Updated Antec NSK3300, the new NSK3400

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:31 am

Hello,

The intake slots on the back of the PS look pretty restrictive -- they are prime candidates for the "twist them 90 degrees with a pair of needle nose pliers" mod!

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:13 am

Chris Chan wrote:One thing I never understood about the NSK3300/3400 - why not have an HDD mount on the front case panel? It works for my sister's Emachines T1100.

From a silence point of view, this is imo a bad location for hard drive. It's easy for a hard drive to be the loudest component in a computer and this would exacerbate the problem, by putting the loudest component closer to the users ears (Especially, if the front grill is unrestricted).

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:44 am

You have a plastic front panel to block the noise though. Or maybe I am just approaching this with the assumption that one will use a 2.5" HDD as is in my sister's box.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:03 am

Chris Chan wrote:You have a plastic front panel to block the noise though.

From my experience, they don't help much. I know I'm not the only one in these forums that believes that noise escapes from the front openings too easily.

Or maybe I am just approaching this with the assumption that one will use a 2.5" HDD as is in my sister's box.

Maybe. But I see no benefits that the vertical hard mount would have over the hard drive mount in NSK3300. Actually I believe it's inferior in every way. It exposes the user to more direct hard drive noise, it will most likely resonate more and it disrupts the case airflow. Maybe that is what the Antec engineers were thinking aswell...

Well it would have the benefit of mounting one more hard drive in the case...

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:30 pm

It'd have also the benefit of not blocking the bottom PCI slot or bottom optical bay. It will resonate no more assuming that the silicone grommets are used. One more thing - I have a different concept of the front HDD bay that is basically the same as in my sister's emachines case. I'll tear the box apart to take pics.

Shaman · Post by **Shaman** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:16 pm

This must be coming out real soon, I think this is gonna be my next case, unless a silent cute shoebox style case comes out before it.

Does anyone know the reasoning for the HDD mount at the bottom being so deep into the case? Is it to put the HD further away from the user and thus reduce noise? If it was closer to the front of the case, it a) wouldn't block a PCI slot and b) would be in the right spot to get cooled by a 5v fan at the front.

It can be modded to be closer to the front I guess, or one could move the mount to the front of the case and only secure it with 2 screws at the back.

Chocolinx · Post by **Chocolinx** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:13 pm

Well the only other good spot to put the HDD is in the 5.25" bay but that's even closer than the bottom of the front benzel (more noise again). Another idea would be, to shove it right into the front benzel laying flat then surround it by some type of foam to absorb the noise. Other than that. There are no other choices.

Personally I like this http://www.coolermaster.com/index.php?L ... 0ATX%20540 case over the NSK3300. It's got an upside down design. Only thing I'd do to it though is probably remove the HDD cage at the bottom.

Shaman · Post by **Shaman** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:53 am

A google search in english for NSK3400 turns up mostly aussie stores claiming to have this case for sale. However from the number of vents at the top it's clear they are using a NSK3300 picture, and they say "380W SFX PSU".

Was this case always called NSK3400 in Australia? Or are these stores using false advertising just to show up in the results of people looking for the new case?

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:15 pm

I wonder if that PSU will be available as a standalone part? It should fit in a NSK3300 case without modding, based on the picture showing where it lies in relation to the old cable routing slot. I find the fan on the NSK3300 PSU is by far the loudest in my system. I'm thinking about trying to replace the fan, but would probably just replace the whole PSU if the one from the NSK3400 is quieter and available at a decent price.

Shaman · Post by **Shaman** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:24 pm

jessekopelman wrote:I wonder if that PSU will be available as a standalone part? It should fit in a NSK3300 case without modding, based on the picture showing where it lies in relation to the old cable routing slot.

I think that slot you're seeing in the NSK3400 is not the old cable routing slot, but the new ATA cable slot for the optical drive.

The PSU used in the NSK3400 appears to be a standard Antec PSU like the one that comes with the NSK2400. Fitting this PSU in the NSK3300 would require extensive modding, like enlarging the hole of the back panel for example, and moving the cable slot further to the friont of the case etc. The small top vents in the NSK3300 would probably not be enough to let the PSU breathe properly either.

