Can you help me with my new (silent) multi-purpose PC?

diodo · Post by **diodo** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:36 am

Hi guys!
I've just discovered this interesting forum, and i'd like to ask you an opinion about a rig i'm about to build. My priority is silence and stability, cause i need to work at the PC all the day, every day. I'm looking for a machine that can easily manage some light multitasking (lot of internet browsing, some ftp upload/download, some photoshop, p2p, etc), and which i can connect to my 37" Plasma 720p (for HD contents, movies and if it's possible MAME).
Then there is the "gaming factor": i'm a console player, but i'm interested in trying some PC games as well. Since my requests aren't high (i'm looking for a 19-20" monitor, and medium details would be nice), i'm considering the hybrid crossfire and maybe, in a second moment (if i'll keep up playing and i won't be satisfied with the performances), upgrade to a serious discreet VGA (maybe the 8800 GT).
Here's my ipotetic configuration:

CASE: Antec Solo
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
CPU: Amd Phenom 9750+ 95W 2,4 ghz
DISSI: Scythe Ninja 1100V PLUS REV. 2
RAM: Team Group Elite CL5 2x2 GB
VGA: Radeon HD3450 512MB PASSIVE COOLING (Hybrid Crossfire)
PSU: Corsair HX 520
HD: Samsung 160 GB SAMSUNG SPINPOINT S166 HD161HJ SATA II
MONITOR: Samsung 206BW

Thank you very much for any suggestion!

PS: I'm not interesting in Overclock.

FartingBob · Post by **FartingBob** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:41 am

I dont know how much more expensive that premium RAM is, but its pointless. You wont see any difference compared to brand name normal RAM of the same speed. And if you fancy gaming, the GPU will need a boost IMO. A HD3850 or 9600GT would be ideal. The 3450 is good for HTPC use, but its not a gamers card.

diodo · Post by **diodo** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 am

FartingBob wrote:I dont know how much more expensive that premium RAM is, but its pointless. You wont see any difference compared to brand name normal RAM of the same speed. And if you fancy gaming, the GPU will need a boost IMO. A HD3850 or 9600GT would be ideal. The 3450 is good for HTPC use, but its not a gamers card.

Hi Bob, thank you for the super fast reply.

About the RAM modules: they're not very expensive in my country (Italy) (about 80 EURO for 4 GB), compared to other brands, but maybe i can find somethin' cheaper. For the VGA: is the 3450 so bad, also in hybrid crossfire?

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:54 am

A single 160GB hard drive is pretty small by today's standards, especially if you'll be using it to store HD material - I'd bump it up to at least 500GB, which shouldn't cost you much more at current prices.

The rest of your setup looks pretty good, although I agree your GPU could do with upgrading for gaming purposes. I've no knowledge of how well Hybrid Crossfire works in practice, so can't really comment on that aspect - maybe it's OK for less demanding titles...

Welcome to SPCR!

diodo · Post by **diodo** » Sat May 03, 2008 12:30 pm

nick705 wrote:A single 160GB hard drive is pretty small by today's standards, especially if you'll be using it to store HD material - I'd bump it up to at least 500GB, which shouldn't cost you much more at current prices.

The rest of your setup looks pretty good, although I agree your GPU could do with upgrading for gaming purposes. I've no knowledge of how well Hybrid Crossfire works in practice, so can't really comment on that aspect - maybe it's OK for less demanding titles...

Welcome to SPCR!

Hi nick705, and thank you!

About the HD, i was oriented to that model because i read it's particularly silent and fast enough, but it's really too small, i agree. Can you suggest me the best silent 500GB HD? Thank you!

sherifone · Post by **sherifone** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:28 pm

i'd actually recommend the 640gb Western Digital WD6400AAKS

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136218

It runs on 2 platters, so its much cooler and quieter. Most reviewers say they cannot hear the drive accessing at all. I'd verify with others, but I've only heard amazing things about it.

Now, I'm not sure how much room you have in your case but there is a passively cooled 3850 from Sapphire that takes two slots.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136218

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:21 pm

Yes, the WD6400AAKS would be a good choice if you can stretch to it - very fast, quiet, and well worth the small extra cost over the previous generation of 500GB drives.

To be honest, for anything involving multimedia work (and particularly HD video) I'd probably go with a 1TB drive nowadays (WD or Samsung), but you didn't specify a budget and there's always the temptation to keep spending just that little bit more...

hybrid2d4x4 · Post by **hybrid2d4x4** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Hello and welcome to SPCR!

I recently built a budget multipurpose/light-gaming pc for my kid brother around that same mobo with great success using a 9600GT and a 5000+BE cpu. So far it handled every game we threw at it with full details (and often antialiasing) without flaw @ 1680x1050 (his monitor) and 1920x1080 (my tv) and the 9600GT only cost CDN$135 after mail in rebate.

