Antec NSK-1480 + PicoPSU

max789 · Post by **max789** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:31 pm

Hi, all

As a newbie who knows very little about PSUs in general and the PicoPSU in particular, I wonder if I might seek a few pointers from fellow forum members about using the PicoPSU with the Antec NSK-1480.

My setup:
ASRock H55M Pro mobo
Intel i3-530 (with stock HSF)
2 x ATI HD5450 video cards
Intel X25-V 40GB SSD
2 x Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
WD Caviar Green 1.5GB drive
Samsung DVD burner

(1) Which PicoPSU is appropriate for my setup? Would something like PicoPSU-150-XT (150W 12v ATX) or PicoPSU M3-ATX (125w output, 6v to 24v) be needed? One concern is that, even though the ATI HD5450 has a low TDP, its specifications recommend the use of a 350W PSU as a minimum.

(2) What sort of power brick is appropriate? I've an old power brick for a Thinkpad T21 and also a Targus one (multi-brand) for the same notebook, and wonder if either will do the job.

The specifications for the MT-350 PSU which comes with the NSK-1480.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/g ... C_6265.jpg

Thanks in advance for your input and feedback!

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:25 pm

What's the purpose behind two 5450s? If you want to increase gaming performance using Crossfire, you're generally better off with a single, more powerful card than two cheapies. Your options are kind of limited in a low profile case like the NSK-1480, though (I'd assume this is why you're Xfiring two weaker cards), but you'd probably be better off with a single 5570. This is about the best ATI card available in a low profile form factor, and performs better than Xfire 5450. Or you could potentially Crossfire two 5570s, which appears to be comparable to a single 5750.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3121/ ... ndex7.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3127/s ... ndex8.html

Also, power consumption of the 5450 and 5570 is minuscule, I wouldn't worry too much about it. 5570 uses about 19w while gaming, and 5450 about 9w. So even with Crossfire 5570, you shouldn't exceed 40w for the graphics cards.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... 450_6.html

Anyway, PicoPSU-150-XT should work great with a system like that. Stay away from the wide input models, you want +12V input. Mini-box sells a 150w fanless AC adapter that works well with the 150 XT.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:32 pm

I use that case and psu for my htpc. It's a decent Seasonic-made unit. I've done a simple mod on the PSU to make it run very quietly. It handles 1080p w/o any problem and draws <35W at low/idle load, max ~50W in normal use, usually under 45W in video play.

1) You have read this, right? http://www.silentpcreview.com/Antec-NSK1480
check out the PS box on the last page.

2) why do you want 2 video cards in there?

max789 · Post by **max789** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:14 am

Thanks for the prompt and helpful replies, frostedflakes and MikeC.

Using two HD5450 (each with a DisplayPort output) is an economical way to drive six displays, but not for gaming. With the half-height brackets supplied, they fit inside the NSK-1480.

frostedflakes wrote:Anyway, PicoPSU-150-XT should work great with a system like that. Stay away from the wide input models, you want +12V input. Mini-box sells a 150w fanless AC adapter that works well with the 150 XT.

Thanks for your pointers and suggestion, frostedflakes. This is the one you've in mind, isn't it?
http://www.mini-box.com/12v-12-5A-AC-DC-Power-Adapter

The new 160-XT looks good, too. I may go for it, but perhaps a more powerful power supply (say 200W peak) is warranted?
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT

BTW, your NSK-3300 build looks wonderful. If I ever need a rig with a similar configuration, I know where to look for inspiration!

MikeC wrote:I use that case and psu for my htpc. It's a decent Seasonic-made unit. I've done a simple mod on the PSU to make it run very quietly. It handles 1080p w/o any problem and draws <35W at low/idle load, max ~50W in normal use, usually under 45W in video play.

1) You have read this, right? http://www.silentpcreview.com/Antec-NSK1480
check out the PS box on the last page.

Of course I've read the SPCR review, MikeC.

(Thrice, in fact.) The review and its PS actually convince me that the NSK-1480 is preferable to the NSK-1380 for my purposes.

This computer will be on for long periods daily (typically 13-14 hours) which may be a little taxing for the supplied PSU. I live outside the US and getting hold of a replacement MT-350 will be somewhat time-consuming and expensive. PicoPSUs, on the other hand, can be bought quite easily and inexpensively on eBay (due to their low weight). Hence, using a PicoPSU is a contingency plan as well as a useful experience for future low-noise computing needs.

Not being a DIY person, I currently use a Dell Precision workstation with three video cards. For a number of reasons, I want to see if an NSK-1480 as configured above will work better. The learning curve is a bit steep (esp. the PicoPSU part) but hopefully it will be a worthwhile investment. If things go well a second NSK-1480 using onboard graphics may be built and used as an HTPC.

Thanks again for all the wonderful materials on SPCR and this forum, MikeC. Truly invaluable!

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:16 am

6 monitors! out of curiosity, what's the application?

Since you're staying with the stock Intel HSF and mention concerns about the strain of 13-14 hrs daily operation on the PSU, it sounds like noise reduction is not the reason for wanting to go with the PicoPSU.