Lloyd84 · Post by **Lloyd84** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:29 pm

Aaargh! I can't believe I missed this. I just built a new computer less than two weeks ago with a Silverstone TJ08 + Seasonic S12 550w. Combined they cost $320AUD, and the 3400 is retailing for $135AUD.

*Grumbles*

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:39 am

Thanks for the insight, Shaman. Right after I posted I realized that my idea was fairly silly. If it really were a custom PSU that could fit both NSK3300 and 3400, it would probably cost at least $50 as a standalone part and at that point it would be smarter to just pay $100, buy the entire NSK3400, and get the superior cable management to boot. The NSK3400, with only some fairly minor changes is actually a huge improvement over the NSK3300 once you are familiar with the flaws of the earlier model. My only complaint is why not keep the PSU at 300W, while still switching to ATX. Such a small case is never going to be a good fit for power hungry applications and lower peak Wattage means better efficiency at the the lower draws that real life requires 90% of the time. Better efficiency means less heat, which means less PSU fan noise. It's really too bad PSU Wattage is the new MHz. We need a PSU manufacturer to come along and educate people that you're better off spending your money on quietness and efficiency than raw Wattage.

Shaman · Post by **Shaman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:30 am

jessekopelman wrote:My only complaint is why not keep the PSU at 300W, while still switching to ATX. Such a small case is never going to be a good fit for power hungry applications

I don't see why this case can't house a power hungry system.

It has very good ventilation, and plenty of room for a small mATX case. No drive cages at the front means you can put long high-end graphics card in it, an 8800GTX would probably fit (not sure), and if you put the HDD at the top you could stuff two GTX's in SLI mode. There's also some highly overclockable mATX motherboards out there (more for AMD though). This wouldn't be a quiet system anymore of course, and you would have to get a much higher wattage PSU, but I think that's what Antec wants us to do - all those extra vents they put at the top are there for when you put your own 120mm fan PSU upside down. The only problem would be where to put the dual raptors.

This is far from the typical SPCR machine, I just gave these examples to make my point, that just because a case is mATX doesn't mean you can't build a small monster inside it.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:58 pm

Shaman, my point is not that you can't put a power hungry beat in this case, but that doing so is not practical. I guess such things are relative. While some might appreciate the challenge of trying to cram a lot of stuff into a tiny case and then try and figure out a way to keep it from overheating, that is surely not the mainstream customer even for DIY computing. My own style is to go more minimalistic -- how can I optimize my components to balance things like cost/efficiency/performance/quiet/ease of installation and maintenance? Anyway, I think you have to agree that most people do not need > 300W PSU and that the inflation of average Wattage is really all about marketing.

Shaman · Post by **Shaman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:09 pm

Yes you are right, I guess I've been hanging around the hardforum SFF section too much, seems everyone there is into stuffing highly overclocked bleedin edge hardware inside shoebox sized cases.

About the PSU in the NSK3400, if you look through Antec's PSU page you'll see the lowest ATX one they have is 350W. I guess they didn't felt like making a new 300W ATX PSU just for this case.

About 300W being enough for most people, true, as long as it's a high quality and efficient PSU and not a generic one that comes for 'free' in some cases. But by Antec's PSU standards, 300W should be more than enough.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:55 pm

I know 300W is plenty, as that is what I have in my NSK3300

My PC is a E6300 overclocked to 2.1 GHz and I've got one 320 GB HD and one DVD burner. Everything else is on the motherboard. Intel GMA950 graphics are fine for everything but new FPS games, which I don't play anyway. I'm pretty sure my setup would run off a 200W PSU, so I still have headroom to add a medium-end graphics card if I want.

