Hi all. I have been lurking around here for a while and since I can't fix an instability issue with my old and loud Socket A system I have finally decided to let myself build a new PC filled with SPCR wisdom. The plan is already a little complicated.
Phase 1 (now): Put an MSI Diva into a good case (say Performance 1 or such) and make a near silent system running integrated graphics.
Phase 2 (in a few months): Add some more serious CPU (next stepping of AM3 processors?) and GPU (HD4850 or similar?) for some gaming grunt and accept a little more noise.
Phase 3 (probably next year): Move the Media Live to a HTPC case with some cool and quiet components to make a nice, quiet HTPC/general interneting PC. Take the CPU and GPU power and build a dedicated gaming rig in the Performance 1 case. Overclocking and Crossfire ahoy! Obviously this rig won't be silent.
So that is the plan and I am looking at Phase 1. I have:
CPU: AthlonX2 3800+ (65W, 90nm F3, was going spare)
CPU Cooler: Some generic top down thing.
HDD: Samsung F1 1TB
Optical: LG Bluray/HDDvd combo
PSU: Nexus Value 430
So what I need:
Mobo: MSI Media Diva Live. This is a given as I am quite intrigued by this beastie.
Memory: Just some standard DDR2-800 with low voltage and tight timings. Any recommendations?
Case: Can't decide between P182/P183/P193 (or another option?). There is no spcr review for the P193, is it worth the premium for a gaming rig? Also will the rattly top vent in the P183 affect a mediumly noisy gaming rig?
CPU Cooling: Probably a good idea to replace the cheapo one I have. I am a bit stuck here though. A good top-down cooler would seem like a good idea to also cool the Media Diva Live andhopefully prolong it's life. I am hoping that it will serve as the basis of a media center PC for some years. Any suggestions for something quiet, effective and short enough to eventually put in an HTPC?
Fans: Probably none since the supplied Antec fans will probably do for Phase 1. But am open to suggestions especially suggestions borne from the cases I am talking about.
Sorry for the essay. Thanks for taking time to read it and am looking forward to suggestions.
advice: allrounder based on MSI Media Diva Live
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
If I remember right, the sound card on the Diva prevents you from installing a graphic card with a dual slot cooler.
Also, I *think* you will want to look into the various performance issues of the different cpu's on different platforms--I think the Phenoms ran better than Athlons on the AM2, the different SB's affect this, and similar with AM2/3, DDR2/3, etc.
Also, I'm sure your topic title will bring in the forum member who's board caught fire and returned it a bazillion times.
Personally I think you should just aim for one system now and one later...
The AMD 785G chipset should be coming out in the fall with better audio support, though the Geforce (I think 8300/8400 on the AMD side, 9 series on the Intel side) sounds pretty good as-is.
The newer Ati graphics should be coming out around the same time, and I think Nvidia's next salvo should be around the same time.
Gaming wise, an Intel system is more powerful...you could go with an Intel system now, put in a nice videocard in the fall (whether the new ones or not, you should be able to get a great deal--even now the performance you can get for the price is unbelievable) and then see what the HTPC landscape looks like next spring or summer.
The idea you have sounds good, but from my experience it never works out that neatly (heh, my wife would agree with that
).
Also, I *think* you will want to look into the various performance issues of the different cpu's on different platforms--I think the Phenoms ran better than Athlons on the AM2, the different SB's affect this, and similar with AM2/3, DDR2/3, etc.
Also, I'm sure your topic title will bring in the forum member who's board caught fire and returned it a bazillion times.
Personally I think you should just aim for one system now and one later...
The AMD 785G chipset should be coming out in the fall with better audio support, though the Geforce (I think 8300/8400 on the AMD side, 9 series on the Intel side) sounds pretty good as-is.
The newer Ati graphics should be coming out around the same time, and I think Nvidia's next salvo should be around the same time.
Gaming wise, an Intel system is more powerful...you could go with an Intel system now, put in a nice videocard in the fall (whether the new ones or not, you should be able to get a great deal--even now the performance you can get for the price is unbelievable) and then see what the HTPC landscape looks like next spring or summer.