With respect to your proposed build, I would agree with the other posters in stepping up to a HD3850, or better yet, a 9600GT if the price difference is small. A 3450 doesn't make much sense to me as it won't do anything over and above the on-board video (HD video-wise and in everyday 'office'-type use), and is pretty useless in games. IMO, the quad-core might be overkill for the kinds of things you intend to do with it, and you probably wouldn't notice the 'downgrade' to one of the tricores or even one of the faster-clocked X2s. Also, if you are going to go with 4 gigs ram, keep in mind that if you use a 32 bit OS, only ~2.5-3gigs will be addressed and usable. Otherwise, thumbs up on your choice of cooler, case and PSU, and good luck with your build

FartingBob · Post by **FartingBob** » Sat May 03, 2008 3:51 pm

diodo wrote:
FartingBob wrote:I dont know how much more expensive that premium RAM is, but its pointless. You wont see any difference compared to brand name normal RAM of the same speed. And if you fancy gaming, the GPU will need a boost IMO. A HD3850 or 9600GT would be ideal. The 3450 is good for HTPC use, but its not a gamers card.
Hi Bob, thank you for the super fast reply.
About the RAM modules: they're not very expensive in my country (Italy) (about 80 EURO for 4 GB), compared to other brands, but maybe i can find somethin' cheaper. For the VGA: is the 3450 so bad, also in hybrid crossfire?

Well if the RAM is roughly the same price, go as fast as you can! Its jsut i see some low latency RAM costing 50% more than normal stuff, its an easy way to cut down costs.
The 640GB Western Digital Drive is right in the sweet spot for pricing per GB and its widely agreed to be almost as quiet as the slower and more expensive GP series that WD also make (The GP uses the previous generation platters and uses the slower 5400rpm. Its still the quietest drive option, but slightly more expensive and less performance).

amyhughes · Post by **amyhughes** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:10 pm

hybrid2d4x4 wrote:With respect to your proposed build, I would agree with the other posters in stepping up to a HD3850, or better yet, a 9600GT if the price difference is small. A 3450 doesn't make much sense to me as it won't do anything over and above the on-board video (HD video-wise and in everyday 'office'-type use), and is pretty useless in games.

On a 780G board, certain ATI cards can combine forces with the onboard video. I don't think a 3850 can do that, but a 3450 (and 3470) can. In the future they intend that while you aren't using the extra power of the discrete card, it'll be shut off to conserve energy. Really cool, but I don't think that's implemented on the current board and I don't know if it'll be just a BIOS update.

_MarcoM_ · Post by **_MarcoM_** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:05 pm

The 640gb Western Digital WD6400AAKS is a good choice, quiet and faster, too. The price is not too high, in Italy i had found this: http://www.compuline.it/schedaprodotto. ... _cod=19517 but i don't know how good is this shop. The price is very good for our country, considering we have the highest prices on earth for everything...

The rest of your rig is nice for me.

Benvenuto in questa gabbia di matti amico!

hybrid2d4x4 · Post by **hybrid2d4x4** » Sun May 04, 2008 3:46 pm

amyhughes wrote: On a 780G board, certain ATI cards can combine forces with the onboard video. I don't think a 3850 can do that, but a 3450 (and 3470) can. In the future they intend that while you aren't using the extra power of the discrete card, it'll be shut off to conserve energy. Really cool, but I don't think that's implemented on the current board and I don't know if it'll be just a BIOS update.

This is true. Tom's HW found a 65% improvement over just the IGP on this board with the 3450, but here's my point: even with hybrid-cf, it still equals between 50-80% of the performance of a lowly 2600XT (!!!). See for yourself:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd ... 85-10.html
BTW, a 2600XT has ~1/4 to 1/2 of the horsepower of a 3850 in games (see the vga charts at tom's HW or guru3d.com).

"There is no point in even attempting to play Warhammer, Prey or Supreme Commander with the integrated graphics unit alone. While the benchmark results improve noticeably with a Hybrid CrossFire solution, the games are still not really playable."(-Tom's HW) ... so why spend $50 on a 3450 if almost nothing is gained? I still say that if you intend to play games, you need to step up to a capable lower-midrange card such as the 3850 or a 9600GT which can be had for as little as CDN$124 after rebate for the GT, or $129 for a 3850. Unfortunately there is no way around it- the capacity to play games costs money

diodo · Post by **diodo** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:36 am

Hi guys, here i am. I've been busy in these days, so i couldn't post.
I wanna thank you for your suggestions: you clarified my doubts.

