Hi,
first of all I would like to apologize for such a noob 1st post, I know this has been replied many times but I can't manage to put together all the info I've gathered from the here and the internet.
So there are fanless motherboards, fanless PSUs, fanless CPUs, fanless graphic cards, fanless cases arround. But can all this fonction together?
I've seen this question answered by :
1. no
2. Yes, If you buy a epia or a transmeta powered portable.
So why do I ask again? It's because I am ready to compromise on speed (underclocking) a lot which didin't seem to be the case of other people.
I am the owner of an 1.2 ghz athlon with a matrox g400 graphic card. I don't need much speed than my current system, but definatly much more silence. I create some music (need for a faster CPU than epia M), surf the net, watch divx, play mp3s and don't play any games.
If I keep my case open can I have a tremendously underclocked CPU up to 1 ghz (p4, barton?) passively cooled by an heatsink (which model ? ) working along with a fanless motherboard (which model for underclocking facility), a fanless entry level graphic card (or my old g400) ,no fans in the case, and a fanless Prosilence PSU?
I don't care about the HD noise because I have a very silent suspended seagate which complety stops after a few minutes away from my computer.
The reason I want a fanless system is for simplicity and to be sure it will always stay silent in the future. And to be able to have a 0dB pc when I am away, and the HD is off.
If your positive it won't work, would it be any better with a very silent fan cooled PSU like the SilenX one?
Thanks for reading and any input, Have a nice day.
ernandox
Fanless PC ? Ready to compromise on speed, size & aesthe
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
There is no reason why it wouldn't work. Now, make sure you choose that passive CPU cooler correctly, because as far as I know, I haven't seen a passive CPU cooler that will cool your CPU to adequate temperatures.
About the Fanless psu, video card, motherboard, is acceptable.
I don't personally think a passive cooled system has to be a 900mhz P3. As loon as you have the money and the will, you can achieve it. However, I will recommend at least one fan in the back of the case taking the heat out.
Here is the check list:
fanless motherboards: Add NB Heatsink.
fanless PSUs: SilentMaxx ProSilence
fanless CPUs: ?
fanless graphic cards: ATI Radeon 9600
fanless cases: ?
Can you informed of the fanless CPU Cooler?
my .02
About the Fanless psu, video card, motherboard, is acceptable.
I don't personally think a passive cooled system has to be a 900mhz P3. As loon as you have the money and the will, you can achieve it. However, I will recommend at least one fan in the back of the case taking the heat out.
Here is the check list:
fanless motherboards: Add NB Heatsink.
fanless PSUs: SilentMaxx ProSilence
fanless CPUs: ?
fanless graphic cards: ATI Radeon 9600
fanless cases: ?
Can you informed of the fanless CPU Cooler?
my .02
Try looking <a href="http://www.deltatronic.info/index.html">here</a>.
It's all in German, but it looks as though you can get some fairly high end hardware in there....
It's all in German, but it looks as though you can get some fairly high end hardware in there....
I've never actually built such a system, but I've got a fair amount of experience all around what you want. I've built several Pentium III rigs, and based on the heat generation I've observed you should be able to run the 1GHz Coppermine version with a passive (albeit VERY BIG) heatsink. With a P3 Tualatin underclocked to run at 1GHz, this should be unquestioningly doable, as the Tualatin at 1GHz should be substantially cooler than the Coppermine. You might also look into the Tualatin versions of the Celeron, perhaps underclocked to 1GHz, as they may run even a bit cooler -- though for music encoding you'd probably benefit from the P3 over a Celeron at the same speed. I'd recommend more recent CPUs but don't have as much experience with them, and what I have done seems too hot to run with passive heatsinking.
Now, many may find this a completely whacked recommendation, but I would also look into building a passively cooled DUAL P3 motherboard! This would allow you to use all the possibilities mentioned above, but would also give you a system that felt exceptionally fast and responsive! It would be very close to a no-compromise fanless rig. If you go this route, make sure you run either Win2K (or XP) or Linux so you benefit from both processors. You'll really see the benefits of this approach if you typically run multiple things at once, such as music encoding while checking email and surfing the web.
