mobo/proc/ram suggestions, general questions

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:55 pm

Hi, I hope you guys can help me out here. I want to build a new machine that is really powerful, but quiet. It'll be used for gaming and DVDs in my "home theater". The Barton 2500 mobile sounds great! Assuming I get this processor, can you help me answer a few newbie questions?

What motherboard? I don't need any frills, so no firwire, no onboard sound, etc. I just need to be able to overclock this chip. I'm not really on a budget, but I don't want to waste money either.

What RAM? I'm shooting for 1gb. I think I want two identical sticks of 512 right? I want really awesome RAM if it will make a difference. I don't really get what the timings mean (ie, 2-5-3-2)? What brand and model of RAM should I buy, taking into account the chosen processor and motherboard? Something like this (Simpletech's Nitro PC3700 DDR466)?

I'm not really clear on how the FSB and memory interact. If my memory is DDR466, do I want my FSB to be 233mhz? It looks like most people overclocking the Barton 2500 mobile are using a 200mhz FSB. Does this mean I should go with RAM that is DDR400?

How does a number like "PC3700" affect me?

Like I mentioned, budget is not really a concern, but I don't want to waste money either. I want the fastest possible without wasting any cash! I'm willing to give up a little performance if it saves me a lot of cash. I'm willing to spend a little more if it will make a difference. In the fast moving hardware world, this has always been a good plan for me. Is the 2500 mobile for me? Is there another mobo/proc/ram that you would recommend, given the above? Remember I don't care at all about frills like firewire and onboard sound, though I won't shun a board if it is the best fit, even if it has features I won't use.

Thanks for your help! Sorry again for the newbie questions.

Tigr · Post by **Tigr** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:10 pm

Hi!

All right, I am not going to recommend particular products here but just some general information.

The FSB frequency is 133 for Mobile Athlon. This is the same as DDR266 and the same as PC2100. Those are all different way to say the same thing, basically. A regular desktop Barton (not 3200+) works with FSB of 166 MHz, which is DDR333 or PC2700. If you get your CPU to run at 200 MHz FSB, that would be DDR400 or PC3200.

I heard that mobile Athlon will work at FSB 200 and some insane frequencies like 2.4 GHz. If you want to go that way, you need good memory that stays stable at 200 MHz (PC3200). If not, get PC3200 anyway because there is basically no price difference between 3200 and lower. I do not think you really need some very expensive stuff like you mentioned.

Since I am not an overclocker, I cannot be quite sure about the memory timings but the last thing I heard the memory timings are not that important anymore (at the speeds we work now). I remember someone saying that there is at most 3% difference between the top of the line timings and just "normal" timings. That was the point where I stopped paying attention to timings and started to pay attention only to the speed rating and price.

Actually, there is also Athlon Mobile 2600+ out there for an extra 5-10$. I do not know if you will see much benefit but you may want to think about it.

HTH

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:26 pm

Thanks for the info Tigr! So far I gather I want to run with a 200mhz FSB and DDR400 ram. The 2500 XP-M isn't gauranteed to run at 200mhz FSB right? What are the ramifications of running it at a "nonstandard" speed (178mhz for exmple)? Is it be better to aim for a higher processor speed or a higher FSB?

Can anyone comment on if spending a couple more bucks to get a higher model CPU will be worth it?

I want to overclock, but moderately because I need this to be a (relatively) quiet PC. I'd like a fanless northbridge. I'm thinking of getting a big fancy ThermalRight (not ThermalTake!) CPU cooler. I use an older model ThermalRight cooler in my old PC and it has worked great! I see they have this one (model SP97) that takes a 92mm fan. Sounds great for quiet cooling!

Tigr · Post by **Tigr** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:29 pm

Well, I have heard of many cases when the chip was able to run at 200 MHz FSB but, of course, there is no guarantee. You will just have to try. There is no problem AFAIK with running at "uneven" FSB frequencies. I think that it is best for performance to keep the CPU FSB frequency and the RAM frequency same. That way they work synchronously and do not have to wait some extra time. So if you can change the CPU FSB and RAM frequency to the same value, this will be the best combination.

