Need help with my routers.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:00 am

I'm adding a second router to a home network, but using two routers makes it very unstable. Some URL's works, while some of them never works.
Some sites shows up with text only, but after some reloading it gets better.
I searched for "two routers no internet" and got a lot of results, but nothing that really helped me.

Code: Select all

(landline)----(ZyXEL PH-660H-D1)----(D-Link DI-524) - - (WLAN) - - Laptop
                                                  |
                                                  |------(LAN)-----PC

Both routers works well when they're not connected to each other. Two routers are needed since one is also a modem and the other has WLAN.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:26 am

I had a similar setup recently. The modem part was configured in "bridge mode".

I just had a look at a Zyxel manual, the setting appears to be under "ISP Parameters for Internet Access". You can select either "Routing" or "Bridge" mode.

Hope this helps.

tehfire · Post by **tehfire** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:28 am

Did you turn off the DHCP service on the D-Link router? Perhaps if both DHCP services are running, it's causing a conflict. If all is working correctly, only the ZyXEL should hand out IP addresses, and the D-Link will work only as a wireless/wired switch...

Matija · Post by **Matija** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:33 am

Check if you can access those sites through their IP addresses.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:07 am

tehfire wrote:Did you turn off the DHCP service on the D-Link router? Perhaps if both DHCP services are running, it's causing a conflict. If all is working correctly, only the ZyXEL should hand out IP addresses, and the D-Link will work only as a wireless/wired switch...

+1, turning off DHCP must be done as you are asking the router to act in bridge mode.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:13 am

The way I had mine set up was with the modem/router in bridge mode, and the wireless router handling login and DHCP. So in the OP's network, the Zyxel is the modem in bridge mode, and the D-link router is the DHCP server (which should be its default configuration). In this scenario, the Zyxel should be operating purely as a modem, with routing functions disabled.

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:26 am

alleycat wrote:The way I had mine set up was with the modem/router in bridge mode, and the wireless router handling login and DHCP. So in the OP's network, the Zyxel is the modem in bridge mode, and the D-link router is the DHCP server (which should be its default configuration). In this scenario, the Zyxel should be operating purely as a modem, with routing functions disabled.

I'd rather do it alleycat's way (Zyxel as modem only, D-Link as router) rather than Zyxel as modem/router and D-Link as switch/WAP. Easier to troubleshoot when something starts acting up.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:44 pm

Thank you all for your help.

I disabled DHCP on the D-Link, but internet didn't work at all after that.
Another problem I'm facing now is that I can't enter the configuration page on the ZyXEL, even after a reset.

I have no idea what to do.

flyingsherpa · Post by **flyingsherpa** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:02 pm

ilovejedd wrote:
alleycat wrote:The way I had mine set up was with the modem/router in bridge mode, and the wireless router handling login and DHCP. So in the OP's network, the Zyxel is the modem in bridge mode, and the D-link router is the DHCP server (which should be its default configuration). In this scenario, the Zyxel should be operating purely as a modem, with routing functions disabled.
I'd rather do it alleycat's way (Zyxel as modem only, D-Link as router) rather than Zyxel as modem/router and D-Link as switch/WAP. Easier to troubleshoot when something starts acting up.

I third this. I did exactly that at my dad's house and it worked well.

Mats, you'll probably need to connect a pc directly to the Zyxel (not going through the d-link) to configure it properly into bridge mode. I seem to recall you need to give it a fixed IP, then connect everything back to how it was and tell the d-link to get WAN from the Zyxel fixed IP. There may be other ways, but that is how I recall doing it (it was a while ago though).

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:03 pm

On the D-Link, plug your line from the modem into LAN port 1. You won't use the WAN port anymore. I had to do this with my DI-524 when using it this way. Do you know you can most likely flash the 524 into the 624 if it's the right revision? I flashed mine...the best part it was $25 with FS and a $25 rebate. I got a DI-624 for free!

edit: looking at the way I have my DI-624 set up:

WAN side:
static IP, 127.0.0.1
subnet mask, 255.0.0.0
isp gateway address, 127.0.0.2
primary dns address, 127.0.0.3
secondary dns address, 127.0.04

LAN side:
a static IP on my internal network to make it easy to find
subnet, 255.255.255.0
dns relay, yes

DHCP:
disabled

I forget how much of this the DI-524 has in common with the 624.

edit2: the above assumes you are having the modem handle routing also.