The idea you have sounds good, but from my experience it never works out that neatly (heh, my wife would agree with that
).Thanks for sticking with me! I am thinking about what you said but a couple of replies...
My personal circumstances dictate that a gaming rig isn't a priority. I am writing a thesis (so the fewer distractions the better). Come October I will be able to spend time on making a gaming PC and actually gaming on it (and I can take advantage of the DX11 generation or reduced prices). For now I just want something stable, quiet and media centre-y.
You mentioned other audio options but do any of them have the on-board amplifier of the MSI Diva? That is what really drew me, it is a nice idea even if it isn't so well implemeted (haha, catches fire...). I figure AMD, MSI and D2Audio deserve my support here. I haven't heard about a successor to Maui, but there definitely won't be if the original fails. So I'll take a gamble. If it fails out of warranty I am sure I can get a cheap AM2(+) board to keep the system going. I admit if there was an AMD 785G AM3 refresh of Maui I would be veeeery interested but I amn't counting on it.
Regarding the single slot between the amplifier card, forum user Mats suggested a solution, use a Thermalright HR-03 GT or similar to put the heatsink *behind* the graphics cards and into the region of the CPU cooling (well suited to a P1-series case). That is another reason to build in stages, see how all these dimensions pan out...
So basically I am pretty stubborn about my plan. I just need to choose a heatsink and a case. And maybe a different CPU, like 5050e or something newer...
My personal circumstances dictate that a gaming rig isn't a priority. I am writing a thesis (so the fewer distractions the better). Come October I will be able to spend time on making a gaming PC and actually gaming on it (and I can take advantage of the DX11 generation or reduced prices). For now I just want something stable, quiet and media centre-y.
You mentioned other audio options but do any of them have the on-board amplifier of the MSI Diva? That is what really drew me, it is a nice idea even if it isn't so well implemeted (haha, catches fire...). I figure AMD, MSI and D2Audio deserve my support here. I haven't heard about a successor to Maui, but there definitely won't be if the original fails. So I'll take a gamble. If it fails out of warranty I am sure I can get a cheap AM2(+) board to keep the system going. I admit if there was an AMD 785G AM3 refresh of Maui I would be veeeery interested but I amn't counting on it.
Regarding the single slot between the amplifier card, forum user Mats suggested a solution, use a Thermalright HR-03 GT or similar to put the heatsink *behind* the graphics cards and into the region of the CPU cooling (well suited to a P1-series case). That is another reason to build in stages, see how all these dimensions pan out...
So basically I am pretty stubborn about my plan. I just need to choose a heatsink and a case. And maybe a different CPU, like 5050e or something newer...
How crazy gaming are you planning? Standard dual core and single good card setup? No crazy storage requirements? The Solo is probably better than the others...the P18x series are large cases.
With a fan swap, something like the Zalman 7700 is pretty good for spreading some airflow around the CPU area.
As far as memory goes, I think any regular DDR2-800 should be fine.
With a fan swap, something like the Zalman 7700 is pretty good for spreading some airflow around the CPU area.
As far as memory goes, I think any regular DDR2-800 should be fine.
How crazy a gaming system.... umm... 'moderately' crazy? I figure that if I plan on eventually having a dedicated gaming box I should have a space for dual graphics cards. Certainly no crazy storage requirements.
I am leaning towards the P183 as a compromise. From the pictures I don't really like the style of the Solo and although the elastic HDD mounts seem great, I doubt that I will get the system quiet enough to really notice it (or that could be inexperience talking) . And I don't think the Solo would cope so well with Crossfire/SLI if I took that route.
And I am not sure of the P193. It looks a bit like overkill but maybe that big side fan is perfect for quietly cooling a dual card set up. It is shame spcr haven't reviewed it but I guess it just isn't quiet enough to be considered around here. So the P183 seems like a good bet.
As you advised I looked into the Zalman 7700 but it doesn't have AM2 mounting. It seems to have a sucessor, the 8700, which might be a good option but it is hard to say. I went through the spcr recommended heatsinks and found the Asus Triton 75 which I missed first time around. I could pick up Scythe Kama PWM to go with it which seemed to be well reviewed on spcr. Also the Noctua NH-C12P seem like a similar but more expensive option. I think either option would give some good top-down airflow.
