Will order asap, have I overlooked something?

noac · Post by **noac** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:37 am

The system:

Antec P180 (don't think I can keep the temps down in the P150 or get enough juice from the PSU)
Pentium D 830 (gift - can't be returned for a AMD)
w/ Scythe Ninja (passive)
SeaSonic 12-500 (will use SLI later, hence the W)
ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe
XFX 7800GT /light retail
w/ AC Silencer 5 Rev.3 (or Zalman VF700, haven't decided)
Samsung SP120 200GB
G.E.I.L Ultra 667 2*1024
NEC ND-3540A (what would I benefit from sata)

I read that Tyfon in Asia has made the memory prices are going up, might be smart to buy now instead of waiting until the Asus mobo comes into stock and the DDR2 costs another €30.

So before pressing the button Im wondering If I have overlooked something, does everything fit togheter? Maybe there is a better option for my purpose - running alot of programs at the same time and at nights play BF2.

The CPU isnt my first choice, and I know it gives me alot more heat and hence noise. I know that 7800GT isnt the quiet way to go but It will only be ramping up when I play. These things I can't change.

I would have like to use the P150 but I think to keep the heat down the P180 is the way to go. Also the 430W PSU on the P150 will force me to use up two molex connectors to give me another pci-e connector for SLI. And Im not even sure It can handle my rig, even do I think it would having read the articles about power issues here on SPCR. You agree? I will be adding, besides the second GPU, another HD and possibly a soundcard.

Anyways, any input is appreciated.

Thanks.

darthan · Post by **darthan** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:53 am

I think you have a pretty good set-up there for a starting silencing project. Yes, yes, I know you think this is a solid design and you hope you won't need to do much to make it better but when you go for silence you just keep tweaking until you can't hear your computer anymore and then you keep tweaking anyway cause you want to challenge yourself. Well, at least, that's what I would do if I just had the money...

. But seriously, good set-up considering you're stuck with the Pentium. The P180 is likely better choice for passively cooling the Pentium than the P150 would be although, depending on your hds, the suspension rig might have been nice in the P150. I will say that the Neo HE 430 would be more than enough power for your system, even if you did do SLI. The one problem it would have is that with SLI and two hard drives and an optical (or two) and a fan or two you'd run out of molexes quite quickly. The other recommendation is that you don't buy Geil RAM. I have had some bad experiences with them in the past-I'd say their RAM is cheaper for a reason.

noac · Post by **noac** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:11 am

darthan wrote:The P180 is likely better choice for passively cooling the Pentium than the P150 would be although, depending on your hds, the suspension rig might have been nice in the P150.

My very thoughts, maybe It would be worth adding an Adda 120 fan on the Ninja and live with it? The placement of the P180 chassi fans are splendid however, can't beat that. Im wondering, if you look close on the mobo, if the optional CPU fans that are included would work with the Scythe. They are both 1000 rpm and if they are quiet that might do it. However Im thinking the Ninja is too big so they wont fit.

darthan wrote: I will say that the Neo HE 430 would be more than enough power for your system, even if you did do SLI. The one problem it would have is that with SLI and two hard drives and an optical (or two) and a fan or two you'd run out of molexes quite quickly.

Hmm, getting me to take another glance at the p150, it would save alot of work and money for me. How restricted would I be, molex-wise?

darthan wrote: The other recommendation is that you don't buy Geil RAM. I have had some bad experiences with them in the past-I'd say their RAM is cheaper for a reason.

Damn, I really hope no one will concur. Im thinking the same thing, they are cheap for a reason. However 3 latency on DDR2 at 667 - how bad can they be? I have read alot of good reviews for their later ddr series all over the net. My wallet is the restricting factor here, and the alternative would be Corsair Value with high latency. And the C19 chipset seems to benifit from low latency like the nf4 does. If it wasnt for BF2 Id get 1gb of better rams. These almost have to do. B(

Thanks for the input.