Hope this helps, any more questions just ask! Also I agree with the above--I would probably separate the modem duties and the routing duties with the 2 devices.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:32 pm

ilovejedd wrote:
alleycat wrote:The way I had mine set up was with the modem/router in bridge mode, and the wireless router handling login and DHCP. So in the OP's network, the Zyxel is the modem in bridge mode, and the D-link router is the DHCP server (which should be its default configuration). In this scenario, the Zyxel should be operating purely as a modem, with routing functions disabled.
I'd rather do it alleycat's way (Zyxel as modem only, D-Link as router) rather than Zyxel as modem/router and D-Link as switch/WAP. Easier to troubleshoot when something starts acting up.

Setting one up as bridge is certainly the correct way to go, but I believe traditional thinking is that it is the WAP that should be the bridge and the router be the thing directly connected to the WAN and running the DHCP server. The problem with doing things the other way is that now you have the potential of interference between the DHCP running on the WAP and the DHCP coming from the WAN (ISP). I think that is the problem the OP is now experiencing.

EDIT: The way you and alleycat have things set up should work fine, but proper setup may be less obvious. For many routers, it is crucial that the modem is not plugged into the WAN port of bridged router, but instead just a normal port, and the bridged router be connected to the WAP via the WAP's WAN port. On the other hand, doing it the way I suggest, the modem gets plugged into the WAN port of the non-bridged router, just as one would normally expect.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:34 pm

jessekopelman wrote:I believe traditional thinking is that it is the WAP that should be the bridge and the router be the thing directly connected to the WAN and running the DHCP server

This would be true if you're connecting a WAP only, however the D-link is a router/WAP. Also, notice in the OP's diagram, he is connecting the two PCs to the D-link, thus requiring DHCP capabilities. A bit of googling around and you'll find that it is commonly recommended to set things up the way I have suggested.

The final configuration should look like this:

Code: Select all

(landline)----(ZyXEL PH-660H-D1)(LAN) ---- (WAN)(D-Link DI-524) - - (WLAN) - - Laptop 
                                                              | 
                                                              |------(LAN)-----PC

I found a tutorial which will hopefully assist.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:28 am

flyingsherpa wrote:Mats, you'll probably need to connect a pc directly to the Zyxel (not going through the d-link) to configure it properly into bridge mode.

I have tried this several times before, but it doesn't work.

The login window doesn't even show up.
Also, only the first LAN port works on the ZyXEL, and that reduces the number of combinations for the setup.

I will try psiu's suggestion later on, now it's time to go outside, great weather here! (right now).

quikkie · Post by **quikkie** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:10 am

the way I did it on my network:
adsl router (linksys wag354g) configured with my ISP settings, and everything else turned off (dhcp, wifi, dns). I also set up the internal/lan IP address to .1
My wrt54g (running dd-wrt) I set to .2 with a default gateway of .1, I configured wifi, dns, dhcp and deconfigured the firewall. I told the router not to connect to an ISP i.e. instead of a pppoe/pppoa connection I set that to disabled.

This means that all devices are on the same network, I can log in to both router and access point without needing extra routing configured. My wrt54g is basically acting as a wifi access point with a switch. The wrt54g allows me to assign the "wan" port to the switch so I now have a 5 port switch

I have done it another way too:
I had a vonage router plugged into my cable modem and then the wrt54g plugged in behind it i.e. cable modem into wan port of vonage router, lan port of vonage router into wan port of wrt54g. If you make sure the lans are addressed differently (default lan IP addressing was different on these routers) then all I needed to get to the vonage router was a route on the vonage router pointing back towards the wrt54g for the lan behind the wrt54g.
From memory if I plugged directly into the vonage router I'd get a dhcp address in the 192.168.15.x range and if I plugged in to the wrt54g (or turned on my wifi) I'd get a 192.168.0.x IP.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:19 am

Mats wrote:The login window doesn't even show up.

