I have spent a small fortune playing around with quiet components. I have spent about £200+ to make my PC more or less inaudible sitting in front of it during the day. I have to concentrate to hear it..
So my question to you is how much would you pay extra for a PC that is inaudible/hardly hear at 1 meter away from the start?
How much extra would you pay for an Inaudible PC?
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ez2remember
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How much extra would you pay for an Inaudible PC?
Last edited by ez2remember on Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Mark Larson
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I think it depends a lot on how expensive the computer is, what it will be used for, and where it is placed. Obviously you'll be willing to spend more for a living room PC or a sound studio PC than a webserver in the basement. I have a PII 300MHz. It didn't cost me a lot to make it very quiet/almost inaudible, and I'm willing to use more money to make my new computer quiet (P4 2GHz).
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Ralf Hutter
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Can't you just sort of "build-in" quietness as your speccing out your system? Most quiet hardware costs the same as, or little more than a noisier version of the same thing. The only things I can think of that really cost more for quiet versions would be a vidcard and *maybe* a PSU.
If you're talking about replacing components in an existing system, that's a whole nother deal. If you're talking about having to replace drives, fans, heatsinks and PSUs, as well as doing something about vidcard cooling, you could easily spend over $300 without even blinking. It depends on how quiet you want it and how noisy it was to begin with.
If you're talking about replacing components in an existing system, that's a whole nother deal. If you're talking about having to replace drives, fans, heatsinks and PSUs, as well as doing something about vidcard cooling, you could easily spend over $300 without even blinking. It depends on how quiet you want it and how noisy it was to begin with.
I spent some extra ordinary amount of money on quieting my system down. Now in retrospect, it would cost about $300 more for brand new system vs changing parts... (changing part involved me $600-700 at least before selling the unused parts back)
Thus, my vote goes to about $300 range. Frankly, most noticeble change happens around at $100-200 range... rest are somewhat marginal.
Thus, my vote goes to about $300 range. Frankly, most noticeble change happens around at $100-200 range... rest are somewhat marginal.
I spent $150US on getting mine silent so I had to pick $200.
My water cooling setup cost me about $120. I spent another $30 aquiring three virtually silent fans.
My PPro firewall only cost $10 to shut up. Just changed the PSU fan and suspended the HDD.
Quite is always an important consideration when buying new parts. My video card had to have mounting holes to allow for water cooling, my HDD had to be quiet (Maxtor LFB drive) and my PSU needed to be quiet.
Next time I upgrade, I will still look for silence vs performance. I am willing to pay the same with less performance for a quieter part.
15,000RPM IDE HDD? ACK!
My water cooling setup cost me about $120. I spent another $30 aquiring three virtually silent fans.
My PPro firewall only cost $10 to shut up. Just changed the PSU fan and suspended the HDD.
Quite is always an important consideration when buying new parts. My video card had to have mounting holes to allow for water cooling, my HDD had to be quiet (Maxtor LFB drive) and my PSU needed to be quiet.
Next time I upgrade, I will still look for silence vs performance. I am willing to pay the same with less performance for a quieter part.
15,000RPM IDE HDD? ACK!
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jamoore9
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I think I see what your driving at: incorporating silence into the system design (like I'm trying to do), but not for yourself. Of course you don't want to know how much more WE would SPEND for a quiet PC, but how much WE think a quiet PC is WORTH compared to a comparable non-quiet model.
Think of it this way: I'm the typical shlup and I want a new computer. I, a) Go to my local Gateway store, Gateway.com, or Dell.com and order; I b) go to a local Best Buy/Circuit City electronics store and pay out the kazoo for a Compaq/HP nightmare that will never end until the box freezes/crashes/explodes/melts (as they always do); c) go to a local or internet based independent group of nerds that builds and sells PCs; or d) buy a bunch of parts and build one for myself.
We're all pretty much D-people, so we wouldn't really pay extra for a PC, but we frequently pay extra for parts (fans, PSUs, heatpipes, watercooling, etc). However, if we were A-B-or-C-people, then what would we think a quieter computer is worth compared to standard fare?
