Sonata success... I'm happy

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:11 pm

Here are the key elements...

- Power supply Antec fan converted to L1A -> substantial gains
- 120mm Antec case fan run at 5 volts -> MASSIVE gains
- SLK-800A with L1A/FanMate1 (throttled back substantially) -> gains
- hard disk 160 GB 7200.7 -> substantial gains over 160 GB Maxtor drive
- System elevated above carpet with 4 shot glasses -> surprising gains

That's it. I am extremely happy with my Sonatas now. There are two Sonatas running in my office and I can say that they are more quiet than my single Dell GX260 at work... by a substantial margine. These systems are almost silent. I couldn't be happier.

Ambient -> 25C
MB temp -> 31C
CPU temp -> 49C

CPU = Athlon XP 2500+ O/C'd to 2.4 GHz (I would back off on the speed but there's no need, now.

)

I'm really glad I stuck with these Sonata cases. They look and feel like quality. Even when they were as loud as the average box, I was still happy with them. Now, I'm super happy. This is the silence Antec must be speaking of.

I have no doubt that there will be more gains in my future. The key now is airflow. I removed two fat plastic cross members from behind the grill and I think I'll open up the inlet at the bottom of the bezel. It's all tweaking now... and being happy.

By the way, the Antec 120mm fans do hum a wee bit at 5v... a very wee bit. It's barely noticeable if you put your ear up to them. Really, the only sound they make is air. What a treat.

Have a fantastic weekend, everyone.

-- Tom

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:30 pm

Good show!

Are these systems under 100% load all the time? I find that systems used for folding/crunching have very different heat budgets than those used in a typical office-like fashion. Specifically, that's why I can't use 5v 120mm fans-- they don't move enough air to keep the system at reasonable temps under 100% load.

The P4 is the best in this regard; it really sips power and generates nominal heat, even at 3.0ghz, as long as you're only using it lightly. This has not been my experience with the Athlons, which generate a higher level of heat even at idle. But once you stress either chip-- by firing up Prime95 or start folding@home, the power consumption and heat generation goes through the freakin' roof!

I've mentioned this before, but my 3.2 (overclocked/overvolted) p4c uses an additional ONE HUNDRED WATTS of power (minus PS ineffeciencies) between 0% and 100% cpu usage. In other words, I go from 150w to 250w power usage at the wall. That's nuts!

And it's only going to get worse from here.

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:13 pm

I forgot to mention two things. First, my GPU was passively cooled right out of the box. It's a GF MX 400 (Don't need great graphics for a Linux server that doesn't even have X installed.

)

The other thing is that I have ACPI support compiled into the kernel. That made a huge difference with the server.

Your questions...

My desktop and server systems are identical with one exception. My desktop has an L1A on the CPU that runs at 12v. I only had one FanMate1 and I wanted the desktop to have more CPU cooling anyway since I run the United Devices agent crunching away on the cancer project 7/24.

The desktop CPU is always 100% (except for a few seconds between uploading results and downloading the next work unit). It has the 12v CPU fan and has a CPU temp of 45C. That's plenty cool enough for me. Actually, when I get another FanMate1 I'll throttle that fan back a bit too.

The server is idle around the clock. With the FanMate1 cut way back on the CPU fan, it still seems to max out at 47C. I have no doubt it would go way up if the server were to come under load.

The 12v CPU fan isn't much louder than the choked back one on the server but it's noticeable.

When I had the 120mm fan disconnected, the desktop CPU temp went up to 58C and was fairly stable. The system, however, was not very stable at that temperature. At 5v, those fans still move a lot of air. I can clearly feel it blowing on your hand when put my had back there. It moves far more air than the L1A in the P/S.

With these mods, the Sonatas are now the outstanding cases I had hoped.

Thanks to everyone on this site for the great ideas and information.

-- Tom

grandpa_boris · Post by **grandpa_boris** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:27 pm

Tom Brown wrote: - 120mm Antec case fan run at 5 volts -> MASSIVE gains

i am going to follow your example and change the way my sonata is configured along the same lines. i suppose i can use zalman's multi-connector for this purpose. but i am curious how the 120mm antec @ 5 volts behaves vs other fans.

they guys who built my sonata box (endpcnoise.com) weren't as insightful as you and instead of placing the 4-pin antec case fan on a 5V feed, they replaced it with a Y&T 3-pin 120mm fan connected to a fanmate. it's much quieter than the antec fan at full 12v, but the problem with their solution is that Y&T "tickers" at lowered voltage, is moderately noisy at the top end of the voltage range and doesn't start at all if fanmate is cranked too low.

antec's 120mm @ 12V seems noisier than a papst 120mm @ 12V and i haven't tried either @ 5V. do you have any thoughts on how the papst fan will compare to antec's if both are @ 5V? do you have any problems with fan not starting at voltage that low?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:52 am

Hello Tom:

Tom Brown wrote: - 120mm Antec case fan run at 5 volts -> MASSIVE gains

You are the first to get these to start at 5V -- ususally it takes 7V to get 'em spinning. Maybe they've changed the fan?

