planning a silent workstation

[Konata Izumi]

A silent workstation for music production. Here's the complete planned system.

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Chassis            : Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 
4x Fans            : Noctua NF-S12-800              
Fan Control        : Scythe Kaze Master 5.25  
Psu                : Seasonic S12 Eps 600W          
Motherboard        : SUPERMICRO MBD-X7DWA-N         
2x Cpu             : Intel Xeon E5420 2500 mhz (80w)
2x Cpu cooler      : Xigmatek HDT-SD964                                 
Memory             : Kingston (4x2gb) ECC 800 
Graphics (pci16)   : Matrox P690 (10-20w)             
Soundcard (pci)    : Motu Core 424            
2x Hd              : WD Scorpio 120gb 2.5 Sata      
2x Hd mount        : Sunbeam silencer         
2x Screens         : BenQ G2400WA          
Dvd                : Asus DVDRW 16X SATA    
Mouse              : Kensington Expert mouse  
Keyboard           : bZerk Blank Keyboard    

1) Will the motherboard be able to support two heavy cpu coolers like the ones posted above?

2) I was thinking i would have the fans running at 300-400 rpm. Will four fans running at that speed make a lot of noise?

[solved] 3) On the supermicro site they recommend using a 500/600w psu with that motherboard. But i cant imagine this system pulling that much power no matter what. Especially considering the Gpu only needs about 10-20W. Will i be fine with a 430W Psu?

Edit 1: Changed Psu from 430W to 600W

[ame]

This is indeed a powerful machine. I dont think you will need more than 430w if its 80+. But it will be running at its higher range so fan speed might be higher than say in a Corsair 520HX.

I typically can't hear anything under 600-500 rpm unless I put it close to my ear.

About you'r HDs 2.5s are not recommended for audio recording. I have 2*WD AAKS in my DAW and they are very quiet and work flawlessly when recording. They are mounted in standard antec silicon grom+tray.

What DAW do you plan on using? (im guessing by the spect its going to be packed with VSTIs.. )

For the coolers I chose the TR Ultima 90 as it has the absolute best weight/preformance ratio. Maybe you should check it out

[Konata Izumi]

This is indeed a powerful machine. I dont think you will need more than 430w if its 80+. But it will be running at its higher range so fan speed might be higher than say in a Corsair 520HX.

I didn't think of that. I switched the 430W for a 600W so i get some headroom and a quieter system. Thanks for the headsup.

I typically can't hear anything under 600-500 rpm unless I put it close to my ear.

Very good. The less noise this computer makes the better. It's going to be sitting in the same room i'm mixing in so it would be bad if it was too noisy.

About you'r HDs 2.5s are not recommended for audio recording. I have 2*WD AAKS in my DAW and they are very quiet and work flawlessly when recording. They are mounted in standard antec silicon grom+tray.

Really? The 2.5 WD Scorpio is on the recommended Hd list on this site and has been reviewed: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article630-page1.html
"The Scorpio joins notebook drives from Samsung (MP0402H) and Seagate (5400.2 & 5400.3) as one of the quietest drives that money can buy."

What DAW do you plan on using? (im guessing by the spect its going to be packed with VSTIs.. )

Sonar! Its audio engine was built for multi core computing from the ground up. Sonar wont waste any of the power that this system will offer. I also like the customizable ui, the z3ta synth and i can live with the rest of the features. : - P

For the coolers I chose the TR Ultima 90 as it has the absolute best weight/preformance ratio. Maybe you should check it out.

I'll look into it. If it weighs less i will probably end up using that instead. I'm kinda worried that the dual socket motherboard wont be able to hold all the weight from the heatsinks (even though the heatsinks are under the recommended max, if you count them induvidually). I just dont know.

Thanks for your reply. ^_^

[ame]

"The Scorpio joins notebook drives from Samsung (MP0402H) and Seagate (5400.2 & 5400.3) as one of the quietest drives that money can buy."

