Building a new PC, would like some comments/suggestions

[snq]

Hello, first post here

Last week I decided I needed a new PC, and I want something a bit different from the one I have now.
Right now I have an X2 3800+, cpu, gpu and chipset are watercooled, in a 10 year old fulltower case. Now I'm fed up with AMD (because this system is basically not upgradable to anything worthy without buying new mainboard/cpu/ram) so I'm going for Intel this time, after about 7 years of AMD only. I'm also fed up with watercooling, I like the temps and the low noise level, but I'm not a big fan of the maintainance bit, upgrading parts, etc. It's just a bit too much hassle for my likings. Besides my system isn't quite as silent as I'd like it to be.

So during the past week I've been doing my research to see what parts would fit my needs. My requirements are a good performing and quiet PC that will mainly be used for work but also for playing a game every now and then. I work as a programmer so my cpu will be almost idle most of the time (just typing), until I hit the compile button, which is where all hell should break loose

The components I came up with are:

• Casing: P180B.
  The obvious choice for a quiet PC according to most people. I actually really want a P182 because of the better wiring options, but it won't be for sale over here until at least the end of march
• Mainboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
  I like the features and the layout.
• CPU: C2D E6600
  Best performance available for a reasonable price
• CPU cooler: Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B
  Perfect for the P180 casing I think.
• GPU: 7900GS
  My current card, and it'll do for now.
• GPU cooler: Thermalright HR-03
  I don't like stuff getting hot, and this thing seems to do a good job att cooling the GPU.
• PSU: Tagan Easycon 530W
  I already have this PSU and think it's reasonably quiet. I can change the fan in it if it turns out to be noisy.
• Disks: 2 SATA disks, a 74 GB WD Raptor for system and projects, and I need something big (500GB or more) for storage. I know Raptors are relatively noisy, but I want the performance.

There's obviously more hardware, but those are not relevant to noise and cooling so I won't bother you with that

Anyway, I was planning to replace all fans in the P180 with Nexus fans. I'll either be putting a 92mm fan on the HR-03 or a 120mm one in the floppy bay, I'm hoping the latter will be enough to cool it.
I'm planning to use the 2 upper fans for cooling the CPU and not have a fan on the Ninja itself. I'm hoping that'll do, during work it won't be a problem because the CPU will only be stressed for max a couple of minutes at a time, but I need to be able to play games every now and then as well, and I don't want the CPU to become 80 degrees while doing so.
As for the lower compartment of the casing, I hope the harddisks will be cool enough without the fan in the middle, but I'll have to test and see because there's no way to tell atm.

What I'm actually most worried about is the heat from the GPU. Ideally I'd like to see that heat disappear out of the rear without ever coming near the CPU. Perhaps some other GPU heatsink would be better suited?

I didn't set a budget for this PC, I'm going to be using it for at least 8 hours a day and I probably won't change the basic setup for a very long time, so it may cost a bit. I'll be happy to buy more expensive parts if it means the system will be more quiet because of that.

I'd love to hear your comments and suggestions!

[psiu]

The hard drives should be fine without that center fan, depending on ambient temps of course. I use some electrical tape to tape off the grill around the psu on the back of the case (to ensure all airflow through the chamber comes from the front).

Dunno about the video card though, only one I know of that do the exhaust are the Artic Cooling ones and they don't have a listing for the 7900 GS.

I would definitely recommend looking through the gallery section at various P180 setups for ideas and what to expect.

[snq]

I was more thinking of doing some ducting and making sure the heat goes out the back instead of up to the CPU. But that means I won't be able to put a fan directly on the HR-03, because air will be going in all directions.

Kind of like this except I don't want to have to open up more holes in the front so the duct will have to be shorter on the right side to give the air a chance to get to the CPU.


(from http://www.silentpcreview.com/article672-page5.html)

I guess it'll come down to experimenting once I get the stuff together, maybe the GPU temp problem won't be as bad as I expect.

[~El~Jefe~]

I would use the new Reserator II on that system from zalman. I have Reserator 1 big blue thing on mine. Might as well go the whole way and skip the fan/duct fiddling around is my suggestion.

[snq]

I would use the new Reserator II on that system from zalman. I have Reserator 1 big blue thing on mine. Might as well go the whole way and skip the fan/duct fiddling around is my suggestion.