BTW, are you going to join the SPRC Folding@Home team?

lazybum131 · Post by **lazybum131** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:44 am

my sonata 120mm antec fan starts up fine at 5V too.

energy · Post by **energy** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:17 pm

Mine starts at 5v consistantly as well...

starsky · Post by **starsky** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:25 pm

Am I missing something here, isn't the FAN ONLY connector off the Antec Power Supply 5v already ?

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:37 pm

I believe the "fan only" connector is thermally regulated, not just straight 5V.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:15 am

Rook wrote:I believe the "fan only" connector is thermally regulated, not just straight 5V.

Well, it starts off around 4.7-5V and ramps (very slowly and logarithmically) up to about 10.5V.

I have a TruePower in my gaming rig and the voltage on the Fan Only connectors never ramps up even when I'm gaming and the case temp is in the low 40°C region.

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:59 am

Tom

did you use a 4 pin to 3 pin convertor cable for the Antec 120mm fan to allow it to controlled to 5volts?

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:48 pm

No.

I used the 4 pin molex plug but I reversed the red and orange wires in the female molex connector (I left the male pass-through unchanged as I don't use it).

This mod is easily done but takes some patience as it can be a little bit finiky to extract the pins from the conenctor. If you want to use the pass through connector, you'll have to swap the male connector too.

Once I had the plug modified, I connected the case fan to a regular molex instead of the "Fan Only" connector.

I'll just say that my two Sonatas do not go down to 5V at the lowest temperature ramp. There must have been a production run chage. They are much quieter running at a constant 5 volts. I'm glad the fan in my P/S is temperature controlled. It will give me some (but not much) protection against thermal runaway.

The 5v case fan mod and the L1A swap in the P/S will make your Sonata beautifully quiet. I run over clocked Bartons in my Sonatas and I run them at 2.45 GHz. With L1A fans on my CPU coolers (choked back with FanMate1s), the hard drives are the loudest devices in my Sonatas.

These mods will be like a breath of fresh air. Your Sonata will be as quiet as it is beautiful.

-- Tom

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:52 pm

Ralf Hutter wrote:
Rook wrote:I believe the "fan only" connector is thermally regulated, not just straight 5V.
Well, it starts off around 4.7-5V and ramps (very slowly and logarithmically) up to about 10.5V.

I have a TruePower in my gaming rig and the voltage on the Fan Only connectors never ramps up even when I'm gaming and the case temp is in the low 40°C region.

For what it's worth, my fans start to ramp up before my case temps reach their normal of about 28C. That 28 number is from the motherboard sensors so it's accuracy is certainly in question.

-- Tom

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:14 am

BTW I managed to get an Evercool 120mm fan in my Sonata to run lower than 5 volts and now my system is damn silent from my sitting position

At 900rpm it's both silent from where I sit and still moves enough air to keep my temps about the same at 5volts 1100rpm.
The PSU may actually run cooler, since it doesn't have to compete with the case fan for air.

Not sure if the factory Sonata 120mm fan can start at such low voltages will have to try it.

see thread

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... 7033#47033

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:50 pm

WOw

I turned on my system this morning at 3.30am, and I honestly could not hear it standing in front of the PC which is under the desk on the floor.

Off to the right front/side and 5 metres away I hear a very faint sound, quieter than a whisper. AFter 30 secs your ears just accept that as part of the ambient sound.
I can only notice the PC if you have it off and then turn it on.
If I walk into the room with it already on, I can't tell you if it's on or off

If I sit on the floor directly behind it, then I can hear the fans.

All in all I am very happy now!
I think this is about as good as it gets for a system with fans, and as much power as I have in my system and it is overclocked.

I honestly don't think sound damping the case would help much. If components are quiet then you don't need them. Most of the noise is radiated from the back through the fan exahust holes anyway. Maybe a muffler would help. In fact 90% of the audible noise is air turbulence , because if I listen to the fans from the sucking side, It's pretty quiet, but on the exhaust side, you cna hear the air rushing sounds.

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:42 pm

Tom Brown wrote:No.

I used the 4 pin molex plug but I reversed the red and orange wires in the female molex connector (I left the male pass-through unchanged as I don't use it).