For some applications the CPU frequency is most important, for example encoding and decoding of MPEG streams and other CPU-intensive tasks. For others, the speed of the connection between the CPU and RAM - FSB - is more important than the CPU frequency, that's when you need to transfer large amounts of information like in some games.

Given a particular CPU, you normally want to have the highest possible CPU frequency and the highest possible FSB at the same time, I think. However, for the games and watching DVDs your machine will be overpowered anyway so I would not push it too far. As you undoubtedly know, for the games the graphics card is way more important than the CPU.

I use a ThermalRight SLK-900U for my Barton XP-2400+ and I am very happy with it. I have only a 80mm fan on it but it is plenty sufficient. I heard only good things about SP97 too, so this may be a good choice.

BTW, regarding the motherboard, you may want to check out which motherboard gives you most control over the various parameters. I use Asus boards but they do not have much in terms of control. I heard that boards from the likes of Abit allow for much more tweaking. You only will need to replace the fan/heatsink on the north bridge with a passive heatsink to keep it quieter. But look around on the overclockers' forums, they will surely have some recommendations for overclocking boards.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:31 am

When selecting a motherboard there is lots of factors that come into play, here are the most common factors people care about (in no particular order):
1. Price.
2. Overall quality and stability (the reputation of the brand is mostly what you can go on).
3. Over/under clocking and over/under volting features.
4. What ports etc are available (e.g. firewire, SATA, onboard sound, etc).
5. Chipset (has to do with memory handling etc).
6. Is there active cooling on the board? (and can it be replaced easilly with passive cooler?)
7. How is the space around the CPU sockel (this might limit your choise or CPU cooler).

In general a cheap motherboard often compromise a little of all points above.
As you see there are many factors to take into account when selecting a board. I risk sticking my neck out by writing some about a few brands based on my own experience and from what I have read that other people use that are satisfied with their boards.

A few good brands that are often used and some of there pros and cons:
1. Asus: Great stability and quality (normally considerd the most stable board brand). Well suited for overclocking, but does not support undervolting. Often have active NB cooling.
2. Abit: Great stability and quality. Superb over/underclocking and volting (even with software). One of the most frequently used boards are NF7-S that has been praised a lot in SPCR forums. Often have active NB cooling.
3. DFI: A less frequently used brand that seems very good. I know little about these boards, but they have at least one board that is close to NF7-S but with passive NB cooling.
4. Epox: This is a cheaper board where you get lots of good stuff for your money. Stability and quality is considered to be slightly lower than the above boards but is still rather good. Well suited for underclocking/volting. I think they are quite good at overclocking and overvolting as well.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:52 am

Thanks for the tips silverarg, I will keep them in mind as I look at the different motherboards. So far I have heard the NF7 mentioned so many times it'll be the first I look at. In the meantime though, I have been reading up on memory...

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=279

...great article, but I came across this...

Even if it means running our memory clock speed well below the maximum feasible for a given memory, an Athlon XP system will ALWAYS exhibit best performance running the memory in sync with the FSB. Therefore, a 166FSB Athlon XP would run synchronously with DDR333/PC2700 (2*166) and give better performance than running with DDR400/PC3200, despite its numbers being bigger. This does not mean to say that PC3200 isn’t a good idea for 166FSB Athlon XPs. Buying slightly higher-rated memory than needed is a good idea if your intent is to overclock and it also allows you some future upgrade room.

This seems to contradict itslef doesn't it? First it says running a 166FSB/PC2700 will be better than 166FSB/PC3200. Then it says buying slightly higher-rated memory than needed is a good idea!?

It was my impression than running 166FSB/PC3200 would simply make the memory run at 166. If this is true then why would 166FSB/PC3200 be worse than 166FSB/PC2700?

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:21 am

This seems to contradict itslef doesn't it? First it says running a 166FSB/PC2700 will be better than 166FSB/PC3200. Then it says buying slightly higher-rated memory than needed is a good idea!?

It was my impression than running 166FSB/PC3200 would simply make the memory run at 166. If this is true then why would 166FSB/PC3200 be worse than 166FSB/PC2700?