As for Antec not making a small Wattage PSU -- they don't make the 300W PSU in the NSK3300, it's a Seasonic. Anyway, the whole thing speaks to my original point that more PSU companies should focus on good quality PSU with a reasonable Wattage, say 200-400W, instead of cranking out 700W monsters that only people with very extreme configurations need. The problem is that Wattage has become a marketing ploy, with the general public assuming that more is always better. With electricity still relatively very cheap, most people don't see the point of high efficiency PSU operation (highest efficiency will always be close to max load arguing for smaller peak capacity) that only saves them $20/year on their electric bill. If they understood that the inefficiency translated directly into more heat in the case to deal with, they might change their mind. Running the smallest Wattage PSU that is still adequate for your needs means less heat which actually makes it easier to support those SLI/multiple HD/highly overclocked configurations! It's a sad state of affairs that average DIY builder thinks they need a 500-600W PSU even for fairly generic builds.

aztec · Post by **aztec** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:06 am

You could actually make a very good gaming SFF with this case, using an Abit mATX Fatal1ty mobo.

cooling does nto seem to be a problem, though you would still be *limited* to a large capacity drive.

also, too bad they didn't go with a modular PSU. I that that was all the rage.

Shaman · Post by **Shaman** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:34 am

The NSK3400 is already listed on Antec's site, so it must be right around the corner. They're still using NSK3300 pics though.

http://www.antec.com/ec/productDetails.php?ProdID=00340#

jessekopelman, about the PSU, as long as it's quiet and doesn't increase the price of the case, I don't see what the problem is about it having 380W, but that's just me.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:40 am

Shaman, the problem I have with a bigger PSU is that higher peak Wattage usually means less efficiency at lower draw. Your typical PC is in an idle state the majority of the time. This means that the DC draw is like to be less than 150W most of the time. The sweat spot for PSU efficiency is going to be above 70% of peak. Less efficiency means more heat. More heat means faster fan. Faster fan means more noise. Now, PSU makers have gotten better at increasing efficiency at lower utilization. But still, the whole thing is reminiscent of CPU MHz race that didn't end until CPU TDP had reached ridiculous proportions. Proper PSU sizing will lead to quieter PCs. Since Antec is supposedly about quiet and environmentally friendly computing, I'd like to see them be among the first to get out of the Wattage as marketing game and encourage people to "right size" their PSU. It's like undervolting a fan because you don't need the flow it provides at full speed and you don't want the full speed noise either -- you should only buy a 300W PSU, if all you need is 300W. My ranting aside, going to 380W in the NSK3400 is not a big deal and the case would be on my short list if I were on the market.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:56 am

jessekopelman wrote:Shaman, the problem I have with a bigger PSU is that higher peak Wattage usually means less efficiency at lower draw. Your typical PC is in an idle state the majority of the time. This means that the DC draw is like to be less than 150W most of the time. The sweat spot for PSU efficiency is going to be above 70% of peak. Less efficiency means more heat. More heat means faster fan. Faster fan means more noise.

What you said is generally true. BUT...

Let's look at the efficiency of some PSUs at low efficiency (all numbers taken from SPCR article):

Antec Earthwatts 430W
Antec SU-380w (from NSK2400)
Seasonic SS-300SFD 80 Plus
Seasonic S12-330
Seasonic S12 Energy Plus 550

At 40W DC

70.8%
69.8%
81.5%
68.1%
68.8%

This means that only Seasonics 80 Plus matx psus is really effective, but also second loudest. It consumes 9W less then the least efficient of the bunch (S12-330W). Antec SU-380 is loudest at 24dBA at 1m. S12-550 is quietest at 20 dBA at 1m.

At 65W DC

75.6%
76.6%
83.6%
75.5%
78.6%

The difference between the best and the worts is again 9W in AC input (86W vs 77W). A 65W would be a really low consumption anyway. No change in fan speeds or loudness.

At 150W

81.0%
81.6%
84.5%
80.3%
81.9%

Difference between the best and worst is again 9W in AC input (180W vs 189W). SS-300 is now as loud as Antec SU, S12-330 ramps up slightly and is now as "loud" as Antec Earthwatts, No change with Antec S12-550.

What kind of conclusion can you draw from these numbers?

S12-550 EE is more efficient then S12-330 in almost every situation. Actually S12-330 has worst effiency of the bunch at the lowest loads, even lower then Antec PSUs with higher total Wattage rating. Not that 9W means anything around 65W. Any computer could handle that excess heat without fans ramping up.