In terms of PSU, SilentPCReview has reviewed at least one fanless PSU, so you ought to be okay there, and you already have your hard drive situation addressed.
Regarding case, you might want to take the same approach as the now-defunct Mac G4 Cube by using the heat to stimulate airflow. I would suggest cutting vents in the top of your case as well as at the BOTTOM of each side. In theory, this would cause the hot air to rise out the top vents and pull cooler air in the bottom vents to take its place. I know it works on the G4 Cube, as I have one.
Good luck to you!
Now, many may find this a completely whacked recommendation, but I would also look into building a passively cooled DUAL P3 motherboard! This would allow you to use all the possibilities mentioned above, but would also give you a system that felt exceptionally fast and responsive! It would be very close to a no-compromise fanless rig. If you go this route, make sure you run either Win2K (or XP) or Linux so you benefit from both processors. You'll really see the benefits of this approach if you typically run multiple things at once, such as music encoding while checking email and surfing the web.
In terms of PSU, SilentPCReview has reviewed at least one fanless PSU, so you ought to be okay there, and you already have your hard drive situation addressed.
Regarding case, you might want to take the same approach as the now-defunct Mac G4 Cube by using the heat to stimulate airflow. I would suggest cutting vents in the top of your case as well as at the BOTTOM of each side. In theory, this would cause the hot air to rise out the top vents and pull cooler air in the bottom vents to take its place. I know it works on the G4 Cube, as I have one.
Good luck to you!
Do a search for passive in the Anandtech forums. There are several people there who have done passive Tualatin cooling. none that I remember did a passive system though.
I think you are OK if you just undervolt as much as you can with a celeron. They are all so cheap now, that you might as well get a 1.2 or 1.3. Undervolt as much as possible at stock and see where it goes.
Another thing is to get the smallest board that fits your features, as integrated as possible. A lot of small boards are designed to go in cramped quarters and dissipate less heat. And Integrated chips on motherboards always produce less heat than discrete components. Most MicroATX motherboards have built in video and sound. Many have network and other features. Get something that has everything you need. If you can find a Flex ATX board, it will burn even less power, but with obvious downsides.
The trick is finding an integrated board with voltage control. These features usually aren't combined, because integrated boards are mostly for OEM's that run everything stock. You can find them though. Make sure to get one with Vcore adjustment, the more the better. I would recommend a i815e board for best stability and performance.
This thread would be a good one to look though, if you haven't already.
If you don't have voltage control on the motherboard, it is possible to change it by wiring pins together on the CPU or socket, but that's obviously more technical and risky.
Undervolting is done by setting the CPU at the speed that you think you need, then lower the voltage one notch. Run Prime95 for a few hours (3-5 is usually enough), keep using the computer at the same time to add to the load. If it passes, repeat at a lower voltage. When it fails, you can't run stably at that voltage. Bump it back up a notch, and leave it there.
If you can work the heatsink to be outside the case, it might help. I might try a case cutout to acheive that. Otherwise, the CPU heat will gradually raise the case temps on you.
Natural convective venting sounds like a good idea too, but obviously there are heat dissipation limits that way. Depends on what kind of speed you need.
Personally, I don't get bothered enough by a few slow fans. My big noise enemy is and always has been my fridge. I've got ideas about silencing that thing too, but I would need to build a house for that, and right now I'm poor and living in an apartment.
I think you are OK if you just undervolt as much as you can with a celeron. They are all so cheap now, that you might as well get a 1.2 or 1.3. Undervolt as much as possible at stock and see where it goes.
Another thing is to get the smallest board that fits your features, as integrated as possible. A lot of small boards are designed to go in cramped quarters and dissipate less heat. And Integrated chips on motherboards always produce less heat than discrete components. Most MicroATX motherboards have built in video and sound. Many have network and other features. Get something that has everything you need. If you can find a Flex ATX board, it will burn even less power, but with obvious downsides.
The trick is finding an integrated board with voltage control. These features usually aren't combined, because integrated boards are mostly for OEM's that run everything stock. You can find them though. Make sure to get one with Vcore adjustment, the more the better. I would recommend a i815e board for best stability and performance.
This thread would be a good one to look though, if you haven't already.