Well the PCnnnn rating is just how much data can be passed per second, so it can be directly translated to a DDRnnn rating. E.g. DDR333 = PC2700.

You can buy PC3200 memory and run them in PC2700 speed if you like. You might spend a few $ extra to have faster memory than you really run them in.
What they tell you is that you should run memory in sync with the processor FSB. This is a BIOS setting where you typically set your memory speed to a ratio compared to your FSB.
E.g. 5:6 or 2:3 or 6:5 etc
What they tell you is that you should run with 1:1 settings. This is a good recommendation in 99% of cases.

So what is the benefit to buy PC3200 over PC2700 memory when running FSB166?
The answer is:
None at all as long as you stay with FSB166.
However if you want to overclock to FSB178 (as an example), then you are sure that your PC3200 will still work fine a the higher speed, but your PC2700 memory might not be able to handle the higher speed in sync (1:1 settings).

Since you want to overclock I recommend that you buy PC3200 memory.
The memory timings has been mentioned to be of less importance. Still I would recommend that you look at CL2.5 memory if the cost difference to CL3 isn't too high.
Also look at known memory brands since that is likely to save you lots of time and effort. Nonames etc often tends to give you more stability problem when overclocking.
Personaly I went with Kingston value RAM after som recommendations, but this has to do with what brands are priced well in your area.

CallMeJoe · Post by **CallMeJoe** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:15 am

If you don't want firewire, Soundstorm, SATA, etc., go with the plain vanilla NF7 rather than the NF7-S. Keep in mind you are limiting your future choices for system upgrade.

Many people report OC results just as good with the Mobile 2400+ as with the 2500+ or 2600+. If you want to cut your spending, consider that.

Go with MAJOR brand name RAM (funny advice from someone running PNY). Corsair, Kingston, Mushkin, etc. Most consider the Kingston ValueRAM or Corsair Value Select to be the best values. Since there is so little price difference between CAS 3 and CAS 2.5, go with the 2.5. Again, considering how little price difference there is, go with DDR400 (PC3200) rather than DDR333 (PC2700) to give you more headroom with your OC.

So far as CPU speed vs FSB, start by bumping up your FSB until your system becomes unstable. Then lower the multiplier on your CPU by one step (like from 12 to 11.5) and see if the system stabilizes. Also play with (slight) increases in your CPU core voltage when you see instability. Believe what everyone says about keeping your FSB and memory clock in sync. Athlons really suffer from transfer latencies with asynchronous settings.

If you get the NF7, Abit USA has an excellent forum for advice on getting the most out of your CPU and Nforce mobo. Just don't expect to find too many Silence devotees there. Abit does have the reputation of an overclockers board.

kogi · Post by **kogi** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:09 pm

1) For a gamer and home theater. I would prefer the NF7-S. Audio quailty is much better with soundstorm. Unless you will be using an ecternal card. SATA is also going to increase your future upgrade options.

2) DDR400 is perfectly suitable for your needs. Mininum get cas 2.5 rated.
AWESOME ram will make a difference. PC4000 or DDR500 will operate max 250 FSB. Higher FSB means higher memory bandwidth. In THEORY you can run the XP-M 250 fsb x 9 = 2250mhz
Now that being said. Some of us are having difficulties getting the XP-m to run at FSB higher than 215.

3) The northbridge fan on the Abit NF7 is piece of junk. Order a zalman northbridge cooler as well

My XP-M at the moment is running at 210Mhz FSB and a 11.5 multplier
47c full load @ 1.7 v
This is adaqutely cooled by a slk-800 with a panaflo L1A

Translation = 2,415 Mhz of power with a 21db fan.
Mind you it's quiet. but not SILENT.
If you need SILENT than you can run it at 166 x 11 with 1.45v and lower the speed of your fan.

kogi

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:45 pm

Since you want "quiet", it'll mean you'll be employing low airflow fans. That means your case interior is important. Look for a board that will let you fold your cables out of the way of the airflow. IDE and Floppy connectors towards the top, SATA connectors at the bottom, mobo power connector in a place that wont limit air to the CPU, etc.

