Cases for driveless systems?
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Cases for driveless systems?
I'm looking for a case for a driveless system. I have this weird configuration in mind with a C2D and a fairly decent amount of RAM (2-4GB), but I'd just as soon not have a drive in it (no drive == quieter). I'd also like the case to be as small as possible, but it seems like most cases out there have room for a laptop drive, if not a desktop drive. Perhaps I'm overly concerned about it, but I keep thinking I could get a smaller case if it didn't have a drive bay. Any pointers on good cases for that kind of set up?
There are several options for thin client type cases that do not have space for a drive, and are therefore tiny and often silent. However they only have space for pc/104 or nano-itx motherboards, and nothing that will come close to mATX or similar that you could put a C2D into. Most boards of this type don't even have proper RAM slots.
My guess is that, if you can afford a case large enough to accomodate a full motherboard & hsf to allow you to use a C2D and 2Gb+ of RAM, you won't notice the reduction in size that losing a 2.5 inch disk would allow you...
My guess is that, if you can afford a case large enough to accomodate a full motherboard & hsf to allow you to use a C2D and 2Gb+ of RAM, you won't notice the reduction in size that losing a 2.5 inch disk would allow you...
the_beast wrote:There are several options for thin client type cases that do not have space for a drive, and are therefore tiny and often silent. However they only have space for pc/104 or nano-itx motherboards, and nothing that will come close to mATX or similar that you could put a C2D into. Most boards of this type don't even have proper RAM slots.
My guess is that, if you can afford a case large enough to accomodate a full motherboard & hsf to allow you to use a C2D and 2Gb+ of RAM, you won't notice the reduction in size that losing a 2.5 inch disk would allow you...
µATX:
http://www.techpowerup.com/?25901
* Socket LGA 775, Micro ATX
* Supports Intel® Core™ 2 Duo/Celeron® 400 Series Processor
* Intel® G33 + ICH9
* FSB 1333 MHz
* Supports Dual Channel DDR2 667/800 MHz
* 4 x DDR2 DIMM Memory Slots, Max. Supports up to 8GB Memory
* 1 x PCI-E x16, 1 x PCI-E x1, 2 x PCI Slots
* On Board Graphic Max. Memory Share 384 MB
* 8+2-Channel HD Audio, 12 x USB 2.0
* 4 x SATAII 3Gb/s Connectors, GbE LAN
Exactly my point - to put a C2D on a mobo you need to have at least an matx board. Which means there is little point trying to save the space needed for a drive, as it won't make much difference to the overall case volume.
The only cases I know of that do not provide a space for any drives at all are designed to hold only single board industrial type computers. None that I know of will hold a C2D, and even if they could they wouldn't hold a HSF that could cool such a chip. They often use via or slower chips. I personally use a pc/104 board that uses a 166MHz chip. I can get a case for this board that will attach to the vesa mounts on the back of a motherboard. As the entire board uses 6W full load, it runs completely silent. But it is obviously not very powerful, and playback of mp3s is about it's limit.
Edit: this is not actually the board I have, but it illustrates my point. This is the smallest, yet most powerful system I know of that has no space for a drive. The Via 800MHz processor would be ample for most desktop tasks, and will probably handle dvd playback etc as it probably has a hardware decoder. But a C2D it ain't...
http://www.wordit.com/catalog/product_i ... 4f75095151
I did manage to find some 3.5 inch form factor Commel boards that would take Core processors, but they were mobile processors only. There are also some mini-itx boards available. None of these are cheap however.
The fact remains that the only systems that usually are diskless are thin clients. And thin clients do not need C2D processing power. Therefore manufacturers don't make tiny, diskless enclosures for C2D motherboards. Also, as you asked the question on this forum, I assume you want the system quiet. Quiet C2D cooling = big heatsink = big case = no gain from having no drive bays.
I kinda feel like I'm arguing with myself (I just got intregued by how small you could make a reasonable system, so kept looking at the options). From what I could find you will need to either:
a) make your own case and create some clever way of cooling your processor.
b) go for a lower power system
c) put up with a slightly larger case
The only cases I know of that do not provide a space for any drives at all are designed to hold only single board industrial type computers. None that I know of will hold a C2D, and even if they could they wouldn't hold a HSF that could cool such a chip. They often use via or slower chips. I personally use a pc/104 board that uses a 166MHz chip. I can get a case for this board that will attach to the vesa mounts on the back of a motherboard. As the entire board uses 6W full load, it runs completely silent. But it is obviously not very powerful, and playback of mp3s is about it's limit.