Personally, I responded $200. The machine I built/am building is worth about $1,900 if I got it from Dell or Gateway, but its quieter. If I were willing to shell out that much in the first place, then then promise of peace and quiet is easily worth the extra 200 beans. But I know people who are totally fed up with computer noise, who would easily pay an extra $400. I think those are the people you're after.
Think of it this way: I'm the typical shlup and I want a new computer. I, a) Go to my local Gateway store, Gateway.com, or Dell.com and order; I b) go to a local Best Buy/Circuit City electronics store and pay out the kazoo for a Compaq/HP nightmare that will never end until the box freezes/crashes/explodes/melts (as they always do); c) go to a local or internet based independent group of nerds that builds and sells PCs; or d) buy a bunch of parts and build one for myself.
We're all pretty much D-people, so we wouldn't really pay extra for a PC, but we frequently pay extra for parts (fans, PSUs, heatpipes, watercooling, etc). However, if we were A-B-or-C-people, then what would we think a quieter computer is worth compared to standard fare?
Personally, I responded $200. The machine I built/am building is worth about $1,900 if I got it from Dell or Gateway, but its quieter. If I were willing to shell out that much in the first place, then then promise of peace and quiet is easily worth the extra 200 beans. But I know people who are totally fed up with computer noise, who would easily pay an extra $400. I think those are the people you're after.
I responded $100 dollars because that is about as much as it would cost to get to that silence level on a budget, less if you are building your own system.
4 L1A's - 20 dollars
1 Molex Y adapter - 4 dollars
1 80mm CPU cooler - 10 dollars
1 Verax 300w PSU W fanspeed control - 30 dollars
1 sheet of shipping acoustic foam - 10 dollars
Shipping - 20 dollars
1 HDD box from spare parts - priceless
Problem solved for most computers. If you build your own, it doesn't necessarily have to cost anything extra.
Of course, this is for a $500 range homebuilt PC. If we were talking a 1,500 dollar store bought PC, I'd put it at 200+, depending on how loud a comparison machine we are talking (and how hard it would be to quiet).
4 L1A's - 20 dollars
1 Molex Y adapter - 4 dollars
1 80mm CPU cooler - 10 dollars
1 Verax 300w PSU W fanspeed control - 30 dollars
1 sheet of shipping acoustic foam - 10 dollars
Shipping - 20 dollars
1 HDD box from spare parts - priceless
Problem solved for most computers. If you build your own, it doesn't necessarily have to cost anything extra.
Of course, this is for a $500 range homebuilt PC. If we were talking a 1,500 dollar store bought PC, I'd put it at 200+, depending on how loud a comparison machine we are talking (and how hard it would be to quiet).
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MikeC
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The responses to this poll can probably be grouped along two scales:
1) as a proportion of total system value -- ie you might spend only $100 max to quiet a $500 system but be willing to sink $500 on a $5000 system. (seishino's response)
2) as a function of the value an individual places on his time. If you consider this a hobby unrelated to work or income, you are probably willing to put a lot of time but little $ into it. But if you are a professional or working person wanting to silence your system for work-related reasons -- productivity, environmental "friendliness" to workers and clients, speech recognition, music recording, whatever -- then time is probably much more valuable and you don't mind spending a lot more money if that gets the results you seek.
The other thing to consider is repeatability and ruggedness. If we're dealing with our own machines, home machines, machines we have direct control and responsibility for, it's easy to rig up custom solutions -- like placing the HDD loose on soft foam in the front bottom of a case. By now, people know this is the quickest & simplest way to silence a Barracdua drive or similar. If the PC has to be moved or whatever, we know we have to secure the drive first, or do something with the rubber-band suspended fans...
BUT this is far from acceptable in any machine you would buy from a store.
Surviving shipping is an incredibly high priority for system builders. Why do you think Zalman developed the 5000 series of HS that BOLT into place? Why does no system integrator use heavy HS like the Swiftech, big thermalrights or the flower Zalmans?