DFI (Lanparty/Infinity Ultra is also a good o/c board), Abit AN7 or NF7 series are all good candidates. Epox o/c's well and is cheaper but board layout is dissapointing.

apocalypse80 · Post by **apocalypse80** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:47 am

As far as mobos go , I'd prefer the NF7 or NF7-S.
It has all the options , including a full range of multis (unlike 99% of mobos) and proper memory voltage (2.9V overvolts to 3V).
With tictac modded bios and proper NB cooling it will get 235+ fsb (as long as your memory can handle it).
The verdict on the AN7 is that it's a piece of junk (huge problems).
Lack of QC is what I gather from the DFI front , it is also (by far) the slowest nforce2 motherboard.
If you get an NF7/NF7-S , GET a zalman for the NB , the stock cooler is extremely noisy.
Also you WILL need to do the L12 mod (done by sticking a wire in the socket) to get >220 fsb.

I think you shouldn't skimp on memory , after all it's the best way to get extra performance , without the added noise.
Forget about model ratings or even manufacturers , when it comes to overclocking , all that matters what chips each module uses.
You want low latency memory (timings can have a dramatic impact on performance).
The best you can currently get is memory using Winbond CH-5 chips , which will give you 2-3-2-6 or 11 timings (ideal is 2-2-2-5 or 11 , but BH-5 mem is out of production).
I'm not sure which modules carry CH-5 but the timings are instantly recognizable.

As for the cpu , make no mistake , these mobile cpu's can reach high frequencies (mine goes to 2640mhz with rad fans @ 12V) , but they DON'T run any cooler than "regular" bartons at the same settings.
So getting over 2.2 silently on air will be VERY difficult.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:05 am

I have an Audigy ZS 2 sound card. The reason I didn't want to go with just the onboard SoundStorm is that the MCP-T can only supports DD encoding of EAX 2.0 sound for games. With the Audigy I can get EAX 4.0 "HD" sound in games that support it (HalfLife 2 and Battlefield: Vietnam are what this box will see the most of, although BF:V's EAX support is currently crap).

As for SATA, this box will only have one HDD in it to keep down the noise in the home theater. It'll be networked to my current PC in a different room, where I don't care about the noise. That machine will need SATA soon, as it's IDE channels are all taken.

Concerning memory, here are all the suitable sticks I felt I should be considering...

$198 Corsair Value Select (cas 2.5)
$206 Buffalo Technology (cas 2.5)
$235 OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Platinum Edition (2-3-2-6)
$248 Mushkin Level One (2-3-2)
$250 Kingston Value Series (cas 2.5)
$255 OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Platinum Edition (2-3-2-5)
$303 Corsair XMS (2-3-3-6)
$332 Corsair XMS (2-3-2-6)
$350 Mushkin 222 Special (2-2-2)

Did I miss any? I assume any one of these are going to work well. The question is, do I just buy the cheapest one or is it worth it to spend a little more? I assume an extra $100-$150 won't show enough performance difference to warrant the spending. But would throwing in an extra $40-$50 for one of the mid-range priced models be warranted? Would I be able to notice any difference for my $50?

I guess it comes down to overclockability. I will overclock as much as I possibly can and still stay under 60C full load. This rig will be an A-tech 5000 HTPC case. The touchscreen is so I don't have to turn on the projector to use the PC's non-video functions. Yes, its networked so I could remote to it, but I already convinced myself I need the touchscreen so SHH!

I know I'm going all out on the case, but its the last HTPC case I'll ever have to buy. I can buy a replacment rear panel when the BTX form factor comes out.

Anyway, the case will have two 80mm AcoustiFans for rear exhaust fans (temperature controlled). The 2U power supply fan (not sure how big it is, looks kinda small

) will be volt modded and turned into an intake fan (this has proved to provide better airflow). The Radeon 9800 Pro will be cooled with this fanless GPU cooler, which is an Alpha heatsink and a PCI slot duct. The negative case pressure causes cool air to be sucked in through this duct. The northbridge will have a passive heatsink.