You're not making this any easier you know... I actually had no idea there was a new Reserator. I'm going to have to think now, maybe WC isnt so bad after all... One of my problems with WC is that it fills up the complete casing right away, causing me to use all kinds of ghetto solutions in order to get enough space for all my stuff. But I guess that won't be a problem with the Reserator.

[snq]

Okay, so after doing some research on the reserator 2, I'm actually starting to like it more and more. It'll for sure be more quiet than the air cooled setup I had in mind.

Now the question is, will 1 fan at the top back and one in the floppy bay give enough airflow to cool the chipset? The mainboard looks like this and as far as I know the "caps" on the heatsinks can be removed. I'll probably replace the SB heatsink with one of those zalman ones. The lower fan should provide enough air for that and the ram on the gfx card.

[~El~Jefe~]

my reserator 1 blue tower is silent until you put your ear less than 1 foot in front of where the pump is. then you can detect that it is running. a nexus at 10 volts can be detected as being on farther away from it than that.

Now some have had noisier pumps. they tend to fail though. mine is up for 2 years nonstop. been a while with it.

Air cannot come close to watercooling in terms of protection of equipment. It is instanteous transfer of heat. overall temps are noticably higher though. There is a balance point for the temperatures that is higher than air cooling in a low powered setup or setup that is idling. It was something to get used to, seeing those higher temps. However, when I play BF 2142 with all settings on max and my resolution at 1152 x 864 (yes, odd setting but its nice) my system only increases about 2-3 degrees celsius from idle.

the reserator 2 looks like it has a faster heat dissipation system in it. Also the sinks for the cpu and gpu are dangerden styled unlike mine. I think it is going for a higher flowrate than what I currently own.

300 dollars makes it a STEAL. no other DIY watercooling setup will run you that little and be silent/quiet.

IF this dies I go Res2. the reserator 1 plus is crappier except for its quick connection tubes. the cpu heatsink on the res 1 Plus edition is dinky and not as good as the huge one I have on res 1 original. Still, both pale in comparison to the Res2 design.

I recommend making permanent holes in the back of the case that are grommeted like some are selling nowadays vs using the pci slot. It kills a slot, which sux. I have it that way but I need to fix things.... its really complicated to fix things once they are built so a grommeted double hole in the rear wall of the case is a great idea. (saw that feature in the CES 2007 coverage that spcr did this year)

I would still have 1 external fan on the system blowing out. You need some airflow for the non heatsinked parts. I wouldnt cool the chipset though. I am not into doing that. I believe in putting huge, tall heatsinks on them and using the general case flow to cool them. It adds to the total heat of the system and is unnecessary/annoying step in the loop for 90% of the systems I have encountered. You will need more chipset heatsink ability I feel if you go water cooling as the airflow/turbulence of the case is greatly diminished. I have 1 fan and a passive 350 phantom antec psu. I installed a zalman big blue Don King hs on the chipset.

the main northbridge looks massively cooled on this. Yes I would use a zalman on the lower one. 2 fans max in a case like this. my x1900 allinwonder doesnt have air blowing on the ram heatsinks and doesnt need it. ddr3 i believe is even more efficient and better built and so would need it even less is my guess. a nice case like my antec slk3000 (closed door on side forget which submodel it is) has adequate frontal openings where the air in the case is moving at a decent rate for a gaming situation. The zalman's come with aluminum ram sinks that are open in fins adapted to a passive flow system. I thought of using the big copper ones I have seen but the zalman ones work well enough for free and maybe better in their open fin design.
peace and message me if you want to chat about this online/aim.

-jefe

[belkincp]

dont change ur cpu and motherboard and al lthat good stuff.....your socket 939 has great life to it! and its definitly upgradable to powerful cpus! if you were smart..jsut buy the best video card you can get ur hands on and add a gig of more ram and that shoudl keep u godo for 3 more years!!!

[snq]

dont change ur cpu and motherboard and al lthat good stuff.....your socket 939 has great life to it! and its definitly upgradable to powerful cpus! if you were smart..jsut buy the best video card you can get ur hands on and add a gig of more ram and that shoudl keep u godo for 3 more years!!!

