Has anyone else pondered over the fact that the new Intel iMac has a laptop CPU in it, that has a thermal envelope of 27Watts? From all reports, the last G5 iSight model was quiet except for the hard drive. You would have to assume that this model will be even quieter, with a CPU that uses only 27 Watts! You can always swap out the hard drive if it's too noisy....
I've been thinking I'll wait until Conroe before getting an Intel mac, but now that I think about it, this Core Duo iMac could be the quietest modern iMac that they ever make. They'll probably never make one with laptop chips in it ever again....
Is anyone else thinking of getting a Core Duo iMac?
Intel iMac - Core Duo
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
I ordered the 17-inch iMac Core Duo yesterday, and should have it in a couple of days. ($1175 at Amazon after $125 rebate).
I'm an acoustical consultant, and have access to $10,000 B&K sound level meters. I plan on doing my own set of noise level measurements when I get it.
What software is typically used to ramp up the processor?
For what it's worth:
1) Subjective reports that I've seen indicate that it is very quiet.
2) Apple' own ISO 9296 measurements (standardized measurement procedures) indicate that noise is 20 dBA at operator position (both idle and "hard drive accessing") for the 17-inch model, and 22 dBA for the 20-inch model. This is at operator position. For more info, see:
http://images.apple.com/environment/res ... specs.html
Not all models have ISO 9296 noise data, but the iMac Core Duo does.
And a bit of history in my decision to go the Mac route:
- I bought a Shuttle XPC Zen ST62k but it's been problematic (suffering from very well-documented problems of seeing the wrong front side bus speed on start up, and refusal to boot. (See the forums at Suhdian.) This second issue made me have to take it apart and send the motherboard back to Shuttle. This computer makes me nervous, as it seems very unreliable. Eventually, it seems like everyone burns out their fan headers even with relatively cool Northwoods in it.
- I need something that will run Pro Tools audio software smoothly. Pro Tools is unbelievably finicky on the PC, and it's very very tough to get the right combination of mother board, processor, video card, firewire card, etc. that will work with Pro Tools and be quiet and be SFF. After doing oodles of research, the best three options were the Shuttle SD115G5, the Shuttle SN95G5 and the Aopen EY855-II. But the SN95G5 is AMD socket 939, and I believe that to run quietly needs to have "Cool'n Quiet" enabled...but you need to disable Cool'n Quiet with Pro Tools (along with all kinds of other stuff that you'd want to have enabled with daily PC use). So that leaves the SD11G5 and the EY855-II. But these are not dual core Pentium Ms, and have good performance for now, but seem like they are on the verge of being outdated whenever dual-core pentium M's SFF barebones come out. (I look forward to SFF dual core pentium M's...Shuttle?? Aopen?? Where are you?)
So then I went back to my old friend Apple. True, there is no Universal Binary Pro Tools out yet, but supposedly it'll be in May. In the mean time, I can run Ableton Live or Garage Band or Logic, for which there are native versions that run very very fast.
And again, all reports are that the new iMacs are very quiet.
And IMHO, OS X is SO SO much better to look at than Windows. (Window's bad color choices and overall poor aesthetic is one of the mysteries of life.) But if the Zen ends up working again, I'll still have that for Pro Tools until the native Mac version comes out in May. (For what it's worth, the Zen was wonderfully quiet (with suspended hard drive) while it was working (about one week).)
And Apple support is light years better than Shuttle and Aopen, in my experience. Shuttle is almost comical at best, and insulting at worst. And judging by Aopen's web site, they must have god awful support.
All in all, Apple seemed more deserving of my money.
Anyway, like I said, I'll post my sound level measurements after I get the iMac up and running. A formal SPCR review would be nice, though.
Avi
I'm an acoustical consultant, and have access to $10,000 B&K sound level meters. I plan on doing my own set of noise level measurements when I get it.
What software is typically used to ramp up the processor?
For what it's worth:
1) Subjective reports that I've seen indicate that it is very quiet.
2) Apple' own ISO 9296 measurements (standardized measurement procedures) indicate that noise is 20 dBA at operator position (both idle and "hard drive accessing") for the 17-inch model, and 22 dBA for the 20-inch model. This is at operator position. For more info, see:
http://images.apple.com/environment/res ... specs.html
Not all models have ISO 9296 noise data, but the iMac Core Duo does.