If you don't have voltage control on the motherboard, it is possible to change it by wiring pins together on the CPU or socket, but that's obviously more technical and risky.
Undervolting is done by setting the CPU at the speed that you think you need, then lower the voltage one notch. Run Prime95 for a few hours (3-5 is usually enough), keep using the computer at the same time to add to the load. If it passes, repeat at a lower voltage. When it fails, you can't run stably at that voltage. Bump it back up a notch, and leave it there.
If you can work the heatsink to be outside the case, it might help. I might try a case cutout to acheive that. Otherwise, the CPU heat will gradually raise the case temps on you.
Natural convective venting sounds like a good idea too, but obviously there are heat dissipation limits that way. Depends on what kind of speed you need.
Personally, I don't get bothered enough by a few slow fans. My big noise enemy is and always has been my fridge. I've got ideas about silencing that thing too, but I would need to build a house for that, and right now I'm poor and living in an apartment.
mrzed- I've got a good idea for you! Unplug the fridge and throw out anything that needs to be kept cold 
since you say aesthetics aren't important, try to have as much open space as possible- if there's not much restriction, just diffusion and convection will keep the air around your CPU cool enough (I hope)
since you say aesthetics aren't important, try to have as much open space as possible- if there's not much restriction, just diffusion and convection will keep the air around your CPU cool enough (I hope)
Thanks a lot guys!
Is this gonna work ?
ASUS A7V333
barton 2500+ highly undervolted/clocked
Zalman 6000cu without fan.
A guy managed to passive cool his p4 2.8 not underclocked (rated 4 vs 4+ for barton here) with no fan at all except the PSU one with a Zalmann 6500Cu.http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-118-2.htm
Don't let me do any thing wrong!
take care.
E.
Is this gonna work ?
ASUS A7V333
barton 2500+ highly undervolted/clocked
Zalman 6000cu without fan.
A guy managed to passive cool his p4 2.8 not underclocked (rated 4 vs 4+ for barton here) with no fan at all except the PSU one with a Zalmann 6500Cu.http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-118-2.htm
Don't let me do any thing wrong!
take care.
E.
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MikeC
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12285
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- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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We don't really believe that guy. That system has been discussed here before. There are just too many loose ends & questions about the results. That's what I recall of that discussion anyway. I am sure others will correct me if I am wrong...
Passive with a Barton & Zalman 6000cu? uh, no way. I have a sneaking feeling that you could put a godzilla HS on that & you still wouldn't be able to go passive. Any cpu more than 20W & passive becomes a mission impossible -- possible only with big bucks & lots of time. The question would be whether a barton would run so massively underclocked/volted. (1G??) There seemed to be limits to how slow processors could run when I last fooled with this extensively. But if you wanted to try passive I would go for a SLK900 at least. Maybe even something better... That Japanese 6" tall skyscraper HS -- Heatlane Zen -- unfortunately only fits P4s...
Passive with a Barton & Zalman 6000cu? uh, no way. I have a sneaking feeling that you could put a godzilla HS on that & you still wouldn't be able to go passive. Any cpu more than 20W & passive becomes a mission impossible -- possible only with big bucks & lots of time. The question would be whether a barton would run so massively underclocked/volted. (1G??) There seemed to be limits to how slow processors could run when I last fooled with this extensively. But if you wanted to try passive I would go for a SLK900 at least. Maybe even something better... That Japanese 6" tall skyscraper HS -- Heatlane Zen -- unfortunately only fits P4s...
Ok thanksa lot for the Input!
I've been doing some thinking and reading came up with a much cheaper solution:
I 'll keep my abit kt7, remove the fan and buy:
>Zalman ZMNB32J for the NortBridge : 8 euros
>An SLK900 without fan : 62 euros
>a 2000+ 0.13 microns @ 133*8 =1064mhz or less and arround 1.15V : 53 euros
Is that any better?
My Athlon 1200 is running @ 800/1.15V just now.
take care
E.
I've been doing some thinking and reading came up with a much cheaper solution:
I 'll keep my abit kt7, remove the fan and buy:
>Zalman ZMNB32J for the NortBridge : 8 euros
>An SLK900 without fan : 62 euros
>a 2000+ 0.13 microns @ 133*8 =1064mhz or less and arround 1.15V : 53 euros
Is that any better?
