN7, but don't have the uGURU chip.
So should I go for 2400+ and A7NS combination?
First off, yes, a NF7 board + 2400+ is an improvement.
I've been thinking about a lot of the same issues lately. I've also done a lot of research and while there are usually no direct comparisons I've come up with the following estimates on video performance - in case you (or others reading this) really don't need such a powerful card:
Nvidia Nforce2 IGP (integrated graphics, as found on the Abit NF7-M (undervoltable down to 1.1V)):
~4X performance of a Rage 128 Fury card
~1X '' '' '' ATI 9200 card
I currently have a Rage 128, and all the way up to FAKK2 which is the most demanding game I've tried, it's been adequate, so 4X the performance of a R128 will be overkill even!!!
This (using IGP) may be the only time dual DDR really makes any difference.
Does anyone have any idea of the wattage this northbridge(NB) with integrated graphics might use?
I wish there was more data on this but for non directed airflow pins/flattened pins, as seen on fanless NBs etc. are probably best; fins otherwise. All of the "low airflow" reviews here use a fan directly mounted on the heatsink (ie. directed - you determine the air flow direction(s).). Ducting can also be used to direct the airflow. If directed, I imagine that pins would just increase turbulence (even though at the same width, the surface area would be greater than for fins) - some marketing material actually claims that nicreased turbulence improves cooling, but I think this is BS - it will most likely decrease net airflow though the endpoints per unit time.
I may use house air duct material for ducting in the upcoming XP-M 2500+ (can't find a 2400+) and NF7-M system I'll be putting together, and may even experiment with tin foil (! -ok, probably won't work, but I'm cheap and lazy I'm quite wary of using anything flamable.
Sorry for rambling, just that there are a lot of issues I don't think have been addressed on this site before (well, I could have missed something in the mix of hundreds of posts ... .
I've been thinking about a lot of the same issues lately. I've also done a lot of research and while there are usually no direct comparisons I've come up with the following estimates on video performance - in case you (or others reading this) really don't need such a powerful card:
Nvidia Nforce2 IGP (integrated graphics, as found on the Abit NF7-M (undervoltable down to 1.1V)):
~4X performance of a Rage 128 Fury card
~1X '' '' '' ATI 9200 card
I currently have a Rage 128, and all the way up to FAKK2 which is the most demanding game I've tried, it's been adequate, so 4X the performance of a R128 will be overkill even!!!
This (using IGP) may be the only time dual DDR really makes any difference.
Does anyone have any idea of the wattage this northbridge(NB) with integrated graphics might use?
I wish there was more data on this but for non directed airflow pins/flattened pins, as seen on fanless NBs etc. are probably best; fins otherwise. All of the "low airflow" reviews here use a fan directly mounted on the heatsink (ie. directed - you determine the air flow direction(s).). Ducting can also be used to direct the airflow. If directed, I imagine that pins would just increase turbulence (even though at the same width, the surface area would be greater than for fins) - some marketing material actually claims that nicreased turbulence improves cooling, but I think this is BS - it will most likely decrease net airflow though the endpoints per unit time.
I may use house air duct material for ducting in the upcoming XP-M 2500+ (can't find a 2400+) and NF7-M system I'll be putting together, and may even experiment with tin foil (! -ok, probably won't work, but I'm cheap and lazy
I'm quite wary of using anything flamable.Sorry for rambling, just that there are a lot of issues I don't think have been addressed on this site before (well, I could have missed something in the mix of hundreds of posts ...
.Thanks, psh,
I've spent ages looking at micro atx boards and given up. You just don't get all the features I need. I don't think the board manufacturers ever thought about HTPCs. NVidia IGP may have been enough for me, but none of the MATX boards had TV-out, optical SPDIF and Soundstorm aswell. At least none that I could find. Some offered those as add-on options, but you just can't get the options - no-one can be bothered to import them 'cause they only cost a couple of dollars - so almost no profit to be had.
Anyway, the 9600 is passive cooled, probably consumes less than 15W, does DX9 and is likely to be several times better than 9200.
I've spent ages looking at micro atx boards and given up. You just don't get all the features I need. I don't think the board manufacturers ever thought about HTPCs. NVidia IGP may have been enough for me, but none of the MATX boards had TV-out, optical SPDIF and Soundstorm aswell. At least none that I could find. Some offered those as add-on options, but you just can't get the options - no-one can be bothered to import them 'cause they only cost a couple of dollars - so almost no profit to be had.