Besides the colour is their any benifit of the SPCR version of p180 (except that black pc's are faster) - a shop in Sweden has started importing them for $50 more.

stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:13 am

Looks like a good setup except you didn't list any optical drives. I don't have much in recommendations as far as that goes, but just make sure you include that in your list of things to buy.

I can vouch for the VF700Cu, since I have one. My temps range from 49ºC (5V, idle) to 60ºC (12V, under load) on a 6600GT. The fan is hooked up to a header on my mobo, and controlled as a function of CPU temperatures.

Your rig plus a second graphics card in the future could be handled with a Seasonic 430W S12. You don't need 500W, but you should be worried about cable lengths in the P180. From what I've read on SPCR, some people have issues with their motherboard power cables not being long enough to reach from the PSU to the conectors on the mobo.

I haven't had much experience with Geil, but if you want good RAM stick with Corsair, Mushkin, OCZ, etc. They're usually good. My experience with pQi is also positive, but I don't think they're in the same class as Corsair and the others. I have pQi right now because it was cheap and has nice looking heatspreaders. If that's what you want, look into pQi, or you could stick to the more trusted stuff.

noac · Post by **noac** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:34 am

stromgald wrote:Looks like a good setup except you didn't list any optical drives. I don't have much in recommendations as far as that goes, but just make sure you include that in your list of things to buy.

It will be either a cheap NEC or a Sony. All edit my post. I dont use the optical drive for other than installing and burning - so I don't spending more money on this part wont be likely.

stromgald wrote: I can vouch for the VF700Cu, since I have one. My temps range from 49ºC (5V, idle) to 60ºC (12V, under load) on a 6600GT. The fan is hooked up to a header on my mobo, and controlled as a function of CPU temperatures.

Im thinking VF700Cu if I go P180. AC Silencer 5 Rev 3 if I choose p150.

stromgald wrote: Your rig plus a second graphics card in the future could be handled with a Seasonic 430W S12. You don't need 500W, but you should be worried about cable lengths in the P180. From what I've read on SPCR, some people have issues with their motherboard power cables not being long enough to reach from the PSU to the conectors on the mobo.

Very true, even though I spend alot of time on this forum I get suck in to the must have 1 000 000 W PSU mind of the manufactors. However, the S12-430 isnt a option since it lacks pci-e connector(s). Using four molex connectors to run SLI will leave me short, cable wise.

Yes Im aware of the extension need for most PSU with many Mobos. For me it will be an extension on the aux 12v. This is another reason for why Im leaning to the p150.

stromgald wrote: I haven't had much experience with Geil, but if you want good RAM stick with Corsair, Mushkin, OCZ, etc. They're usually good. My experience with pQi is also positive, but I don't think they're in the same class as Corsair and the others. I have pQi right now because it was cheap and has nice looking heatspreaders. If that's what you want, look into pQi, or you could stick to the more trusted stuff.

The option I have, since pQi isnt available from where I am and I have a budget to consider, is the Corsair Value 5300 CL 5. This will cost me more and I want the lower latancy. What is the worst than can happen with the other mems? really? Im asking, not retoric.

stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:13 am

Well, the worse case senario would be system instability, incompatibility with the motherboard at the advertised speeds, etc. But, I doubt that would happen with Geil unless you overclocked or something.

I always pictured Corsair, OCZ, and Mushkin as the more stable, higher quality RAM. Corsair is the biggest of the three, OCZ is more focused on high-end systems, and Mushkin is more budget. What I would consider second tier would be pQi, Patriot (PDP), Crucial, Geil, and Buffalo. The bottom of the barrel would be the stuff I wouldn't be able to think of off the top of my head but are listed at Newegg: Wintec, Viking, TwinMOS, Elixir, A-DATA. PNY and Kingston are also two very large manufacturers, but I prefer Corsair's offerings to theirs and haven't seen many reviews on PNY.

With that being said, take this with a heaping of salt since these are just my impressions from reading articles on various sites and I'm probably incorrect in some areas. Honestly, if Geil had the best performance/price I'd buy it over Corsair.