There is 80mm from motherboard to the bottom of where the DVD drive sits. The plan is to put a 50mm high Thermalright SP-97 on top of the 2600+ XP-M. With an 92x92x25mm AcoustiFan on this heatsink, there will be 10mm to spare. Glenn, the creator of the case, assures me 10mm will be enough for a slow speed fan. 10mm isn't a lot, but the SP-97 is a kickass heatsink and the case has good airflow. He says that it is warmer with the case open, which proves it is pretty efficient.

So I am thinking the heat might be the limiting factor for the overclock. This is just a guess, but if true it means I might not get very far over a 200mhz FSB. Sure hope I'm wrong! Its hard to have a box that looks great, is silent, AND is the most bad ass machine...

Still haven't looked at the NF7 closely, its the next target on my list. Sounds like a winner though!

apocalypse80 · Post by **apocalypse80** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:02 am

Just a reminder , the cpu is (almost) completely irelevant when it comes to the fsb you will reach.
If your cpu (or cooling) don't allow you a high cpu frequency , just lower the multiplier and work with the highest fsb your mobo/memory will allow (typically 220 - 230).
Even 8x230=1840 will be a HUGE improvement in performance over 14x133=1866 (default mobile 2500+).

As for memory , 2-2-2-11 timings (the best for nforce2) versus 2.5-3-3-8 (mediocre) will give a 5-10% better overall system performance.
That is before considering the higher fsb you will probably reach with good memory (typically another 5% boost).
In comparison taking a barton from 11x166 to 11x200 gives ~20% overall system performance...
So in my opinion it is worth some extra cash.
Mushkin is the best money can buy , the only (still available) memory that can actually run at 2-2-2-11 timings.
However it just isn't worth it , the OCZ you listed will be slightly slower (maybe 1-2%) but much cheaper.

Again , the best option (if you have it) would be to "hand pick" some cheap memory with the chips you want.
When I had to buy memory , I went to a local store with a large stock of Kingston ValueRam and searched through it.
That got me 2x256 cheap PC3200 , CL2.5 ram with BH-5 chips that can run like champs @446,2-2-2-11 up to 478,2.5-3-3-8 (could probably go higher if the mobo didn't stop me).
So if you could search through some cheap kingston or twinmoss or something , you could get the same thing for much cheaper.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:15 am

apocalypse80 wrote:Just a reminder , the cpu is (almost) completely irelevant when it comes to the fsb you will reach.

Very good point! I think from what you are telling me that I'm going to go for the OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Platinum Edition (2-3-2-5).

I read up a bit on the NF7 and have decided I can't go wrong with it.

Been reading about the Acoustifans and can't find anyone saying anything bad about them! So I'm going to go with two 80mm and one 92mm Acoustifans.

Also I think I'll throw in the couple extra bucks and go for a Barton 2600+ mobile instead of the 2500+, in the hopes that it will increase my chances of getting a good overclocker.

That just about wraps it up for this rig!

Just about... still have a couple things I am pondering.

First, and probably the simplest decision, is what passive northbridge heatsink should I go with? My first thought was Thermalright of course, but their NB-1 cooler isn't passive and did "just ok" in the reviews. Any suggestions?

The more important decision has to do with the CPU cooler. I mentioned before that I have 85mm from motherboard to the bottom of the DVD drive. A 92x92x25mm Acoustifan leaves me with 60mm. Now, what heatsink should I use? I want to go with the 50mm high Thermalright SP-97 as it is one awesome sink. Do you think the 10mm between the fan and DVD drive will be enough? Thermalright has a number of other heatsinks that aren't quite as good as the SP-97 but are only 45mm high. Do you feel the extra 5mm is worth getting a sink that isn't quite as effecient? Which of the 45mm high Thermalright sinks would you recommend? Its hard to tell if one is better than the others just from the information on their site. I need to dig through some reviews. The SLK-948U weighs 635g! Compared to the already large SP-97 at 585g, that is huge!