Anyway, the 9600 is passive cooled, probably consumes less than 15W, does DX9 and is likely to be several times better than 9200.
back to the HD-TV issue..
mid-late 2006 is the earliest anything HD is gonna be around @UK and who knows how limited that will be.. satellite but not normal sky i dont think (run by sky thou) anyway adoption after that by the broadcasters will take forever no doubt (except imported Aus soaps which are already HD).
u might get a few HD DVDs (if u look for them that is).
shame cuz i think football in HDTV would be real nice.. and everything else of course
for a CPU u need ~2.3 ghz to run 1080p. that goes for t-bred through to A64. i dont think any amd could run that fast as cool as your looking for.
however i dont think u'll get much 1080p.. it will be 720p (which europe are supporting apparently, sounds like a bad idea to me) or 1080i. and they both have lower requirements^
as for the Nvidia 6xxx cards.. their 'pure video' supports WMV HD format hardware acceleration.. which would help if thats how its encoded..
i dont think those things are issues any more for you but i just thought i'd clear it up
since ur not going for IGP u can up the FSB to 400 atleast, provided u got ur pc3200..
is there any reason your not going for an Athlon 64 system?
just a real desire for soundstorm / dont want to buy a sound card ??
and on a side-note..
do i have any chance of getting that VGA>SCART thing working with a 50hz tv?
that would be lovely.
does it work for onboard and everything or just specific cards or what?
mid-late 2006 is the earliest anything HD is gonna be around @UK and who knows how limited that will be.. satellite but not normal sky i dont think (run by sky thou) anyway adoption after that by the broadcasters will take forever no doubt (except imported Aus soaps which are already HD).
u might get a few HD DVDs (if u look for them that is).
shame cuz i think football in HDTV would be real nice.. and everything else of course
for a CPU u need ~2.3 ghz to run 1080p. that goes for t-bred through to A64. i dont think any amd could run that fast as cool as your looking for.
however i dont think u'll get much 1080p.. it will be 720p (which europe are supporting apparently, sounds like a bad idea to me) or 1080i. and they both have lower requirements^
as for the Nvidia 6xxx cards.. their 'pure video' supports WMV HD format hardware acceleration.. which would help if thats how its encoded..
i dont think those things are issues any more for you but i just thought i'd clear it up
since ur not going for IGP u can up the FSB to 400 atleast, provided u got ur pc3200..
is there any reason your not going for an Athlon 64 system?
just a real desire for soundstorm / dont want to buy a sound card ??
and on a side-note..
do i have any chance of getting that VGA>SCART thing working with a 50hz tv?
that would be lovely.does it work for onboard and everything or just specific cards or what?
Another case to consider is the HT-400. Custom made insulation for this case is available as well, if you have the money.
The Seasonic Tornado seems to be the best 12cm PSU available.
Rather than an intake fan, just drill a few holes in the front base of the case to allow in more air.
Recently a fellow cut a 12cm hole in the front base of his HTPC case, removed the rear fans (two 60mm), and installed a fanless PSU along with a thermalright XP-120 and fanless VGA cooler. To direct airflow across the CPU and GPU heatsinks, he put in a duct.
I can find the thread if you're interested.
EDIT: digitalconnection offers a good selection of cases, including the HT-400 in silver (bare aluminum) and in black.
The Seasonic Tornado seems to be the best 12cm PSU available.
Rather than an intake fan, just drill a few holes in the front base of the case to allow in more air.
Recently a fellow cut a 12cm hole in the front base of his HTPC case, removed the rear fans (two 60mm), and installed a fanless PSU along with a thermalright XP-120 and fanless VGA cooler. To direct airflow across the CPU and GPU heatsinks, he put in a duct.
I can find the thread if you're interested.
EDIT: digitalconnection offers a good selection of cases, including the HT-400 in silver (bare aluminum) and in black.
mb2: thanks for all that research. Looks like, for now at least, there is no point my using possible HDTV compatability as a means of choosing components.
I suppose my main reason for wanting Soundstorm is connection simplicity. I can just hook it up with an optical SPDIF and not bother with 6 analogue connections also (which may be prone to hiss and buzz, depending how good the M/B's final analogue circuits are or aren't).
