Comments on Antec Sonata installs and mods

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:15 pm

I've been enjoying my Sonatas for a couple of months now. The guys here were great help on a few issues. Thanks, guys.

I thought I'd put together a few comments for kicking around.

The Antec fans are a wee bit quieter than average but they aren't quiet at all. The 120mm fans hum and the 80mm fans have a hum/buzz that's quite grating. Swapping in Panaflo L1As for the 80mm Antecs was a pleasant releif.

I'm still running the 120mm Antec case fans. It's not like they're loud but they but they produce most of the noise that still comes from the systems.

In my opinion, Antec is misrepresenting the quietness of their product given the stock fans. I could hear the silence quite well, thank you. With two Sonatas in one room, people on the phone could hear my systems with total clairity without me having to hold the receiver down to the systems.

My two year old Maxtor hard disks sound like turbine engines compared to the Seagate 7200.7 drives that have replaced them. The guys who pine for the days of the Baracuda IV must have quieter systems than I do because I can't hear the 7200.7 drives over the fan noise. The Maxtors were clearly audible, though.

I cut two ribs out of the inner intake grill. It's probably a good modification but I doubt it does anything noticeable.

I covered the Antec vents with some thick vinyl material that sealed them perfectly. This mod has been spoken of by a few people here. It made sense to do.

The thing is, my disk temperatures only dropped a couple of degrees and the MB and CPU temps went way up, as did the fan speeds and noise. Plugging the Antec vents was not a successfull mod for me. I have removed the vinyl and am enjoying quieter systems. When I take the case side off, it gets even quieter. Anything that improves ventilation seems to help.

Several people suggested I upgrade from ThermalTake Volcano 9 coolers to ThermalWright SLK-800A coolers. I did but it was a waste of money, in my opinion. My Bartons used to run at 55C with the Volcano 9 coolers/Panaflo L1A fans. With the ThermalWright coolers and the same L1A fans, my max temperatures are 52C. Big deal.

I'm starting to believe people make too much fuss over ultra-low CPU temps. From what I can tell, the only way to achieve the ultra-low temps some people have spoken of is to heavily under volt/clock the CPU, either directly or with ACPI. The more I think about it, who cares what the numbers are as long as they're well within the specification and the system is stable?

These 32C CPU numbers are pure fantasy, IMO. I can achieve that too, but only when ACPI throttles the system clock back to nothing. When the system is working, I'm always in the 40s.

Overall, I am pleased with my Sonatas. The finish is good but not great (Calling it a piano finish makes it obvious no one in the Antec marketing department knows what a laquered piano looks like). I'd call it high-luster. It's not gloss.

The hard drive mounting system is excellent. Including trays, grommets, and screws to populate all bays, should it be desired, was a professional touch. Turning the bays toward the side panel is an excellent piece of engineering, IMO.

The absence of a motherboard tray doesn't bother me in the least. I'm just as happy it doesn't have one. Of course, I only swap motherboards once or twice a year.

The wiring in the case is excellent. The power supply has plenty of connectors and length to reach all components in the system. The front panel wiring is outstanding, but the audio connector is some sort of weird joke. Why didn't they follow some standard like the Intel audio header? At least they provided the little fly out connectors so you can connect it with some work.

The feet are too short for sitting on carpet. You can feel the air sucking from under the front bezel if you push the case back. By raising the systems above the carpet, the fans ramp down a little bit for some added quietness. I don't want my nice looking Sonatas sitting on boxes so I'm going to have to come up with some feet. Antec should include some carpet spikes in the kit.

Overall, I'd say my quiet efforts have been mildly successfull. With L1A fans, airflow improvement modifications, and experimenting, each of my systems are about twice as loud as the box stock Dell GX260 I use at work.

-- Tom

miker · Post by **miker** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:46 am

Pretty much agree with everything you said here. My only mod beyond yours (well, besides watercooling the whole damn thing), was to add a filtered screen to the Antec holes. Over time, you may notice that the 80mm fan on the PSU will be very dirty when compared to the 120mm exhaust. Those Antec holes are critical for the PSU.

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:04 pm

Great idea. Thanks.

