Home Theater PC Project

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:23 am

Well, I'm now on the kick to build up a Home Theater PC that will perform TIVO-like functions (and more). I put together a proof-of-concept box out of spare parts - and what a noisy box it is. Old rattly case with what sounds like two Delta fans in the power supply, AMD-based motherboard with the stock LOUD AMD heatsink/fan, 40gb Maxtor hard drive that's horrendously whiny, etc. This computer (temporarily in the study) is easily twice as loud as my workstation and my wife's combined. You should have seen the look on her face when I told her I was going to put a computer "like this one" in the living room.

Anyway, utilizing all the knowledge I've picked up here over the last few months, I've ordered all the parts to build up the actual HTPC. They should all arrive today, so I'll be happily building them tonight, and if I can remember to do so, I'll take some pictures and write up a post on how it goes. Here's what I'm building:

Coolermaster 620C case (mini-atx, looks like a stereo component)
Intel mini-ATX motherboard w built-in sound, LAN, and graphics
2.6Ghz Celeron
Zalman ALCU 7000 heatsink/fan
ATI Radeon 9600SE video card w/tv out, passively cooled
Samsung SpinPoint 160gb SATA drive
Samsung DVD drive
2 PVR-250 tv cards
Antec 380S power supply (removed from my Sonata case)

My only real concern is the 60mm case fan in the Coolermaster case. I can put a zalman fanmate on it to slow it down, but that may not be the proper solution if the PSU can't keep the case cool enough. I'd love to put a Seasonic with a bit 120mm fan in it, and just disable the 60mm fan, but the layout of the case would have the 120mm Seasonic fan just jammed against the bottom of the case. That Antec PSU was extremely quiet, except when under high load (which it was in my workstation, since that does folding@home duty).

Wish me luck!

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:31 am

Good luck with all the building!
Your lucky to get all the parts. I'm still waiting for all my computer parts. So far I got the processor only...

Ofcourse we all love to see some pictures and get info on how silent it became in the end.
Would it work to connect the 60mm fan to the fan only output on the PSU?
Not sure if that would give you sufficient case cooling.

lacsap · Post by **lacsap** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:32 am

Got almost same setup as you. What I did to keep things cool and quiet:

1. Cut the grill right besides the 60mm fan to put a 2nd one.
2. Removed the unused PCI slot cover (between the 2 PVR cards) and put a 80mm fan between the HD and the end of the PVR cards. Pulling air around the HD, pushing it between the 2 PVR, out by the PCI slot.

All 4 fans (2x60mm, 1x80mm and the CPU coller are connected to a Zalman multi fan controller. HTPC is cool and whisper quiet.

One difference is the CPU coller. I use the SLK-800u because the Zalman 7000 would not fit my mobo. The CPU socket was right by the edge of the mobo. And the PSU is about a hair away from the same edge. Check that before opening the cooler box.

Lacsap

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:46 am

I was concerned about the Zalman cooler fitting, but then found some pictures of someone else using a nearly identical case with the same motherboard and Zalman cooler. They fit it in, so it appears it'll work for me.

One thing I've now noticed - it appears that the case has the proper screw holes to allow the power supply to be mounted in the "normal" fashion OR upside down! If that's the case, then I could get a Seasonic 300 or 350 Tornado (I don't think I'll need 400w) with the big 120mm fan, and have it do pretty much all the case venting. This picture here shows the rear of a similar case (the 610):
http://www.htpcnews.com/gallery/MRL/IMG_0896.jpg

Otherwise, I figured if the 60mm was too loud I'd get a 80-to-60mm adapter and mount it on the rear of the case, and have the fan outside the case drawing air out of it. We'll see!

Fabool · Post by **Fabool** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:53 am

I have the same case (and my setup is VERY similar to yours) so I can offer a few tips.

First of all, a PSU with a 120mm fan fits perfectly, the fan just goes on the top side. My Coba 350W has been running days under load and it has been very quiet (minimum RPM continuosly).

You can mount a fan inside the case with a 60-80mm adapter as well, it's a tad tight but should fit. The 60-80mm adapter may NOT fit on the outside of the case (depends on the adapter), mine didn't and I didn't want to modify it but luckily the whole thing fit on the inside.

I see you're going to have a free 5,25" slot, mount the hard drive there with Novibes or similar. I didn't mount mine yet and there is a nasty sound which is coming from the case that I presume is caused by HDD vibration.

Post some idle/load temps when you get it running, I'd love to compare it to my similar system (some more details in the gallery forum if you're interested).

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:28 am

Thanks for the tips - actually, I have an Enermax fan control/temp probe readout thingy that I intend to put into the second 5.25" bay, but I could always swap that for a 3.5" one if I find I need to move the hard drive. I do really want to keep an eye on the temps.

I may just order a 120mm fan PSU to put into this case, now that it's verified to work.

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:17 am

Followup - I did build this beastie over the weekend, and all went fine. I left the stock 60mm fan in it for now, and went ahead with the Antec PSU that I pulled from my Sonata.

This computer is darn near silent. Without the power light, you really have to lean in close to tell it's even on! I suspect once I actually put it into my stereo cabinet it will truely seem absolutely silent. No hard drive whirr or chatter (that Samsung Spinpoint is fantastic).

I have the Zalman CPU fan set at the lowest speed, and the Intel motherboard is running the 60mm fan at a lower-than-max speed. I didn't install the temperature probe/readout panel, but the Intel monitoring software says the CPU is running at 32C, and the case is at 31C.

