Yesico OpenAir? What do you think of mesh cases?

nim-nim · Post by **nim-nim** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:00 pm

Hi,

I'd like to know what you'd think of a setup based on a Yesico OpenAir case
http://www.yesico.de/products/p_openair.htm
http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/Plus_700812-002.php

Something like:

Yesico OpenAir
Asus A8V Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 3000+
Thermalright XP-120 + Papst 4412F/2GL 5V
Antec Phantom 350
Fanless Gecube Radeon 9200
Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350
Pioneer DVR 108
3 × Maxtor DiamondMax 10 SATA

-> only remaining fan : Papst 4412F/2GL 5V

Would this setup work ? How quiet would it be ? Would it support summer temperatures (up to 40 ° C) ?

It's interesting to see Yesico takes the same approach as A-Tech http://www.atechfabrication.com/product ... c_6000.htm except the Yesico case is available now, is more roomy and will probably not be in the same price range.

Tyrdium · Post by **Tyrdium** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:15 pm

Huh, interesting... So, basically, the entire case is covered in mesh?

nim-nim · Post by **nim-nim** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:20 pm

Yep. And both makers said they worked with fanless PSUs in mind.

Seems mesh is a natural for passive components. Now if only scythe made a little more progress we may get affordable fully passive systems

york · Post by **york** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:23 pm

Mines pretty much like that sept Cheap

http://www.directron.com/ams7089.html
The side panels acrylic are warped, not damaged so they angle out I just took them off looks fine.

Temps are 36c idle, 44 folding
amd 2100
zalman 7000
seasonic 350 tornado
120mm upfront no rear fans

Ive wanted to mod the back to fit a 120mm instead of 2 80's but its a tight fit so Ive held off on it until i do a whole system upgrade to amd 64 and a xp120 which will be a while most likely.

Tyrdium · Post by **Tyrdium** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:29 pm

Is the arcrylic flexible? If so, you could probably beat it back into shape with a mallet... 20 bucks is a good price for a case.

york · Post by **york** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:37 pm

yes it is I could use a heat gun on it if I really wanted to but meh..
I cut the fan holes out and made the drives bungee'd If I had a camera id gladly share but I havent picked one out yet.

Oh I also live in Florida so far its handled the heat, tho it is winter and is a all cold here at 85 degrees so I had to put some socks on burr.

nim-nim · Post by **nim-nim** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:43 pm

But is the result quiet ?

york · Post by **york** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:52 pm

Yes to me it is. Zalman is running at low, 120mm fan is on a fanmate, seasonic never ramps up.
my evercool 120mm does have bearing click though I hope the orange nexus type fans listed under the fans section will change all that for me.

the real issue for me was the leds power buttons on it that glow a bright blue and orange which ended up getting unplugged so I could sleep at night.
Seeing what you want to put in it it would be alot quiter i'd think

nim-nim · Post by **nim-nim** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:08 pm

I certainly hope so

What I fear with this case if cooling proves inefficient the two optional 120 mm fans won't help much and they won't be dampened by all this mesh

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:58 am

nim-nim wrote:... + Papst 4412F/2GL 5V
...
3 × Maxtor DiamondMax 10 SATA

If you read the review of the Coolermaster Centurion 5 mid-tower case, you can see a comment how the mesh front lets the noise of the HDs escape from the case. The Yessico case has even more mesh, so the noise from the drives has more paths to escape. This makes it extremely important to use only the quietest components inside. The Maxtor DM10 does not fall into that category. I'd use a quiet notebook HD (Fujitsu or Samsung) as system drive. For the data drives I'd put one or two Samsung Spinpoint 3.5" HDs in enclosures and suspend the enclosures.

The Nexus 120mm fan is considered slightly better in that application than a Papst 4412F/2GL. See: The Top SPCR Quiet 120mm Axial Fans Compared + 120mmAC Fans.