I've been thinking about slowing down the 120mm case fan and PS fan and just let it cook a little more. Has anyone tried that?

I'd like to cut the noise in half, if I can. My MB temps are in the 27-29 range so I believe I can spare a little cooling efficiency.

miker · Post by **miker** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:16 pm

I do think temps are overrated. The CPU lifetime numbers are pretty meaningless to me, but the person who buys my proc in 3-6 months might care more. I have no problem with my CPU at 550C after a long night of folding. I am not sure what I would get if I was folding and running a 3d benchmark at the same time. Probably not pretty.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:07 pm

I am not sure what I would get if I was folding and running a 3d benchmark at the same time. Probably not pretty.

Actually, I've been running 3dMark03 recently. Forgot to turn off Folding a couple times. Noticed that the temps actually decreased a bit. Well CPU did, case stayed the same.

Mebbe I'll try it again with Folding set to keep highest priority. 3dMark was probably ousting it from cpu cycles. Still wish I had an easy way to measure my GPU temps. :-\

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:32 pm

What I don't understand is, you have some people who say the Sonata is "noisey" whereas I have others who have it on 24hours a day within 2 feet of their bed, stock standard, and they can't hear it!

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:20 pm

I just got my Sonata and built it up. It's a nice design in a lot of ways, which have been covered ad nauseam here and elsewhere.

However. I strongly agree with the criticisms of airflow. The front panel is incredibly restrictive, PLUS it has a filter, PLUS the big honkin' sideways drive slots (which I otherwise like) are directly in the path of the front panel.. I guess all for HDD noise blocking reasons.

I'm beginning to think maybe the "ANTEC" holes are more important than I originally anticipated. I taped mine shut, but I'm considering removing the tape. Either that or cutting the heck out of the front panel so I can get some semi-decent airflow..

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:41 am

CoolColJ wrote:What I don't understand is, you have some people who say the Sonata is "noisey" whereas I have others who have it on 24hours a day within 2 feet of their bed, stock standard, and they can't hear it!

People have different tolerances for noise. Also the ambient noise levels vary very much: Some have A/C running 24/7, some have windows open (ones in the wall

), traffic, airplanes etc.

My computer (as in sig) is noisy compared to my quiet system. Yesterday I had few friends for a visit, and they said it was much more quiet than their systems!

Cheers,

Jan

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:45 pm

I finally took a dremel to the front of my sonata case. It's criminal how much they have restricted airflow in the front panel of this case. Sealing the case for noise reduction is great, but how are you supposed to keep the fan noise down without SOME kind of airflow in from the front?

OK, sure, there are those antec holes in the side-- but do you really want noise (and airflow) leaking out through holes in the side of your case? I'd rather have the front be more open, so we get proper front to back airflow. I taped the "antec" holes shut right after I got this case.

As someone else pointed out, you can open the small silver cover over the front ports and just feel the air rushing into that tiny gap. I tested this, and that's really how bad it is-- air is desperate for any entrance through the front, even one that marginal!

In order to improve airflow, it is possible to clear out a great deal of material from the front panel while keeping the "look" of the case the same. The front panel comes in two parts-- the main panel, and a smaller snap on piece near the bottom which covers the bottom vent. I used my dremel to cut out all the slotted plastic ribbing in the main panel -- so there's a giant gaping hole. I also substantially widened the venting holes in the left, right, and bottom of the snap-on piece, which covers the.. giant gaping hole.

You can't see the changes from the outside, which is why this is a good mod IMO. My case temps definitely went down 1-2C after this.

As the original poster pointed out, carpet doesn't help either, as it tends to block the bottom case entrance completely. Does anyone have a good idea for spike-type feet to elevate the case a bit?

miker · Post by **miker** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:15 pm

Got pics wumpus? 1,000 words and all that

starsky · Post by **starsky** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:13 pm

The biggest problem I had with the Sonata was the PSU. Now I have replaced it with a silenx.com Silenx 400w I am VERY happy. Got much better temps from going from an Asus to an Abit board which meant I could reduce the speed of my CPU fan.

also, I have no Vid Card fan, no northbridge fan, and 3 Seagate HDD's.