Mar. · Post by **Mar.** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:10 am

stromgald wrote:Well, the worse case senario would be system instability, incompatibility with the motherboard at the advertised speeds, etc. But, I doubt that would happen with Geil unless you overclocked or something.

I always pictured Corsair, OCZ, and Mushkin as the more stable, higher quality RAM. Corsair is the biggest of the three, OCZ is more focused on high-end systems, and Mushkin is more budget. What I would consider second tier would be pQi, Patriot (PDP), Crucial, Geil, and Buffalo. The bottom of the barrel would be the stuff I wouldn't be able to think of off the top of my head but are listed at Newegg: Wintec, Viking, TwinMOS, Elixir, A-DATA. PNY and Kingston are also two very large manufacturers, but I prefer Corsair's offerings to theirs and haven't seen many reviews on PNY.

With that being said, take this with a heaping of salt since these are just my impressions from reading articles on various sites and I'm probably incorrect in some areas. Honestly, if Geil had the best performance/price I'd buy it over Corsair.

I can't stand Geil RAM. They set the timings in SPD way too tight... It causes all sorts of problems. Even getting past that though, it's also not the most stable memory I've ever used.

I'd like to say that maybe the sticks I used just happened to be bad ones, but after swapping out for a pair from the same manufacturer, and still having crashes, and then swapping out for some Corsair _value_ memory and having no trouble at all, that's pretty unlikely. And yeah, I tried all sorts of timings with all three sets.

noac · Post by **noac** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:02 am

Mar. wrote:
stromgald wrote:Well, the worse case senario would be system instability, incompatibility with the motherboard at the advertised speeds, etc. But, I doubt that would happen with Geil unless you overclocked or something.

I always pictured Corsair, OCZ, and Mushkin as the more stable, higher quality RAM. Corsair is the biggest of the three, OCZ is more focused on high-end systems, and Mushkin is more budget. What I would consider second tier would be pQi, Patriot (PDP), Crucial, Geil, and Buffalo. The bottom of the barrel would be the stuff I wouldn't be able to think of off the top of my head but are listed at Newegg: Wintec, Viking, TwinMOS, Elixir, A-DATA. PNY and Kingston are also two very large manufacturers, but I prefer Corsair's offerings to theirs and haven't seen many reviews on PNY.

With that being said, take this with a heaping of salt since these are just my impressions from reading articles on various sites and I'm probably incorrect in some areas. Honestly, if Geil had the best performance/price I'd buy it over Corsair.
I can't stand Geil RAM. They set the timings in SPD way too tight... It causes all sorts of problems. Even getting past that though, it's also not the most stable memory I've ever used.

I'd like to say that maybe the sticks I used just happened to be bad ones, but after swapping out for a pair from the same manufacturer, and still having crashes, and then swapping out for some Corsair _value_ memory and having no trouble at all, that's pretty unlikely. And yeah, I tried all sorts of timings with all three sets.

Which memories were you using? Doesnt sound good all the same. Damn, really got my mind set on those 3-4-4-8 ultra 667. Anyone have any pleasent experience to share about geil? - which btw means horny in german if Im not mistaken.

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:14 am

I'm sure I've read about your pending new system elsewhere and I am probably repeating myself...

Going with the P150 for the better HDD suspension will cost you higher PSU fan speed + higher CPU temps. No way you will be able to run passive in that. There goes the slightly quieter HDD advantage.

Staying w/the P180 gives you many more options to deal with the CPU heat including a quiet 120mm fan on it at 5V, which btw, turns out to be just about as quiet as no fan on it.

This is assuming no modding. If you were interested in modding...

A PSU intake duct on the P150 noise would probably keep its noise similar to a quiet PSU in the P180. But you'd still have to put a fan on the CPU HSF, no choice on that, I'd think.

It's also possible to modify the lower chamber to elsdtic-string suspend HDDs in the P180. Probably not more than 2 unless you're more creative than me...