At 150W, relative differences are even lower and the absolute difference remains the same at 9W. Again this 9W isn't something that would cause your fans to ramp up. At 150W the most efficent of these PSUs is the SS-300SFD 80 Plus, but at the same time it is also the loudest PSU with 25 dBA@1m, Antec SU380 is also objectively just as loud.

At 200W loads quitest of these PSUs would be S12-550W with 20 dBA, Antec Earthwatts would come second with 24 DBA.

So, if someone would follow your logic of lower total wattage and buy S12-330 instead of S12-550W, he would save money on purchase and end up with less efficent and "louder" computer. If he bought SS-300SFD instead of any other of the bunch, he would end up with almost the loudest option.

My point? Even if your general theory is correct, it cannot be applied practically. Best purchase is always the one with best scores from tests. NSK3400 will have the option of using S12-550, that makes it potentially more silent and better then NSK3300 at every load. Whether the stock psu antec is using in NSK3400 will be more silent then NSK3300 will remain to be seen (or heard).

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:57 am

Erssa, I agree with much of what you wrote. That said, you've missed my point. I am complaining about manufacturers using Wattage as a marketing tool. 300W should be plenty for the vast majority of people using a case as small as the NSK3400. That Antec felt the need to put anything more in there is what bothers me. I'm not debating whether you can get high peak output PSU that are efficient over a wide range of outputs and quiet to boot, because we all know you can. The thing is, you shouldn't have to. It is sad that there is more interest in such things than in super quiet lower peak output PSU that are better suited to the vast majority of actual users. It's too bad that it is harder to get a quiet 300W PSU than a quiet 500W PSU

I'd like to see what the vendors could do if they put the same effort into their 300W PSU that it took to get the 500W model so quiet.

Anyway, I think we all agree that switching to ATX PSU support is one of the top improvements of the NSK3400 over the NSK3300, because it grants a whole lot more choice in terms of replacement PSU. Again, there is no question that the NSK3400 is superior to its predecessor. Too bad there's no trade in program

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:11 am

jessekopelman wrote:Erssa, I agree with much of what you wrote. That said, you've missed my point.

No I didn't. I was just pointing out how your response to Shaman didn't really answer his question, since lower watteage doesn't mean better efficiency.

Shaman wrote:jessekopelman, about the PSU, as long as it's quiet and doesn't increase the price of the case, I don't see what the problem is about it having 380W, but that's just me.

You haven't still given a good answer to this. If you can have something just as quiet, efficient and powerful with the same price, why not take it?

I am complaining about manufacturers using Wattage as a marketing tool. 300W should be plenty for the vast majority of people using a case as small as the NSK3400. That Antec felt the need to put anything more in there is what bothers me.

Your qualm is a non-issue, since it wasn't a marketing decision. Antec didn't have a sub 350W atx psu in their line up. It's was more likely a production issue.

KorruptioN · Post by **KorruptioN** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:45 am

I could see Antec putting the SU-380 into this.

Landroval · Post by **Landroval** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:00 am

Erssa wrote:So, if someone would follow your logic of lower total wattage and buy S12-330 instead of S12-550W, he would save money on purchase and end up with less efficent and "louder" computer.

It is not wise to compare different models when finding out about efficiency differences between models of different power/wattage. S12-330W is the normal S12, while that S12-550W is the Energy+ model which is a totally different beast than the S12 standard.

But yeah, I see your point.

Landroval · Post by **Landroval** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:12 am

Antec website says:
"NSK3400 only accepts 5.25" drives up to 175mm/6.9" long." (mistake with inch->cm on the website)

So now I guess it's hunt for the short-enough optical drive for many people.
Mine are over 190mm, so I think it's time to order the NSK3300...

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:29 pm

Landroval wrote:Antec website says:
"NSK3400 only accepts 5.25" drives up to 175mm/6.9" long." (mistake with inch->cm on the website)

So now I guess it's hunt for the short-enough optical drive for many people.
Mine are over 190mm, so I think it's time to order the NSK3300...

Ah, that sucks. Well luckily opticals are cheap these days. I wonder, if a smaller psu would make longer opticals fit?

KorruptioN wrote:I could see Antec putting the SU-380 into this.