Googlie · Post by **Googlie** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:35 pm

Tom Brown wrote:---snip---
The feet are too short for sitting on carpet. You can feel the air sucking from under the front bezel if you push the case back. By raising the systems above the carpet, the fans ramp down a little bit for some added quietness. I don't want my nice looking Sonatas sitting on boxes so I'm going to have to come up with some feet. Antec should include some carpet spikes in the kit.
-- Tom

I don't like my PC's sitting on the carpet either. I take a piece of MDF, slightly larger than the case, use a router (no not a network router) and ease the edge. Paint to taste , in this case gloss black, and voila - you have a simple platform.

For those of you who don't have a wood working tools, Home Depot will cut the piece to size for you for no charge. Spray paint from the same store - easy and cheap.

Goo · Post by **Goo** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:01 am

As someone considering the Sonata, I appreciate the comments in this thread. BTW, can anyone tell me if the Sonata's PS has Serial ATA power connectors?

BobCurtiss · Post by **BobCurtiss** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:09 am

I read a couple of reviews (not on this site) in which the reviewers complained about these holes "messing up the airflow" of the case.

I have to wonder... one would assume that people who design cases for a living would give some amount of thought to the affect such holes would have on airflow, yes? One would hope so, anyway!

It seems perfectly obvious the holes are placed there specifically to provide more air to the power supply, especially considering the restricted air intake in the front panel.

The idea of placing air filters over the holes is excellent. Of course, air filters do restrict the airflow a little bit.

It would be interesting to see some comparison measurements of case and CPU temps with and without the front panel air filter.

I'm planning to purchase a Sonata. Once my system is up and running, I'll post that data.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:30 am

Goo wrote:As someone considering the Sonata, I appreciate the comments in this thread. BTW, can anyone tell me if the Sonata's PS has Serial ATA power connectors?

No, it doesn't but you can buy Molex>SATA adapters for about $3 around here.

Goo · Post by **Goo** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:29 am

Thanks. CompUSA sells the TruePower power supplies and when I noticed that one of them was advertising that it had the S-ATA connectors I hoped that it would be the same for the Sonata since it also has a TruePower power supply.

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:18 pm

wumpus wrote:As the original poster pointed out, carpet doesn't help either, as it tends to block the bottom case entrance completely. Does anyone have a good idea for spike-type feet to elevate the case a bit?

Yes.

I used four inverted shot glasses and they look nice to my eye.

I have two Sonatas that sit on carpet so it took eight shot glasses. This will be a problem if I ever have sophisticated guests who are prissy about using glasses for their hooch but, other than that, it is a nice solution.

I'll post some pics when I get a chance.

-- Tom

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:43 pm

I just cut two small 2by4s to put under my case. Case makers always manage to sneak in the floor intake on the bottom of the front bezel. Tom - maybe at work it's a little louder so you perceive the Dell to be quieter

They are very quiet though, I have a Dell at work and I don't think it has a cpu fan.

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:45 am

MikeK wrote:Tom - maybe at work it's a little louder so you perceive the Dell to be quieter

Yes. This is quite possible.

I work in a raised floor data center with environmental systems buzzing away all day. My office has walls and that helps a lot but it's still loud compared to my home where I can hear the fridge compressor cut in from anywhere in the house.

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:45 pm

I like the inverted shot glass idea, and I'll do that soon. Right now I have my sonata on two books.

I added the 2nd internal fan to my Sonata, and I am quite ambivalent about the utility of this fan.

Originally I was experimenting with the (noisier) Vantec Stealth on the inside, and a (quieter) 5v 120mm Panaflo on the back.. but I think this caused a major short-circuit in the airflow-- because of the massive disparity between outflow CFM and internal CFM. My temps spiked WAY up with this arrangement, and I had to revert to the antec 120mm exhaust fan temporarily.. which is quite loud.

What I finally settled on was adding another 120mm vantec stealth* as exhaust, and placing the zalman 3-pin resistor on the internal 120mm vantec stealth. That sets up a nice pull-pull arrangement where most of the CFM is exhaust, and the internal fan and exhaust fan aren't "fighting" each other.