Edit: this is not actually the board I have, but it illustrates my point. This is the smallest, yet most powerful system I know of that has no space for a drive. The Via 800MHz processor would be ample for most desktop tasks, and will probably handle dvd playback etc as it probably has a hardware decoder. But a C2D it ain't...
http://www.wordit.com/catalog/product_i ... 4f75095151
I did manage to find some 3.5 inch form factor Commel boards that would take Core processors, but they were mobile processors only. There are also some mini-itx boards available. None of these are cheap however.
The fact remains that the only systems that usually are diskless are thin clients. And thin clients do not need C2D processing power. Therefore manufacturers don't make tiny, diskless enclosures for C2D motherboards. Also, as you asked the question on this forum, I assume you want the system quiet. Quiet C2D cooling = big heatsink = big case = no gain from having no drive bays.
I kinda feel like I'm arguing with myself (I just got intregued by how small you could make a reasonable system, so kept looking at the options). From what I could find you will need to either:
a) make your own case and create some clever way of cooling your processor.
b) go for a lower power system
c) put up with a slightly larger case
My understanding is that at the very least you can stuff a mobile C2D inside the mini-ITX boards designed for CoreDuo's.the_beast wrote:Exactly my point - to put a C2D on a mobo you need to have at least an matx board.
So, looking at the AOpen miniPC's, which are a half foot by half foot by two inches, it seems like you can get C2D's down small enough that a drive would make a difference.the_beast wrote:Which means there is little point trying to save the space needed for a drive, as it won't make much difference to the overall case volume.
I obviously haven't had any better luck finding a system that would fit them, but I would disagree about the heat issue. The mobile C2D's are fairly cool, and if you undervolt them a bit will get even cooler.the_best wrote: The only cases I know of that do not provide a space for any drives at all are designed to hold only single board industrial type computers. None that I know of will hold a C2D, and even if they could they wouldn't hold a HSF that could cool such a chip.
Thanks for the pointers to Commel.the_best wrote: I did manage to find some 3.5 inch form factor Commel boards that would take Core processors, but they were mobile processors only. There are also some mini-itx boards available. None of these are cheap however.
I guess it depends on your definition of what a thin client is. Certainly decoding H.264 is no light weight job, nor is voice recognition, nor is being a node in a computer cluster (and you can find nice compact diskless bits for the latter, the problem is they are designed for fitting in a rack).the_best wrote: The fact remains that the only systems that usually are diskless are thin clients. And thin clients do not need C2D processing power.
Yes, I believe the crux of the problem is that the market for them must be insanely small.the_best wrote: Therefore manufacturers don't make tiny, diskless enclosures for C2D motherboards.
I've seen designs where the case itself provided the "big heatsink", which I have to think is more than sufficient.the_best wrote: Also, as you asked the question on this forum, I assume you want the system quiet. Quiet C2D cooling = big heatsink = big case = no gain from having no drive bays.
Thanks for all your thoughts, and I have been kind of thinking that what I'm looking for is impossible, but there does seem to still be a thin ray of hope. I'll post if I find something suitable.
If you want tiny and silent I think making a case is the likely route. Bear in mind that squeezing a heat source into a shoebox only makes the cooling issues a bit more of a problem.
65 nm Semprons may be showing up in a few months-and by then maybe there's an undersize AM2 mobo,underclocked-undervolted you might get away with a big but relatively low profile HS,the type like an Aerocool Dominator or one of the thermalrights with a top fan. Do you have an external fanless PSU? Put in a VERY slow case fan,or mount the fan on the HS,very slow and maybe ducted?
As an interesting experiment,It would be a challenge. I do kind of wonder about the functionality at the end. What will you be able to do?
There are ways now to run a HD external and seperate. You can splice onto your 12v power feed and use a long SATA cable,or can get an external USB2 setup and put it at a distance. It's possible now to fit a XP-Lite install on a plug-in USB2 device,flash type,or a compact Linux. I'd guess there's a performance hit there. I guess it's a question of what you use this puter for.
65 nm Semprons may be showing up in a few months-and by then maybe there's an undersize AM2 mobo,underclocked-undervolted you might get away with a big but relatively low profile HS,the type like an Aerocool Dominator or one of the thermalrights with a top fan. Do you have an external fanless PSU? Put in a VERY slow case fan,or mount the fan on the HS,very slow and maybe ducted?
As an interesting experiment,It would be a challenge. I do kind of wonder about the functionality at the end. What will you be able to do?
There are ways now to run a HD external and seperate. You can splice onto your 12v power feed and use a long SATA cable,or can get an external USB2 setup and put it at a distance. It's possible now to fit a XP-Lite install on a plug-in USB2 device,flash type,or a compact Linux. I'd guess there's a performance hit there. I guess it's a question of what you use this puter for.