That SPDIF will work with everything - DVD playback, surround sound from games, MP3 playback etc... No soundcard you can buy will send surround sound from games down an SPDIF, AFAIK.
According to what I've read, the VGA to SCART/RGB should work at 50Hz. Don't know about non-ATI compatibility. Here's the link:
http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
Trip: yes, that HT-400 is a nice case. Right now I'd settle for a cheap black desktop case. Then I can start building the thing, and if it all works great, then blow some more money on something good looking.
Problem is that I can't find a cheap case that I can be sure takes a standard ATX PSU. Most seem to be slightly different size, or you just can't find out at all, because most people buying a cheap case don't usually ask awkward questions like that!
Thanks for the digitalconnection link. Usefull for inspiration, but I'm not sure the prices would be attractive once you slap on international shipping on something as big & heavy as a pc case. And then there's import duties etc. - probably can't get away with not paying those on a large package either!
Paul
I suppose my main reason for wanting Soundstorm is connection simplicity. I can just hook it up with an optical SPDIF and not bother with 6 analogue connections also (which may be prone to hiss and buzz, depending how good the M/B's final analogue circuits are or aren't).
That SPDIF will work with everything - DVD playback, surround sound from games, MP3 playback etc... No soundcard you can buy will send surround sound from games down an SPDIF, AFAIK.
According to what I've read, the VGA to SCART/RGB should work at 50Hz. Don't know about non-ATI compatibility. Here's the link:
http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
Trip: yes, that HT-400 is a nice case. Right now I'd settle for a cheap black desktop case. Then I can start building the thing, and if it all works great, then blow some more money on something good looking.
Problem is that I can't find a cheap case that I can be sure takes a standard ATX PSU. Most seem to be slightly different size, or you just can't find out at all, because most people buying a cheap case don't usually ask awkward questions like that!
Thanks for the digitalconnection link. Usefull for inspiration, but I'm not sure the prices would be attractive once you slap on international shipping on something as big & heavy as a pc case. And then there's import duties etc. - probably can't get away with not paying those on a large package either!
Paul
I just got myself a mATX Epox board, the EP-8KMM3I-X. It's VIA-based with basically minimal everything. However, it's so cheap that you could have money left over to get a seperate VGA/Audio/TV card of your choice. Or better still, use the VGA-SCART adapter you linked to to use the onboard Unichrome graphics (don't know how good this is yet but looks nice on my 19" monitor for the moment) AND get a high-quality sound card with the works with the money left over.
I was intending this board to be an out-of-the-way linux box but with that VGA-SCART adapter, I might start thinking about turning it into an HTPC. Thanks for the link.
I was intending this board to be an out-of-the-way linux box but with that VGA-SCART adapter, I might start thinking about turning it into an HTPC. Thanks for the link.
You got that right. I fooled around the analog audio output off my Asus P4P800-VM HTPC (which has SoundStorm) and the optical out is much cleaner. I think this would be true in all PC's. Of course, you need an audio amp that can handle SPDIF in.paulrb wrote:I suppose my main reason for wanting Soundstorm is connection simplicity. I can just hook it up with an optical SPDIF and not bother with 6 analogue connections also (which may be prone to hiss and buzz, depending how good the M/B's final analogue circuits are or aren't).
Going SPDIF also cuts down on cabling - one cable for audio instead of six. Some motherboards don't include the SPDIF connectors (mine didn't), so watch for that.
FYI - SPDIF out is not limited to SoundStorm (aka Analog Devices audio chipset). I think most audio chipsets include it nowadays.
Too bad about no HDTV in Europe. I've got a Panny plasma running off a MyHD card via DVI and it's spectacular!
I hadn't realised you were in England (though I see it now on the left hand side).
Quietpc.com and koolnquiet.co.uk are two British sites I know of.
EDIT: see SPCR UK sticky.
Quietpc.com and koolnquiet.co.uk are two British sites I know of.
EDIT: see SPCR UK sticky.
Trip: yes, I have used QuietPC before - back when it was one guy probably working from his garage in Farnborough! Good kit.
mco_chris: Soundstorm without an SPDIF (coax or optical) would be like... ermm... a broken pencil - completely pointless!