The fastest thing I can put on a S939 board is an FX60 which is slower than an E6400 at stock speed but costs twice as much, so no thanks. I'm not really up to date on the latest hardware developments but the FX60 has been around for a long time and nothing faster has shown up for S939 in the stores here so I doubt anything new will come.
Also CPU speed is more important to me than GPU speed because I don't play a lot of games and mainly use the PC for work, so upgrading the GPU and not the CPU wouldn't make much sense. I usually upgrade the CPU and/or gfx card about once a year and buying a new S939 CPU would mean I'd be shooting myself in the foot because the system would be even less upgradable next year.
I'm not sure where you get the gig of memory idea from, because you have no idea how much I have in my current system.

[pyogenes]

I'll probably replace the SB heatsink with one of those zalman ones. The lower fan should provide enough air for that and the ram on the gfx card.

No need to replace the SB heatsink with a zalman one. Just replace the TIM and remove the cover and you'll be in good shape. The MB temp reading is for the SB chipset and Asus states the normal operating temp is 40-65C so just keep an eye on that for the first couple days if you are paranoid. Mine hovers around 42C on a heavily overclocked system.

If you aren't overclocking, the airflow from just one of the top/back exhaust fans should be sufficient to cool the NB.

[snq]

El Jefe, thanks for all your information, that must've taken a while to type

Right now I'm using a Danger Den WC kit which cost me almost $500 and it's not as silent as I'd like, and makes the inside of my case a mess. Here's an old pic of my setup, I've got a new gfx card now (had to move the pump for that because it was a lot longer than this 6600GT) and a new PSU. Other than that I think everything is the same. This system has 4 fans: a 120mm on the radiator and on the back that are always on 7V except while gaming, an ancient 92mm fan at 5V in front of the disks, and another 120mm in the PSU (instead of 2 80mm in the PSU on the pic, that made a big difference).


Temps might be a bit higher with a Reserator setup but I'm pretty sure it'll be more quiet. And I'm sure it'll be less of a hassle to deal with than this setup. It took me several hours to change the gfx card, I had to empty the whole system to be able to move the pump a bit closer to the radiator.
And I'm for sure going to skip watercooling the chipset, because as you say it's quite annoying, and a bit unnecessary.

What about the Reserator 1 v2 vs Reserator 2? It comes with the same blocks I think, but it's a bit easier space-wise (my office is pretty full of stuff). I do like the alarm function on the R2 tho, and I haven't seen anyone mention that function for the 1 v2. I was looking for a side by side performance and feature comparison, but couldn't find anything.

[snq]

I'll probably replace the SB heatsink with one of those zalman ones. The lower fan should provide enough air for that and the ram on the gfx card.

No need to replace the SB heatsink with a zalman one. Just replace the TIM and remove the cover and you'll be in good shape. The MB temp reading is for the SB chipset and Asus states the normal operating temp is 40-65C so just keep an eye on that for the first couple days if you are paranoid. Mine hovers around 42C on a heavily overclocked system.

If you aren't overclocking, the airflow from just one of the top/back exhaust fans should be sufficient to cool the NB.

I'm always sceptical about temps I do want to do a bit of overclocking (I'll hardly be able to withstand it) but nothing extreme. I have a spare zalman heatsink laying around somewhere and if I'm going to replace the TIM anyway, I might as well replace the whole heatsink while I'm at it. But we'll see

[ronrem]

Take a good look at the Gigabyte G 965P-Dq6-LGA775. While you perhaps can't buy from New Egg.Com-do read over the many user reviews. The AMD equivalent of this would be my perfect Mobo even though SLI is irrelevant.

A GREAT heatpipe cooling setup,Quad bios and great ways to have a current bios at no risk, solid capacitors for stability-durability...state of the art everything.

A review says he's got a 6600 running at 3.4ghz aircool. You won't want that extreme,but it's nice to know it's rock stable at that.

See if there's a source for a I Star Nitro case in Sweden or nearby. Bigger,tougher than the Antec at less money but you do some mods to really silence it.

[ronrem]

I'd stick with the Ninja.

It sounds like you are at the computer a lot-but it's really under load maybe 10%. There's a lot of ways to reduce fan rpm automatic or manual,or some of each. If you don't OC or have a way to go into OC mode when needed,then you can use the speedstep,let the chip throttle back to the demands and have a very quiet setup 80-90% of the time,and tolerably quiet when you have to Power away.