It is quite easy-and pretty cheap,to create a functional computer based on a Sempron 3000 and an MATX mobo with a single enclosed-suspended HD,a fanless PSU and one big very slow fan.
The ideal setup does not exist-yet...you'd need some basic power tools and you'd make it. The airflow would be important. I'd figure a Ninja and a 120mm fan on it at 400 rpm,meaning a fan that stock runs at 800 rpm or less,used at minimal voltage. The front-sides-top would be solid wood/particle board. the top would be covered with sheet metal,because a Fortran Zen fanless PSU would be EXTERNALLY mounted. Your DVD /CD burner would be external. You'd go cordless with mouse and keyboard,so the computer can be at some distance,with the limit being the reach of the monitor cable.
Your cases front and side panels extend at least 3" below the bottom,and the bottom is essentially open,as is the rear with at most a mesh or screen to keep out mice and children,or whatever pets and pests....
This lets the minimal airflow/rpm of that fan do the most good.
The HDD probably could be a Samsung T series,which is pretty cool and quiet. The M series 2.5's are SLIGHTLY cooler-quieter,but there is a performance hit...and the $ per GB is higher too. making a suspendable heat-sink,noise blocking box is really not tough if you think it through.
Making a case is not tough if you scavange the mobo tray-backside from a scrap case and hack away the unwanted parts. I'd think a 12"x12" x 9" box would work,figure another 3" above for the PSU. I doubt youd hear anything,but you'd have a pretty decent performer.
The ideal setup does not exist-yet...you'd need some basic power tools and you'd make it. The airflow would be important. I'd figure a Ninja and a 120mm fan on it at 400 rpm,meaning a fan that stock runs at 800 rpm or less,used at minimal voltage. The front-sides-top would be solid wood/particle board. the top would be covered with sheet metal,because a Fortran Zen fanless PSU would be EXTERNALLY mounted. Your DVD /CD burner would be external. You'd go cordless with mouse and keyboard,so the computer can be at some distance,with the limit being the reach of the monitor cable.
Your cases front and side panels extend at least 3" below the bottom,and the bottom is essentially open,as is the rear with at most a mesh or screen to keep out mice and children,or whatever pets and pests....
This lets the minimal airflow/rpm of that fan do the most good.
The HDD probably could be a Samsung T series,which is pretty cool and quiet. The M series 2.5's are SLIGHTLY cooler-quieter,but there is a performance hit...and the $ per GB is higher too. making a suspendable heat-sink,noise blocking box is really not tough if you think it through.
Making a case is not tough if you scavange the mobo tray-backside from a scrap case and hack away the unwanted parts. I'd think a 12"x12" x 9" box would work,figure another 3" above for the PSU. I doubt youd hear anything,but you'd have a pretty decent performer.
I didn't mean to make my post sound so negative. I just kept on finding nice small options for motherboards that I didn't know existed, but I am yet to find any decent cases to go with them.
I guess you're right about the purpose of thin clients - I should have said that most thin clients don't need much power as they are mainly used for POS or similar applications.
As said above, I think your best bet would be to make your own case. To be honest, if it ends up half as small as you seem to want it to be you won't even need to make a good job of it - it will be so small no-one will notice it anyway! I guess you don't really want to build a case with a Ninja in it however, as that is about the same size as an entire MiniPC on its own...
One last thing though - the volume of the AOpen case you mentioned is 6x6x2=72 cubic inches. The volume of a 2.5in drive is about 5% of that. So it isn't really going to make a noticeable difference, especially as the drive can sit over the flat parts of the motherboard next to the ram and heatsinks which need the headroom. I would bet that even without a hard disk the AOpen case could not be made much smaller. Removing the optical drive would yield a little space however.
I guess you're right about the purpose of thin clients - I should have said that most thin clients don't need much power as they are mainly used for POS or similar applications.
As said above, I think your best bet would be to make your own case. To be honest, if it ends up half as small as you seem to want it to be you won't even need to make a good job of it - it will be so small no-one will notice it anyway! I guess you don't really want to build a case with a Ninja in it however, as that is about the same size as an entire MiniPC on its own...
One last thing though - the volume of the AOpen case you mentioned is 6x6x2=72 cubic inches. The volume of a 2.5in drive is about 5% of that. So it isn't really going to make a noticeable difference, especially as the drive can sit over the flat parts of the motherboard next to the ram and heatsinks which need the headroom. I would bet that even without a hard disk the AOpen case could not be made much smaller. Removing the optical drive would yield a little space however.
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Chris Chan
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- Location: Michigan
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Chris Chan
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:15 pm
- Location: Michigan