The question is though if you want to pay the price. Yessico stuff usually is not cheap, the Antec Phantom is expensive, good enclosures cost as much as half a HD. There are examples on this forum of setups that are much less expensive and at least as quiet or even more quiet.

nim-nim · Post by **nim-nim** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:01 am

Tibors wrote:I'd use a quiet notebook HD (Fujitsu or Samsung) as system drive.

Won't happen

I do care about data safety, so RAID 1 or 5 is mandatory for me. Notebook PC's are underperforming and expensive - I'd rather spend the money on 512 or 1024 GB of memory so the system runs from RAM most of the time (Linux is actually way better than Windows for this)

Tibors wrote: For the data drives I'd put one or two Samsung Spinpoint 3.5" HDs in enclosures and suspend the enclosures.

Something like http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/product_i ... ts_id=1660

Is it that much better than the Maxtor in silent mode? FYI street prices here are:

Maxtor 160Go 7200 RPM S-ATA (DiamondMax 10): 80 €
Seagate 160Go 7200 RPM S-ATA (Barracuda 7200.7): 87 €
Hitachi 160Go 7200 RPM S-ATA 7K250: 89 €
WD 160Go 7200 RPM S-ATA special edition: 89 €
Maxtor 200Go 7200 RPM S-ATA (DiamondMax 10): 93 €
Seagate 160Go 7200 RPM S-ATA NCQ (Barracuda 7200.7) : 96 €
WD 200Go 7200 RPM S-ATA special edition: 105 €
Samsung 160 Go 7200 RPM S-ATA : 105,44 € (can't find it on the street, so shipping included - it's ~ 100 € without shipping)

As you can see the Samsung is way overpriced. It it so much better noise-wise ?

Tibors wrote: The Nexus 120mm fan is considered slightly better in that application than a Papst 4412F/2GL. See: The Top SPCR Quiet 120mm Axial Fans Compared + 120mmAC Fans

Right but the Papst is very easy to find here while the Nexus would need to be imported I fear

(In fact I see I can get the 4412F/2GLL which would be even quieter than the 4412F/2GL)

Tibors wrote:The question is though if you want to pay the price. Yessico stuff usually is not cheap,

Well, the case is available at 79,99 €, which is not a budget price but very reasonable (the Antec SLK 3700 BQE is quoted at 92 €)

Tibors wrote:the Antec Phantom is expensive

I'm specing an always-on system so a good efficient PSU is a must

Tibors wrote:good enclosures cost as much as half HD.

What enclosure do you have in mind ? I must admit I was thinking about cheap DIY suspension at first.

Tibors wrote:There are examples on this forum of setups that are much less expensive and at least as quiet or even more quiet.

Well if I want an efficient PSU like the phantom, what quiet/more quiet setup would you suggest ?

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:47 am

How about you start with putting your location in your profile? That way people can give you better advice since not everything is availlable all over the world. My guess is you're living in France, because of the euro prices and the shop you listed.

nim-nim wrote:
Tibors wrote:I'd use a quiet notebook HD (Fujitsu or Samsung) as system drive.
Won't happen I do care about data safety, so RAID 1 or 5 is mandatory for me. Notebook PC's are underperforming and expensive - I'd rather spend the money on 512 or 1024 GB of memory so the system runs from RAM most of the time (Linux is actually way better than Windows for this)

Sorry, but your reasoning is mixed up. Your mixing data safety with sytem drive.

With three drives I was assuming you'd use one drive for your operating system and programs. You need less than 10GB for it, but you can't buy modern HDs that small. 30GB or 40GB 2.5" HDs are ~€65 + ~€5 for an adapter. That's less than the prices of the SATA HDs you listed. So what that they are smaller, you don't need more for a system disk. You don't need RAID for the system disk, one back-up of the completely installed system should suffice. The performance benefits of a good 3.5" are almost neglible in real life use. (See somewhere in the reviews on the main SPCR site.) I know the results of synthetic benchmarks. I really don't care for them. The most you will notice the performance difference is during startup, but you're building an 24/7 machine, so... One last thing; if you're going to install a windows system on the SATA drives you listed or a RAID array, don't forget you need a floppy drive or a modified install CD.