I thought this was pretty much granted. Just take a look at the SU-380 in SPCR article here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/ima ... hamber.jpg

And compare it to this:
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4904/nsk3400bql5.jpg

So the good thing, is that SU-380 is extremely efficient, especially at 150-200W loads. And because of the separate thermal chamber, the fan isn't like to never ramp up. I think with a fan swap, this psu will be quite decent in itself.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:52 pm

Erssa wrote:
jessekopelman wrote:Erssa, I agree with much of what you wrote. That said, you've missed my point.
No I didn't. I was just pointing out how your response to Shaman didn't really answer his question, since lower watteage doesn't mean better efficiency.
Shaman wrote:jessekopelman, about the PSU, as long as it's quiet and doesn't increase the price of the case, I don't see what the problem is about it having 380W, but that's just me.
You haven't still given a good answer to this. If you can have something just as quiet, efficient and powerful with the same price, why not take it?

Yes, you did miss my point. I was never trying to suggest that a quiet high Wattage PSU couldn't do the job or that it needed to be replaced. My point was that the problem is that Antec doesn't have a sub-350W PSU in their lineup when sub-350W is what most people actually need! The reason I didn't give a good answer to Shaman's question is because there is nothing wrong with getting a quiet 380W PSU. What is wrong is that it is so hard to get a quiet PSU with a lower Wattage than this. A nit pick, yes. But this is an online forum isn't it?

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:27 pm

jessekopelman wrote:Yes, you did miss my point. I was never trying to suggest that a quiet high Wattage PSU couldn't do the job or that it needed to be replaced. My point was that the problem is that Antec doesn't have a sub-350W PSU in their lineup when sub-350W is what most people actually need! The reason I didn't give a good answer to Shaman's question is because there is nothing wrong with getting a quiet 380W PSU. What is wrong is that it is so hard to get a quiet PSU with a lower Wattage than this. A nit pick, yes. But this is an online forum isn't it?

I still think, that there is no good reason to want a 300W psu, if a 380W does the same thing and more, at the exactly same efficiency and price. It's like buying a 5 geared car , that is limited to using only 4 of those 5 gears. Or complaining that why aren't car dealers selling cars, that have their top speeds limited to 120km/h, because it's fast enough for most people. When you could have a car with 180km/h top speed for the same price, it's just doesn't make sense to limit yourself just for the sake of limiting.

jessekopelman wrote:Shaman, my point is not that you can't put a power hungry beat in this case, but that doing so is not practical. I guess such things are relative. While some might appreciate the challenge of trying to cram a lot of stuff into a tiny case and then try and figure out a way to keep it from overheating, that is surely not the mainstream customer even for DIY computing.

As to this earlier comment. I think it is just as practical as putting a power hungry system in a big case. For someone, who travels to lan partys, taking a small case with you is much nicer, then carrying big heavier cases. Sure, the installation is a pain in the ass, in small cases, but after it's done, it becomes more practical, then a large case.

Heat is no problem for a case like NSK3300/3400. PSU and optical are in their own chamber, and motherboard VGA and hard drive are in their own chamber, which has a 120mm exhaust fan. From a cooling standpoint it already has an advantage on most cases, that don't have thermal chamber for psu, for example compared to Solo. NSK3300/3400 is just limited by it's size, I'm not sure if any matx SLI or Crossfire motherboards exist and even if they exist, could you fit graphics card inside the case...

Anyway with the 380W psu, you can even throw an old Pentium D8x0 inside the case and overclock the hell out of it. The case could handle the heat with ease.

THG overclocked D805 to 4.1Ghz in one of their articles. Test system was:
Intel Pentium D 805
Tagan i-Xeye 480 W PSU
Asus P5WD2-E Premium
OCZ DDR2-800 (2x 512 MB)
2x Western Digital WD160
GeForce 7800 GTX
Gigabyte DVD-Rom 16x

Power consumption measured at load was 474.88W. By having a 380W you could actually use some of the old hardware and overclock it. 300W would be just too limiting for all users, especially when you have to pay for the PSU.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:31 am

Erssa wrote:I still think, that there is no good reason to want a 300W psu, if a 380W does the same thing and more, at the exactly same efficiency and price.