It's obvious that system integrators generally have a bigger challenge than we as home modders do. (One reason I am so impressed with the ARM Stealth system I reviewed by the way -- not quite a SPCR reference, but damn close & they ship 'em daily!)
Whew, talk about digressions!
My point is simple, really: the value of a quiet machine varies for people & I am not surprised if one person says they'll spend only $50 more when another say they'll spend $500 more.
1) as a proportion of total system value -- ie you might spend only $100 max to quiet a $500 system but be willing to sink $500 on a $5000 system. (seishino's response)
2) as a function of the value an individual places on his time. If you consider this a hobby unrelated to work or income, you are probably willing to put a lot of time but little $ into it. But if you are a professional or working person wanting to silence your system for work-related reasons -- productivity, environmental "friendliness" to workers and clients, speech recognition, music recording, whatever -- then time is probably much more valuable and you don't mind spending a lot more money if that gets the results you seek.
The other thing to consider is repeatability and ruggedness. If we're dealing with our own machines, home machines, machines we have direct control and responsibility for, it's easy to rig up custom solutions -- like placing the HDD loose on soft foam in the front bottom of a case. By now, people know this is the quickest & simplest way to silence a Barracdua drive or similar. If the PC has to be moved or whatever, we know we have to secure the drive first, or do something with the rubber-band suspended fans...
BUT this is far from acceptable in any machine you would buy from a store. Surviving shipping is an incredibly high priority for system builders. Why do you think Zalman developed the 5000 series of HS that BOLT into place? Why does no system integrator use heavy HS like the Swiftech, big thermalrights or the flower Zalmans?
It's obvious that system integrators generally have a bigger challenge than we as home modders do. (One reason I am so impressed with the ARM Stealth system I reviewed by the way -- not quite a SPCR reference, but damn close & they ship 'em daily!)
Whew, talk about digressions!
My point is simple, really: the value of a quiet machine varies for people & I am not surprised if one person says they'll spend only $50 more when another say they'll spend $500 more.-
aristide1
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Ralf Hutter
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I don't know if they have something similar back in NY, but out here in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia there's a law that says you can be ticketed if your car (or car stereo) can be heard from over 50 feet away. Look into that, maybe you can get the little putz busted.aristide1 wrote:When I can't see spending much more than $200 for a quieter pc, especially when my teenage neighbor with the $2000 wheels and the $2000 stereo in a $500 Civic drive buy and make all the windows rattle.
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ez2remember
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Very true, it just goes to show there is a market out there for quiet computers. People I know all get irretated by the noise of their computers but they just don't know where to start. They think nothing can be done about it and put up with it. They think the only option is to buy another computer and hope it would be quieter.MikeC wrote: Whew, talk about digressions!
Come to SPCR and realise how quiet computers can go, LOL. This website is invaluable, I am suprised its free. 
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Ralf Hutter
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aristide1
They are like flies on dog crap, they are everywhere. NY cops need a sound level meter to take a reading I believe, without it they can't do a thing. They are totally not concerned with such issues. Sigh.How about getting a $39 restraining order?
I wasn't trying to digress, only to put things in perspective.
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jamoore9
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trifin wrote:well i went the whole way and picked the $500 option...
why ?
because id pay that much, maybe more, for a silent pc. ie no fans, silent hd (solid state?), rubber mounted true-x cdrom etc in a sinlge unit (ie not water)...
would anyone else ?
Well, when you put it that way, I would! Absolutely!
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crisspy
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I think you have to imagine that "average Mr. Shmuck" going out to buy a PC. As far as I can tell, $1500 is the ballpark price for a system, including the printer and a mediocer monitor, and as much (very cheap) flashy crap as they can throw in to shine-up the offering. He doesn't realise that it will likely be on 24/7, especially if he has kids, and that his wife will want it off overnight if she can hear it (limiting his hidden porno downloads, when he later learns how) I know my "Mr. S" is by far not the only kind of client, but I think he's the customer who will waver most over price, since most everyone else is already aware enough to be willing to spend a little extra given the option. Either way, I think he is a fair telltale: if you can sell to him you'll sell to almost anyone.