You don't have to change your opinion

, but I wanted to make more clear why I advised to use a notebook HD.

For data drives I can understand why you want to use RAID 1 or 5.

nim-nim wrote:Something like http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/product_i ... ts_id=1660

Is it that much better than the Maxtor in silent mode?

Yes, that's the one. For a discussion about the Maxtor DM10 see this thread.

nim-nim wrote:Right but the Papst is very easy to find here while the Nexus would need to be imported I fear (In fact I see I can get the 4412F/2GLL which would be even quieter than the 4412F/2GL)

The diference in noise between the Papst and the Nexus is not so much caused by the speed of the fan but by the noise the motor makes. You have to stick a Nexus fan almost into your ear to hear any motor noise. The motor noise from a Papst can easily be noticed. The difference in noise between the two Papsts is caused only by the difference in speed. If you're in France (or any other EU country) you can buy your Nexus fans at http://www.silentpcshop.nl/index.php

nim-nim wrote:What enclosure do you have in mind ?

None

The last time I looked at enclosures (a few month ago) they where either low quality, overheated the drive, way to expensive or any combination thereof. So I can't advice you a specific type. But if you want to stick to the wide open case and three HDs, then enclosures are the only way to get to silence.

nim-nim wrote:Well if I want an efficient PSU like the phantom, what quiet/more quiet setup would you suggest ?

First some efficiency numbers:

Code: Select all

65W	90W	150W	PSU
72%	76%	81%	Antec Phantom 350
78%	80%	80%	Coolermaster RS-450
78%	80%	81%	Seasonic SS300FB
76%	77%	77%	Nexus NX-4090

From the follow reviews:
Antec Phantom 350
Coolermaster RS-450
Seasonic SS300FB
Nexus NX-4090

Then the question: How are you going to use the computer?
A private file server / HTPC based on an A64 with Cool'n'Quiet will draw close to 65W most of the time. If you're running a client of a DC project like Folding@Home, the machine will draw somewhere between 90W and 150W most of the time.

In the power range of a typical HTPC the Phantom suddenly isn't so special anymore. The super high efficiencies mostly occur with loads a normal PC will never see (> 200W).

Looking at this numbers the Seasonic is the way to go. There is a slight problem with that though. The Seasonics in Europe are rev A2, which had a problem with the fan controller. The rev A3's are not availlable here. Next month the new PSU from Seasonic (S12) will be availlable in Europe. Seasonic promised this PSU would be even more efficient. MikeC already has a sample, so there will be a SPCR review somewhere in the comming weeks. Alternatively you could buy a Seasonic now and mod the PSU so the fan spins at a constant speed. This should not really be a problem for a HTPC.

The Coolermaster RS-450 is not silent, but it could get the same fixed fanspeed mod to make it silent.

If you want to keep your warranty the Nexus comes into view. But if you have to ship this from the Netherlands it might have the same price as the Phantom. It is still 4% more efficient at 65W though. If you get this PSU, get the Nexus fans too, 'cause the shipping will be the same for one order.

For ideas how to use the PSU of your choice in a more traditional closed case, just browse the General Gallery and other parts of these forums. There are enough examples here of PC's with one or two fans that produce less noise than the ambient noise. Plus two slow spinning quiet fans make less noise than three HDs.

nim-nim · Post by **nim-nim** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:43 am

Tibors wrote:How about you start with putting your location in your profile? That way people can give you better advice since not everything is availlable all over the world. My guess is you're living in France, because of the euro prices and the shop you listed.

Right, sorry

Tibors wrote:Sorry, but your reasoning is mixed up. Your mixing data safety with sytem drive.

