Recommendation for 24" monitors

nicke2323 · Post by **nicke2323** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:46 am

klankymen wrote:My BenQ goes from 45W ~ 70W, depending on brightness,
I keep it at around 40% (which is still very bright) and it draws 55W.

That is *brilliant* news, thank you very much for posting! The thought of 100W hurt my environmental conscience (and wallet) too much to order ...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:50 am

nicke2323 wrote:
klankymen wrote:My BenQ goes from 45W ~ 70W, depending on brightness,
I keep it at around 40% (which is still very bright) and it draws 55W.
That is *brilliant* news, thank you very much for posting! The thought of 100W hurt my environmental conscience (and wallet) too much to order ...

If you want to use any of the non-pc inputs at all, go for the best and get the Benq. Dell monitors are awful for non-pc inputs with poor settings and a very bad scaler. Btw one thing I really dislike about the current market is that monitor makers use 3 or 4 different panels in one model number. Samsung uses at least 4 different panels in their 22" TN-Film(which is another thing I hate....replace all those icky tn-films with mva!!!) I believe the Benq currently comes in either pva or mva forms. I'd prefer the mva for less twinkling and best movie watching panel, but it's impossible to know which type you get.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:36 am

er, hm.

it seems that a lot of offerings are not making the grade for what I want.

Does anyone know about the other benq 24"? the one with the fixed display height? IS that a mva or pva?

What are you meaning when you say that a mva is best for movies vs Pva?

violence and intolerance,
El Jefe

klankymen · Post by **klankymen** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:00 am

the panel is the same for both FP241Ws, both the fixed hight and the stand one, afaik. MVA is faster than PVA, while retaining similar color properties.

therefore the benq is the only 24" VA monitor that doesn't have input-lag. (the TN panels don't either, but they suxx0r)

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:17 am

Let me reexplain. The exact same BenQ model has been reviewed and mentioned with two different panels. One is a S-PVA, one is an AMVA. There is no way to predict which one you get when you buy one. The MVA panels tend to have less twinkling than any other type and therefore are the best panels for darker parts of movies. However both panels types are pretty good imho. From the timing of the reviews, it seems the MVA is showing up in more recently built models. The PVA was definitely used in early reviews.

I don't have hard info, but my guess would be that the fixed stand is exactly the same panel as the moveable one. (Get the good movable stand!)

In terms of the input lag comment, that is not true. Almost every LCD including tn-film tends to have a 15-45ms lag between the image render and the actual visual output on the screen.(This includes the BenQ) There are a few exceptions with extremely low input lag in tn-film, however those are rare.

Side Note: I've been wondering why there hasn't been a good 24" AS-IPS panel similar to the famous 20" Nec out there... that would be a popular model...

klankymen · Post by **klankymen** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:26 pm

merlin wrote: In terms of the input lag comment, that is not true. Almost every LCD including tn-film tends to have a 15-45ms lag between the image render and the actual visual output on the screen.(This includes the BenQ) There are a few exceptions with extremely low input lag in tn-film, however those are rare.

Allow me to disagree... proof:

BenQ and old CRT, attached using clone mode, with a millisecond stopwatch.... and the times are identical in the photographs.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:53 pm

klankymen wrote:
merlin wrote: In terms of the input lag comment, that is not true. Almost every LCD including tn-film tends to have a 15-45ms lag between the image render and the actual visual output on the screen.(This includes the BenQ) There are a few exceptions with extremely low input lag in tn-film, however those are rare.
Allow me to disagree... proof:

BenQ and old CRT, attached using clone mode, with a millisecond stopwatch.... and the times are identical in the photographs.

Hmm.. perhaps that's the best case situation. There are times when the input lag can hit 0, however on average it's about 2 frame behind. The review here states the benq had about a 2 frame input lag. See here: http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm

Also a really trusted site shows even the fastest tn-film has some input lag (although extremely tiny):
http://www.behardware.com/articles/632- ... s-yes.html

klankymen · Post by **klankymen** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:39 pm

merlin wrote:http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm

notice the article says:

BenQ FP241WZ

This is the model with socalled AMA-Z BFI (Black Frame Insertion) technoloy, which simulates the flicker of a CRT, and supposedly reduces blurring effect. However this has the disadvantage that the frames have to be calculated differently (or something) and therefore are stored in the monitor's cache for a few frames in order for the monitor to be able to "think ahead".