So... Mr. S is has the choice to walk out that door for $1500. If you can tout the silent version as superior quality design, more reliable, etc., then I think you stand a chance at getting $1700. If it's only quieter, then $1600 might be a stretch, depending on the intended useagle and how good the salesman is. I think that it's harder to sell less of something (ie. quiet) than if you are selling more of something (quality). In any event, it will also be hard to demonstrate how great a quiet PC is in a normal noisy retail environment. Mr. S will probably need to see something different too, like a big glossy poster of the inside showing the 'quality' of the details, and a fancier paint job on the outside.
As for me, a homebuilder, the first $200 should amply cover the first 90% of the gains, whereas that last %10 is a hard, expensive undertaking. Heck, even just the first $100 gets the Panaflos, Barracuda vs. noisier drive, and a good quiet HSF. But $300 is what it would cost if you add in a day's (cheap) labour to do the build, say for someone who wanted their existing PC revamped to shush the noise. Of course, it's always easier to spend more.
I know my "Mr. S" is by far not the only kind of client, but I think he's the customer who will waver most over price, since most everyone else is already aware enough to be willing to spend a little extra given the option. Either way, I think he is a fair telltale: if you can sell to him you'll sell to almost anyone.So... Mr. S is has the choice to walk out that door for $1500. If you can tout the silent version as superior quality design, more reliable, etc., then I think you stand a chance at getting $1700. If it's only quieter, then $1600 might be a stretch, depending on the intended useagle and how good the salesman is. I think that it's harder to sell less of something (ie. quiet) than if you are selling more of something (quality). In any event, it will also be hard to demonstrate how great a quiet PC is in a normal noisy retail environment. Mr. S will probably need to see something different too, like a big glossy poster of the inside showing the 'quality' of the details, and a fancier paint job on the outside.
As for me, a homebuilder, the first $200 should amply cover the first 90% of the gains, whereas that last %10 is a hard, expensive undertaking. Heck, even just the first $100 gets the Panaflos, Barracuda vs. noisier drive, and a good quiet HSF. But $300 is what it would cost if you add in a day's (cheap) labour to do the build, say for someone who wanted their existing PC revamped to shush the noise. Of course, it's always easier to spend more.
I've paid nothing for one actually. I'm typing this now on a completly silent computer ( I'm cheating 
The HD is in suspend mode )
I managed to get $350 for my old noisy computer. I used this money to buy a EPIA M 6000 board (fanless) and a DC-DC 55W PSU (fanless). I also bought 128 MB ram which I swapped with the 256 MB in the computer I sold. I scavanged a 3 GB harddrive from an old laptop. (It's not large but it'll do for now...)
I'm still not used to the computer making no noise
It's not perfect though. I'm running Linux so I have a few device driver issues. USB 2.0 doesn't work yet and I'm forced to use crappy VESA graphics since no open source video driver has been released yet. (I'm not running a supported Linux distribution so the VIA binary only drivers don't work)
I'll probably end up spending around $250 on a usb CDRW/DVD with an external (fanless) powersupply
The HD is in suspend mode )I managed to get $350 for my old noisy computer. I used this money to buy a EPIA M 6000 board (fanless) and a DC-DC 55W PSU (fanless). I also bought 128 MB ram which I swapped with the 256 MB in the computer I sold. I scavanged a 3 GB harddrive from an old laptop. (It's not large but it'll do for now...)
I'm still not used to the computer making no noise
It's not perfect though. I'm running Linux so I have a few device driver issues. USB 2.0 doesn't work yet and I'm forced to use crappy VESA graphics since no open source video driver has been released yet. (I'm not running a supported Linux distribution so the VIA binary only drivers don't work)
I'll probably end up spending around $250 on a usb CDRW/DVD with an external (fanless) powersupply
$500 EUR easily, if the computer was professionally done. It would need to house premium components (HDs, CPU and GPU) and be less than 20 dBA at below 1 meter. Components should stay well below specified temperature limits.