My Athlon 1200 is running @ 800/1.15V just now.
take care
E.
Last edited by ernandox on Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SometimesWarrior
- Patron of SPCR
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- Location: California, US
- Contact:
Actually, you can lower the noise from your fridge by stocking it with as much stuff as possible. My physics teacher, as part of his "spend less than $2 a month on power" plan, filled his fridge with jugs of water so that opening/closing the fridge wouldn't change the temperature much. After the fridge has had a day to cool off all the water, it will "turn itself on" much less often, and you might even be able to unplug it during the day.Zhentar wrote:mrzed- I've got a good idea for you! Unplug the fridge and throw out anything that needs to be kept cold
Back to the topic: let's see... 1.83GHz Barton @ 1.65V (68.5W max) --> 1.0GHz Barton @ 1.1V (16.6W max). That's assuming W is proportional to V^2 and to MHz^1. Does this computation make sense? Is it possible to do this to a Barton, or to a Tbred-B?
Okay, some random comments, stream-of-consciousness style...
First, you might also consider using some of the Panaflo 8cm 24cfm 21dBA fans (sorry, I always forget the model number of these little buggers! even though I have about 30 of 'em, but strangely I have the performance specs memorized). If you run these fans at 5V, which they handle nicely, inside your case they will be inaudible to all but the most sensitive ears, and even then you'll only hear them with your ear inches from the case. You can mount one of these on an Alpha PAL8045 heatsink (is that the one for the Athlon?) FANTASTIC HEATSINK. Then you have lots of options... duct the warmed air sucked from the heatsink out the side of the case... keep the convection concept (cool in bottom, warm out top) but "assist" it with perhaps a 5V Panaflo fan on the bottom (input) vents... many more.
Also, remember that your ability to run passive will depend to some degree on the temperature of the room in which the computer is located, so preferably try to place it in your coolest room.
Even stranger might be to place the computer next to a central air vent (if you have central air) such that the air can blow into the case if possible. If you have the good fortune of a floor-mounted vent, you might even use the convection approach and place the computer directly on the vent! If the vent is higher up the wall, perhaps build a shelf and locate the computer up there! You could even do something similar with a window air conditioner, such as placing the computer on a table directly in front of the window unit's air output. Admittedly I'm getting more and more extreme with these suggestions, but depending on what you've got available and how serious you are about going completely passive, these *might* be things to consider.
Anyway, not much continuity to this post, but maybe it stimulates some additional ideas for someone...
First, you might also consider using some of the Panaflo 8cm 24cfm 21dBA fans (sorry, I always forget the model number of these little buggers! even though I have about 30 of 'em, but strangely I have the performance specs memorized). If you run these fans at 5V, which they handle nicely, inside your case they will be inaudible to all but the most sensitive ears, and even then you'll only hear them with your ear inches from the case. You can mount one of these on an Alpha PAL8045 heatsink (is that the one for the Athlon?) FANTASTIC HEATSINK. Then you have lots of options... duct the warmed air sucked from the heatsink out the side of the case... keep the convection concept (cool in bottom, warm out top) but "assist" it with perhaps a 5V Panaflo fan on the bottom (input) vents... many more.
Also, remember that your ability to run passive will depend to some degree on the temperature of the room in which the computer is located, so preferably try to place it in your coolest room.
Even stranger might be to place the computer next to a central air vent (if you have central air) such that the air can blow into the case if possible. If you have the good fortune of a floor-mounted vent, you might even use the convection approach and place the computer directly on the vent! If the vent is higher up the wall, perhaps build a shelf and locate the computer up there! You could even do something similar with a window air conditioner, such as placing the computer on a table directly in front of the window unit's air output. Admittedly I'm getting more and more extreme with these suggestions, but depending on what you've got available and how serious you are about going completely passive, these *might* be things to consider.
