I just want silence!

Neros · Post by **Neros** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:35 pm

Hey everybody!

I'm considering a watercooling option. I'm not cheap, but want it to fit in my Antec SLK 3000 BQE case.

I'm just wondering, if this option could be more quite than my current setup.

Antec SLK 3000 BQE
Seasonic S12 430
Thermaltake SI-120
3x120mm Nexus Real Quite Fans
WD Raptor suspended in NiVibe V.

My current GFX is passive, but I'm changing to a GeForce 7800 GT or GTX (havn't decided if the GTX is worth it considering the posible overclock on the GT...)

My goal isn't to get a overclock (If it's possible I don't fear doing it) but most of all getting a quite system!

Watercooling or not?

msmrodan · Post by **msmrodan** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:09 pm

One word: Reserator

You'll be able to ditch the SI-120, GPU fan, and probably all of those nexus fans, leaving you with the PSU fan alone.

Basically the Reserator turns your computer into a dead box which clicks once in a while as the HD accesses something.

Neros · Post by **Neros** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:25 am

I'm considering a watercooling option. I'm not cheap, but want it to fit in my Antec SLK 3000 BQE case.

That monster will hardly fit into my case, which is a must, since the girlfriend thinks my computer is ugly enough as it is. She even hates my 19" Dell 1905FP LCD!!

I was more thinking in the lines of. Will the noise from a suspended Lating be equal, higher or lower than those otherwise wonderful 1000 rpm Nexus fans.

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:21 am

Neros wrote:That monster will hardly fit into my case, which is a must, since the girlfriend thinks my computer is ugly enough as it is. She even hates my 19" Dell 1905FP LCD!!

Is adding 'Girlfriend' to the list of possible upgrades an option?..

Pete

nici · Post by **nici** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:45 am

Want to trade? Send me your girlfriend and ill send you my reserator

No seriously, your GF should like the Reserator, after all it is very big and hard

StarfishChris · Post by **StarfishChris** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:47 pm

Maybe she would be happy with a Thermaltake Rocket instead?

(This isn't helpful ;P)
What processor do you have? If the motherboard allows it, you can try undervolting and then slow down the CPU fan - certainly possible with the SI-120. Do you have a fan at the front (sucking air in) and at the back (blowing it out)? You could try losing the front fan and see how much difference it makes - remember to monitor temperatures, though.

nici · Post by **nici** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:28 am

Yeah the TT Rocket has a rounder more pleasant top than the reserator..

Sorry about that.. Anyway, its pretty difficult to fit a internal watercooling system into a mid tower, you wont get away with just one 120mm radiator and there no room for 240mm rads so you would have to place them on the side panel or roof or something else wich maybe would not ook too neat.. I would stick to aircooling, you can get it so quiet your suspended HDDs will be the noisiest part. At least during idle, the chipset and GPU are the hardest parts to silence during load. But it can still be quiet at load.

A good GPU cooler, HDD suspension and some undrvolting of the fans and CPU(if your mobo allows it) might be a good start.

ckolivas · Post by **ckolivas** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:59 am

3 Nexus fans would probably provide enough airflow even at 5 or 7V to cool most hardware, and then they'd be basically inaudible. See how low you can drop your flow and still keep good temperatures. I think you'll find the hard drive ends up being your only noise if you do that. The seasonic will be louder than all 3 Nexus fans' noise summated but probably still quieter than the HD.

nici · Post by **nici** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:17 am

I agree with ckolivas, you dont need to do much really until you reach the point of your quiet HDD being the loudest part of your system.. Just takes some careful planning of the airflow, you dont want any to get wasted.
The HDD is a bitch to silence, but can be done with aircooling. You need a good enclosure wich both cools and makes it quieter, or some creative work with mass dampening and thick foam, you need good airflow but you dont want the noise escaping. Im talking about something similar to the "Bird-cage mod", search the forums

Seal all unneccessary holes with aluminium tape, and stop air from entering trhru the 5,25" bays. I like the 5,25" blocks from Nexus and AcoustiProducts for this. The acoustiproducts blocks are not avaiable separately though afaik, you only get them included with Acoustipack Deluxe package. Nexus DampTek blocks are available separately, 16,90€ for 2x5,25" and 2x,3,5" in Finland. You can use one 3,5" block to seal two 5,25" bays if you mount it vertically with the longer side down.

The AcoustiProducts blocks are better quality, heavier and softer. Its very durable and can be used for a lot of things with some imagination

The Nexus blocks are lighter and harder.

Neros · Post by **Neros** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:16 pm

Thanks for all the responses (ignoring the fallos-symbols)

I guess a pack of Acoustic Deluxe is the next step, since the fans are already on 7 volts and the Raptor is suspended in NoVibes V in the button in front of the 120 mm nexus front fan for less heat.

Maybe I'm just getting too serious about this, since then I told my girlfriend about my new silencing projekt, she told me that the most noisy part was my keyboard. (Now I'm waiting for the Saitek Eclipse to come though the door, replacing my Keytronic 2005 Pro keyboard.)

