small quiet build for downloading stuff

[bbzidane]

I was wondering if people would help provide with advise on parts for building a new machine. I'm familiar with building gaming machines, not with small low power machines though.

I'm looking to be running Windows (XP or Vista, with all GUI enhancements disabled). This machine will be running 24/7 so low power is nice. Needs to be virtually silent, as I live in a studio and sleeping 10-15 feet away from where the machine will be situated.

The plan is to use this machine to download torrents (tv shows) and would like to be able to play standard definition video (divx/xvid/h264). And probably end up as my surfing box so I don't need to turn on my gaming machine. Would love to have eSata though that is rare on small machines. Plan to have 1 or maybe 2 3.5" drives, up to 4GB of memory if it can take it.

Not sure about motherboard or CPU.

Was thinking of getting a Mac Mini, though I don't know if it is going to be updated shortly and the hardware is getting old.
Does it make sense to wait for the Atom processors?

thanks

[jessekopelman]

You don't have to wait for Atom. You can get the Intel BOXD945GCLF (µATX with soldered on 1.6 GHz Atom) right now, for about $75. The GMA950 IGP on this board should handle pretty much any SD video. To make it silent, you will have to replace the chipset fan (possibly the whole heatsink). The only real downside is that while this Atom only has a 4W TDP, the 945 chipset and board VRM is not that efficient. You will probably idle around 50W, with 2X 3.5" drives. This board is targeted at low cost, not low power, solutions. You can probably make a slightly lower power solution that is also more flexible for about the same money using an Nvidia 6100 board coupled with an undervolted single core AMD processor.

[bbzidane]

I guess when I said wait for Atom, I meant the dual-core Atom (sort of worried about not enough power), and a lower power consumption chipset.

Does an intel board + celeron consume less power than a nvidia board + sempron?

I don't remember reading much about nvidia board on mini-itx. The smaller the footprint the better, not much space in my small studio.

Would you suggest mini-itx or micro-atx? from a quiet and cooling standpoint
I guess I know the understand, bigger case, better cooling, less noise

[jaganath]

Does an intel board + celeron consume less power than a nvidia board + sempron?

no is my guess. in theory TDP of Celeron 4X0 is lower, but intel chipsets tend to be power-hungry, so it evens out. when we're talking about idle below 50W, you get diminishing returns, so in any case it's only a handful of watts difference. I would recommend a 45W Sempron (e.g. LE-1250) + microATX mobo (single chipset [MCP61] is better).

mini-itx or micro-atx? from a quiet and cooling standpoint

microATX cos it has standardised heatsink retention mounts, you can use Ninja, HR-01, etc.

[jessekopelman]

I guess when I said wait for Atom, I meant the dual-core Atom (sort of worried about not enough power), and a lower power consumption chipset.

I think that's going to be a long wait. Atom is already cannibalizing Celeron sales. I just don't see Intel rushing to release a dual-core Atom and if they did so in the near term, it would be priced considerably higher.

Does an intel board + celeron consume less power than a nvidia board + sempron?

Possibly, but you have a much better selection of Nvidia AMD boards that support underclocking. Once you underclock, the Sempron will blow the Celeron away in terms of energy consumption.

I don't remember reading much about nvidia board on mini-itx. The smaller the footprint the better, not much space in my small studio.

Would you suggest mini-itx or micro-atx? from a quiet and cooling standpoint
I guess I know the understand, bigger case, better cooling, less noise

This is a moot point, because you want 2X 3.5" HDD. There are no mini-ITX only cases that support that. Mini-ITX definitely has some nice stuff going for it in theory, but in practice the MB and case selection is just not there yet. A nice µATX case like an Antec NSK3480 can be made virtually silent fairly easily and doesn't take up much space.

[jessekopelman]

microATX cos it has standardised heatsink retention mounts, you can use Ninja, HR-01, etc.

I agree with the µATX part, but for different reasons (see above). The thing is that the OP is not going to need much in the way of a HSF to silently keep his temps under control for the CPUs he is considering. His biggest noise issue, once he has all his fans running at an appropriate speed, is going to be the HDD. He needs to pay a lot of attention to either getting ones that are quiet enough off the bat or spending on Scythe Quiet Drive, or the like.