I don't know if you realise, but what makes soundstorm uniue is that it encodes multi-channel surround sound into dolby digital format, in hardware, in real time. No sound card you can buy for any money does this. Lots of sound cards will pass through 5.1 DD from a DVD movie, or pass a stereo CD or MP3 signal down SPDIF. But nothing else will, for example, take the 4 or more channel surround sound from a game and send that down SPDIF! With other cards, you would need the phono cables aswell to get surround sound from games.
The ABIT boards (AN7 and NF7(S)) have optical SPDIF, and so does my Sony DD amp, so that's why I chose them.
Thanks again to everyone who has chipped in so far - I really must get to work on this thing soon...
Cheers!
Paul
mco_chris: Soundstorm without an SPDIF (coax or optical) would be like... ermm... a broken pencil - completely pointless!
I don't know if you realise, but what makes soundstorm uniue is that it encodes multi-channel surround sound into dolby digital format, in hardware, in real time. No sound card you can buy for any money does this. Lots of sound cards will pass through 5.1 DD from a DVD movie, or pass a stereo CD or MP3 signal down SPDIF. But nothing else will, for example, take the 4 or more channel surround sound from a game and send that down SPDIF! With other cards, you would need the phono cables aswell to get surround sound from games.
The ABIT boards (AN7 and NF7(S)) have optical SPDIF, and so does my Sony DD amp, so that's why I chose them.
Thanks again to everyone who has chipped in so far - I really must get to work on this thing soon...
Cheers!
Paul
Saw your early question in this thread about minimizing the number of fans. I built something similar to what you want and made a small modification in order to remove the CPU fan.
If you use Seasonic Super Tornado or any other PSU with the fan sucking air from the box into the PSU this can be made. Just loosen the PSU and push it about 10cm into the case so the fan will sit right next to the CPU.
To make sure hot air from the PSU goes out of the box, make sort of a duct (just a single wall is needed) from the PSU air output and out back of the case.
As heatsink you can use Zalman CNPS6500B-AlCu which have the fins in the right direction for this purpose.
I hope my idea is clear as I for the moment have no photos to demonstrate. Otherwise just ask and I'll try to be more clear!
If you use Seasonic Super Tornado or any other PSU with the fan sucking air from the box into the PSU this can be made. Just loosen the PSU and push it about 10cm into the case so the fan will sit right next to the CPU.
To make sure hot air from the PSU goes out of the box, make sort of a duct (just a single wall is needed) from the PSU air output and out back of the case.
As heatsink you can use Zalman CNPS6500B-AlCu which have the fins in the right direction for this purpose.
I hope my idea is clear as I for the moment have no photos to demonstrate. Otherwise just ask and I'll try to be more clear!
Thanks Goodguy,
Your suggest has me confused, though...
I can't imagine you could move the PSU 10cm back. It would hit the back of the optical drives, wouldn't it? In the tower case I'm using right now, for example, the whole thing is only 40cm deep. What kind of case did you do this in?
Or...
Did you mean 10mm? But that's almost no distance at all - why would you bother? With a big flower heatsink like that and (I assume) the 120mm fan in the Seasonic PSU, 10mm would not make much difference either way.
Anyway, its interesting and surprising to hear that it works. Normally with those Zalman flowers, the fan is set to blow directly down onto the heatsink. You have yours sucking from the side. (That sentance is going to appear in some strange Google searches!) So I would think it would make it much less efficient.
But maybe with a lower power processor, the cooling effect is still more than enough.
So I wonder if this idea would work in my design...
1. Do the similar Zalman Flower heatsinks for Socket A have their fins in the same orientation?
2. Are the CPU sockets always in exactly the same place on different motherboards (especially ones with diffrent socket types).
3. Would the extra heat from the CPU fool the PSU into thinking it needed its fans to run faster. Actually, maybe that's exactly what is required!
Paul
Your suggest has me confused, though...
I can't imagine you could move the PSU 10cm back. It would hit the back of the optical drives, wouldn't it? In the tower case I'm using right now, for example, the whole thing is only 40cm deep. What kind of case did you do this in?
Or...
Did you mean 10mm? But that's almost no distance at all - why would you bother? With a big flower heatsink like that and (I assume) the 120mm fan in the Seasonic PSU, 10mm would not make much difference either way.