I think I'll try to uses some damping martial, when I get a weekend off, so I have time to enjoy the project. If I remember, I'll hook up some pictures of the beast.

oguzokay · Post by **oguzokay** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:53 am

I'm using an Innovatek Konvect O Matic Ultra Passive radiator to cool my p4 640, i955X NB, X850XT GPU and the HDD. It perfectly handles the job since I'm not into overclocking. All I wanted was silence and Innovatek gave me that!. There are no case fans at all. The noisiest part of my system is the XG Magnum PSU. I'll replace it with a fanless or Watercooled one soon.
Praising those magnificient pieces of German engineering

PS: In the past I tried passive water cooling with a Thermaltake Rocket Fanless radiator. It was far away from being sufficient for the CPU and GPU

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:21 pm

Stick with air. Get a T-balancer and enjoy the silence.

Overconfidence · Post by **Overconfidence** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:28 pm

You can get a thermochill pa160 along with a swiftech mcp350, a storm or really any swiftech CPU block as well as a swiftech GPU block, strap on a 5v Yate Loon, and you'll be laughing. As long as you don't overclock, at least.

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:38 pm

But a 5 V YL fan on a rad makes more noise alone than a whole computer made around Nexus fans, state of the art air heatsinks and active fan control.

Marci · Post by **Marci** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:46 am

So you keep on saying... but this is the Watercooling section...

zds · Post by **zds** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:06 am

snutten wrote:But a 5 V YL fan on a rad makes more noise alone than a whole computer made around Nexus fans, state of the art air heatsinks and active fan control.

I seriously doubt this. I also seriously doubt it's possible in normal room ambient noise level to hear 5v YL fan on rad at all, so the point is pretty much moot. Not to mention that the Nexus fans are made by Yate Loon, so basicly you are saying that "multiple YL fans produce less noise than a single one at same voltage" .

Marci · Post by **Marci** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:28 am

My entire point in multiple arguments... I've given up on it.

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:31 pm

Marci wrote:So you keep on saying... but this is the Watercooling section...

Well, Marci. This would be why i believe it's hardly off topic to suggest air in the w/c section:

Neros wrote:Watercooling or not?

You keep telling everybody to get a single Thermochill. I keep telling them it's not as quiet as a good air cooling solution. Certainly not as convenient, long lasting or cheap either. Also it's not as quiet as bigger and or more rads even if it means adding more fans. Please read this before you argue this point about more fans again. I have no personal interest in pushing for any special products or such. In fact I still believe in properly executed w/c and continue to improve on my own set. I hope I don't come out as offensive to you when we don't agree. If so, please let me know what you disliked and I'll listen. I simly feel most w/c sets are of poor design and tend to overlook the central point: to dump the heat quietly. So I react to statements like this (from an earlier w/c thread):

Marci wrote:It would do the job with best performance at lowest possible noise levels.
Bigger rads will do it better, but use more fans, therefore more noise.

I have already told you I run my 4412s at 3.3 V. It's just not that quiet, even when only one of them is running. But one would still think it's less noisy than any 5 V YL, which is a faster spinning fan to begin with?

zds wrote:
snutten wrote:But a 5 V YL fan on a rad makes more noise alone than a whole computer made around Nexus fans, state of the art air heatsinks and active fan control.
I seriously doubt this. I also seriously doubt it's possible in normal room ambient noise level to hear 5v YL fan on rad at all, so the point is pretty much moot. Not to mention that the Nexus fans are made by Yate Loon, so basicly you are saying that "multiple YL fans produce less noise than a single one at same voltage" .

What I keep saying is that multiple YL fans produce less noise than a single one pushing the same cfm. Obviously then not at the same voltage. What's weird about that, zds? Besides, in the statement above, you have completely misunderstanded what I tried to say. Multiple fans in a totally different case on a different heatsink, not on any rad, have little in common with that 5 V YL, even if the fans happen to be the same. From where did you get the notion that all those fans had to run at exacly 5 V? Or that a Nexus spins as fast as a YL at 5 V?

According to SPCR's recommended section Yate Loon is not as quiet as Nexus, but I have never even seen the YL myself so I can only repeat what others have told me. You may be right on this one. If you know the YL to perform as well as the Nexus fans you should tell everybody in the fan section i think. Too bad they're hard to find here in the EU.

You doubt it's possible to hear a 5 V fan on a rad in a normal room. I on the other hand sit right next to over 17 different quiet Papst and Nexus fans (I build computers), on rads or not, which I can regulate with a T-balancer and a Fan-O-Matic. You don't have to take my word for it if you don't like what I have to say. I hear every one of them down to about 200 rpm, at which point I must lean over my desk to pick up the faint sound. Even though this is total overkill it still makes a point in case: regular w/c is not any quieter, in contrast to what people tend to think. Again, 2 x 3.3 V on (not as good rads as PA admittedly) rads is by no means as quiet as a well made Nexus air machine's total noise. I have these computers right here next to me. I don't have to doubt anything. All I have to do is listen.

mattthemuppet · Post by **mattthemuppet** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:25 pm

just to add my 2c - it isn't very informative stating what voltage you run a fan at, as even fans made my the same manufacturer have different rated speeds. In other words, at 2500rpm@12V fan at 5V is going to be noisier than a 1000rpm@12V fan at 5V.

