I'm a kiosk developer, and epia-based solutions just don't have enough muscle for 3D graphics, Flash presentations, video, etc... but my kiosks need to be multi-media rich and absolutely quiet (I'm even using a CF card for the hard drive, it's running linux). I've been drooling over the prospect of a Pentium M motherboard, but was real disappointed in the high cost.
Then it hit me: Grab a barebones centrino laptop (the Centrino is basically a Pentium M before marketing decided to call it Pentium M) and throw a big heat sink on the CPU (Or heat-pipe it to the kiosk's aluminum skins). Since it comes with an 15" LCD screen that I can convert to a touchscreen my total cost should be nearly what it was with the Epia solution, but much faster. Plus, the integrated battery works like a powerful integrated UPS.
Anyone have experience converting a fanned Centrino laptop to a fanless desktop, or do you have have any pointers, or warnings? How big of a heatsink would I need (22W of power)? Anyone ever removed their laptop screen so it can be used seperately (at least hyper-extend it so it works like a tablet)?
Thanks!
Dave
PS - this is what I'm thinking of using:
- Barebones 15" Centrino laptop: $399 http://www.abspc.com/app/search.asp?sp-q=34-221-009
- CPU: $168 http://www.titannotebook.com/product/co ... /sl6n4.asp
Making a fanless Pentium M system from a centrino laptop
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Re: Making a fanless Pentium M system from a centrino laptop
I'm sure you can cut some more in cost if you go for a Celeron mobile. They have half the cache size, which doesn't seem to affect performance so much. I've seen a 1.5 GHz (which probably gives better performance than the PM 1.3 GHz) here in Sweden for 117 USD. You can probably find cheaper in USA for instance, possibly under 100 USD.ipaqgeek wrote: - CPU: $168 http://www.titannotebook.com/product/co ... /sl6n4.asp
Are you sure the integrated graphics are enough? Ok, you probably know what you're doing but I just wanted to remind you.
An alternative: AMD Mobile Athlon XP 2000+ together with a CHEAP motherboard capable of undervolting and underclocking. CPU and mobo together cost some 150 USD here in Sweden. It's all about total cost though.
Good luck!
and yeah, Welcome to SPCR!!!
Another thing. The old Pentium M (1 MB cache) and Celeron M (512 kB cache) were made in 130 nm process and was called Banias. The new Pentium M (2 MB cache) and Celeron M (1 MB cache) are made in 90 nm process, they are called Dothan. The only other difference between the Pentium M and the Celeron M is that the latter doesn't support SpeedStep. The Pentium is almost always more expensive than the Celeron, sometimes even when comparing the fastest, newer CM and the slowest, older PM.
This mean that your choice of CPU is not the best. I checked and found a CM 1.4 GHz Celeron M with 1 MB, also 117 USD. That's a faster one for less money (the only downside is the lack of SpeedStep, maybe that's not an issue for you)
This mean that your choice of CPU is not the best. I checked and found a CM 1.4 GHz Celeron M with 1 MB, also 117 USD. That's a faster one for less money (the only downside is the lack of SpeedStep, maybe that's not an issue for you)
Re: Making a fanless Pentium M system from a centrino laptop
Concerning the integrated graphics on that laptop...
It'd be okay if for "3D" if you're not looking for high res or high framerates, but it's really not enough for most 3D games. Really should go for one with an integrated Nvidia or ATI graphics chip if you want decent 3D performance.
As long as you realize that, then it's okay.
It'd be okay if for "3D" if you're not looking for high res or high framerates, but it's really not enough for most 3D games. Really should go for one with an integrated Nvidia or ATI graphics chip if you want decent 3D performance.
As long as you realize that, then it's okay.
Great input. Thanks guys! I'm sure glad I joined the community.
You guys now have me considering whether it's such a great idea now. I do my applications in Shockwave Flash, and I've noticed how slow they often run on my own 2.0 GHz Celeron laptop (which has no Video acceleration). I don't know if it's just windows bogging down the system though, so I'm going to partition off a linux OS and try running the same Flash apps there. Then I'll know whether it has the power to do what I need to do.
The barebone Nvidia and ATI laptops start at $800, so that's not an option, at least not compared to the $399 laptop I originally spec'd out.
Are there any fanless 3D accelerator cards that would make the Epia M10000 faster at graphics than an un-accelerated 1.5GHz celeron laptop? I sure wish they made mini-PCI 3D video cards.
I also like the idea of the underclocked Mobile AMD XP 2000+, but can you throttle down the CPU enough in Linux or does it require a Windows app? If it can all be done in BIOS then that's very tempting, combined with a fanless 3D accelerator.
You guys now have me considering whether it's such a great idea now. I do my applications in Shockwave Flash, and I've noticed how slow they often run on my own 2.0 GHz Celeron laptop (which has no Video acceleration). I don't know if it's just windows bogging down the system though, so I'm going to partition off a linux OS and try running the same Flash apps there. Then I'll know whether it has the power to do what I need to do.
The barebone Nvidia and ATI laptops start at $800, so that's not an option, at least not compared to the $399 laptop I originally spec'd out.