I however have the FP241W (without the Z), which doesn't sufffer from this "disease", and doesn't lag. But I'm willing to believe if you say in a worst case scenario this monitor DOES lag, if you would tell me what I have to do to simulate this worst case.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:42 pm

klankymen wrote:
merlin wrote:http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm
notice the article says:
BenQ FP241WZ
This is the model with socalled AMA-Z BFI (Black Frame Insertion) technoloy, which simulates the flicker of a CRT, and supposedly reduces blurring effect. However this has the disadvantage that the frames have to be calculated differently (or something) and therefore are stored in the monitor's cache for a few frames in order for the monitor to be able to "think ahead".

I however have the FP241W (without the Z), which doesn't sufffer from this "disease", and doesn't lag. But I'm willing to believe if you say in a worst case scenario this monitor DOES lag, if you would tell me what I have to do to simulate this worst case.

Hmm, even the non-z should have overdrive...which is the main cause of input lag. Without overdrive you would tend to see a lot more ghosting on the LCD. It's certainly possible they've improved the overdrive enough on this monitor to avoid the input lag issues of the past. I'm just going on past experience and it seems you've gotten better results than that. Your experiences are just as valid if you're seeing something better.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:53 pm

HELP!

I have been on hardforum.com for a week.

read 100's of posts... it is the best place for info on displays.

However, you dont get the simple, helpful answers like you do from SPCR people. If you had a choice and money WAS an issue but you could justify spending more if it really was worth it, which would you get?

Benq 24" - FP241VW
Planar 26" - PX2611W
LG 24" - L245WP-BN / LG L246WP-BN (button difference is all)

I hear that LG has SICK less than 20 ms lag and the benq is typical 30'ish for what it is. however, LG looks less luxurious with options and also has a lesser looking stand.

planar is stellar in many ways but I duno...

musicinmybrain · Post by **musicinmybrain** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:29 pm

I bought the LG L246W a week or so ago. The picture is beautiful, and I highly recommend it as long as you don't need an input it doesn't have. (There's one HDMI input, with a DVI to HDMI cable, one VGA D-Sub connection, and one component connection.) The LG stand looks much better in person than some of the photos online might suggest. It's elegant and understated, which I really like.

I'd be happy to answer questions about it or do any experiments with regards to color, etc. I know how obnoxious and confusing the monitor-researching process can be.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:00 pm

hi there, hope you return...

I was away working...

I want my widscreen to accept, somehow, a digital signal from DirectTV as well as the HD Channels and be happy with it looking pleasant. that's my goal.

hard freakin goal.

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:39 am

This X-bit labs article by Oleg Artamonov is well worth reading for in-depth discussion of LCD technologies and human visual/psycho perception -- Contemporary LCD Monitor Parameters: Objective and Subjective Analysis. Reading it taught me more than a few things. Some of you will recall that Oleg is also their PSU test man.

musicinmybrain · Post by **musicinmybrain** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:24 pm

~El~Jefe~, I assume you would use a DVI or HDMI input for your computer monitor. The quality is noticeably better than VGA/D-Sub, especially at such large resolutions.

The BenQ FP241VW has nearly every input known to man, which is nice. (D-Sub, DVI, HDMI, component, composite, and S-video are available.) It's more costly than the LG, though. I can't speak for or against its quality from personal experience and so unfortunately must refer you back to that 100+ page HardForum thread, which had me a little scared of it.

The Planar PX2611W has only DVI and D-Sub connectors, so you'd have to buy a DVI switch if you didn't want to use the analog connection for the computer. Oddly, I've seen more relatively cheap switches for HDMI than for DVI. (I have no experience with the linked site.)