The lowest speed YL (D12SL-12) has a speed of ~1200rpm@12V. At 5V I can barely (as in the faintest suggestion of a whisper) hear it 4cm from my ear. At this voltage I'd guess (no rpm wire) it'll be at 550-600rpm, compared to 450-500rpm for the Nexus (a D12SL-12 with resistor to make 1000rpm@12V). Given that both of these fans @5V are likely to be producing less noise than ambient (unless you live somewhere exceptionally quiet with no noise sources in the house) they are both, relatively speaking, silent. The D12SM-12 I have is similarly below my noise floor, but it's higher top speed (1600rpm@12V) makes it considerably noisier at 12V than the SL. The SH model is noisier still. You can get all of these for not much money from Silencio_777 in Germany (on Ebay) and I'm very happy with the service I've received.

Whether or not several sub-audible fans are together more audible than one sub-audible fan is something I'm less certain about - I do know that turning off any or all of my fans in the case (1xDS12SL-12, 1xDS12SM-12 and 1xDS12SL-90) has no effect on the noise signature of my PC - the barely audible seeks of my suspended 7200.7 IDE remains the noise floor. However, and personally I think this is the point of watercooling, these fan settings don't leave me with a huge amount of headroom for more powerful/ hotter components, whereas watercooling, using similarly quiet fans, may do.

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:44 am

Good point.
The 4412s on my rads speed around 370 rpm. The Nexus fans in the air computer vary between 80 and about 300 rpm when I surf the internet. Gaming spins them up but then I don't care really.

I live in downtown Stockholm and wouldn't call my apartment especially noisy or quiet. To me it's very peculiar that you guys don't seem to hear a fan spinning over 500 rpm, not to mention if on a rad, where the fins add to the noise even if they are not as tightly set as on my Black Ice. (All my 4412 fans top out at around 1600 rpm, and run about 650 rpm at 5 V. So I think your estimated 550-600 rpm for the YL at 5 V is fairly accurate.)

It would be dumb to argue the lack of meaning in fiddling with sub-audible fans. On the other hand, if a cheaper air alternative reaches that very same goal... Unless one upgrades separate components frequently one probably wants to keep the old computer (which still needs cooling) or upgrade the heatsinks or w/c kit anyways when buying new. The old stuff seldom looks cool anymore, so to speak.

zds · Post by **zds** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:09 am

snutten wrote:To me it's very peculiar that you guys don't seem to hear a fan spinning over 500 rpm, not to mention if on a rad, where the fins add to the noise even if they are not as tightly set as on my Black Ice.

My understanding is that fins add _more_ noise if they are tightly packed. This is the same as in direct-air-cooling heatsinks: tighter packing increases air flow resistance, which in turn increases noise.

snutten wrote:On the other hand, if a cheaper air alternative reaches that very same goal... Unless one upgrades separate components frequently one probably wants to keep the old computer (which still needs cooling) or upgrade the heatsinks or w/c kit anyways when buying new. The old stuff seldom looks cool anymore, so to speak.

Yeah, for most people direct air is better. But for us who like to tinker, there is certain goals that cannot be met with air. For me one of them is that with water cooling the limit where computer becomes noisy can be raised significantly.

Another is that water cooling enables you to more easily add the radiating surface and thus achieve same level of cooling with less noise.Ultimate example of this are the passive water cooling systems like Reserator. Yes, you could most likely achieve same or better cooling without water flow and tubes if you mounted your MB horizontally and clamped Reserator aluminium tower on top of the CPU. But for all practical purposes, it makes more sense to move heat from CPU to such giant heatsink with some less direct way.

In the end you can think of water cooling loop like a thermal interface material that can be stretched over considerable length. And heat pipes are in a middle of silver paste and water loop in the length you can effectively move the heat.

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:12 am

I second every bit of that last post! The best thing about w/c is the ability to use huge heatsinks! It's almost impossible to beat a top w/c system.

Marci · Post by **Marci** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:25 am

My understanding is that fins add _more_ noise if they are tightly packed. This is the same as in direct-air-cooling heatsinks: tighter packing increases air flow resistance, which in turn increases noise.

Which goes alongside my point... the entire ThermoChill PA Series has the LOWEST FIN DENSITY AVAILABLE out of all the PC Watercooling rads. They were designed for minimal noise. Partner in the shroud of the PA160, or the PS series shrouds for the PA120 rads and you'll find almost all fin-generated / air friction noise is alleviated. This low fin density means they're MUCH more efficient with lowCFM fans... upto 40% more efficient... ThermoChill's entire outlook over the past 6 months has been shifted to produce radiators that are more efficient with the airflow given to them, with as little noise created as possible. Any other brand of rad with the same fan at the same voltage will result in more noise and higher temps than the equivalent PA Series rad with the same fan at the same voltage.