Are there any fanless 3D accelerator cards that would make the Epia M10000 faster at graphics than an un-accelerated 1.5GHz celeron laptop? I sure wish they made mini-PCI 3D video cards.
I also like the idea of the underclocked Mobile AMD XP 2000+, but can you throttle down the CPU enough in Linux or does it require a Windows app? If it can all be done in BIOS then that's very tempting, combined with a fanless 3D accelerator.
Yeah, this must be a really low cost solution.ipaqgeek wrote:I also like the idea of the underclocked Mobile AMD XP 2000+, but can you throttle down the CPU enough in Linux or does it require a Windows app? If it can all be done in BIOS then that's very tempting, combined with a fanless 3D accelerator.
There are many Athlon XP mobos out there, and you can change multiplier and FSB in most of them. However, there's only a few that are really good for overclocking, and therefore they get most of the attention. The other mobos should work good with underclocking, you choose speed in BIOS so it's OS independent. What you want the mobo to have:
Compatible with Mobile Athlon XP. This is the most important, otherwise you can't run the machine at all... this issue might depend on BIOS version.
Multiplier adjustments, from 4x and up (the higher value is not important in your case)
FSB adjustments, you probably want at least 166/333, 200/400 is the best
Vcore adjustments, at least down to 1.1 V. Abit and Aopen have some good ones for instance, look here.
S2K bus disconnect. A feature that some have in BIOS. It lowers the power consumption when idle, something that your machine might do quite often, I don't know how high the CPU load is when not used. You know! There are ways to get this feature if not present in BIOS. For VIA boards look here. I lowered my idle temps from 56>42 on my ASUS board, but only lowered 5 degrees on my Abit. Don't know what to think, temp reading is tricky.
Mounting holes for heatsink. Remember that not every AXP board have it. Maybe you don't need it, but it doesn't hurt to have them.
My Abit KV7 got all that, except S2K in BIOS, but I got it anyway. FWIW, this board is a very compact ATX board, only 190x305 mm. 245x305 is the standard.
That's all I can come up with for now. Use the search function to get more info, and check other forums such as nforcershq.com and Abits forum.
Good luck!
-
MikeC
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12285
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
- Contact:
If you want to go the AMD XP / undervolted route, look in the Recommended Section at the Undervoltable Motherboards.
Mmmm - remember that your Celeron 2.0ghz system is most likely based on the Pentium 4 celeron, which is much, much slower than any Pentium M based system. Additionally, I don't think that Flash animations get any real benefit from a quick display card - it would only be your 3d apps.Great input. Thanks guys! I'm sure glad I joined the community.
You guys now have me considering whether it's such a great idea now. I do my applications in Shockwave Flash, and I've noticed how slow they often run on my own 2.0 GHz Celeron laptop (which has no Video acceleration). I don't know if it's just windows bogging down the system though, so I'm going to partition off a linux OS and try running the same Flash apps there. Then I'll know whether it has the power to do what I need to do.
The barebone Nvidia and ATI laptops start at $800, so that's not an option, at least not compared to the $399 laptop I originally spec'd out.
Are there any fanless 3D accelerator cards that would make the Epia M10000 faster at graphics than an un-accelerated 1.5GHz celeron laptop? I sure wish they made mini-PCI 3D video cards.
I also like the idea of the underclocked Mobile AMD XP 2000+, but can you throttle down the CPU enough in Linux or does it require a Windows app? If it can all be done in BIOS then that's very tempting, combined with a fanless 3D accelerator.
Artag
This may require some clarification -- are you doing Shockwave or Flash? There are plugins for Flash on Linux, but no Shockwave plugins. So, if you require both, Linux is out of the question, as well.ipaqgeek wrote:You guys now have me considering whether it's such a great idea now. I do my applications in Shockwave Flash,
As far as I know, for 3D rendering, any old PCI card should beat integrated graphics -- even those selling for $30-$40... Though Epia does have better MPEG-2 playback acceleration than some of those cheaper cards... depends on what you're actually doing with your Flash -- is it mainly a user interface? If so, then integrated graphics shouldn't be a problem at all.ipaqgeek wrote:Are there any fanless 3D accelerator cards that would make the Epia M10000 faster at graphics than an un-accelerated 1.5GHz celeron laptop? I sure wish they made mini-PCI 3D video cards.
We're just using Flash, but our customers want to do 3D things, so as soon as Shockwave is available for linux then we want to use it. Shockwave for Linux is something we should all be requesting (go to http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/ to request it).
I think at this point we'll be trying both the $399 15" centrino laptop and the 2000+ AMD solution, in parallel and then pick whatever works best for our solution. We're looking at doing at least ten of these over the next few months. Hopefully a lot more down the road if we can convince our customer.
All your suggestions have been invaluable. I'll keep you all posted.
I think at this point we'll be trying both the $399 15" centrino laptop and the 2000+ AMD solution, in parallel and then pick whatever works best for our solution. We're looking at doing at least ten of these over the next few months. Hopefully a lot more down the road if we can convince our customer.
All your suggestions have been invaluable. I'll keep you all posted.