[loimlo]

I agree with jessekopelman. Once you undervolt and underclock single core cpu to 1G @ 0.85V, you'll find it needs little airflow to cool down. My stock cooler's fan never rotates beyond 800RPM while downloading.

I've a AM2 Abit NF-M2S 6100 board and Athlon64 3000+ which is running at 1G @ 0.85V at idle as well as 1.8G @ 1.1V at full loading. Besides, I've measured 43W at idle with a 3.5' HD and a DVD burner from the wall.

As for HDD noise, I've suspended it. Btw, I used a 80mm fan with 5V trick to blow over the HDD. It's a machine for downloading

[bbzidane]

thanks for the advice so far

question about the cpu, i was thinking of getting a dual core cpu, as i tend to multi-task and open up a lot of tabs in firefox, would i see a decent drop in power consumption if i went to a single core? if dual core, im looking at the 4050e.

and when undervolting/underclocking, is it better to do so in the bios or by software?

[jessekopelman]

Whether you need a dual core depends on what your definition of a lot of Firefox tabs is. I always found my old 2GHz P4 to be perfectly adequate for all web browsing tasks accept for playing flash (which may have been more about the chipset or drivers, anyway). But, I rarely have more than 4 tabs open simultaneously. On the other hand I always have Thunderbird and iTunes open (and playing) alongside Firefox . . . My own impression of dual core vs. single is that it is a bigger deal for multi-threaded applications (like media encoders) than just general multitasking (where sufficient RAM seems to be the key ingredient). I say that after moving from a P4 with 512MB of RAM to a C2D with 1GB or RAM. Yes, multitasking was improved slightly, but it was perfectly fine before. Dual core will definitely add to your power consumption but probably not by more than 5W at idle (which is likely where you are going to be most of the time). If you were going to get an AM2 dual core, you might as well just get a 4850e -- it's only $20 more than the 4050e. Really, I think you'll find something like a LE-1600 perfectly adequate and it is half the price of a 4050e. I guess one thing in favor of a dual core is that it gives you a bit more headroom for decoding stuff in x/H264. But by the same token, you might want something with a better IGP (780G, NV 8300) for future flexibility. Remember, feature creep is going to add Watts to your draw and $$ to your budget . . . I think LE-1600 (this single core Athlon can be found cheaper than the corresponding Sempron) + MCP61 motherboard + undervolting is a very cost/energy effective way to go. Since the MB is AM2, it would be no problem to drop in a more powerful 45W CPU in the future, if you decided you needed dual core goodness.

[jessekopelman]

BIOS undervolting/underclocking is a lot more foolproof. I think Gigabyte is a brand well known for having good options in most of its boards, but you might need to research further.

Still there can always be problems with these things. I used to overclock my C2D (through BIOS) and I am a heavy user of S3 (standby or sleep mode). Whenever the machine came out of S3 the overclock would be gone! It wouldn't come back until I rebooted. I had read a lot about overclocking this exact motherboard and nobody mentioned any such issues -- I guess very few extreme overclockers worry about putting their PC to sleep . . . Well, this is one worry you won't have since you plan on leaving the thing busy with torrents 24/7.

[jessekopelman]

Would love to have eSata though that is rare on small machines.

You can buy a PCI Express eSATA card for ~ $25.

[Lawrence Lee]

I'm using a X2 for my 2nd machine which I use for backup/file serving/downloading, etc. I underclock/undervolt using CrystalCPUID, which I highly recommend. You can configure it to jump to whatever voltage/multiplier you want depending on CPU load. Most of the time it sits at 1.0Ghz and 0.800V.

For good performance and low power nothing beats a 45W X2 and perhaps a 740G motherboard. The Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2 for example.

[autoboy]

Find yourself something old and slow like a 500mhz P3 for free, add a SATA card, and you've got yourself a download machine. Why spend $ to try and save $. There are also some routers that can run torrents and save to an attached USB harddrive. I don't know much about them, but they do exist. There are some that come like that from the factory, and there are some that can be modified with open source software to run a torrent client. You set up the torrents with your PC, then turn it off and let the router download them for you.