Also, no buckets, hanging water cooling radiators, external fans, ugly blowholes, etc. It needs to look and work professionally. Just one power switch on and it works without a noise.
I have spent more than 5 years building several 'silent' PCs, some more successful than others. I have not yet been able to build a totally silent PC that houses the components I want.
I can build one out of certain type of components, but building a sufficiently silent PC out of hot and fast performing components has provent to be quite a task for me personally.
So, yes I'd gladly pay 500 EUR extra for a professionally silenced / coold computer.
regards,
Halcyon
PS THere's definitely a market for this type of service, but it needs to be professional. It's easy to build one silent computer, but to build 1000 of them and have less than 1% of them fail. That's hard.
Also, no buckets, hanging water cooling radiators, external fans, ugly blowholes, etc. It needs to look and work professionally. Just one power switch on and it works without a noise.
I have spent more than 5 years building several 'silent' PCs, some more successful than others. I have not yet been able to build a totally silent PC that houses the components I want.
I can build one out of certain type of components, but building a sufficiently silent PC out of hot and fast performing components has provent to be quite a task for me personally.
So, yes I'd gladly pay 500 EUR extra for a professionally silenced / coold computer.
regards,
Halcyon
PS THere's definitely a market for this type of service, but it needs to be professional. It's easy to build one silent computer, but to build 1000 of them and have less than 1% of them fail. That's hard.
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Liquidated
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I put $200 down because well lets see...
spent 100 after shipping on isolators and foam
spent 40 on new fans to replace the adda's that came stock with my case -all in the name of silence.
prolly spent another 40 or so on all the nibbly bits like goop and modders mesh sleeving etc. not to mention another 10 or so on the slk900u instead of the 800 just so the fan could spin that much slower.
not counting the case though but the globalwin I fell in love with for more than just the 120mm fans. it was on par with a lian li 60x I'd have gotten regardless so maybe all a wash.
the rest of it all really comes down to reading up and picking out the right components. The sparkle psu is a lot cheaper than most other "silent" psu's and seems to hold it's own against them and I found out about it from here.
of course how much this has cost my friends is scary. they are all now getting foam to install at least on the outer side panel as well as an army of little pvc blue chessmen looking things.
Cheers!
-liq
spent 100 after shipping on isolators and foam
spent 40 on new fans to replace the adda's that came stock with my case -all in the name of silence.
prolly spent another 40 or so on all the nibbly bits like goop and modders mesh sleeving etc. not to mention another 10 or so on the slk900u instead of the 800 just so the fan could spin that much slower.
not counting the case though but the globalwin I fell in love with for more than just the 120mm fans. it was on par with a lian li 60x I'd have gotten regardless so maybe all a wash.
the rest of it all really comes down to reading up and picking out the right components. The sparkle psu is a lot cheaper than most other "silent" psu's and seems to hold it's own against them and I found out about it from here.
of course how much this has cost my friends is scary. they are all now getting foam to install at least on the outer side panel as well as an army of little pvc blue chessmen looking things.
Cheers!
-liq
~200$
I'd say I've spent well under 100$ getting my shuttle boxes fairly quiet. IF you count all the stupid stuff I've tried because I didn't know better, AND the difference in costs when I changed video cards and such, then it's closer to 200$. I'm obviously not done yet due to the fact that my video cards are likely going to be swapped soon. But 200$ seems about right.
Some of the cost seems trivial though. How much would it cost really? I would guess no more than 20$ for EAR isolation grommets on the drives and 5$ for the fan mounts. Add in perhaps 10$ more for the difference between an ok fan and a quiet one and we're still not very far into it. I would guess most of the cost gets eaten in the power supply choice. In my case the main fan is the CPU fan, but you can probably add another 20$ there too. So major cost is probably the video card/CPU cooler/power supply. The miscellaneous stuff for mounting can't really amount to more than 50$.
