mobo for new AMD BE-2300 / BE-2350?

holymuchos · Post by **holymuchos** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:20 pm

I just started reading about these new 45w dual cores from AMD. They are listed under the Athlon X2 name. Will they still work with mobo's designed for Athlon 64 x2? On newegg I don't see any motherboard designed for X2, only for 64 X2. (As you can probably tell, I am a newbie when it comes to AMD)

Also, I was reading through the "recommended silent mobos" at the top of this forum, but it seems to be quite an old list. If I'm trying to go for a really efficient, quiet pc, what exactly should I be looking for in a motherboard?

Thanks!

prod · Post by **prod** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:52 pm

There have been a few discussions here you can search for.
Give us a few details about what you want to do with it. eg home theatre, gaming, over/under clocking, basic apps etc.
Also, it has been determined that the x2 3600 processor is very similar and can be undervolted to provide the same low wattage for less money.
A few that people have liked: Asus M2A, Biostar TA690G, GA-MA69GM. All of those have the 690G chipset.

holymuchos · Post by **holymuchos** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:23 pm

let's see, this pc will be for:
1. light gaming (WoW mostly)
2. medium 3d apps (blender)
3. heavy photoshop (regularly save to layered tiffs over 200MB)
4. everyday coding (eclipse, visual studio)

will hopefully get some sata hd's in a mirrored raid, (for photo collection) so the mobo will have to support that.

basically, i'm confused as to what all the different north-bridge chipsets do. plus i'm new to amd, and like the idea of their superb energy efficiency.

thanks!

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:35 am

It sounds like a bit much for an onboard video matx to do. A midrange vid card like a 7600 fanless Gigabyte can work.

Note----nVidea's 550/570/590 chip sets while very good are all limited to RAM running at 1.95 v or in some cases-a bit less. Be sure you know what RAM volts is right as trying to get these boards to post with higher V ram is a nightmare.

The Gigabyte and Asus boards with the 590 chips are VERY sweet---lots of features. You'd be paying some for SLI you don't need, Asus M2n-E has the 570 and no SLI,good price. It has lots of the neat features of the more expensive 590 boards. Early M2N-E's had big troubles with crappy bios. Now the boards shipping have a newer better bios (usually). There were a lot of people who tried to get 2.2 V RAM to work...it didn't. The onboard sound is flaky can have driver conflicts. HOWEVER.....these do undervolt,have quality components...aside from the audio. Use a soundcard and the right RAM and its good stuff.

ECS mobo's get knocked a bit for not being top overclockers but when you look at user reviews-rather than overclocker sites---they tend to set up easy and stable.. Not a lot of bugs.

Boards running Via chipsets get overlooked...a few less features-a little less power....yet they also tend to be a bit cooler running than Nvidia,and less money

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:49 am

With MOBOS especially---I highly recommend reading the user reviews at New Egg. Popular units may have 100+ reviews. Some tell you nothing. Some tell you exactly what you need. The whole tells you what issues pop up a lot-and how some builds avoid those issues. You also get some idea about the general quality control,tech support,how good the manual is etc.

A Review site will have one unit one day and an expert will see how it overclocks. That does little for me. A cross section of 150 users-some newbies..some who built 20 machines with that board,that tells me stuff.

Look for a build where all went well and the guy says what RAM he used. Go with something known to work with no fuss. Note whether users are doing a bios flash,whether they need newer drivers right away etc. I like to aim for a board that has at least 30 reviews so I get a pretty good idea of what to expect

Don't hurry too much. In a couple of months prices on the BE chips will be closer to the regular Brisbane.

holymuchos · Post by **holymuchos** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:14 pm

i was definitely planning on using a nvidia 7-series video card, so that's covered. thanks for the info... i will definitely start looking through reviews from real customers!!

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:30 pm

i was definitely planning on using a nvidia 7-series video card

The 7900s and up are fine, but if you were going to pick up a 7600 or lesser, you'd be better off with a 8-series or HD 2000-series video card.

Unless you already own it, then, you know, save your money for buying hot purplez and shit.

holymuchos · Post by **holymuchos** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:46 pm

I had an x800xl 256mb agp in my old rig. what do you think would be a logical next step (at least as good as the x800xl). i'm not going to run vista, so dx10 is of no concern at the moment. wow will most likely be the only gaming i will do.

prod · Post by **prod** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:37 pm

Actually for the heavy photoshop work, I think you would appreciate the higher performance of an intel system. The lower end core2 cpus are almost as energy efficient as amd, and will still outperform them. Not to mention the price reduction on quad cores will push all pricing lower now.
As for video card, the 7900gs is a good buy for midrange. I still think the drivers are more solid than ati. Pretty much every current motherboard will have raid options.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:48 am

[quote]Q: Why is AMD dropping the 64? What is the significance?
A: AMD pioneered simultaneous 64/32-bit x86 processor technology. Now that 64-bit processing is ubiquitous and AMD is recognized for its leadership in bringing this technology to the world, maintaining a â€œ64â€

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:35 am

CPU: Athlon X2 4000 (Brisbane) -$70 This chip is cheaper and faster than anything Intel has to offer in this segment (even after tomorrow's Intel price cuts).

Mobo: MSI K9A2 Neo-2 Digital - $80 Full-size ATX board with integrated video. The AMD chipset is more efficient than the nForce stuff. You could even try the integrated video before purchasing an add-in card. It might be enough for your needs.

OS: Win XP-64 if you haven't got XP-32 yet. Photoshop can take advantage of a lot of RAM, and XP-32 can only recognize 3GB

RAM: 4 x 1GB DDR2-800 if you get XP-64 or 2 x 1GB for XP-32

prod · Post by **prod** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:14 am

jackylman wrote: Lots of people would disagree with your assertion that nVidia drivers are more stable than ATI's (esp. people with GeForce 8-series cards and Windows Vista). Both have their share of issues and pros/cons. I'll leave it at that.