And a bit of history in my decision to go the Mac route:
- I bought a Shuttle XPC Zen ST62k but it's been problematic (suffering from very well-documented problems of seeing the wrong front side bus speed on start up, and refusal to boot. (See the forums at Suhdian.) This second issue made me have to take it apart and send the motherboard back to Shuttle. This computer makes me nervous, as it seems very unreliable. Eventually, it seems like everyone burns out their fan headers even with relatively cool Northwoods in it.
- I need something that will run Pro Tools audio software smoothly. Pro Tools is unbelievably finicky on the PC, and it's very very tough to get the right combination of mother board, processor, video card, firewire card, etc. that will work with Pro Tools and be quiet and be SFF. After doing oodles of research, the best three options were the Shuttle SD115G5, the Shuttle SN95G5 and the Aopen EY855-II. But the SN95G5 is AMD socket 939, and I believe that to run quietly needs to have "Cool'n Quiet" enabled...but you need to disable Cool'n Quiet with Pro Tools (along with all kinds of other stuff that you'd want to have enabled with daily PC use). So that leaves the SD11G5 and the EY855-II. But these are not dual core Pentium Ms, and have good performance for now, but seem like they are on the verge of being outdated whenever dual-core pentium M's SFF barebones come out. (I look forward to SFF dual core pentium M's...Shuttle?? Aopen?? Where are you?)
So then I went back to my old friend Apple. True, there is no Universal Binary Pro Tools out yet, but supposedly it'll be in May. In the mean time, I can run Ableton Live or Garage Band or Logic, for which there are native versions that run very very fast.
And again, all reports are that the new iMacs are very quiet.
And IMHO, OS X is SO SO much better to look at than Windows. (Window's bad color choices and overall poor aesthetic is one of the mysteries of life.) But if the Zen ends up working again, I'll still have that for Pro Tools until the native Mac version comes out in May. (For what it's worth, the Zen was wonderfully quiet (with suspended hard drive) while it was working (about one week).)
And Apple support is light years better than Shuttle and Aopen, in my experience. Shuttle is almost comical at best, and insulting at worst. And judging by Aopen's web site, they must have god awful support.
All in all, Apple seemed more deserving of my money.
Anyway, like I said, I'll post my sound level measurements after I get the iMac up and running. A formal SPCR review would be nice, though.
Avi
I've been doing some research on the 17 inch Intel iMac (thinking about getting one for my dad for video editing) and found this about it's hard drive:
Apple Computer's 1.83GHz iMac Core Duo is the first desktop system to be based on an Intel-manufactured microprocessor carries and carries a Bill of Materials (BOM) cost of $873, according to preliminary data from an iSuppli Corp.'s teardown analysis.
The new iMac, introduced by Apple chief executive Steve Jobs at last week's MacWorld Expo, is based on Intel's Core Duo microprocessor. Additionally, iSuppli's teardown of the system revealed that Apple also is using Intel's mobile 945 core-logic chipset to support the Core Duo microprocessor. The firm estimates the cost of the microprocessor is $265, while the two-device chipset carries a combined cost of $45.
Together, the Intel microprocessor and Mobile 945 chipset account for 35 percent of the new iMac's total BOM, according to Andrew Rassweiler, teardown services manager and senior analyst for iSuppli.
"The Intel chips in the iMac are designed for use in notebook PCs, rather than desktops," the firm said. While this may seem surprising, iSuppli believes Apple's decision to use Intel's notebook-oriented solution in its desktop iMac was a logical move.
"Users want quiet and powerful machines," said Matthew Wilkins, senior analyst for compute platforms research for iSuppli. "Intel is very focused on designing microprocessors that deliver the maximum performance without generating excessive heat or consuming huge amounts of power. For now, the Intel Core Duo fits that bill perfectly."
In addition to the $873 BOM, the iMac carries a $25 manufacturing and test cost, adding up to an $898 cost, said iSuppli. This cost estimate does not account for other items included in the box with the iMac, including the keyboard, the mouse and documentation. Apple is sells the same model for a suggested retail price of $1,299.
According to the teardown, other major elements contributing to the iMac's BOM cost include a 17-inch wide-format LCD panel made by LG.Philips, DiamondMax 10/6L160M0HDD 160Gbyte SATA hard disk drive from Maxtor Corp, Radeon X1600 graphics processor ($30) from ATI Technologies and Double-Data Rate (DDR) SDRAM ($20 per 256MB) from Samsung Electronics.