Some of the cost seems trivial though. How much would it cost really? I would guess no more than 20$ for EAR isolation grommets on the drives and 5$ for the fan mounts. Add in perhaps 10$ more for the difference between an ok fan and a quiet one and we're still not very far into it. I would guess most of the cost gets eaten in the power supply choice. In my case the main fan is the CPU fan, but you can probably add another 20$ there too. So major cost is probably the video card/CPU cooler/power supply. The miscellaneous stuff for mounting can't really amount to more than 50$.
I have already spent more then $500, and I'm not satisfied yet. (I can still hear it from 5m away. The Eheim 1048 pump rattles noisily. 
)
Special heatsinks and thermal compound (Z 6000, Z NB-17, Z GPU sink, etc), say $100
Fans, say $150
MDF board, hinges and screws, paint, dampening mats, say $100
Waterblocks, radiators, water pump, say $250
Work hours, say 100.
sum, around $600 so far, the last 1½ year. But it's fun too.
)Special heatsinks and thermal compound (Z 6000, Z NB-17, Z GPU sink, etc), say $100
Fans, say $150
MDF board, hinges and screws, paint, dampening mats, say $100
Waterblocks, radiators, water pump, say $250
Work hours, say 100.
sum, around $600 so far, the last 1½ year. But it's fun too.
I voted 500 easy. Why? Cos after I bought my rig, see my sig, and it made noise that actually reminded of a vw motor! And the noise actually made me mad! So I searched high and low lucky for me, Fabool a fellow Polycounter from Polycount forums gave me the finger to come here. I have owned computers now for almost 20 yrs but learned more about how they operate and function in the last few months here than ever before. As my sig states my current system, well gonna add the panaflos tonight, but currently I have a Adda high speed, not sure the db, on my hs and I can barely hear the pc at all. Even my wife with superb hearing, what female does not eh?, cannot detect it. So for me my quest is almost over for now. How I wish I could silence my work pc {:.
But hey any hobby costs money, to me I log everything, movies, auto home maintenance insurance work misc letters to Congress, and of course Gaming into my pc. Not to mention web surfing for info. And it is worth it to me. I had no idea I would ever get my pc this cool though and silent at once!
Noise sucks and come to think of it I have not even been gaming with sound on for 6 months! Nothing is better than everyone sleeping early and me venting wrath out on bots before work!
PC mfg are a lot like politicians, teachers and preachers, they really don’t care about people, it is the bottom line, money and if money comes first people come last, so that is why pc mfg throw in huge whiny fans to cool components they should passively cool amap.
I have spent about 98.00 so far on just panaflo’s, frt included and adaptors and earplugs for mounting. Still may try case liner and maybe a cuda hd and a new psu. But for now I am happy, now must save for a Gameboy Advance.
Worst part is I just saw some cheap fans for sale in the dealer vendor forums where I could have spent just about 20 bucks instead of 98 us dollars but hey it is only money right?
But hey any hobby costs money, to me I log everything, movies, auto home maintenance insurance work misc letters to Congress, and of course Gaming into my pc. Not to mention web surfing for info. And it is worth it to me. I had no idea I would ever get my pc this cool though and silent at once!
Noise sucks and come to think of it I have not even been gaming with sound on for 6 months! Nothing is better than everyone sleeping early and me venting wrath out on bots before work!
PC mfg are a lot like politicians, teachers and preachers, they really don’t care about people, it is the bottom line, money and if money comes first people come last, so that is why pc mfg throw in huge whiny fans to cool components they should passively cool amap.
I have spent about 98.00 so far on just panaflo’s, frt included and adaptors and earplugs for mounting. Still may try case liner and maybe a cuda hd and a new psu. But for now I am happy, now must save for a Gameboy Advance.
Worst part is I just saw some cheap fans for sale in the dealer vendor forums where I could have spent just about 20 bucks instead of 98 us dollars but hey it is only money right?
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thebiggreenone
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