Take some space on the drives an you get system safety cheap.
Which means no time lost reconfiguring your OS when one of your system drives crashes.

Tibors wrote:With three drives I was assuming you'd use one drive for your operating system and programs.

Well, no, as you noted with modern disk sizes a system-only disk is not that great. I was thinking more of one big raid 5 data partition on the three disks, with some space left for a raid 1 system partition & swap space.

I want raid for the system because I don't want to loose time reinstalling when one disk crashes, and with modern network updates keeping up-to-date backups is way annoying (I do plan offline backups every few months)

Tibors wrote:The performance benefits of a good 3.5" are almost neglible in real life use. (See somewhere in the reviews on the main SPCR site.) I know the results of synthetic benchmarks. I really don't care for them. The most you will notice the performance difference is during startup, but you're building an 24/7 machine, so...

Ok, I'll see if I can find a 2.5 with the same capacity for about the same price

Tibors wrote: One last thing; if you're going to install a windows system on the SATA drives you listed or a RAID array, don't forget you need a floppy drive or a modified install CD.

Won't ever happen

Tibors wrote:
nim-nim wrote:Something like http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/product_i ... ts_id=1660

Is it that much better than the Maxtor in silent mode?
Yes, that's the one. For a discussion about the Maxtor DM10 see this thread.

Ok

Tibors wrote:
nim-nim wrote:Right but the Papst is very easy to find here while the Nexus would need to be imported I fear (In fact I see I can get the 4412F/2GLL which would be even quieter than the 4412F/2GL)
The diference in noise between the Papst and the Nexus is not so much caused by the speed of the fan but by the noise the motor makes. You have to stick a Nexus fan almost into your ear to hear any motor noise. The motor noise from a Papst can easily be noticed. The difference in noise between the two Papsts is caused only by the difference in speed. If you're in France (or any other EU country) you can buy your Nexus fans at http://www.silentpcshop.nl/index.php

Oh, yummy, thanks for the tip

Tibors wrote:
nim-nim wrote:What enclosure do you have in mind ?
None The last time I looked at enclosures (a few month ago) they where either low quality, overheated the drive, way to expensive or any combination thereof. So I can't advice you a specific type. But if you want to stick to the wide open case and three HDs, then enclosures are the only way to get to silence.

Ok, no luck here

Tibors wrote:Then the question: How are you going to use the computer?

File server, mail server (with mail filtering), PVR, dvd reader...

Tibors wrote:Looking at this numbers the Seasonic is the way to go. There is a slight problem with that though. The Seasonics in Europe are rev A2, which had a problem with the fan controller. The rev A3's are not availlable here. Next month the new PSU from Seasonic (S12) will be availlable in Europe. Seasonic promised this PSU would be even more efficient. MikeC already has a sample, so there will be a SPCR review somewhere

Ok, will wait a bit then. Seems lots of new stuff is being announced right now anyway.

Tibors wrote:For ideas how to use the PSU of your choice in a more traditional closed case, just browse the General Gallery and other parts of these forums. There are enough examples here of PC's with one or two fans that produce less noise than the ambient noise. Plus two slow spinning quiet fans make less noise than three HDs.

Thanks for all the advice! I can see you're not overwhelmed with the mesh case concept. I'll look around a bit more before buying anything then.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:50 am

V-Tech cases have a lot of mesh,all lined with filters,nice detailing,front LED readout and 1/2 the price of Sonata but making it quiet involes nice big slow exaust fans and some offset baffles so airflow stays good but sound has few direct line paths-have been helping a guy who is doing an A64 Winchester3000,3 spinrights,Juli@ 24/192 soundcard an NF-4 mobo

grandpa_boris · Post by **grandpa_boris** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:23 am

ronrem wrote:V-Tech cases have a lot of mesh

from looking at the photos of V-Tech cases, i am perplexed by the fan grills design. looks wrong for a good airflow. both V-Tech and AMS cases look like they'll require some dremel time.