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:29 am

I run my Kingston Value RAM PC2700 CAS2.5 a bit overclocked.
They can handle 2-2-2-6 timings @198 FSB.
I think it is the IGP on my NF7-M that is stopping higher FSB.
I this this gives you an idea of what you can squeeze out of cheap RAM of a good brand.

I think you will be satisfied with any of the RAMs on your list costing up to $255. Depending on how important you think it is to squeeze out the last few percent of speed I would consider going for the cheap Corsair Value cas 2.5 for only $198.

As a HTPC I would value low noise more than 10% extra speed, so I would probably not go for the highest possible overclock by default.
You can use a nifty software to alter the FSB and vcore setting among other things if you go with th NF7 board. Seems you made up your mind on that board anyway.
Search for NF7 and 8RDA in SPCR forums and you will find a few very interesting threads for you. This way you can quickly go from normal mode to highest overclocking mode in a few seconds without rebooting and you can normally run with much less heat dissipation at a lower speed when viewing movies etc.

what passive northbridge heatsink should I go with?

Zalmans NB47J. Cheap and does a good job. Just make sure you can make it fit with the CPU cooler you have decided to go for.
Or have fun and go for a bit of overkill like I did on my northbridge on my NF7-M board...
http://www.silvervarg.nu/henrik/dator/c ... ounted.jpg

trodas · Post by **trodas** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:47 am

LOL, silvervarg, nice work and picture too

So, you are able to run Baron 2500 at 1500+ rating with this setup entierly pasively?

Good job, then

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:50 am

Trodas, I did not intend to sneak in and steal this thread. I posted about my build in the CPU cooling section in this thread: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=11844

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:50 pm

I managed to track down this thread where somebody was questioning if the NB47J would fit on an NF7-S with a SP-97. He bought one and said, "Tight fit. Looks really nice.", so I asume it fit for him.

I assume the NF7 (not -S) will be the same.

Nice work on your passive cooling machine! I wonder if I could fit the CNPS6000 next to the SP-97? Its 95~110(L) x 63(W) x 65(H), so it isn't too tall, though maybe too wide. They should make a smaller one for NBs!

WOW!! That software that can change the FSB, voltages, and multiplier on the fly is amazing! Very cool stuff! This software combined with temperature controlled Acoustifans should provide a low noise solution that kicks into high, overclocked gear for playing games!

I think I'll go with the more expensive RAM just to be a little safer I can get a good overclock. It'll be my first time spending more on RAM than mobo and proc combined!

As for viewing DVDs and movies, that actually takes a ton of processing power. I use ZoomPlayer and want to add ffdshow, resize to 1440x960, apply some filters, then resize again to 1280x720. My current XP 2000+ processor can just barely handle just resizing to 1280x720!

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:48 am

Nice work on your passive cooling machine! I wonder if I could fit the CNPS6000 next to the SP-97? Its 95~110(L) x 63(W) x 65(H), so it isn't too tall, though maybe too wide. They should make a smaller one for NBs!

Thanks. I guess this depends on the orientation of the SP-97. The DP-102 without the mounting brackets for 80mm fans is 69*69mm (L*W) and just barely fits.
On the other hand the SP-97 is not likely to run really well without any forced airflow. With just a little forced airflow some air will be stired around the NB anyway, so a Zalman NB47J should be a very good fit for you.

I can confirm that the NF7 and NF7-S has same measurements. They are in fact the same board with a few components missing on the NF7.
In fact my NF7-M board says NF7 with a sticker saying NF7-M where the Sata chip goes on the NF7-S.

mpteach · Post by **mpteach** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:32 pm

If its going to be a home entertainment then firewire would be nice. Alof of home enterntiinment products and several digital camcorders use firewire because of its superior video transfer speeds and it doesntr require a cpu like usb.

IF you want absoulely superior sound permoance buy and audiogy soundcard, its $100 but it blows everything else away.

as far as fsb is concerned ive heard of plenty of people running @ 220

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:45 pm

I suppose I'll go with the NB47J. The guy I found on google said that was a tight fit, the CNPS6000 probably wouldn't fit.

mpteach, yep, I have an Audigy ZS 2 so I can get EAX 4.0 in games.