While the Reserator may be quieter the 10-20% when you are heavy load...it won't be quieter the rest of the time.

[snq]

Take a good look at the Gigabyte G 965P-Dq6-LGA775. While you perhaps can't buy from New Egg.Com-do read over the many user reviews. The AMD equivalent of this would be my perfect Mobo even though SLI is irrelevant.

A GREAT heatpipe cooling setup,Quad bios and great ways to have a current bios at no risk, solid capacitors for stability-durability...state of the art everything.

A review says he's got a 6600 running at 3.4ghz aircool. You won't want that extreme,but it's nice to know it's rock stable at that.

See if there's a source for a I Star Nitro case in Sweden or nearby. Bigger,tougher than the Antec at less money but you do some mods to really silence it.

I actually looked at the 965P-DQ6 board first. But it moved to the 2nd place as soon as I saw the P5W DH Deluxe, altho I don't remember exactly why right now. It's a bit more expensive than the P5W DH and I'm not sure about the cooling plate under the mainboard, I'm guessing that'll have to go if I am going to install a waterblock?

I can't find any stores over here that have this Nitro case, but I really like the P180s looks and it should be more than big enough if I don't have to stuff it with radiators and pumps

Edit: Turned out the P5W DH Deluxe wasn't cheaper at all, the price I got was for a demo model with some stuff missing.

[snq]

Hmm, I just thought of something. Because of the layout of the P180 case the CPU sits a lot higher than in regular cases. The top is about 48 cm / 19'' from the floor according to my calculations. Now the Reserator 2 is only 36.9 cm high so that's probably not going to work very well because the CPU block will become the highest point in the loop?
The Reserator 1 V2 is 59.2 cm high so it shouldn't be an issue with that.

I'm not sure if I'm getting this right.. On the specs page it says "Maximum Lift: 1m". Now what do they mean with that? That the resevoir can be max 1m higher than the PC it's cooling, or the other way around?

Of course I could put the reserator on top of something else to bring it to the correct height, but that'd be a bit of a hassle really.

[~El~Jefe~]

prop up the Reserator 2.

dont get the 1 v.2

it is shown that the cpu temps are like 1-2 degrees C more on it. The big blue one that has no quick connects is what I use for a 4200 amd 939 dual core and a x1900 allinwonder for perfect 24/7 running and day long gaming.

the res2 version seems to be even more efficient. I mean the res1 v2 isnt bad at all, I just want for you to get the latest and the greatest. I dont know if my res1 can deal with a 8800 GT card or a new ati r600. Up for grabs for that one. I have no idea what the capacity is for this thing.

[snq]

I heard elsewhere that the height difference doesn't matter so I'll be going for the reserator 2. It should be able to cool this stuff just fine according to what I've read. And if I some day get a hotter gfx card I figure I can just add a radiator with a fan that kicks in when things get hot, and perhaps another pump if needed.

I'll probably be ordering all the stuff beginning of next week. This system is going to cost me about $3.5k all together but that includes a 24'' screen which I've been looking forward to for ages

I spent a couple of hours yesterday trying to get my current setup to be a bit more quiet (it's on 24/7 and it's in the bedroom).. Replaced a ticking papst fan with another papst fan that didn't tick, added some soft padding around the harddrives, the radiator with fan and the pump. And I lowered the rpm of one fan to about 600 rpm, and put the pump on its lowest setting. It did become a bit more quiet, but something is still resonating and I have no idea what. It's absolutely not as quiet as I'd like so I'm really looking forward to see how quiet this new setup will be

[~El~Jefe~]

well, the reserator 2 has more capacity. I think that even my setup could accomodate one of the 8800 gt's, like the not overclocked versions.

Sounds like an intense system

As for the coolant, you can use zalman's or you can use poland spring steam distilled water and like 5-8% at most Water Wetter. I have 2 years of testing in this setup that says that water wetter pimp's ho's. it is ranked on a lot for reasons I have no idea why. my system's fluid is crystal clear and odor free. (i patched up the blow hole after it got to a warm temperature). I know that water is the best coolant and water wetter allowed me to get the maximum level of water without hurting the aluminum. I know that the more water you have, the much easier it is for the system to deal with hotter components. I have no idea what the zalman stuff is actually. I wish I knew the % of water in their blue stuff. When I built my rig, zalman had no coolant to speak about. This caused a lot of problems and destroyed some of the folks' rigs with corrosion and pump failure. My pump is still silent. It must be a glory pump but also the water wetter really makes the water flow nicely and must add some sort of lubrication.

