What is the quietest PC you've ever not heard?

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:41 am

I am interested in putting together a network file server for my home network. I am considering a product like NASLite+ which should run on a 486 on up. All I need in the box is a network card, some kind of generic video card, a floppy drive, and then the only real heat source would be the hard drive (up to four). I could build it from scratch but if I could find a good quiet box to start with, that would be nice.

Anyone care to recommend a quiet box I can pick up used, cheap. The smaller the better.
Thanks.

justblair · Post by **justblair** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:43 am

The quietist network server I have not heard is infact a modified slug

It is a linksys device, the NSLU2, nicknamed the slug.

Out of the box its a standard nas controller, but those whacky linux boys have learned how to hack it...

http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article85.php

You can download a linux operating system onto its memory to make a firmware encoded linux server... After that the thing is being used for all sorts. No graphic card though, you access it via an internet browser on another machine.

Best bit is the price... bout 50 pounds sterling, then the cost of any other storage you want to add to it.

My MCP tutor is playing with one at the moment.

Oh and it comes with a 133 intel processor that can easily upped to 266 by shorting out a single resistor... Its not an overclock, the processor was slowed down by linksys

http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000790061705/

I am definately interested in this one, some of the stuff the linux peeps are up to with this thing is astounding. Sure I saw someone using a USB TV adaptor to stream TV round the house

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:29 am

The NSLU2 can only access USB drives. Last time I checked, you need to reformat the drive, and it only supports one drive (a second drive can be attached for mirroring) - you may want to check up on that. That may or may not be an issue for you.

For a silent (or near silent) roll your own solution, consider a Via EPIA MB with a brick power supply and DC-DC converter. Some of the EPIA boards (Eden?) are fanless, or you can replace the HSF on the faster machines with something big and passive.

Mini ITX MBs will fit just fine in ATX cases.

justblair · Post by **justblair** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:34 am

Do you mean straight out the box lenny, or after the things been hacked?

I haven't read the full story on the thing, but the impression I got from my tutor was that once it was hacked, it was a lot more versatile.

My tutor was perhaps getting ahead of himself though, but I definately think its worth doing a bit more research on the thing.

There is another more powerfull one kicking about that is also hackable, wish I could remember the name of it, but it was mentioned in a slug thread last time I was reading

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:45 pm

I guess you where not trying to answer my post. I don't want to buy a server.

I want to find an old PC, preferably a pentium class. Something with a quality build and very quiet. Weren't some of the old pentiums passivly cooled?

I am not terribly worried abault a fast processor. I would like a couple of PCI slots, onboard video is ok, 100-133 ATA is preferable.

Just wondered if anyone can remember an older pc that was quiet and could run 24x7 that I could put at least two hard drive into. Just so I don't have to start from scratch.

Thanks

justblair · Post by **justblair** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:12 pm

I guess you where not trying to answer my post. I don't want to buy a server.

Emm, I guess was trying to answer your post! I do apologise, I can assure you I wont try "not to answer" your posts again.. Forgive my idiocy, I guess I(and lenny) got confused by the first line that said..

I am interested in putting together a network file server for my home network

But yet again, a million apologies.

Sarcasm... Sad... A simple "thanks but that was not the route I wanted to go" would have been more polite

wisdomtooth · Post by **wisdomtooth** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:29 pm

RHendrix:

Old Pentiums are a bit hard to support... Most use stuff like EDO RAM, with limitations like 64MB RAM maximum per SIMM slot (which you have to install in pairs). I don't know if they can even handle some of the leaner modern OSes like Linux sufficiently fast enough for server purposes. Personally I wouldn't bother old Pentiums because of these uncertainties.

You might want to look into something using a Pentium-III Coppermine CPU. Those run cool and take SDRAM (which is a bit easier to find than EDO), and the BX chipset is known to be stable.

I'm running a media server using a Pentium-III 600E on a BX chipset motherboard, with 1GB memory (4 sticks of 256MB PC100 SDRAM), and I only have two fans in the system-- The CPU heatsink and the Seasonic Super Tornado 300 PSU. The ancient GeForce2 GTS AGP graphics card is passively cooled with an aftermarket Coolermaster Vivo graphics card heatsink. Two SATA 300GB HDDs on a Promise TX150 SATA controller card. The system is pretty much inaudible.