Either way the internal fan does not buy me much in the way of airflow or reduced temps.. and can even hurt your temps in the worst case, with the natural impulse to put the "noisier" high cfm fan on the inside and the slower one as the exhaust

.. so if you don't have a second 120mm fan handy, don't feel like you NEED one added to your Sonata to get decent airflow. You don't.

So I guess I learned a couple things

0) Blocking airflow to block noise is generally a bad idea. Less airflow means more heat, which means more noise to disperse the heat.. a vicious cycle. That's why you need to dremel the hell out the front panel of your sonata to get decent airflow. This "block noise" philosophy also runs completely contrary to the stupid ANTEC holes in the side of the case, but I digress. Make up your mind, Antec Case Designers!

1) Exhaust CFM is extremely important to cooling.

2) Having more intake CFM than exhaust CFM produces really screwed up airflow and spikes your temps way up.

3) I'm not sure the "behind the drive bays" intake fan arrangement is a good one. It's a reasonable compromise-- move a noisy fan further inside the case-- just don't expect this fan to do a heck of a lot for you (see #1)

I guess some people call the more intake CFM / less exhaust CFM "positive pressure." But is the the massive increase in temps due to the horribly inefficient airflow worth the minor benefit of less dust buildup??

* I know, I know, it's not THAT quiet but in my opinion produces excellent CFM airflow for its relatively low noise. The Panaflo at 12v and 5v was super quiet.. but also moved a fraction of the air the stealth does.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:09 am

wumpus wrote: So I guess I learned a couple things

1) Exhaust CFM is extremely important to cooling.

2) Having more intake CFM than exhaust CFM produces really screwed up airflow and spikes your temps way up.

I guess some people call the more intake CFM / less exhaust CFM "positive pressure." But is the the massive increase in temps due to the horribly inefficient airflow worth the minor benefit of less dust buildup??

All these points seem to be applicable to almost all cases, but it's kind of difficult to convince people of this. I discovered early on (by just experimenting with fan layout) that no intake, or a very tiny bit of intake (actually just to cool the HDD) gives the best temps. There does seem to be the occaisional exception to this rule but it doesn't happen often. At least people here at SPCR seem to be more open to this philosophy than people at the more typical enthusiast sites. There's this ongoing belief that 1)you have to have positive pressure to keep your case clean and this leads to poor case cooling which leads to the theory that 2) "the more case fans the better" as people add fans to try and make up for their screwed up airflow.

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:02 am

miker wrote:Pretty much agree with everything you said here. My only mod beyond yours (well, besides watercooling the whole damn thing), was to add a filtered screen to the Antec holes. Over time, you may notice that the 80mm fan on the PSU will be very dirty when compared to the 120mm exhaust. Those Antec holes are critical for the PSU.

WHat did you use for the ANtec holes filtering?

miker · Post by **miker** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:11 am

Very fine screen mesh from home depot. Held on with duct tape. works pretty good. I still get dust in around the drive bays, though.

pony-tail · Post by **pony-tail** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:00 pm

3) I'm not sure the "behind the drive bays" intake fan arrangement is a good one. It's a reasonable compromise-- move a noisy fan further inside the case-- just don't expect this fan to do a heck of a lot for you (see #1)

I have both a Sonata and an SLK 3700 - in recent times I have found as much as 8 deg c difference in the temps between the 2(The Sonata being hotter) , The Sonata has 2x panaflo "m" series fans and the slk has 2xAntec fans and positive Pressure the Slk gives temps wit only 1 deg c hotter with just the front fan than with 2 fans but the Sonata Is designed in such a way that this arrangement is not possible .
THE POINT IS -: Positive pressure ventilation is excellent but only works in a case that supports that configuration , and the Sonata Does not. Iwill probably replace my Sonata in the near future with an SLK 3700 BQE as I am finding some of the Sonata's quirks a little hard to live with
(a) the position of the front fan
(b) the non removeable off side panel
(c) the Antec holes
There are things that I do like about the Sonata but I have found that with a few small mods the SLK suits me better than the Sonata

starsky · Post by **starsky** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:41 pm

When I had the Tru380s power supply, covering my Antec holes with Gaffa Tape (dunno whay it is called in the US) improved the temps.