Its the 5400 that is the problem typically. Not saying it wont work just that DAWs like 7200s. Im sure they are quiet but audio streaming preformance is more important IMO especailly if you have many tracks.

HD noise is low level in its nature and probably wouldn't bother you when mixing. Its in recording that it might be an issue especially if they are not mounted properly and their sound is enhanced by the case, and whan using a very sensitive mic/preamp.

Not wanting to spoil this grand plan , but have you considered the Q9450? its a quad but a real killer. You will be extremely hard pressed trying to reach the limit on it using Sonar. With cheaper MOBOs, cheaper yet faseter RAM (buffered RAM used by XEONs is slower), more money can go into a better case, fans, cooling... and no worries with a dual socket CPU cooling... plus lower power consumption typicall means quieter system.

[Konata Izumi]

I could probably get by with a quad like you say, but where's the fun in having an ordinary computer?

I dont think i will have any problems maxing out a quad or octa core system though. I make drum and bass. In that genre you use a lot of processing plugins on your sounds to get it sounding right.

What most people do is they work with midi tracks triggering synths / samplers live going through an effect chain. At this point you can easily and freely change the midi data (notes) and the sound (on the synth/effects). This is the most flexible way to work.

But sooner or later they will hit the cpu limit, especially if you use some of the more power hungry and good sounding plugins. At that point you have to start bouncing tracks down to audio from midi. This frees up the processing power but after you've done it a few times, you can't really change the notes any more and you are stuck with whatever you started with.

So if you have an 8 core system, you will have to do a lot less bouncing which means you will have more flexibility when you write music.

I'm afraid that even though what you are saying is perfectly reasonable, i will unreasonably stick with my grand plan of building an octa core system. Thanks for trying to set me straight though. xD

About the Hd: Can you tell me how Hd performance affects sequencing / daw use? What are the differences between running a 5400 hd and a 7200? How would a SSD hd perform? (not that im crazy/rich enough to buy one)

About memory: Again, can you tell me how memory performance affects sequencing / daw use? Do i need faster memory than DDR2 800?

Edit: Clarified it a bit.

[SilentBen]

I have a WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA drive, the only thing I hear is an occasional seek once programs are loaded. I mounted it in a Antec P182 with the stock rubber grommets. Performance is comparable to my old 74g Raptors.

Check out the Silent Storage forms for loads of information!

[kittle]

Im looking at a simmilar system in my future as well.

everything looks good so far (eatx MB in eatx case).
but make sure the memory you picked will work. most of the supermicro boards want FB-DIMM memory. Check to make sure what your buying will work. Fully Buffered memory is usually quite a bit more expensive.


The other thing I see is you have 800mhz memory speed but the cpu you picked only supports a FSB of 1333 not 1600. So unless your planning on running your 800mhz memory at 667mhz.. one of the 2 should be changed.

[Konata Izumi]

I have a WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA drive, the only thing I hear is an occasional seek once programs are loaded. I mounted it in a Antec P182 with the stock rubber grommets. Performance is comparable to my old 74g Raptors.

Check out the Silent Storage forms for loads of information!

Thanks. Found some really interesting information about network booting.
It would be ideal to boot from a pair of quick hds in another computer over gb ethernet.

Im looking at a simmilar system in my future as well.

everything looks good so far (eatx MB in eatx case).
but make sure the memory you picked will work. most of the supermicro boards want FB-DIMM memory. Check to make sure what your buying will work. Fully Buffered memory is usually quite a bit more expensive.


The other thing I see is you have 800mhz memory speed but the cpu you picked only supports a FSB of 1333 not 1600. So unless your planning on running your 800mhz memory at 667mhz.. one of the 2 should be changed.

Ouch, did not know that. And there is no way i can afford the 1600mhz fsb xeons. 667 ddr2 memory will probably be too slow for handling large projects (i can imagine having to wait a lot for the memory to load plugins, samples, etc).