Anyway, its interesting and surprising to hear that it works. Normally with those Zalman flowers, the fan is set to blow directly down onto the heatsink. You have yours sucking from the side. (That sentance is going to appear in some strange Google searches!) So I would think it would make it much less efficient.
But maybe with a lower power processor, the cooling effect is still more than enough.
So I wonder if this idea would work in my design...
1. Do the similar Zalman Flower heatsinks for Socket A have their fins in the same orientation?
2. Are the CPU sockets always in exactly the same place on different motherboards (especially ones with diffrent socket types).
3. Would the extra heat from the CPU fool the PSU into thinking it needed its fans to run faster. Actually, maybe that's exactly what is required!
Paul
Paulrb, I used the case Lian-Li PC-9300, http://www.lian-li.com/product.php?acti ... 4e389a825d
which I think is very similar to Silverstone LC-01. Lian-li is aluminium though.
I am using Seasonic PSU with 8cm fan. Replaced the fan with Panaflo L1a and control it manually with a fanmate. The normal setting I use for the fan is 5v. CPU is P4 2,4Ghz, so it's not a very cool one, but this works fine anyway. My idle temps is around 42C for the CPU.
Only when the CPU is constantly at full load, I let the fan spin faster.
There is room to push the PSU 10cm into the case, the CD-rom on the other side is not going to stop you.
I'm sorry if anyone was abused by my language..
which I think is very similar to Silverstone LC-01. Lian-li is aluminium though.
I am using Seasonic PSU with 8cm fan. Replaced the fan with Panaflo L1a and control it manually with a fanmate. The normal setting I use for the fan is 5v. CPU is P4 2,4Ghz, so it's not a very cool one, but this works fine anyway. My idle temps is around 42C for the CPU.
Only when the CPU is constantly at full load, I let the fan spin faster.
There is room to push the PSU 10cm into the case, the CD-rom on the other side is not going to stop you.
I'm sorry if anyone was abused by my language..
Goodguy,
Thanks for clearing that up. I was thinking you meant a tower case. I can see that pushing the PSU in may not be a problem in some desktop cases.
I considered the Lian-Li, but decided against it because it is mATX. As I explained earlier in this thread, I can't seem to find a mATX motherboard with the features I want.
The Silverstone LC01 is full-ATX, and also aluminium, I think. But the LC02 and others are steel with just an aluminium front. That's why they're cheaper, I suppose.
I was thinking of an Athlon XP-M 2400 or 2500, and an ATX PSU with a 120mm fan. So that's a lower-power CPU (35W or 45W) with a higher power PSU fan than your setup. So perhaps the flower heatsink will work for me without another fan also.
I wonder if I will need to push the PSU in at all. I will see if I can work this out...
What does everyone else think of this idea?
Thanks again for this suggestion, Goodguy.
PS. I was referring to my own sentance and Google, not yours!
Thanks for clearing that up. I was thinking you meant a tower case. I can see that pushing the PSU in may not be a problem in some desktop cases.
I considered the Lian-Li, but decided against it because it is mATX. As I explained earlier in this thread, I can't seem to find a mATX motherboard with the features I want.
The Silverstone LC01 is full-ATX, and also aluminium, I think. But the LC02 and others are steel with just an aluminium front. That's why they're cheaper, I suppose.
I was thinking of an Athlon XP-M 2400 or 2500, and an ATX PSU with a 120mm fan. So that's a lower-power CPU (35W or 45W) with a higher power PSU fan than your setup. So perhaps the flower heatsink will work for me without another fan also.
I wonder if I will need to push the PSU in at all. I will see if I can work this out...
What does everyone else think of this idea?
Thanks again for this suggestion, Goodguy.
PS. I was referring to my own sentance and Google, not yours!
If the LC01 is anything like my LC02, you'll want to open up the fan grill...it's very restrictive, especially for a system like yours where you'll need all the airflow you can get.
None of the LC01 pictures on Silverstone's web site show much grill detail, but the bottom-left "featured photo" for the LC02 shows how bad it may be.
None of the LC01 pictures on Silverstone's web site show much grill detail, but the bottom-left "featured photo" for the LC02 shows how bad it may be.
I realize that the LC01 is quite different. You may be able to get by without any modifications. But basic principles still apply - opening up grills would give you more airflow and less turbulence (and hence, less noise) for the same fan speed, especially since the stock ones, if they're punched similarly to my LC02, are very restrictive.