This mod is easily done but takes some patience as it can be a little bit finiky to extract the pins from the conenctor. If you want to use the pass through connector, you'll have to swap the male connector too.
-- Tom

hmm I just realised, that I have an unused Zalman Multi-connector http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product ... ector1.htm

from my ZM80C's optional fan kit (OP1)! Damn I could could run the 120mm fan at 5volts with this gadget

vulture99 · Post by **vulture99** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:51 pm

I've searched the forums to find more info on how to switch out the stock PSU fan with an L1A, but haven't found much. I opened the PSU tonight to have a look, and don't quite see how to do the swap. I mean, it would be easy enough to clip the wires leading to the existing fan and just solder them to the L1A's leads. However, the L1A only has two wires (at least the ones at directron.com do), and it looks like that would keep me from using the fan-control features built in to the PSU.

Is that what you guys have done - just attach the L1A using two wires and let it run full speed all the time? Or am I missing something?

Thank you

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:13 am

hmmm did you read?

read

this thread, and these

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... 7&start=30

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=7566

http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =83&page=1

if you only have 2 wires, then you need to buy a panaflo 3 pin header. These pop straight on.
http://www.pccasegear.com/prod19.htm

Mine came with a 2 pin header, I cut off the small tabs that stick out from it, popped off the pin cover on the PSU and slot it in. Pretty straight foprward

grandpa_boris · Post by **grandpa_boris** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:52 am

CoolColJ wrote: hmm I just realised, that I have an unused Zalman Multi-connector http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product ... ector1.htm

only if you have a 3 pin or bare leat fan! if your fan already has a 4 pin molex on it (as mine are), the 3pin-to-4pin convertor is more labor or money than resplicing a 4pin molex extension wire. nor do i have the multi-connector handy (but it does look nice!)

after reading tom's posting, i was inspired to finally move the 120mm fans in my sonata to 5V. so far i only converted the front-side fan. i tried using a 120mm papst NGL there, but it was too noisy @ 12V. instead i used an 80mm papst NGL (temporarily jerry-rigged up in the most awful way -- by suspending it on a rubber band

). it was was near silent. i just re-spliced a spare 4 pin molex extension cable to put the 5V line where 12 V is supposed to be, connected it to the 120mm fan and found that it was all but silent.

next step: rip out the horrid Y&T rear fan

along with the fanmate that is under-volting it and replace it with something more palatable.

grandpa_boris · Post by **grandpa_boris** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:28 am

starsky wrote:Am I missing something here, isn't the FAN ONLY connector off the Antec Power Supply 5v already ?

whether it's 5v or temperature controlled matters only if your power supply is a genuine antec true380 and has the "fan only" connector. people who built my system replaced sonata's native PSU with something else that has a "w/noise killer" and "w/PFC" stickers on the underside, but no other indentifying information. don't know why decided to do that, perhaps because they decided that the power supply was too noisy? the replacement is a quiet PSU, but it doesn't have the "fan only" connector. so a 5V mod is just right for me!

energy · Post by **energy** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:18 am

grandpa_borris, from thos stickers it sounds like an FSP based PSU - if it is quiet they probably knew what they were doing, and replaced the noisy PSU with a Zalman or Nexus which are much better.

spacey · Post by **spacey** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:08 am

can someone explain how putting elevating the case above the carpet helps? cuz i'm on carpet... might wanna look into that for my sonata as well.

energy · Post by **energy** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:58 am

It makes the flow of air into the case from the hole below the front bezel much easier - by lifting the front of the case off the ground there is a noticeable increase of airflow from the exhaust fan.

grandpa_boris · Post by **grandpa_boris** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:17 am

energy wrote:grandpa_borris, from thos stickers it sounds like an FSP based PSU - if it is quiet they probably knew what they were doing, and replaced the noisy PSU with a Zalman or Nexus which are much better.

that's my take on it, too. looking at the photos in MikeC's reviews of power supplies, mine looks like either Nexus NX3000 or its first cousin on mother's side. i am pretty sure that's what it is, now that i spent time looking at he photos and what the people who built my system usually use.

the only problem i have with this sonata box now is the irritating T&T fan that's gotten a lot noisier in the last 6 months. they now stock and use papst 4412 FGL 120mm fans, but i recall that they didn't have any 120mm fans advertised when i ordered my box. i'll be replacing that T&T with either a panaflo FBK-12G12LH (just bought it, should be shipping soon) or if it turns out to be too noisy or non-starter @ 5V, order another 4412 FGL or try an L1A.

Sonata success... I'm happy

Sonata success... I'm happy

Re: Sonata success... I'm happy

Re: Sonata success... I'm happy

Info on how to switch out Sonata PSU fan?