Push pull in an HTPC case: finding a minitower HSF worth it?

[Woland]

My HTPC runs inside an OrigenAE S10V that I really like. It can handle the frugal hardware setup, it's looks great as part of the home theater, the front panel display integrates nicely with WMC and the Soungraph software lets me use my Harmony remote. The case has 4x60 mm fans installed on opposite sides (2 per side) to setup a cross flow. I was a little worried about them when I got it, but they're quiet enough, given that I'm never closer than ten feet from my HTPC, and seem to move a respectable amount of air through the case.

Okay, here's the TLDR: Would it be worth it to track down a mini tower that can work in a push-pull setup with the side mounted fans in this desktop style HTPC case? The hardware inside is pretty modest: a Wolfdale E7300 cooled by a Scythe Shuriken, a Radeon 5570, Ceton InfiniTV, some RAM and a hard drive. The top of the case gets rather warm (This is a good thing right? That means the heat is getting transferred into the heavy duty aluminum case top, spreading out and radiating away?)

The trick here is that it has to be a really short tower. Origen sells a cooler (the 'C10') made to fit to the S10. The C10 comes in at 79 mm tall. I'm not sure how tight the fit is for the C10, but the case is 110 mm tall, and with the standoffs and everything, I'd guess something around 80 mm is the max. I could probably track down the C10, although it's a bit spendy and would limit me to Socket 775 (I'd like to upgrade to an i3-2100 in the near future). Are there any mini tower heatsinks even out there? I'm pretty sure even the Ninja Mini wouldn't fit, even if it were still available.

I though it might to be cool to try to setup the case so that a side-mounted fan on a tower heatsink would push air onto the fans near the CPU socket, which would exhaust air, while the other side mounted fans would pull in fresh air. Noise isn't a factor here. The PSU fan, case fans and Shuriken are all quiet enough for a case positioned across the living room. This is more of a project to see if I can setup the case to move the heat out via air flow rather than radiator style through the aluminum. Does a push-pull setup in a situation like this significantly affect temperatures?

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

Okay, here's the TLDR: Would it be worth it to track down a mini tower that can work in a push-pull setup with the side mounted fans in this desktop style HTPC case? The hardware inside is pretty modest: a Wolfdale E7300 cooled by a Scythe Shuriken, a Radeon 5570, Ceton InfiniTV, some RAM and a hard drive. The top of the case gets rather warm (This is a good thing right? That means the heat is getting transferred into the heavy duty aluminum case top, spreading out and radiating away?)

If the top of that case is getting warm, it means it is being heated by the hot air in the case, as no components contact the case top directly. It is not a problem, but it does mean that your case air is much warmer then outside air. The C10 and exhausting CPU air appears to be how the case was meant to be used. Sadly Origen has not updated the cooler for 1155.

ASRock_CCO_med.jpg

Your best upgrade bet would be the Origan C10 and an ASRock board that includes the 775 mounting holes, they call it the "Combo Cooler Option" (C.C.O.). While I know some people will say that you could buy a cheaper board, I like the features of the ASRock Z68 PRO3-M LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Motherboard. If you look closely, you can see that this board can mount a LGA1155 cooler or a LGA775 cooler.

I can't find any other towers that are that small, after-market towers appear to not be available with anything smaller then an 80mm fan. That usually leads to a total height of just around 100mm. All the top-down coolers will mix the hot used air and the new cool air.

You are stuck with an expensive case that needs an expensive cooler that will not work with modern CPUs. Unless you buy an ASRock board.

[ntavlas]

I think Dr.jim is right. I`m not aware of any other tower heatsinks less than 80mm tall either and I have been looking for a while (we can ignore older btx designs without heatpipes). The origen cooler looks efficient enough. Lack of lga 1155 support is a minus. I doubt it would affect cpu temperatures much though it could have a positive effect on overall system cooling. One could argue that a top town cooler would benefit the parts around the socket, I don`t think it would apply here though, the improvement in overall air circulation should counteract the lack of more directed airflow.

TDLR: You don`t seem to be in immediata need of better cooling so this is something you`d do to have the most elegant solution, not because you need to.

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

TDLR: You don`t seem to be in immediata need of better cooling so this is something you`d do to have the most elegant solution, not because you need to.

Your statement is true. I am surprised that I didn't notice. I had just assumed that he was asking about how to move up to the latest platform that would fit into his case, and wanted the best cooling he could buy.

If your current cooling is working for the E7200, then why change anything?
Do you know your system temperatures and fan speeds (use speedfan)?

[Woland]

You don`t seem to be in immediata need of better cooling so this is something you`d do to have the most elegant solution, not because you need to.