[~El~Jefe~]

I just checked out a review of a 7900 gtx and a intel pressler core.

that core is the biggest heap of crap on the planet and awesome to test cooling systems with

well, it was running so cool, it was amazing.

you could easily get a 8800GT to run with any C2Duo chip on a Reserator2.

ALSO: their coolant additive is only 250ml. I would stick with their own brand as that amount of coolant leaves lots of room for pure water.

plus its nice and blue versus light pink

[snq]

Do you happen to have a link to that review? Would be interesting to read

The pink stuff is Zerex Super Racing Coolant that I got from DD, it was supposed to be _the_ shit, but if I had known it was pink I would've gone for something else Luckily I don't have a windowed case so I decided to live with it. Zalmans blue fluid is most definitely going to look a lot better

It's funny that you should mention Poland Spring.. We don't have that over here (I use regular distilled water / battery fluid). Anyway I got a 2 month job in Puerto Rico back in 2004 and had to switch planes at Newark airport on the way home, and I bought a half liter bottle of Poland Spring there. The bottle it comes in is different from the ones we have over here in Europe, the bottle itself is easier to squeeze and the big cap makes it faster to fill upp. I liked it so much I've been using that same bottle until a couple of months ago when I managed to drop it cap-down on a concrete floor, and the cap broke. It probably had the world record for amount of times refilled for any Poland Spring bottle, I must've refilled it 100s of times It was truly a sad day when it broke!


Btw the first parts are ordered!
I'm ordering from 2 or 3 different stores, the price difference can be pretty big between them. Last night I came across a store that had amazingly cheap Nexus fans.. About $7 for the 120mm, regular price in ALL other stores over here is $17.. And $3.50 for the 80mm. So I ordered 4 of each (won't be using all, but it's good to have some spares especially for this price) as well as a bunch of fan cable extenders, some 7V and 5V resistor cables, and some rubber fan-attach-thingies.
While I was there I noticed they also had the P5W DH about $40 cheaper than my regular store, so I ordered that as well. No turning back now!
I just hope these fans are really the super quiet ones, the specs and pics matched but I'm not sure what to expect for this price.

[snq]

All parts ordered now, except for the screen because I can't make up my mind. I may want a 30'' but I don't know, it might be too big. I'm gonna make a mock-up screen tomorrow and see what I think.

Anyway, final parts list:
1x Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 4MB FSB1066 Boxed
2x Crucial DDR2 BallistiX PC6400 1024MB CL4,2.1V, 128Megx64, 240pin, 800mhz, E.P.P
1x Antec Case Perfomance One P180B Black
1x Western Digital Raptor 150GB SATA 16MB 10000RPM
1x Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM
1x Hiyatek Bay Panel 5.25" black USB 2.0, cardreader, fancontroller, eSATA, sound, etc.
1x Samsung DVD burner SH-S183A SATA Black OEM
1x Zalman Reserator 2

And a bunch of cables, extenders, and what not Everything should be here beginning of next week, I'll post pics in the gallery forum!

[snq]

The first couple of things arrived today The casing, mainboard, fans, CPU and the fans.
The rest of the stuff should come in a couple of days.

I spent some time taking apart the P180 and took a good look at it from every angle in order to figure out how I'm going to do the wiring. My first impression was that it feels like a very well built case. Probably not the best choice for wiring freaks but all that should be solved with the P182 (which probably won't be available here for another couple of months ). One annoying thing was that the right side panel was slightly bent, making it extremely hard to get it back in place. Also I'd have loved it if the cables for the front panel stuff were black, but that's minor details
Other than that I couldn't find anything wrong with it

Also I decided to go with the 30'' screen. They are on sale right now making them only a couple 100 $ more expensive than a 24''. Guess if I feel screwed for being European.. The screen (Dell 3007WFP-HC) costs $1200 in the US, and over here it costs $2000, and that's after a $650 discount Not that I can do anything about it, so I ordered it anyway..