[bbzidane]

I think I will go with the single core then, considering how low cost of the cpu.

I'll take a look at Gigabyte motherboard then, as I am currently using them for my gaming rig.

As for the eSata, I was thinking of getting those adapter plates that extends the onboard sata to esata.

I prefer bios undervolting if possible as it is one less thing I have to worry about when reinstalling Windows.

I have thought about getting a router/nas that does torrent as well, but I still need a machine for daily email/surfing and would be nice if I can just use the machine I have running 24/7 for downloads. There are other stuff that I downloads that aren't torrents, there is a korean web site that has an IE plugin for downloading files, which is why I'm stuck with Windows.

I have still the motherboard and case to decide upon. Motherboard isn't going be too hard I think, but finding a nice case can be painful. Even though I probably don't need a powerful hsf, it would be nice to have a big one so i can cool the entire case with a single 120mm exhaust if possible.
Currently looking at NSK1380, need to read up on it some more though

thanks again for the input so far

[autoboy]

I like the $10 Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 for cooling low power CPUs. It is inaudible up to 800rpm in my house anyways. It cools my Athlon 3200+ at 500rpm. For $10 you can't go wrong.

[jessekopelman]

As for the eSata, I was thinking of getting those adapter plates that extends the onboard sata to esata.

The problem is that these things don't actually extend SATA to eSATA. They just give you an external SATA port -- you still need a SATA-to-eSATA cable to connect an eSATA enclosure to your PC. Adding the cost of the cable to the bracket and your pretty much up to the cost of the eSATA PCI express card . . .

Currently looking at NSK1380, need to read up on it some more though

NSK3480 beats the NSK1380 in everything but looks. Unless you are going to stick this someplace very prominent, it is the better choice.

[L2GX]

I'm running an atom D945GCLF machine now, 24/7.
It runs a bit hot, mainly because of the PSU efficiency I think, I'm using an old 300W supply, and because I use a 3.5" hdd

I didn't surf much on it before I put it away and switched to remote desktop, but it does all you want, including movie playback, and on my 1440*900 screen, too.

And it's cheap as **. At 10 eurocents a watt, I was optimistically aiming at saving 500 euro, however 200 seems more likely, and I have an expensive power provider

E-sata is obviously lacking, and I have to say I cannot transfer big files over network from this machine, so I'll have to resort to a usb-stick or portable enclosure.

Only thing I'm wondering is why you would need 4GB of ram? 1 gig suits me fine!

[bbzidane]

the alpine 7 does look like a good little cooler

Will take a look at sata controllers with esata and see how that compares to sata to esata brackets

I was hoping to avoid getting another tower case, as that would mean I have to towers beside my desk. Since it is unlikely I can get away with building a machine the size of a mac mini, I guess I will have to settle for another tower.
The NSK 3480 does seem nice, how does that compare to the antec solo/p150?

A question about the PSU, I'm thinking that the machine is lower power enough to use a picopsu, but should I? I know it is more efficient, but I can get a efficient psu of standard size as well. Is it worth the cost and limited future-proofing?


I looked at the D945GCLF, I don't like that its only 10/100 on the network and only one slot for memory. I have small gigabit network and I want everything to be gigabit. I know isn't that much faster, but it is a bit faster. Though I do like the fact that it is mini-itx instead of micro atx. Another issue I have with it is a non-standard hsf. More of a pain to quiet that down. I'm looking to get 4GB of memory, as some one noted on this thread earlier, that memory becomes important when multitasking, and I will likely have a bunch of programs and firefox open at all times.

[protellect]

I'm running a micro atx ASUS nvidia geforce 6150 motherboard with 1gb memory, and a dual core 45w AMD processor. Runs a 250GB seagate and a 1TB WD drive at about 55w idle.

The whole thing was pretty cheap, but I used a lot of recycled parts.

I'd suggest recycling as much as you can.

Gigabit Ethernet is totally worth it though for file transfers and backing up.

[jessekopelman]

The NSK 3480 does seem nice, how does that compare to the antec solo/p150?