If this is the case, I would point out that 13-14 hrs daily operation is no strain for the stock PSU with your planned system, which will probably not exceed 100W DC even at full load. Seasonics are all 80+ or better, pretty durable, and that fan-cooled 350w model is far more powerful than any of the 12vdc fanless power bricks you're considering. A quick web search shows replacements for this PSU seem readily available from wide variety of online sellers in the US & Canada & I'd be surprised if an email to Antec wouldn't give you the opportunity to buy one directly from them or a distributor near you. http://www.google.com/products?hl=&q=antec+mt350 (fyi, my 1480-based htpc has been running continuously 24/7 since... that review 8 mos ago.)

In short, unless your aim is very low noise, I really can't see any way in which the picopsu is better than the stock psu, and several ways in which the reverse is true.

adisega · Post by **adisega** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:09 pm

Hello.

In the following post I have detailed the way I used the 150W PicoPSU together with a modded Dell 12V 12.5A power adapter (I had to replace the original connector).

viewtopic.php?p=503768#503768

The setup has changed slightly in the meantime: the hdd has been replaced by a 64GB Kingston SSD, the 2GB Corsair memory has been upgraded to 4GB Kingston HyperX, the CPU has been replaced with a 5400, overclocked at 3.24GHz, and the CPU cooler is now a Big Shuriken, running at 700 RPM (I believe, the lowest setting).

I must also add that there are now 4 x 60mm fans inside the case (the picture is a bit old), because the temps under heavy load did go pretty much higher than I have stated in the original post. Three of these fans are connected to 7V, therefor inaudible, while the 4th is connected to the power card connector, replacing the original one (inaudible as well, even when the card gets hotter and the fan speed is increased).

Now... and this is the sad part... after about 3 months of using the system for gaming only (it's my playstation, I don't use it for anything else), I started running into sudden reboots. Monitoring the system parameters, it became clear that the problem was the 12V input.
While the 3.3V and the 5V are very good, the PicoPSU, as I understand, has no way of stabilizing the 12V value. At idle, this would be somewhere above 11.7V, but under heavy load, the last values I was able to see before reboot where as low as 10.5V!

Changing the AC adapter with a 84W one, 12V 7A, I did get a slightly higher 12V value in idle, but under load it crashed even faster. This is probably normal, since 84W is nowhere near enough for this setup, under load.

My point is that the AC adapter is extremely important if you want to use the PicoPSU for a relatively potent computer, gaming or otherwise. That being said, I must admit I am pretty surprised that the Dell adapter cannot hold the 12V where it should stay (or maybe I am blaming the wrong component...)

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:45 pm

adisega -- are you getting those 12V line readings from a software utility or with a multimeter tapping an unused 12V output line. I ask because if it's a software utility, then there's a chance it could be something on the motherboard.You might want to confirm that the actual output from the power brick is sagging by using a multimeter.

adisega · Post by **adisega** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:23 pm

Software utility and BIOS Reading.

I don't think that it's the motherboard, because right now, to be able to play games, I have the computer powered from a very cheap 400W PSU (the case plus the PSU are the cheapest one can find in Romania, under 20$ - actually, I bought them for parts, for the mod - kind of ironic, getting to the point where I am forced to actually use the cheap PSU, even if for a short period of time)
This cheap PSU, with the same system, OS and software utility, provides above 12V at idle and around 11.7-11.8 under heavy load, even for extended periods of time (hours and hours).

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:32 pm

adisega -- ok. sounds like your power adapter is cooked.

adisega · Post by **adisega** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:07 am

Yeah... I thought so...

The question is:
Can we really use the PicoPSU for such loads?
I mean, my Dell power adapter is by no means cheap, or brand-less, and at the same time it's not even used at maximum (I am sure the load power consumption does not reach 150W for my setup).
If such a power adapter fails after 3 months, can one hope it was an accident, and go buy another adapter?
Or is it simply not smart to expect this much from any power adapter?
That would be pretty dissapointing, because it means the PicoPSU cannot be used for things more complex than a server or a HTPC. And, let's face it, the Holy Grail is a (reasonably) powerfull but quiet computer that can be used for gaming, as well.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:47 am

The problem in your case is most likely a broken adapter. I have two PicoPSU setups (one with a Dell DA-2 and one with an Edac 110W adapter). The Dell power adapter is pretty cheap actually, the DA-2 is usually around 30$ on EBay.

I had problems with a low +12v rail until I did a little work with the wiring. If you have a multimeter you should check the voltage at the brick and compare with the voltage you get at the PicoPSU.

adisega · Post by **adisega** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:08 am

Vicotnik wrote:The problem in your case is most likely a broken adapter.

As I was saying, I agree with this conclusion. But, did it brake because I was unlucky and got a faulty one, or ANY Dell DA-1 (or similar) adapter would die the same death under this load?

Vicotnik wrote:I have two PicoPSU setups (one with a Dell DA-2 and one with an Edac 110W adapter).