For additional info on the new iMac Core Duo, check out AppleInsider's closer look at the system's architecture.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1477
This is apparently the same hard drive at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6822144182
Apple Computer's 1.83GHz iMac Core Duo is the first desktop system to be based on an Intel-manufactured microprocessor carries and carries a Bill of Materials (BOM) cost of $873, according to preliminary data from an iSuppli Corp.'s teardown analysis.
The new iMac, introduced by Apple chief executive Steve Jobs at last week's MacWorld Expo, is based on Intel's Core Duo microprocessor. Additionally, iSuppli's teardown of the system revealed that Apple also is using Intel's mobile 945 core-logic chipset to support the Core Duo microprocessor. The firm estimates the cost of the microprocessor is $265, while the two-device chipset carries a combined cost of $45.
Together, the Intel microprocessor and Mobile 945 chipset account for 35 percent of the new iMac's total BOM, according to Andrew Rassweiler, teardown services manager and senior analyst for iSuppli.
"The Intel chips in the iMac are designed for use in notebook PCs, rather than desktops," the firm said. While this may seem surprising, iSuppli believes Apple's decision to use Intel's notebook-oriented solution in its desktop iMac was a logical move.
"Users want quiet and powerful machines," said Matthew Wilkins, senior analyst for compute platforms research for iSuppli. "Intel is very focused on designing microprocessors that deliver the maximum performance without generating excessive heat or consuming huge amounts of power. For now, the Intel Core Duo fits that bill perfectly."
In addition to the $873 BOM, the iMac carries a $25 manufacturing and test cost, adding up to an $898 cost, said iSuppli. This cost estimate does not account for other items included in the box with the iMac, including the keyboard, the mouse and documentation. Apple is sells the same model for a suggested retail price of $1,299.
According to the teardown, other major elements contributing to the iMac's BOM cost include a 17-inch wide-format LCD panel made by LG.Philips, DiamondMax 10/6L160M0HDD 160Gbyte SATA hard disk drive from Maxtor Corp, Radeon X1600 graphics processor ($30) from ATI Technologies and Double-Data Rate (DDR) SDRAM ($20 per 256MB) from Samsung Electronics.
For additional info on the new iMac Core Duo, check out AppleInsider's closer look at the system's architecture.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1477
This is apparently the same hard drive at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6822144182
Thanks for the interesting BOM info.
I don't think you can predict which hard drive you're going to get with an iMac. Some people have Seagates, others Maxtor (though Seagate has bought or will be buying Maxtor), even with the 160 GB model. Some models have Western Digital.
From what I can tell, it's random. But I've only seen one report of a noisy (Seagate) hard drive in the new iMac.
See:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=283916
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=283259
Avi
I don't think you can predict which hard drive you're going to get with an iMac. Some people have Seagates, others Maxtor (though Seagate has bought or will be buying Maxtor), even with the 160 GB model. Some models have Western Digital.
From what I can tell, it's random. But I've only seen one report of a noisy (Seagate) hard drive in the new iMac.
See:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=283916
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=283259
Avi
Wow, that was fast...
SPCR has a review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article306-page1.html
"The iMac is by far the quietest computer I've ever used. It isn't completely silent, I estimate the light hush from the fans to be roughly equivalent to an 80mm Panaflo at 7V from about a foot or 18 inches away. I don't hear the hard drive at all even when reading and writing many GB's. This was a very welcome surprise for somebody who highly values a silent PC! "
Avi
SPCR has a review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article306-page1.html
"The iMac is by far the quietest computer I've ever used. It isn't completely silent, I estimate the light hush from the fans to be roughly equivalent to an 80mm Panaflo at 7V from about a foot or 18 inches away. I don't hear the hard drive at all even when reading and writing many GB's. This was a very welcome surprise for somebody who highly values a silent PC! "
Avi
Yeah, I think it is a bit of a lottery. Though I believe the Seagate hard drive is noisier than the Maxtor because of some "self check" routine, where the hard drive is doing some sort of diagnostic when idle.
I remember experiencing this with a Seagate 160 GB hard drive I bought a couple of years ago. I can't remember the model, but I bought it because I have another Seagate 60 GB drive that is dead silent, and I naively thought that all Seagates were quiet. Not. The clicking diagnostic noise was very audible, and I even thought the disk was defective.
Seagate claims that they need to implement this to ensure top-notch performance.
Anyway, if I get a clicky iMac, I'll complain and will exchange. Because of access to nice sound measurement equipment, I can actually verify noise levels and confirm whether the machine complies with Apple's published noise rating.