At this point I can't tell what you know, so some things you can try with the PC connected directly to the Zyxel:

- Is Javascript enabled in your browser?
- Are you able to ping the Zyxel?
- Have you entered the correct IP address? It may be different to the default (use IPCONFIG /ALL to find the default gateway)
- Your computer's TCP/IP properties need to be set to obtain addresses automatically

All this info should be in the Zyxel manual.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:30 am

Make sure you don't have settings in your pc conflicting with your attempt to access the Zyxel.

If you get back to getting that to work, I think the easiest approach is to have Zyxel plugged in and running. Then, power off, plug in D-Link to the Zyxel on the WAN port, and restart them both.

The Zyxel should only see the D-Link, the D-Link will handle routing for everything downstream of it.

That's the "standard" way this would be done.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:35 pm

alleycat wrote: This would be true if you're connecting a WAP only, however the D-link is a router/WAP. Also, notice in the OP's diagram, he is connecting the two PCs to the D-link, thus requiring DHCP capabilities.

No, you misunderstand. The WAP in bridge mode will pass DHCP from the other router. Again, not saying your way doesn't work; just saying it requires a slightly less intuitive setup (based on the way ports are labeled on most routers). Doing any multi-router setup using the wrong ports, when your WAN/ISP connection uses a dynamic IP address, will not work.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:26 am

I'll have to take your word for it, as I've never tried it that way round, and I no longer have the equipment to test it. I now better understand what you're saying, although personally I find it less intuitive, and I haven't come across any examples of it done that way.

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:48 am

It should be noted that not all cable modems are capable of handing out multiple IP addresses, or even if they are capable, modems rented from your ISP can be locked down to prevent it. I know that's the case with my Motorola Surfboard.

I find it less disruptive to my network set-up (I've got quite a bit of port forwards and static DHCPs assigned) to leave the routing and DHCP to my router (WRT54GL w/Tomato firmware) rather than rely on the ISP-issued cable modem. Delegating DHCP tasks to your personal router also makes it easier to switch ISPs.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:37 am

ilovejedd wrote:It should be noted that not all cable modems are capable of handing out multiple IP addresses, or even if they are capable, modems rented from your ISP can be locked down to prevent it. I know that's the case with my Motorola Surfboard.

I find it less disruptive to my network set-up (I've got quite a bit of port forwards and static DHCPs assigned) to leave the routing and DHCP to my router (WRT54GL w/Tomato firmware) rather than rely on the ISP-issued cable modem. Delegating DHCP tasks to your personal router also makes it easier to switch ISPs.

Yep, this is why I put the standard arrangement in my last post, it's just easier that way. The cable/dsl modem has one device connected to it whether it's a pc or router is irrelevant really. Then just pop in a router and let it handle things downstream.

fiberchina89 · Post by **fiberchina89** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:57 am

The main thing is will not quarrel in the course of dispute!

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:15 am

I have a similar setup at work, but after the DSL Modem/Router is a GNAT Box (Firewall) that is a closed system administered remotely by our corporate IT firm. The GNAT box give us our VPN and DHCP service, which goes to a Dell 24-port switch. From there it goes wired to most of the clients in the system with one lead to an old Linksys WRT54G router. Since the GNAT already provides DHCP, the WRT54G doesn't need to, so it is configured in bridge mode. However, you cannot use the WAN port in this mode (as least that I could find), you just connect everything to the LAN ports. It works just like a switch + WiFi AP in this mode and as long as its IP is kept static, it works just fine.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:34 am

It's been a long time since my last post. I wanted to help a friend with this, but it never worked as expected, back then I had too much work to do and never looked into this again until now.

The ZyXEL is a combined modem and router with four LAN ports and no WLAN.
I know I've been able to use both routers before, but now it seems like there's something wrong with the ZyXEL:

1 - I can't access the configuration, 192.168.1.1
2 - I just found out that the ZyXEL doesn't assign a local IP, if I run ipconfig I can only see the IP given by the ISP!!!? Just like when a computer is connected directly to internet without any router. This confuses me, but it does explain #1.
3 - For the same reason, only the first LAN port works.

Unless anyone have here can tell me what's going on, I guess a new modem would be the best.

Thank you all again for your help.

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:01 pm

It's in bridge mode. You should be able to access the web interface if you manually set up your NIC.

Alternatively, reset the router (there should be a small button recessed on the back, press and hold it for 30 seconds).