I guess you were right, ame. The desktop platform seems to be more suitable for my workstation considering i can get 3/4 of the performance of my current planned setup.

I kinda wish i hadn't been so confident in my last post where i said that i didn't want a quad core. This makes me look rather silly.

Back to the old drawing board i guess.

Thanks for all the help ame, SilentBen, kittle. Appreciate it. ^_^

[ame]

hey Konata,

I dont know what you have been using until now but I can tell you about my experiance.
I had a P4 system and that would run about 5 or 6 synth plugins at a time puls reason.
Now on my current Q6600 I have sessions with 20 synths and preformance is still in its 30% range. I personally don't see how I am gonna ever hit the top on this. Regardless I allways record to audio before I mix. Then I make the track inactive and hide it so that if I really
want to change it I can allways go back.

I understand your dilema. I acctally appreciated you saying that you don't want an ordinary system .
But it is my experince that being on the bleeding edge of technology typically means you are paying 100% more for a system that may be 20-25% more powerful yet you are often paying in stability and compatability. Bleeding edge is often a bloody mess

If you are tring to build an extraordinary system thak a look at the forums gallery section. people have done some unusual things to keep their system quiet and efficient yet you could still see some porwer beasts in there.

If I where you I would build somthing based on X48/Q9450/1066 RAM combination. With at least one 7200 HD for audio sessions. I would also check out the Sonar forums for compatability and user experince.

Keep us posted

[Konata Izumi]

hi ame,

My current system is an old cheap budget machine (intel 4300 1.8 ghz dual core processor, 667 ddr 2 memory, etc). I load one sampler in Sonar and cpu use jumps up to 30% and stays there. Maybe i was overcompensating for something when i planned the 8 core workstation. : - P

It's true what you say about bleeding egde. The intel extreme processors are a very good example of that. They are extremely (pun) expensive compared to the normal intel processors and they are not all that much better.

You are spot on when you say that i want to build an extraordinary system. Partly because of the challenge that it presents but mostly for the fun of it. Luckily there are other ways to make an extraordinary computer than buying the most expensive hardware.

For instance, i could try to make a discless computer (boots on a hd in a server over gb lan). This should be possible using PxE. 1000 mbp/s should be plenty of bandwith for even a fast hd (Wd velociraptor looks nice), I dont think i would have problems with latency either, not over a wired network.

Advantages are a very quiet computer, good hd performance, easy to back up files (all hd's in one system).

The downside is probably the difficulty of setting up the linux server and difficulty in getting it to work. I don't really know much about this, i just started reading up on it yesterday and so far i haven't really found much info. All i know is that PxE is a standard that is implemented in most NIC's and that it enables booting over network.

I'm going to recycle my current system for the server. Should be plenty of power for a simple boot / file server and it has room for loads of Hd's.

As for platform, for now i think I'm gonna go with the Intel desktop platform as you suggested. Seems to have the best performance on both processors and memory. And if it turns out that i need more power i can always upgrade to a nehalem system later on.

Q9450 seems to be the best value purchase. I can always overclock it if there should be a need for more power. But why not go for 1600 mhz memory when it's affordable anyway? Isn't there that much performance to gain?

Now i have to go find out which x38/x48 motherboards support ethernet booting and which who do not. I'll have to check the online manuals for that because most of the time it's not even mentioned in reviews. I'm also going to read reviews generally about the x38/x48 boards just to get an idea of what kind of features to expect.

Meanwhile, if you want to, you can have a look at my planned media pc. It's much cheaper and uses less power. It's probably quick enough to play back hd video files though?

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Chassis          : Antec NSK1480
Fans             : 2x Noctua 8cm
Psu              : NorthQ passive 300W
Motherboard      : Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H 
Cpu              : Amd X2 4850e 
Cpu cooler       : Scythe Shuriken
Memory           : OCZ 2x512MB 800mhz
Soundcard        : Esi Julia              
Dvd              : Asus DVDRW 16X SATA   

(The hd is going to be in the server and will be booted over the network.)