What kind of loads are we talking about in these two setups? What video cards are you using? I have a 5570 in mine, which is definitely the most power hungry component in this computer, at least when talking about the 12V line.

Vicotnik wrote: The Dell power adapter is pretty cheap actually, the DA-2 is usually around 30$ on EBay.

First of all, I failed to make myself clear, as I was trying to say "cheap" as in "poorly made".
On the other hand, I have payed about 45 Euro for my Dell DA-1, from a local store. Buying it from Ebay would also add delivery costs, ending up with the same price, probably (if not more expensive).

Vicotnik wrote:I had problems with a low +12v rail until I did a little work with the wiring. If you have a multimeter you should check the voltage at the brick and compare with the voltage you get at the PicoPSU.

I have connected both 12V rails from the adapter to the picoPSU input. The multimeter shows 12V at the brick, but that is normal, as there is no load on it. I must admit I did not take any measurement at the PicoPSU, I mean at the point where the two input wires are connected to the PCB. Unfortunately I cannot try that until Monday, so I will return with an answer at that time.

The question remains: has anybody been using the 150W PicoPSU with a video card like ATI's 5570 for a few months, without running into stability issues, due to failing power bricks? I am not sure I want to spend another 45-50 Euros on a new power brick, heading down the same road again.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:24 am

adisega wrote:The question remains: has anybody been using the 150W PicoPSU with a video card like ATI's 5570 for a few months, without running into stability issues, due to failing power bricks? I am not sure I want to spend another 45-50 Euros on a new power brick, heading down the same road again.

5570 is pretty lightweight, it's 6.8W idle, 19W load according to Xbitlabs. I don't think that's the problem.

adisega · Post by **adisega** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:41 am

I am blaming the video card because:
- at idle, the software utility measures about 11.7 - 11.9 V
- with CPU stressed (Stability Test, for example), the value drops very little.
- when I stress the video card (Furmark or Ati tool), the 12V value drops first to around 10.8 - 10.9V, and after a few minutes, sometimes seconds, it goes down to 10.5 - 10.6V, then ... Reboot!

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:10 am

I had the same problem before I redrew the wiring in my system. At the brick the voltage was ok, but measured from a molex it was way to low. I then shortened the cable running from the brick, removed the weak barrel connector that comes with the PicoPSU and fed the motherboard 4pin +12v connector directly from the brick. That solved the problem. The +12v rail that had been dipping to 11.4v or something like that was stable no matter how heavily I loaded the system.

Get a multimeter and get some reliable readings, the monitoring programs aren't giving you any real numbers. If you have a good reading at the brick but not at a molex when you stress the system, then it's the wiring. If the brick is fried you will have a low reading also at the brick.

adisega · Post by **adisega** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:20 pm

Vicotnik wrote:Get a multimeter and get some reliable readings, the monitoring programs aren't giving you any real numbers. If you have a good reading at the brick but not at a molex when you stress the system, then it's the wiring.

Well, I followed your advice, and I got some very interesting results.
First of all, I cut off the 4-pin connector I had soldered at the end of the adapter's cable, to match the PicoPSU's 4-pin (not barrel) connector.
I then simply shoved the wires from the adapter inside the PicoPSU's input 4-pin connector, no soldering, just to take some quick measurements.

I took the measurement at three points:
V1. At the end of the adapter's cable, where it meets the PicoPSU's 4-pin input connector;
V2. Where the input cable is connected to the PicoPSU's PCB.
V3. At a Molex connector.

Fourth value, V4, is the software utility's reading.

Results:

Load level / Measured values____V1_____V2_____V3____V4
Idle_______________________12.01___11.9___11.82__11.827
CPU Load (Stability test)______11.9____11.79__11.68__11.669
GPU Load (Furmark)_________ 11.87___11.58__11.43__11.246

My conclusions:
1) Since I got no more reboots, and the value never dropped below 11.2, the problem seems to have been either with my soldering, or with the connector soldered on the power adapter.
2) The values still drop on load, but the system is stable. Since the biggest losses are between V1 and V2, it is ok, because, as I was saying, I simply shoved the cables inside the PicoPSU's 4-pin input connector (no soldering).
3) All I have to do now is find a better way to connect the adapter to the PicoPSU.
4) I find it interesting that the values reported by the software utility actually ARE pretty close to the Molex measurements (maybe except for the GPU load ones).

Obviously, I must thank you, Vicotnik, for proving me wrong. Indeed, the adapter seems to be quite alright (probably, I should also apologize to DELL, for blaming their adapter

)

Now, to go back to max789's questions, I believe that this combination would be great for your setup, too: PicoPSU 150W (or the 160 one, if you prefer) + Dell's DA-1 adapter, 12V 12.5A (or the DA-2, but it is more expensive, and probably overkill at 18A). Obviously, you should learn from my mistakes and pay attention at the way you connect the adapter to the pico.

Antec NSK-1480 + PicoPSU

Antec NSK-1480 + PicoPSU

picopsu / ac adapter