Exactly right. This is tweaking for the sake of tweaking. I think it'll be fun to try to come up with a solution that is more effective at moving heat out of the case. The older I get, the more my PCs become tools, rather than a fun hobby. My HTPC is the last bastion of tweaking, altering and general experimentation that I have in the computer world.

If the C10 doesn't drop the CPU temp, that's fine, as the CPU is doing okay under the Shuriken. Getting the CPU heat out of the case, quickly, though, seems like it would lead to lower temperatures elsewhere, even if the C10 isn't quite the cooler that the Shuriken is. Realistically, if I can come up with something that efficiently moves hot air out of the case, I imagine the real world benefit will be minimal. However, I would be immensely pleased by the increased 'neat-o' factor, and that's what this particular little project is about.

If your current cooling is working for the E7200, then why change anything?
Do you know your system temperatures and fan speeds (use speedfan)?

Where's the fun in that? I'm not sure what the current temps are. I'll install Speedfan when I get a chance and see where they're at. Regardless, the current cooling is 'sufficient', where sufficient means things aren't crashing or locking up, even under fairly heavy CPU use. The fact that an i3-2100 is going to more power efficient than my current CPU makes me want to upgrade from the E7300, but I could live without it (again, that's not the fun route, though). The E7300 has sufficient muscle for all the tasks I ask of it, but swapping in something that can do what I need while being a little more frugal power-wise would be cool.

Thanks for the info on the ASRock board. The board looks nice even without the combo mounting capability--the Z68 chipset is one of the things giving me the upgrade itch (because of the SSD caching), so paying a little more isn't a concern here.

I measured the available height for a heatsink while I had the top off to replace the CMOS battery. There is about 80 mm of space. According to Origen's specs, the C10 is 79 mm. So...yeah, pretty tight. I think I'll send Origen and email this week to see if they plan to release an updated C10. Otherwise, I'll try the ASRock board. I imagine the C10 is up to the task of cooling an i3-2100 with some well-directed air flow and essentially nothing else in the system making significant heat.

Thanks for the help, guys.

EDIT: Closing a tag.

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

I'll install Speedfan when I get a chance and see where they're at. Regardless, the current cooling is 'sufficient', where sufficient means things aren't crashing or locking up, even under fairly heavy CPU use. The fact that an i3-2100 is going to more power efficient than my current CPU makes me want to upgrade from the E7300, but I could live without it (again, that's not the fun route, though). The E7300 has sufficient muscle for all the tasks I ask of it, but swapping in something that can do what I need while being a little more frugal power-wise would be cool.

Come back and post your results from Speedfan. Most people feel that the C2D processors are still plenty fast for most tasks. If I was in the market for a new CPU, I would be buying a Pentium G840 for LGA1155. This cheap processor (listed at $75, selling at $85 today due to HUGE demand) will be faster then the E7300, and they claim motherboards will be upgrade-able to Ivy Bridge.

I think I'll send Origen and email this week to see if they plan to release an updated C10. Otherwise, I'll try the ASRock board. I imagine the C10 is up to the task of cooling an i3-2100 with some well-directed air flow and essentially nothing else in the system making significant heat.

If Origen is not going to update the cooler, you could get the Dynatron K650 2U cooler or the Dynatron K666 60mm U2 Cooler. The 60mm "tower" has no heatpipes, but I expect that a processor that has a power of 65 watts or less will still be cool.

The question is how loud the fan is, and what other 60mm fans will work.

[Woland]

Come back and post your results from Speedfan. Most people feel that the C2D processors are still plenty fast for most tasks. If I was in the market for a new CPU, I would be buying a Pentium G840 for LGA1155. This cheap processor (listed at $75, selling at $85 today due to HUGE demand) will be faster then the E7300, and they claim motherboards will be upgrade-able to Ivy Bridge.

After a couple of hours of watching TV, I ran some mundane tasks on the HTPC, then fully loaded both cores. The CPU temp is now stable at 57 C. The G840 is exactly the sort of power reduction I'm looking to get.

If Origen is not going to update the cooler, you could get the Dynatron K650 2U cooler or the Dynatron K666 60mm U2 Cooler. The 60mm "tower" has no heatpipes, but I expect that a processor that has a power of 65 watts or less will still be cool.

The question is how loud the fan is, and what other 60mm fans will work.

From the Newegg reviews, those Dynatron coolers' fans don't get any praise. Still, they seem like they'd be okay for cooling a G840 or i3-2100 if they can be mated to a quieter fan. If Origen doesn't get back to me, or doesn't plan to release an updated C10, I think that might be the way togo. I'm going to dig around for a decent 60 mm fan to pair with one in case.