Maybe not quite as good from a silencing perspective (although fine for such a low heat application), the NSK is much, much, much smaller than a P150.

A question about the PSU, I'm thinking that the machine is lower power enough to use a picopsu, but should I? I know it is more efficient, but I can get a efficient psu of standard size as well. Is it worth the cost and limited future-proofing?

How expensive is your electricity? The PSU that comes with a NSKxx80 is 80+ already. It seems very unlikely to be worth the extra money to save maybe 5W of draw. PSU fans do make noise, unlike fanless power bricks, but HDD noises is likely to be greater -- especially if you swap the PSU fan. In the end it comes down to money. To make something totally silent a 1m, you will probably end up spending twice as much (on things like PicoPSU and HDD silencing boxes) as on something that is silent from 2m away.

I looked at the D945GCLF, I don't like that its only 10/100 on the network and only one slot for memory. I have small gigabit network and I want everything to be gigabit. I know isn't that much faster, but it is a bit faster. Though I do like the fact that it is mini-itx instead of micro atx. Another issue I have with it is a non-standard hsf. More of a pain to quiet that down. I'm looking to get 4GB of memory, as some one noted on this thread earlier, that memory becomes important when multitasking, and I will likely have a bunch of programs and firefox open at all times.

AMD AM2 solution + undervolting blows Atom out of the water for features at the same or even slightly better power consumption. The only reason to consider Atom is if you want mini-ITX. In that case you are also down to a single internal HDD. You can use the PCI slot to upgrade to GigE and that is a very low cost upgrade. Another big drawback of the D945GCLF is no DVI port -- kinda negates the benefits of the 945 chipset over the SiS stuff on the Celeron mini-ITX boards. 4GB of RAM is overkill (2GB is fine even for Vista), but at today's prices you might as well do it anyway.

[loimlo]

http://materialistica.livedoor.biz/arch ... 17414.html
Desktop Atom platform drew a little more power than I would like. First, Intel used a relative power hog - 945G - to comply with Atom. Second, Intel disabled SpeedStep in desktop Atom to reserve resources for netbook counterpart. Atom is still a good energy efficient platform, though not the best one.

Pico is worth buying it if you want to save 10 watts more in such a low-powered system. I measured 33W at idle from the wall with the same components by using a Pico. However, Pico at least cost 5 times than my reliable SS-200SFD or SS-300SFD.

[bbzidane]

thanks for all your input

below is the system im planning to put together

case: NSK3480, as suggested
psu: Corsair 450VX, don't have the tools to swap the fan in the psu that comes with the case, so going for something quieter
cpu: AMD Athlon 64 LE-1600, will see how well a single core works with my light use
motherboard: Gigabyte GA-M78SM-S2H, looked at the ASUS equivalent, but it doesn't allow undervolting in the bios
memory: Corsair 2x2GB DDR2 800
hsf: Using Scythe Ninja that I have kicking around
fan: Yate Loon 120mm that I also have kicking around, might hardwire it to 5v
hard drive: Western Digital WD6400AAKS, thinking of getting a Scythe quiet drive and mounting it in the optical drive bay

re: the esata, I'll see if I really need it and get a controller later

am i missing anything, and is there anything else i should be worried that would make the system noisy?


thanks again for all the feedback

[jessekopelman]

psu: Corsair 450VX, don't have the tools to swap the fan in the psu that comes with the case, so going for something quieter

The only tool you need is a screwdriver! Just power your new fan directly from the PSU via a 4-pin molex connector. You lose PSU power fan control, but you don't need it since your system will never load the PSU much (probably 60W or less). Since you will need want the fan to always run at a low speed, get a 4-pin (molex)-to-3-pin cable and add a Zalman Fanmate. Combine that with a decent slow 80mm fan and you just saved at least $50 over the cost of a 450VX. A similar screwdriver only fan swap is to just use a 3-pin to 2-pin cable to connect to the internal header inside the PSU. The advantage is (maybe) easier cabling and keeping the PSU's fan control, but the disadvantage is that if you don't pick the right replacement fan it won't start at all until the PSU gets pretty hot (OEM PSU fans tend to have a much lower starting voltage than retail 80mm fans).