But with the Silenx 400w PSU, removing the Gaffa improved the temps...

Interesting...

pony-tail · Post by **pony-tail** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:42 pm

All these points seem to be applicable to almost all cases, but it's kind of difficult to convince people of this. I discovered early on (by just experimenting with fan layout) that no intake, or a very tiny bit of intake (actually just to cool the HDD) gives the best temps. There does seem to be the occaisional exception to this rule but it doesn't happen often. At least people here at SPCR seem to be more open to this philosophy than people at the more typical enthusiast sites. There's this ongoing belief that 1)you have to have positive pressure to keep your case clean and this leads to poor case cooling which leads to the theory that 2) "the more case fans the better" as people add fans to try and make up for their screwed up airflow.

In reference to positive pressure ventilation - it depends on how a case is engineered . Quite a few early Macs were engineered with just a single intake fan and no psu fan and it worked very well, and some Brand name PC desktops are ventillated this way. But my personal preference is for a push - pull setup with incoming air roughly equal to or slightly more than atmospheric pressure.
Please also note that pure positive pressure ventilation requires a very unrestricted airflow through and a minimum of leaks and is therefore a little more difficult to setup and less forgiving . Something I personally would like to see is fan assisted convection cooling where the fan only cuts in at high temps - but this would be expensive and difficult to setup on a high end system - Would be Quiet though.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:45 am

Pony-tail:
Something I personally would like to see is fan assisted convection cooling where the fan only cuts in at high temps - but this would be expensive and difficult to setup on a high end system - Would be Quiet though.

This is more or less exactly what I am aiming for in my next build.
The goal is that fans will never kick in at all, but since there will be too many unknowns I will have 2 or 3 fans that can kick in if neccecary.
I aim for a XP2500+ Barton, a fairly low end GPU. Still not clear on what PSU I will use. Going for a stock fanless is a bit expensive and no fun, so I will probably start with some cheap PSU and make it passive through extensive modding. Designing for good airflow is a must in this solution as is carefully choosing components.

pony-tail · Post by **pony-tail** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:46 pm

I have a Mac G4 cube which is fan less but almost half of its weight is heatsink but it works and provided you do not use the optical drive it is silent.
I want a PC that Quiet! My sonata is Quiet , but not that Quiet

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:37 pm

Tom Brown

can you describe how you went about modding the Sonata PSU to take the Panaflo?

I open it up yesterday and noticed it had a 2 pin fan connector, my Pananflo has 3 pins!
And everything is cabled tied up. WHich isn't a hig deal, but it seems one has to cut the main large cable tie to remove the existing fans speed monitor ouput, and even then it looks like it would be hard to get it out.
Not that keen on doing this, since I don't have any cbale ties to redo it.

Did you just cut the thing off or cut the cable tie and removed the fan speed monitor cables intact?

thanks

Tom Brown · Post by **Tom Brown** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:39 pm

I cut the zip ties and removed the strobe wire intact. Don't do this mod unless you have some zip ties to replace any you cut. It will be a mess unless you can keep the wires neat and bundled.

Getting the old one out:

-> remove the old fan screws and physically extract the fan
-> pop the fan power connector from the P/S circuit board
-> remove the strobe wire from the wiring harness (not that hard)

Installing the new one:

-> remove the connector shroud from the P/S circuit board as described elsewhere on this site (there are even pictures somewhere... good info)
-> mount the L1A in physically (it's a super tight fit because they are so thick the fan housing will touch the heat sink at the bottom... it WILL fit, though)
-> connect the L1A to the circuit board

Note:

I don't recall the polarity of the fan power connector on the circuit board. You should pay attention to how the old one came off. One thing I can say is that the connector holes are offset and there isn't a lot of room to put the connector on. Because of the offset holes, it will go on easier one way than the other. The easy way is the right way.

-- Tom

Comments on Antec Sonata installs and mods

Comments on Antec Sonata installs and mods

Re: Comments on Antec Sonata installs and mods

"Antec" Holes in Sonata Case Side Panels