[kittle]

Sorry to hear you decided to abandon the 8 core system.

One thing I have found with "dual socket" systems -- of which I own 2.
They last a LONG LONG time. So while you may pay 50% or 100% more than the current generation desktop system, you wont need to upgrade for a long time to come.

I have an old supermicro dual cpu 1.8ghz xeon system. Its 7years old and still runs just fine. If not for the socket 604 xeon cpus and the RDRAM which you cant get anymore -- I would have upgraded it and pushed off getting my current system. the downside to that is the thing wont break to give me a valid excuse to upgrade

My Current box is a dual cpu AMD board - 2x Opteron 246. Runs just fine despite the fact is 3yrs old. Unlike the supermicro board, this one has had a few issues but after several rounds of RMA, its running much better.


but as for cheap or inexepensive... both systems cost a pretty penny (~ $3500 USD). but if you average the cost of things over the 3 years and 7 years, it quickly becomes cheap.

However if you cant afford the initial cash outlay, then your going down the right track with a more conventional system.

[ame]

I don't really know alot about networking. The idia of working over lan sounds interesting yet I would recommend that you check the Sonar forums to see if its supported for work/recording. I haven't heared of anyone in audio using it this way so I tend to be suspicious.

I can tell you that HDs can be quiet. Either suspended or in Scythe QuietDrive enclosure or both will give quiet operation. especailly if you get a drive that is Hydrodynamic bearing like AAKS sieries or some samsung drives.

I have 2 PCs in the room where I mix. one is allways on (see my sig) and has the HDs in a standard Antec tray. another is a rackmount for midi instrumets (rarely used nowadays) with HD in Quiet drive. Both are too quiet to be heard from my mixing position. I have to get down on my knees withing 20 cm to notice anything (and its the exaust fan not the HDs)

Plus you have to consider you are going to be mixing in at least 70 DBa. probably 80-85 with the speakers directed at your ears
Even if the PC isnt completly silent (it never is), Does the added 1-3 db over the noise floor of the room matter?

10 db means its twice as loud, so 80 db monitoring over 30 db roomtone means the mix is essencially 32 times louder than the room. (2^5). If your room tone is 25 db monitoring will be about 48 times louder. I dont think your mix will be affected by it. The thing to keep in mind is that the sound from the PC shouldn't be tonal or focused on a specific freq but rather a wide band low whoosh.

Sound to me like you are quite the audiophile so your probably into all this allready . hope this helps you make some good choices

[Konata Izumi]

Sorry to hear you decided to abandon the 8 core system.

One thing I have found with "dual socket" systems -- of which I own 2.
They last a LONG LONG time. So while you may pay 50% or 100% more than the current generation desktop system, you wont need to upgrade for a long time to come.

I have an old supermicro dual cpu 1.8ghz xeon system. Its 7years old and still runs just fine. If not for the socket 604 xeon cpus and the RDRAM which you cant get anymore -- I would have upgraded it and pushed off getting my current system. the downside to that is the thing wont break to give me a valid excuse to upgrade

My Current box is a dual cpu AMD board - 2x Opteron 246. Runs just fine despite the fact is 3yrs old. Unlike the supermicro board, this one has had a few issues but after several rounds of RMA, its running much better.


but as for cheap or inexepensive... both systems cost a pretty penny (~ $3500 USD). but if you average the cost of things over the 3 years and 7 years, it quickly becomes cheap.

However if you cant afford the initial cash outlay, then your going down the right track with a more conventional system.

Not saying that Intel's server platform is bad or anything. In my opinion you get the most processing power for your money if you buy a dual socket motherboard. I'm also sure they are very stable. But for my application/use, that isn't all that counts. I think memory will also affect the performance a lot. And i can get twice as fast memory on the desktop platform. I can get a cpu that's about half as good as a server system. In the long run i can afford to upgrade quicker if i buy cheaper now.