MikeC and others, you got me thinking about Athlon, and although it doesn't really qualify as passive, I just want to mention that I've been running a dual Athlon MP 1.2GHz (note that this is the actual clock speed) rig for well more than a year, sharing a case with an extremely hot Seagate 15K RPM hard drive and vented only by several severely undervolted fans, with no problems whatsoever. Sometimes the case can get pretty toasty! And lately I've kicked the fans up to 12V (I put a toggle switch on the back to run the fans at either 5V or 12V) mainly because it made ME nervous, but I've really never had any heat-related problems. Just wanted to mention it as a war story so folks could know the types of torture that are possible. These Athlons are rated to run pretty darned hot -- higher than most of us like to have the temps -- and this can be an advantage in building a passive system. If the heat might be threatening to the hard drive, it could always be located OUTSIDE the case via either SCSI or Firewire, or lately even USB 2.0.MikeC wrote:Passive with a Barton & Zalman 6000cu? uh, no way. I have a sneaking feeling that you could put a godzilla HS on that & you still wouldn't be able to go passive. Any cpu more than 20W & passive becomes a mission impossible -- possible only with big bucks & lots of time. The question would be whether a barton would run so massively underclocked/volted. (1G??) There seemed to be limits to how slow processors could run when I last fooled with this extensively. But if you wanted to try passive I would go for a SLK900 at least. Maybe even something better... That Japanese 6" tall skyscraper HS -- Heatlane Zen -- unfortunately only fits P4s...
Anyway, not much continuity to this post, but maybe it stimulates some additional ideas for someone...
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Harry Azol
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 9:21 am
I doubt the xp 2000+ 0.13 micron throughbred chip will work on your kt7.. but hey, I could be wrong.ernandox wrote:Ok thanksa lot for the Input!
I've been doing some thinking and reading came up with a much cheaper solution:
I 'll keep my abit kt7, remove the fan and buy:
>Zalman ZMNB32J for the NortBridge : 8 euros
>An SLK900 without fan : 62 euros
>a 2000+ 0.13 microns @ 133*8 =1064mhz or less and arround 1.15V : 53 euros
Is that any better?
My Athlon 1200 is running @ 800/1.15V just now.
take care
E.
A big fat chimney leading from the case outlet up to say a foot below the ceiling would give a useful increase in airflow from convection. It would work even better if you put some sort of heater inside the chimney just above the PC, but that would be a dreadful waste of power.
Of course, the other way to make a PC fanless is to use water-cooling with a large passively cooled radiator. There are some examples in the forums here.
Of course, the other way to make a PC fanless is to use water-cooling with a large passively cooled radiator. There are some examples in the forums here.
Nobody's mentioned bluehat's passively cooled Thunderbird (pics in this thread), or that guy from Japan who passively cooled his P4 with similarly massive heatsinks. Unfortunately, I can't find a link to the latter right now. Anyone else out there have it?
Sorry to kick up such an old topic, but reading this topic title I couldnt resist proving that a silent powerful AND good looking computer certainly is possible, in fact you are looking at one right now :
My solution, watercooling about all components:
CPU, VGA, NB, 4 x HD, 2 x DDR and soon my PSU, making my case fanless in operation then. My radiator is a very large passive one, on the side of my (BIG) case. And if you look well, I have a clear case in a clear case, to dampen the remaning hard drive noise and PSU that has a fan for now still, altho its a temp controlled papst. I dont underclock to achieve silence, I have my CPU even very much overclocked !
I also put my gallery in the gallery a while back:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8680
Since I have added the DDR watercooling and some more smaller things.
My solution, watercooling about all components:
CPU, VGA, NB, 4 x HD, 2 x DDR and soon my PSU, making my case fanless in operation then. My radiator is a very large passive one, on the side of my (BIG) case. And if you look well, I have a clear case in a clear case, to dampen the remaning hard drive noise and PSU that has a fan for now still, altho its a temp controlled papst. I dont underclock to achieve silence, I have my CPU even very much overclocked !
I also put my gallery in the gallery a while back:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8680
Since I have added the DDR watercooling and some more smaller things.
I use the HD O matic from Innovatek to cool my hard drives. They work well, fit in a 5.25" slot, and are suspended in rubber sockets even to dampen some noise.
Currently I have them in black, but now they are available in red as well and I will switch them out for that very soon
Currently I have them in black, but now they are available in red as well and I will switch them out for that very soon