The only thing I'm concerned about is that the two PVR-250 TV cards are jammed pretty closely together, and they are a bit toasty. It's an area without great airflow, though there is a vent about 4 inches away from them on the side of the case (pictures to come, I forgot to dump them to my web server). I'd hate to add a fan to this case, but I think I can resolve my concerns over the temps on these cards with a little creative ducting, so that air from that vent has to travel over the tuner cards.

lacsap · Post by **lacsap** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:02 am

Wow, 32C, that's pretty low. Are sure sure of these readings?

As for the PVR250, which version do you have? 15 or 16? 15 is the "old" one and has a heatsink on it. they do produce more heat. but the 16 version (without the HS) run pretty cool.

Lacsap

lacsap · Post by **lacsap** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:25 am

if you look at the 7000 review

http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =92&page=3

you can see that with a P4 2.53, it doesn't get below 40C (at idle). And the spec for your Celeron 2.6 are about the same 62W vs 61W for the P4).

You can now understand why 32C doesn't seem right

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:01 pm

lacsap wrote:if you look at the 7000 review

http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =92&page=3

you can see that with a P4 2.53, it doesn't get below 40C (at idle). And the spec for your Celeron 2.6 are about the same 62W vs 61W for the P4).

You can now understand why 32C doesn't seem right

The temps in that chart are full load temps after running 20 minutes of CPU Burn.

If you look at the 12V chart in my comparison of P4 heatsinks you'll see that my 2.4C (66.2W) is idling at 25°C in the same sort of test rig as MikeC used in his review, so FJG's 32°C at idle inside his case is in the ballpark. I've had a lot of experience with Intel boards and I'd say their temps sensors are pretty darn accurate.

lacsap · Post by **lacsap** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:48 pm

Hummm, then there is something fishy about MY setup then. Got a Gigabyte mobo, SLK-800u cooler with a L1A, 2 PVR 250, same case, but with 2 exhaust fan. And running a P4-M 1.8 (at 1.2), which is supposed to have a max output of 30W (half of his celeron). and I got idle temps around 43C, case at 35C and ambiant at 22C. Bad sensor or some other problem?

Fabool · Post by **Fabool** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:03 pm

Strange, your CPU idle is 8C better than mine even with the fans not running on full speed and mine are! I do have a 2,8Ghz CPU but that shouldn't really affect that much, I think. Strange.. I'll have to double check that the heatsink is installed correctly.

You wouldn't happen to have a digital camera, would you? I'd like to see what the inside of your case looks like.

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:41 am

Now that I have it in the stereo cabinet, temps are slightly higher, but not much - CPU has gone up to 35C, and the case is at 33C. These are what Intel's Monitoring program is reporting...

I do have good ventilation in the stereo cabinet (no front on it, and I cut a good rectangle out of the rear. About 1.5-2" of clearance on each side as well.

Here are a couple of pictures, my apologies that they aren't super-crisp.

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:25 am

And here's two more pictures, this time of it inside the stereo cabinet next to the big projection tv. It's the item on the bottom. Now I need to get a new wireless keyboard/mouse that doesn't have an ugly white receiver unit.

DanOnKeys · Post by **DanOnKeys** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:09 am

Forgive the slightly OT, but I'll be an HTPC n00b eventually (several HTPC projects indefinitely on hold).

I have to ask: What's the advantage of having two PVR-250 TV cards?

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:31 am

DanOnKeys wrote: I have to ask: What's the advantage of having two PVR-250 TV cards?

It allows the HTPC to record two different programs at once. So, I can record Survivor and Friends even though they are on at the same time.

Or, I can record a show on one channel while watching another channel through the HTPC (which then lets me pause, etc - because it's really recording it).

al bundy · Post by **al bundy** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:40 am

Nice work on your HTPC!

Some HTPC's use two TV cards also to display window-in-a-window TV output, so that two different TV programs can display simultaneously on the same screen.

FJC, can you do this with your HTPC rig? Are you using the standard manufacturers' software, or perhaps some other front-end?

DanOnKeys · Post by **DanOnKeys** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:55 am

(Some questions are better left unasked. Now adding multiple TV cards to the wish list.)

FJC -- Sweet HTPC. The fruits of your labor are very encouraging -- especially the favorable looks (gotta keep the wife happy) v. noise (I gotta be happy) ratio.

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:01 am

Thanks!

I'm using the SageTV software (version 1.4.10, and anxiously awaiting the beta of 2.0). It does not offer PiP functionality, at least not at this time.

My TV does offer that, though, so I *could* watch 'regular' tv, with the HTPC picture in picture-in-picture. That would be quite slick! I can imagine it now, watching a show while letting the small picture in the corner be the HTPC windows, which is always recording. Then, if something interesting appeared, I could full-size than and rewind a bit to see what I missed.

Being a news junkie, that would be quite useful!

Though the picture-in-picture with the two HTPC tuners would, of course, be even better, as I could then swap back to the original show and not have missed anything.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:06 pm

You've finally made me jealous of an HTPC that is slicker than mine (no doubt quieter). I've been using a Shuttle SN41G2 case/mobo with an Athlon XP 2400+, 256MB of RAM, and a random hard drive and DVD-Rom I had lying around.

Given the total cost and flexibility, I was proud of my accomplishment, and up until now, haven't seen a comparable unit to mine. Now I have and dammit, I'm pretty envious.

Any suggestions on how to quiet down the shuttle that doesn't involve tearing it down and building a new one?

FJC · Post by **FJC** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:28 am

I've never worked with any of the Shuttle boxes, so I can't speak from experience as to how to best quiet it down. What is causing the noise? PSU?