Also, for what it's worth, I've only read of clicky Seagate hard drives in the 17-inch model. The computer in the SPCR review was a 20-inch...though as I noted above, Apple's published noise ratings indicate that the 20-inch is 2 db louder than the 17-inch. (For those unversed with decibels, a 2 dB difference is barely noticeable to most people. Of course the character of the noise may be different - and more or less objectionable, even at the same dB rating.)
Avi
I remember experiencing this with a Seagate 160 GB hard drive I bought a couple of years ago. I can't remember the model, but I bought it because I have another Seagate 60 GB drive that is dead silent, and I naively thought that all Seagates were quiet. Not. The clicking diagnostic noise was very audible, and I even thought the disk was defective.
Seagate claims that they need to implement this to ensure top-notch performance.
Anyway, if I get a clicky iMac, I'll complain and will exchange. Because of access to nice sound measurement equipment, I can actually verify noise levels and confirm whether the machine complies with Apple's published noise rating.
Also, for what it's worth, I've only read of clicky Seagate hard drives in the 17-inch model. The computer in the SPCR review was a 20-inch...though as I noted above, Apple's published noise ratings indicate that the 20-inch is 2 db louder than the 17-inch. (For those unversed with decibels, a 2 dB difference is barely noticeable to most people. Of course the character of the noise may be different - and more or less objectionable, even at the same dB rating.)
Avi
The iMac has 3 fans inside it, in addition to the hard drive.
It might be quiet, but for how long? Fans wear out and these are not replacement fans you can get from the local shop on the corner.
I have a hard drive enclosure 2.5 for travelling with, and when it's turned on even when it's inside it's padded wallet, I can feel the vibration on the desk.
I had the feeling that a hd and 3 fans behind the iMac might cause subtle monitor vibration.
I dunno, I'm not sold on it yet.. mostly because of the 3 fans issue more than anything else.
The mini only has 1 fan a 60 mm blower style like on video cards I believe.
It might be quiet, but for how long? Fans wear out and these are not replacement fans you can get from the local shop on the corner.
I have a hard drive enclosure 2.5 for travelling with, and when it's turned on even when it's inside it's padded wallet, I can feel the vibration on the desk.
I had the feeling that a hd and 3 fans behind the iMac might cause subtle monitor vibration.
I dunno, I'm not sold on it yet.. mostly because of the 3 fans issue more than anything else.
The mini only has 1 fan a 60 mm blower style like on video cards I believe.
http://mactree.sannet.ne.jp/~kodawarisa ... tel01.html
I only see two fans in the current Intel iMac?
I only see two fans in the current Intel iMac?
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NeilBlanchard
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Greetings,
The 17" iMac CoreDuo doesn't vibrate. It is also near silent.
I'm trying to remember what brand HD has those five, heavy, rounded ribs, reinforcing the hub bearing. It is not a Samsung, AFAICT -- is it Western Digital, Hitachi, Maxtor?
The 17" iMac CoreDuo doesn't vibrate. It is also near silent.
I'm trying to remember what brand HD has those five, heavy, rounded ribs, reinforcing the hub bearing. It is not a Samsung, AFAICT -- is it Western Digital, Hitachi, Maxtor?
Last edited by NeilBlanchard on Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think they use several different hard drives, but this Maxtor is one of them:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6822144182
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6822144182
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NeilBlanchard
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- Posts: 7681
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Hello & welcome to SPCR!
Yes, it is normal -- what you are hearing is the seek noise; the heads inside the hard drive have to move very fast. Some HD's have less seek noise than others, though. It seems that your unit is using a different brand HD than the unit in the SPCR review? Did you opt for the larger HD?
Yes, it is normal -- what you are hearing is the seek noise; the heads inside the hard drive have to move very fast. Some HD's have less seek noise than others, though. It seems that your unit is using a different brand HD than the unit in the SPCR review? Did you opt for the larger HD?
I found this video (en francais) of the internals of a 17 inch (?) Intel Core Duo iMac:
http://svmmacblogs.vnunet.fr/2006/02/li ... roidi.html
http://svmmacblogs.vnunet.fr/2006/02/li ... roidi.html
Interesting; looks like some kind of heatpipe-based system similar to Hyphe's passive PC in the General Gallery.I found this video (en francais) of the internals of a 17 inch (?) Intel Core Duo iMac:
http://svmmacblogs.vnunet.fr/2006/02/li ... roidi.html