So this means I have firewire if I really need it.

Been looking at what other components I need. Mainly what hard drive to get? This hard drive will only have games and apps on it, storage of movies and such will be accessed from a different computer over a network. I saw the Samsung SP1614N article here on SPCR, but I'm not sure that is what I should get. I'm half thinking 80GB would be enough, and supposedly the 80GB drives are quieter because they only have one platter. Then I ran across the Raptor drives, at 10,000 RPM! Are the performance of the Raptors really that much better? Are they much louder? I would need SATA for them, which means getting the NF7-S.

apocalypse80 · Post by **apocalypse80** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:41 pm

Raptors are very loud and very expensive , really unsuitable for your use.

I took another look and you say that this will be a gaming rig (amongst other things).
What kind of vga will you be using?
Cause putting some extra money towards getting a high-end vga will be much better than buying expensive ram or motherboard or whatever.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:38 pm

Here is the part list so far. The less popular items I made into links. Nothing is purchased yet unless otherwise specified...

$549 A-Tech 5000 case (black, slot loading, touchscreen, USB-UIRT) ($100 deposit paid)
$407 Xenarc 700TS 7" 16:9 LCD touchscreen (just purchased today)
$50 USB-UIRT
$75 350 watt 2U power supply
$79 Abit NF7 motherboard
$6 Zalman NB47J northbridge cooler
$99 Barton 2600+ XP-M processor
$51 Thermalright SP-97 CPU heatsink
$257 OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Platinum Edition (2-3-2-5)
$200 Radeon 9800 Pro (already purchased)
$55 Mass-Air GPU cooler
$63 Acoustifans (2x80mm and 1x92mm) (maybe one more for PSU, mounted outside the case)
$50 Pioneer 120S DVD drive (already purchased)
$84 Audigy 2 ZS sound card (already purchased)
$111 Samsung SP1614N 160gb hard drive
--------------------
$2136 total (including shipping)

The 160gb Samsung SP1614N is what I'm currently thinking I should go for. Please speak up if you think otherwise!

The only drawback I see with this drive is that NewEgg doesn't carry it. NewEgg carries everything else I need except for this drive and Acoustifans. $25 more dollars buys me 40gb more (Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus)... do you think I would notice more noise or less performance with the 200gb Seagate?

[edit]Added prices[/edit]

mpteach · Post by **mpteach** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:36 pm

IF you want to store a bunch of movies, or better yet tv shows your going to need alot of memory. I know one guy who has six HD's and every epsidode of stargate SG-1 among other things.

Good call on the Audigy w/firewire

How much did the touch screen cost?

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:48 pm

Yeah, Atech Fabrication has a "mass storage" case that is really neat. Really expensive though. My thought is that I'll just use a networked PC in a different room to store movies, music, and such. This way I can get by with just one hard drive, which is all the case will fit with the options I chose.

The touchscreen I've been fighting to get on ebay for a month! Lowest internet price is $425. I've seen it go on ebay for $390, which is not a huge doscount but its slightly better. I lost an auction yesterday for one but the winner backed out so I bought it today for my bid of $395. I ended up saving about $20...

Competition is brutal for these things.

Would have been nice if Atech chose a cheaper touchscreen, I've seen some different brands around the $225 range, but I'm sure this one is very very nice. I'm going to run the touchscreen off the Radeon's VGA out and the projector off the DVI out. I'm pretty sure I can get the displays to mirror each other, though I haven't looked in to how to set that up.

For kicks I went back and added prices to the part list. Thank god for tax returns!

The majority of the cost is in the case and its accessories: USB-UIRT, DVD drive, fans, power supply, etc. In the future I'll only need to upgrade the core components: CPU, ram, mobo, GPU. I plan on keeping this case for a looong looong time!

mpteach · Post by **mpteach** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:01 pm

In my experience on ebay, after shipping, i usually only save 15% on hot NIB items.

My imagination is going crazy thinking up things i could do with a touch screen. (I already have a pda, but this is bigger) I blame my parents for letting me watch Start Trek the Next Generation while growing up.