So while Intel's server platform is definitely attractive, the desktop platform just suits my needs better right now.

I don't really know alot about networking. The idia of working over lan sounds interesting yet I would recommend that you check the Sonar forums to see if its supported for work/recording. I haven't heared of anyone in audio using it this way so I tend to be suspicious.

I can tell you that HDs can be quiet. Either suspended or in Scythe QuietDrive enclosure or both will give quiet operation. especailly if you get a drive that is Hydrodynamic bearing like AAKS sieries or some samsung drives.

I have 2 PCs in the room where I mix. one is allways on (see my sig) and has the HDs in a standard Antec tray. another is a rackmount for midi instrumets (rarely used nowadays) with HD in Quiet drive. Both are too quiet to be heard from my mixing position. I have to get down on my knees withing 20 cm to notice anything (and its the exaust fan not the HDs)

Plus you have to consider you are going to be mixing in at least 70 DBa. probably 80-85 with the speakers directed at your ears
Even if the PC isnt completly silent (it never is), Does the added 1-3 db over the noise floor of the room matter?

10 db means its twice as loud, so 80 db monitoring over 30 db roomtone means the mix is essencially 32 times louder than the room. (2^5). If your room tone is 25 db monitoring will be about 48 times louder. I dont think your mix will be affected by it. The thing to keep in mind is that the sound from the PC shouldn't be tonal or focused on a specific freq but rather a wide band low whoosh.

Sound to me like you are quite the audiophile so your probably into all this allready . hope this helps you make some good choices

hey ame,

It's not limited to any application or os. PxE is a technology that is built into most network interface cards (the ethernet ports on your motherboard) and it allows you to boot over the network. It's exactly the same as having a hardrive inside the computer, just that it's inside another computer in another room. Imagine it as using an ethernet cable as a really long sata cable.

[Edit: PxE only loads an os image into another computers memory. But AoE on the other hand does what i described above, altough with some quirks. Have a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?t=24256&start=0&postdays= ... highlight= ]

That's how i think it works at least. I'm kinda new to it myself...

I'm glad to hear HDs can be quiet. The one currently in my computer is driving me mad. If the network hd thing fails then i will go for a quiet suspended drive in the workstation. =]

It's not really that i can hear it clearly when i'm playing back audio or anything. But i can hear it when i'm not playing back any audio and i often stop to think when i write. Maybe i'll change a melody, loop it a few times, and then i will stop the sequencer and just think wether or not it's any good. Sometimes that lasts for 5 seconds, other times a few minutes. During these pauses, when i can clearly hear the whine of the hardrive, i grow annoyed by it and my mood worsens, especially over time.

You're right it doesn't make a difference in the sound/mix i hear when i play back audio.

I'm fine with fan sounds though because they tend to be more of a pleasant swoosh. I don't think the fans will bother me at all even though i'm going to undervolt them just to be sure.

I'm into computers and audio but I'm not really knowledgeable about acoustics. I tried reading a bit about it but it was difficult to understand because of all the complicated math involved.

You sound like quite the audiophile yourself. What kind of music do you make?

It did help. Thanks.

[ame]

Yeh man I know what your sayin. It can drive me crazy when I'm trying to focus and some odd noise in the background keeps pounding. Like some studios I work in that have mac G5s. These can get fan rampups like nothing I ever heard. Its like a jet taking off on your right.

Right now I'm prersonall really into HipHop. But I work with other artists and composers that are into pop, Ragai and rock .
I started out as a Techno head, bangin 4 on the floor beats in the clubs, and still get that warm fealing when I listen to good electro and D&B

I just said you where and audiophill because of this

Soundcard : Esi Julia

on your media PC. that kind of stuff just comes from people who like to listen right