HTH.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:43 pm

rhendrix9 wrote:I want to find an old PC, preferably a pentium class. Something with a quality build and very quiet. Weren't some of the old pentiums passivly cooled?

AFAIK, not typically on purpose. But you can run them without a fan if you want. However, you may find that none of them are capable of double-pumping IDE addresses, which means no 48bit LBA support (i.e. forget about a decent sized hard drive). Of course, you could buy an IDE PCI card, but you may or may not be able to boot from it. That's fine, if you don't mind a noisy small hard drive in addition to your main hard drives.

Your best bet, really, is to go dumpster diving for a slot-1 system, like a Pentium II or Pentium III system, and roll your own computer quieting measures. Also, there are a number of places to get a cheap used slot-1 system.

You are NOT going to find an old prebuilt system which is quiet. They all have really loud fans, but the 80mm fans may be salvageable by undervolting. All of my fans are 80mm salvage jobs. I just ripped out all 80mm fans from everything I could get my hands on and compared their performances at 5volts.

Just wondered if anyone can remember an older pc that was quiet and could run 24x7 that I could put at least two hard drive into. Just so I don't have to start from scratch.

Most of my systems are mod jobs on older PCs. You will NOT run across an older PC which is remotely quite in stock form. (Well, not a PC compatable, that is. There were plenty of silent solid state 8bit computers.) But my experience is that slot-1 systems are an excellent starting points for silent systems. They require relatively little airflow even with the stock CPU heatsinks.

My usual modifications involve removing the stock CPU fan and casing, and ducting airflow from the PSU at the CPU heatsink. I modify the PSU by flipping the fan and undervolting that fan to 5v (well, not necessarily the original fan in the PSU, but whichever fan in my collection is quietest).

Oh, note that slot-1 motherboards didn't support 48bit LBA addressing in the BIOS. This typically isn't a problem with Linux, assuming the actual mobo hardware can double-pump addresses.

quikkie · Post by **quikkie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:36 am

lenny wrote:The NSLU2 can only access USB drives. Last time I checked, you need to reformat the drive, and it only supports one drive (a second drive can be attached for mirroring) - you may want to check up on that. That may or may not be an issue for you.

As a slug (the nickname for an NSLU2) owner I can verify that it is USB only, yes a reformat is necessary if you want to unsling it (see http://www.nslu2-linux.org) otherwise with the newest firmware downloadable from the linksys site it'll use NTFS/FAT32 formatted drives. The second drive is for backups (unless you unsling it - and then it's for whatever you want).

Personally, I unslung mine for the extra stuff it allowed me to do (NFS/http/ftp). The linksys firmware is good although the device is not fast at transferring data, typically you will get 2-3Mbit/s using windows filesharing.

I haven't tried clocking the slug yet (by removing a resistor) to see if the higher clock speed gives a boost to the data transfer rate.

-Quikkie

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:30 pm

justblair wrote:Emm, I guess was trying to answer your post!

Sorry, I really wasn't trying to offend!!!

It just seemed like you weren't talking about an old PC at all, but rather a network storage unit.

Please, Forgive my ignorance/mistake.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:37 pm

wisdomtooth wrote: Old Pentiums are a bit hard to support... Most use stuff like EDO RAM, with limitations like 64MB RAM maximum per SIMM slot (which you have to install in pairs).

good point, I had not considered that, although the NASLite+ product is not supposed to be memory hungary or even use the bios, so no hard disk size constraints.
I was just trying to find a "cheap" solution.

I think I'll look for an old PIII though, not much else is out there.
I thought some of the old Dells where kinda quiet, was hoping someone could speak from experience.

Thanks

justblair · Post by **justblair** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:31 pm

rhendrix9 wrote:
justblair wrote:Emm, I guess was trying to answer your post!
Sorry, I really wasn't trying to offend!!!

It just seemed like you weren't talking about an old PC at all, but rather a network storage unit.

Please, Forgive my ignorance/mistake.

No probs, I didn't mean to throw my dummy as far from the pram as I did

The point that was made about the support for larger hard drives earlier on is the biggest drawback to your idea. Linux is defo the way forward if your using legacy stuff like that, but not everyone (me especially) is confident with linux.