No argument there. I want a 300W PSU that is either better or as good and cheaper! Logic dictates that a lower peak wattage PSU will have an inherent low-end efficiency advantage over higher peak wattage. What I want is the top-end tech in a lower wattage PSU. What I am saying is I'm willing to give up peak wattage in return for increased quietness and efficiency over higher output PSUs or even the same efficiency and quietness at a correspondingly lower price. The only reason such a thing is not commercially available is that PSUs with a higher peak rating sell better. It is that simple. Again my point is that peak Wattage is being used as a marketing tool.

Erssa wrote: Heat is no problem for a case like NSK3300/3400. PSU and optical are in their own chamber, and motherboard VGA and hard drive are in their own chamber, which has a 120mm exhaust fan. From a cooling standpoint it already has an advantage on most cases, that don't have thermal chamber for psu, for example compared to Solo. NSK3300/3400 is just limited by it's size, I'm not sure if any matx SLI or Crossfire motherboards exist and even if they exist, could you fit graphics card inside the case...

I disagree. The NSK3300 airflow is not that fantastic. The chambers are mixed blessing. Putting a HD in the top is considered a bad idea by most who've tried it due to the very bad airflow up there, so you are left with every hot component but the PSU in main compartment -- meaning you have to run the main compartment fans higher, or add more (there is a reason there are mounts for 2X92mm and 1X120mm). Meanwhile, what do you think the effect of cramming a bunch of PCI cards into the case is going to have on both airflow and the amount of heat that needs to be removed? Larger cases have inherent advantage for cooling due to the greater volume of air inside. Of course this advantage can be overcome by careful design, but that raises the specter of practicality again. Even with heat concerns disregarded, this a very tight case and doing a build with any complex configuration is a major exercize in patience and manual dexterity. I used the word practical for a reason! I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying doing it is more trouble than most people want to go to. By the way, I do have this case and my comments are based on my own experiences of a C2D build with no discrete graphics card, a single HD, and single full sized optical drive.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:35 am

jessekopelman wrote:Again my point is that peak Wattage is being used as a marketing tool.

Ok, I misunderstood. When you replied to Shaman, you weren't actually trying to argue against his point, but to complain on a whole different matter, that is a bit irrelevant and is a complaint on larger scale and not on the case. Point taken.

I disagree. The NSK3300 airflow is not that fantastic. The chambers are mixed blessing. Putting a HD in the top is considered a bad idea by most who've tried it due to the very bad airflow up there, so you are left with every hot component but the PSU in main compartment -- meaning you have to run the main compartment fans higher, or add more (there is a reason there are mounts for 2X92mm and 1X120mm). Meanwhile, what do you think the effect of cramming a bunch of PCI cards into the case is going to have on both airflow and the amount of heat that needs to be removed?

Luckily you cannot cram that many cards inside the case. You can install graphics and 3 additional cards at maximum, provided the graphics has one slot cooler. 2 cards, if one slot is obstructed by the the hard drive. There are also airholes for cool air next to the pci-slots to provide cool air.

Larger cases have inherent advantage for cooling due to the greater volume of air inside.

I disagree with this. Greater volume only helps in short term. It's the same thing as with water cooling, large reservoir only prolongs the time it takes for the water to reach the maximum temperature. Same thing with larger cases, they will reach the same case temperature eventually.

Of course this advantage can be overcome by careful design, but that raises the specter of practicality again. Even with heat concerns disregarded, this a very tight case and doing a build with any complex configuration is a major exercize in patience and manual dexterity. I used the word practical for a reason! I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying doing it is more trouble than most people want to go to. By the way, I do have this case and my comments are based on my own experiences of a C2D build with no discrete graphics card, a single HD, and single full sized optical drive.

Most people here in SPCR are willing to go through the extra length to make it happen. When I look at the cases in General Gallery I think most of them are overdoing their cablegami. It goes beyond practicality to a point of art. I'm pretty sure P150 doesn't have a significant temperature advantage over NSK3400, except for the hard drive(s), which I'm sure can be cooled adequately.

Updated Antec NSK3300, the new NSK3400

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