From personal experience and reading stories of others, ati drivers have been more unreliable and less compatible for the last 10 years I have been building systems. Some new games are not supported for a long time, then support for older games are "broken" with new driver sets. Graphical glitches are also common. If you do a search this is often due to ati drivers, while I have never had the problem with nvidia.
Anyone who wants a stable, well performing system will stay away from vista as well, no matter what video card they buy.

For a gamer on a budget, it is a good buy. However, unless he can find a great deal on a passively-cooled model, I don't think it makes sense to buy old technology in this case. A passively-cooled Radeon 2600XT would fit better, esp. if he's going to do any video playback.

The 7900GS is a much better card than the 2600XT and will outperform it in just about everything. DX10 is a non-issue and Im guessing it will be for a couple more years. Both ATI and nvidia have included good video playback support for a while now, and while ati does have the edge there, both will handle playback quite well.

The only reason I mention an intel platform is because the thread poster wants good photoshop performance. AMD has been the price leader, but intel has just dropped prices more this week and is a great choice right now. They do use more power in general, but throttle down very well when the performance is not required. To me that is what this user is asking for.

holymuchos · Post by **holymuchos** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:27 am

i think i'm set on the 7900gs. i have had a bunch of problems with my ati drivers in my last rig...and don't want a repeat.

i was originally looking into amd due to their efficiency, lower wattage, and ultimately lower price. i live where daily temps in my house (in summer) are around 80F. i was looking for efficient chips so i wouldn't have to have a turbojet cooling it.

to prod: do you mean to say that intel chips are better for photoshop??

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:47 pm

A 7600GS would suit your intended use imo and produce less heat as well.
Both intel and amd processors are competitive at this moment. Until recently amd had a slight edge in efficiency and price but since the last intel stepping (they reduced idle power) and price cuts it is a tough call.
I would avoid the nvidia motherboards, they consume 15+ watts more then their competitors. Intel`s p965 is frugal, p35 less so and amd`s 3200 is somewhere in between. If you go for an amd platform you can choose between the former and the 690 which is the champion when it comes to efficiency. It`s intergrated graphics will be disabled once you put in the 7600/7900.

accord1999 · Post by **accord1999** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:04 pm

holymuchos wrote: to prod: do you mean to say that intel chips are better for photoshop??

The Pentium E2160 should exceed a 2.1GHz Brisbane in Photoshop:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0

and also has excellent power dissipation:
http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/385/ ... /page5.php

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:08 am

accord1999 wrote:The Pentium E2160 should exceed a 2.1GHz Brisbane in Photoshop:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0

Hmm. It doesn't show a 2.1GHz Brisbane in this graph, only a 1.9GHz (X2 3600). Furthermore, if you're going to compare an AMD processor to the E2160, it should be priced equivalently. The 2.3GHz Brisbane is a little bit less expensive and the 2.5GHz 4800 is a little bit more. Those would be much better comparison points.

accord1999 · Post by **accord1999** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:39 am

jackylman wrote: Hmm. It doesn't show a 2.1GHz Brisbane in this graph, only a 1.9GHz (X2 3600). Furthermore, if you're going to compare an AMD processor to the E2160, it should be priced equivalently. The 2.3GHz Brisbane is a little bit less expensive and the 2.5GHz 4800 is a little bit more. Those would be much better comparison points.

It also shows a result for 2GHz 3800+ Windsor, and therefore even with linear scaling the X2 won't be able to match the E2160 at Photoshop at only 2.1GHz. With the recent price drop, the E2160 is now going for $87 at Mwave, a couple $ less than the 4400+ but with better power consumption.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:34 pm

accord1999 wrote:
jackylman wrote: Hmm. It doesn't show a 2.1GHz Brisbane in this graph, only a 1.9GHz (X2 3600). Furthermore, if you're going to compare an AMD processor to the E2160, it should be priced equivalently. The 2.3GHz Brisbane is a little bit less expensive and the 2.5GHz 4800 is a little bit more. Those would be much better comparison points.
It also shows a result for 2GHz 3800+ Windsor, and therefore even with linear scaling the X2 won't be able to match the E2160 at Photoshop at only 2.1GHz. With the recent price drop, the E2160 is now going for $87 at Mwave, a couple $ less than the 4400+ but with better power consumption.

Yeah...but the 3600 Brisbanes are down around $50 and there's good mobos below $75-and you don't need that push pin stuff on the heatsink.

The Brisbane 3600 can still run quite cool with a mild overclock. Set up under Crystal CPU ID it's range from OC to underclock/undervolt is pretty sweet.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:43 pm

I'd like to see a head to head with the BE 2300 vs the 3600 X2. I'm aware of the 3600 undervolting to 0.8 and have seen overclocks claimed at 2.8 ghz.
At these extremes....is power consumption,heat equal? While the BE chip starts out "undervolted" it's a plus on a MOBO that can't undervolt....but no Mobo I know about can go under 0.8 v and I've never heard that ther BE's could even run on less

accord1999 · Post by **accord1999** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:59 pm

Mwave has the 3600+ at $61.50 and the E2140 at $69. There are plenty of cheap Socket 775 motherboards in the same price range. They have inferior integrated graphics but since the OP is planning to use a discrete video card, it doesn't matter.

holymuchos · Post by **holymuchos** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:36 pm

alrighty, looks like I've settled on the 3600+ with the gigabyte MA69G. seems that the 3600+ will be pretty good for whatever I want to do with it.

since the 3600+ was so ridiculously cheap, it will be easier on the checkbook (and my sanity) to upgrade down the road if need be.