Big Pimp Daddy · Post by **Big Pimp Daddy** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:09 pm

Hi, just thought I would point out that not everyone has bad experiences with Geil RAM. I have only bought two 512MB sticks from them, but they work fine at the stock speed and timings (200Mhz @ 2.5-3-3-6 for the "Value" stuff). Also overclocked to 225Mhz at the same timings and stock voltage, and underclocked to 166Mhz you can get the timings to 2-3-3-6. At the end of the day, if it doesn't work at the advertised speed, timings and voltage, just send it back.

noac · Post by **noac** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:10 pm

MikeC wrote:I'm sure I've read about your pending new system elsewhere and I am probably repeating myself...

Going with the P150 for the better HDD suspension will cost you higher PSU fan speed + higher CPU temps. No way you will be able to run passive in that. There goes the slightly quieter HDD advantage.

Staying w/the P180 gives you many more options to deal with the CPU heat including a quiet 120mm fan on it at 5V, which btw, turns out to be just about as quiet as no fan on it.

This is assuming no modding. If you were interested in modding...

A PSU intake duct on the P150 noise would probably keep its noise similar to a quiet PSU in the P180. But you'd still have to put a fan on the CPU HSF, no choice on that, I'd think.

It's also possible to modify the lower chamber to elsdtic-string suspend HDDs in the P180. Probably not more than 2 unless you're more creative than me...

Yes, you have helped me in another thread. I dont mean to run several threads on the same subject but the other one was in the article thread about the p150 - didnt seem right to use that one for my system build which it almost ended up as since I couldnt stop relating to my rig.

The reason for why Im even considering the p150 are several, all the mentioned reason that begin the spcr article included. The suspension insnt really the deciding factor. Money probably is, as Im sad to say, it often is for many. Other than that the P150 seems more neat and easier than the p180. I like the idea of modular PSU's and dislike the extension problem with the p180.

The P180 is the better choice, I just really liked the review on the P150. What I would have like to see on the p150 is a seperate chamber for psu and hd's in the top of the chassi, and another pci-e connector for the PSU and a working gpu airduct suited for sli.

Thanks for the reply!

noac · Post by **noac** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:13 pm

Big Pimp Daddy wrote:Hi, just thought I would point out that not everyone has bad experiences with Geil RAM. I have only bought two 512MB sticks from them, but they work fine at the stock speed and timings (200Mhz @ 2.5-3-3-6 for the "Value" stuff). Also overclocked to 225Mhz at the same timings and stock voltage, and underclocked to 166Mhz you can get the timings to 2-3-3-6. At the end of the day, if it doesn't work at the advertised speed, timings and voltage, just send it back.

Very true. Would I brake the warranty if I adjust the voltage?

Mar. · Post by **Mar.** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:02 pm

noac wrote:
Very true. Would I brake the warranty if I adjust the voltage?

Not unless you burn them up...

Anyway, my point wasn't that Geil RAM is necessarily bad, just that I had a bad experience with it. I'm sure every brand out there has had at least one customer with a bad experience.

However, I still suspect that they screwed up with the timings, since they were at 2-3-2-6-1T by SPD...

noac · Post by **noac** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:53 pm

Mar. wrote:
noac wrote:
Very true. Would I brake the warranty if I adjust the voltage?
Not unless you burn them up...

Anyway, my point wasn't that Geil RAM is necessarily bad, just that I had a bad experience with it. I'm sure every brand out there has had at least one customer with a bad experience.

However, I still suspect that they screwed up with the timings, since they were at 2-3-2-6-1T by SPD...

I think you might be right all the same. Is something is to good to be true, it most likely is. However, Im going to buy them and send them back if I can't get them running at stock timings and speed, I would be very pleased if that's all they did.

Read some concerning posts about them on german forums. They are made for c19 chipset but according to some they actually work better on non nvidia based intel chipsets. Not good for me!

Dish · Post by **Dish** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:58 am

noac wrote:a shop in Sweden has started importing them for $50 more.

Which one?
Live in sweden and I would love a black one.

ceselb · Post by **ceselb** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:35 am

Dish wrote:Live in sweden and I would love a black one.

Seconded.

hravn · Post by **hravn** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:32 am

Kylning.com has the P180 SPCR edition, but not in stock.

Link