I will take the 640GB western digital you suggested, and i'll switch the 3450 with a 9600GT.

I'm already wondering about the CPU, though: 5000 BE (or maybe the new 4850e) or one of those AMD tri-core? Considering i don't want to upgrade my system in the near future...

Thank you very much, mates!

Nighthog · Post by **Nighthog** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:20 am

diodo wrote:Hi guys, here i am. I've been busy in these days, so i couldn't post.
I wanna thank you for your suggestions: you clarified my doubts.

I will take the 640GB western digital you suggested, and i'll switch the 3450 with a 9600GT.

I'm already wondering about the CPU, though: 5000 BE (or maybe the new 4850e) or one of those AMD tri-core? Considering i don't want to upgrade my system in the near future...

Thank you very much, mates!

Did you not decide on the Phenom X4 9750 allready as that is written in your first post?

I have the Gigabyte GA-M78GM-S2H whit the Phenom 9750 and some corsair 2x2024Mb CL4 2.1volt memmory and I have no problems.
Only eventual problem may be the stock cooler it's at the limits at 100% cpu load whit 58-59C (Prime95 whit 4 worker threads stressing maximum heat), idle stays in 36-37C on each core. The problem is I heard a person mention that 60C is the max recomended temp for the phenom at another forums... I'm a bit sceptical it beeing such a low number though... but on a another matter getting the cpu t 100% load is rare.

Lliam · Post by **Lliam** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:25 am

At this time, AMD has not qualified the Jetway, ASRock, Gigabyte, Biostar, or Sapphire 780G boards to operate properly with the 125W TDP processors

The current version of the 780G boards may have problems if you want a more powerful cpu. I know you gamers - never satisfied! I get the impression that v1.1 might be worth waiting for.

Nighthog · Post by **Nighthog** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:47 am

Lliam wrote:
At this time, AMD has not qualified the Jetway, ASRock, Gigabyte, Biostar, or Sapphire 780G boards to operate properly with the 125W TDP processors
The current version of the 780G boards may have problems if you want a more powerful cpu. I know you gamers - never satisfied!

the 9750 125watt cpu is qualified for the 780G Gigabyte motherboard! it says so in clear text on the cpu-support list for the gigabyte board. Only cpu not supported is the 9850... I read somewhere on power consumption tests that the 9750 tops at 125W whit 100% load as it's rated but the 9850 went for a whopping 140W at 100% load! ewen beeing rated 125W...(don't remember where I read it but they tested LOADS of cpu's)

The Phenoms aren't all that nice in idle power usage which is a drawback.
You can read about that issue at tomshardware whit their 35 amd cpu energy consumption test.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd ... 925-7.html

The Phenoms can't go lower than 20watts under idle in comparison allways drawing about 2x more than any other amd cpu single or dual core. ( I think it's kinda natural in a sence there are 2x more cpu's than the competition... but toms doesn't seem to think so that much)

diodo · Post by **diodo** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:23 am

Nighthog wrote:Did you not decide on the Phenom X4 9750 allready as that is written in your first post?

Hi Nighthog, i don't know. In the beginning, i was thinking to take the Phenom 9750, in order to have a performing, future proof, PC but, as hybrid2d4x4 suggested, it could be overkill for my actual needs...
So, i was looking for the 4850e... do you think it can be a good choice?

Thxalot!

PS for MarcoM: Ciao amico, grazie per l'accoglienza, credo proprio che mi troverÃ² a mio agio allora!

Nighthog · Post by **Nighthog** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:56 am

diodo wrote:
Nighthog wrote:Did you not decide on the Phenom X4 9750 allready as that is written in your first post?
Hi Nighthog, i don't know. In the beginning, i was thinking to take the Phenom 9750, in order to have a performing, future proof, PC but, as hybrid2d4x4 suggested, it could be overkill for my actual needs...
So, i was looking for the 4850e... do you think it can be a good choice?

Thxalot!

PS for MarcoM: Ciao amico, grazie per l'accoglienza, credo proprio che mi troverÃ² a mio agio allora!

Well 4580e will probably do all fine. it's a 2.5Ghz cpu compared to the 9750 which is a 2.4Ghz. And the 4 cores off the 9750 might be quite rare to be able to get to use all the time. As you know most stuff seem to have this far only gotten decent dual-core support(games, media). Sure there are various programs that can also use 4 cores or more but I don't see you using them all to much.

Then 4850e beeing a 45Watt cpu... compared to the 125W Phenom 9750... You will save alot more power probably! So if you want the 9750 is if you only need those 4 cores.

diodo · Post by **diodo** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:19 am

Ok, i decided: i'll go with the 4850e.
Thank you very much for your help, mates, it was very precious!