The slug idea was a cheapo suggestion to get you on your feet with it, but I do see that it means spending some cash. It does look as though it might serve your needs.. The drawback I guess is learning linux stuff, I cant remember a single unix command from my uni days.

The drawback, as I have been reading since is the slow transfer rates, I dont know for sure wether the resistor snip is going to cure that... An idea I had for an easy upgrade, (quickie, aimed at you) no risk would be to short the resistor out with conductive ink... I am suprised that I have not seen it suggested on my travels. Conductive ink can be erased if the results are not good. I am going to drop my tutor my pen if he has not already performed the surgery required.

If your going the pc route, what about looking out for an old laptop? Larger HD's can be added with a bit of work and an adaptor, and you get your monitor in there two... I just junked one to get its HD, got it for nothing as its battery was goosed and it was too slow for anything else. I wish I had been more carefull when I took it apart, as I ruined its ribbon connector to the screen.

quikkie · Post by **quikkie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:34 pm

no linux knowledge required to drive a nslu2 with either the linksys or unslung firmware - the web browser based gui (which still exists in unslung) will allow you to do everything you need to do. All the unslung firmware does is allow customisation of your slug by enabling you to boot off the attached harddisk and installing stuff on to the harddisk - the only caveat being that you have to let the slug format the disk (for the die hard linux types the only change from the stock firmware is to the boot block to allow it to "find" the root disk i.e. if it can't find a hard disk it will boot from the linksys firmware).

It's incredibly easy to set up, 5 minutes from taking it out of the box to starting to upload files to it. Have we mentioned that the NSLU2 is pocket sized? It's approximately the size of your hand (no exaggeration) and uses very little power (~9W + whatever the usb enclosure requires).
It'll be quieter, lower power, and cheaper than any PC based solution you care to build. FWIW I now have 250GB of network attached storage for GBP155 (from amazon) I can't build, scavenge, steal or beg a PC (with that much storage) for that price.

@ justblair I might try your suggestion of conductive ink, although I was thinking of either a sharp knife or a steady hand with my trusty soldering iron... now where did I put my pencil

-Quikkie

Steve_Y · Post by **Steve_Y** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:22 pm

An old PIII or Celeron is a good choice since many of those CPUs are cool enough to run passive and you can find them dirt cheap. If you're careful about your choice of motherboard you can find one that supports large hard disks, otherwise you're probably limited to 128Gb per drive.

Finding a prebuilt low noise PIII is quite unlikely, but they're quite easy to silence, especially Socket 370 based systems as they can use easily available Socket A coolers. Even a dirt cheap Athlon cooler makes a decent passive PIII heatsink as long as the case has decent airflow, or you could just undervolt its fan. If you're putting multiple 3.5" hard disks in it then they're going to drown out any reasonably quiet components anyway.

Where I live there are dozens of mail order companies specializing in cheap used PCs and unlike private sellers they usually offer a 6+ month warrantee. I've just seen an advert for complete 450Mhz PIII PCs for £15, plenty of speed for a file server. There are also computer recycling centres and second hand stores that can give good deals without the cost of postage. I'd be surprised if there aren't similar retailers where you live.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:10 pm

Steve_Y wrote:An old PIII or Celeron is a good choice since many of those CPUs are cool enough to run passive and you can find them dirt cheap. If you're careful about your choice of motherboard you can find one that supports large hard disks, otherwise you're probably limited to 128Gb per drive.

I recommend something based on the 815 chipset. You can probably find Dell systems with MBs using that chipset, but I don't know of any specific models.

I have an Asus CUSL2 motherboard. It supports large hard drives with a BIOS upgrade (I'm using it with a 160GB now). You need to get non DDR SDRAM for it, and contrary to what you might expect, they're not dirt cheap. Your best bet for CPU, MB and memory is probably on eBay. It even has on board graphics. No NIC, no USB 2.0 (there is USB 1.1) and no firewire. No onboard sound either, though you probably don't care about that for a file server.

I have one of the Arctic Cooling CPU HSF on my 1 GHz P3. Don't remember which model, but I bought it for less than $10. It has a temp sensor to control the fan, which only spins lazily most of the time. I've even seen it stop for a few seconds on cold winter days.