The LG has HDMI, D-Sub, and component connections. This could be a good option if your DirectTV / HD box has component output. Make sure your provider doesn't cripple your signal with HDCP if you're planning to use an analog connection. This can be a problem with digital cable, from what I understand. However, the component connection should give you excellent quality. If you really wanted to use a digital connection, or your box does not have component outputs, then you could buy an HDMI switch box (see above). That would also allow you to display a HDCP-crippled signal. The LG has picture-in-picture and picture-by-picture options if you're using component as one of your inputs. It would be nice if it had composite or s-video inputs, but that's not a problem for my use.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:08 pm

very intelligent ideas about the inputs.

unfortunately, digital tv going into the LG, the Benq and especially 24" dells, is all messed up and doesnt scale properly at all. 720p works on all monitors perfectly. Too bad some chanels broadcast in 1080i.

side note/rant: 1080i is really a crappy format. "it is fine except for motion images" what the hell on tv that people watch isnt in motion? my point exactly. I wish all of hdtv was in 720p and it just sat there until it was all 1080p in 2015 or so. LCD's and plasmas are progressive machines too, so no freakin reason for 1080i.

480i and 480p are BY FAR the most important resolutions that need to look perfect and be in 100% viewable condition in "aspect mode" and not get "cropped". Too bad 4:3 doesnt actually work on any monitor in existence. no firmware shows it properly according to all the reviews I have read. Why? nothing really besides crapp firmware writers not caring about the end product.

Also, some people above believe that there are different panels for the same models out. there arent. Benq FP241VW = A-MVA, LG246 = P-MVA, dell 24's = pva. I dont like pva for the things I want to do.

anyone try using HDMI in from a cable box or dtv satellite on regular, non hd channels on any of the 24" monitors out? can it do 1:1 pixel mapping as well properly stretch to the side to side in correct ratio with proper black bands on the top?

so far no one has reported it to work. 480i/480p just get left out of the pic

Wibla · Post by **Wibla** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:34 am

I have the LG L246W and im very happy with it.

Pros:

- Stand is good, albeit abit large for my current desk - wont be a problem when i get it home
- You can turn off the goddamn power led
- Very, very good colours, and decent blacks with light off - better than my 22" Viewsonic (which is a TN panel).
- VERY good view angles
- Handles movies/gaming pretty good for a big monitor - but seriously, anything but 720p and up doesnt look as good if you're up close... 1080p from a pc is amazing (tested with Sin City 1080p)

Cons:

- only 2port usb hub, and i hear rumors its not powered - not a big deal for me, but will be for some
- lowest height setting on the stand is about 5-7cm (2-3") from the table, NEC lcd's go lower
- abit too bright at default settings?

Edit: a little note on TN panels

AVOID TN panels, they are CRAP compared to (S-)IPS/PVA/MVA panels

Snowdog · Post by **Snowdog** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:04 pm

Personally I don't like VA/TN (bought two VA's and one TN) panels and will only look at IPS panels going forward. The reason for me is viewing angle numbers quoted by manufacturers are a joke. Only IPS offers me (highly subjective, some people think TN has good viewing angles) a reasonable real world approximation of CRT viewing angles. IPS are hard to find or expensive. Examples:

Apple Cinema Series panels in 20" - 30" are all IPS.

20"
Dell 2007 WFP (if you get lucky they mix in PVA)

Or what I am waiting for a sale on:
30" 2560x1600
3007 WFP

subsonik · Post by **subsonik** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:23 pm

I'm using an Acer AL2423W since a few months already. It is (was?) one of the cheapest non-TN 24" monitors out there.

Pro:
- image quality, color reproduction (S-IPS panel, and a good one)
- smooth screen surface, but not too reflective. Very smooth colors.

Cons:
- Screen stand is el cheapo, and very wobbly. Doesn't allow portrait mode.
- Noise! Backlight is PWM-dimmed, gets noisy when the brightness is set at anything below 75%. Higher brightness is just too bright during the evening...
- Even more noise! The screen construction makes cracking sounds when warming up or cooling down. It often keeps me awake for a long time, as my PC is in my bedroom. (note: I did open the screen, to check whether I could mod the backlight. Don't know whether the monitor crackled before that.)

All in all, not a recommendation for silent PC lovers. However, other owners of this monitor don't seem to hear the backlight buzz. Probably drowned out by their screaming PC's.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:40 pm

I think the two best out when you consider gaming yet full 1920x1200 is the LG which is 620 dollars (great price)

and the one I just BOUGHT!

yay!

thanx for info. I went on hardforum and chatted there, found a 26" Planar. H-ips panel. blam. pretty