I am leaning towards the P183 as a compromise. From the pictures I don't really like the style of the Solo and although the elastic HDD mounts seem great, I doubt that I will get the system quiet enough to really notice it (or that could be inexperience talking) . And I don't think the Solo would cope so well with Crossfire/SLI if I took that route.
And I am not sure of the P193. It looks a bit like overkill but maybe that big side fan is perfect for quietly cooling a dual card set up. It is shame spcr haven't reviewed it but I guess it just isn't quiet enough to be considered around here. So the P183 seems like a good bet.
As you advised I looked into the Zalman 7700 but it doesn't have AM2 mounting. It seems to have a sucessor, the 8700, which might be a good option but it is hard to say. I went through the spcr recommended heatsinks and found the Asus Triton 75 which I missed first time around. I could pick up Scythe Kama PWM to go with it which seemed to be well reviewed on spcr. Also the Noctua NH-C12P seem like a similar but more expensive option. I think either option would give some good top-down airflow.
What kind of case do you anticipate looking at for the HTPC? Reason I ask is that the usual low desktop style cases usually don't offer much in the way of front fan mounting--but if you were using a smaller tower you can usually put a fan in the front to blow back over the amplifier. Then you wouldn't need to restrict yourself to top-down coolers.
Yeah, dual graphics cards counts as crazy in my book
Yeah, dual graphics cards counts as crazy in my book
For a long time I would never consider dual graphics. The gains weren't linear and it seemed like extravagent overkill. Too much heat, noise and money for not much guaranteed performance. But it seems like crossfire and SLI have matured so it's seem like *if* you are going to have a decdicated gaming box then you might as well have the option. I just noticed the P193 going for only €140 which is seems very cheap. I am quite okay with the contraversial 'growth' on the side (especially since I know it houses such a huge fan) but it is just so damned *huge*, not so many desks are 60 cm deep...
I would be going for the usual low desktop style case. As far as I can tell both of the top-down coolers I mentioned would fit in an Antec Fusion (for example).
I am kinda sold on the sleek 'hifi look' (especially since with the Diva in it it would be an amp too), although a tower would be easier to cool, save horizonal space and would offer a lot more versatility...
So I think I will order the P193 and the Asus Triton this weekend since they give the most flexibility for my future plans. The little mATX Diva will look comedy inside the huage P193...
I would be going for the usual low desktop style case. As far as I can tell both of the top-down coolers I mentioned would fit in an Antec Fusion (for example).
I am kinda sold on the sleek 'hifi look' (especially since with the Diva in it it would be an amp too), although a tower would be easier to cool, save horizonal space and would offer a lot more versatility...
So I think I will order the P193 and the Asus Triton this weekend since they give the most flexibility for my future plans. The little mATX Diva will look comedy inside the huage P193...
Don't forget: you need this too 
Everything was going beautifully. Obviously P193 is a lovely if vast enclosure. Windows7 wasn't *too* rubbish (for something so heavily reminiscent of Vista). I had Blu-ray playback and the audio was great. Speedfan was reporting all temperature under 35 degrees. The board shipped with v1.20 BIOS with some much appreciated undervolting and underclocking options.
Then the MSI Media Live Diva died.
It didn't catch fire which was lucky because I had left the room. The symptons are exactly the same as others have reported (unplugging the 12V CPU connector gets some fans going but of course then it doesn't boot, plugging it back in kills it completely).
So this little gamble failed and I am preparing myself for what might be a lengthy RMA ordeal.
Feel free to say, 'Haha, told you so!'...
Then the MSI Media Live Diva died.
It didn't catch fire which was lucky because I had left the room. The symptons are exactly the same as others have reported (unplugging the 12V CPU connector gets some fans going but of course then it doesn't boot, plugging it back in kills it completely).
So this little gamble failed and I am preparing myself for what might be a lengthy RMA ordeal.
Feel free to say, 'Haha, told you so!'...
I'm not going to say "Ha Ha told you so". I'm a bit disappointed, was hoping someone would have a great experience and then I could talk myself into one--add some speakers and have a real nice little HD HTPC in the living room for a lot less than a separate receiver/speaker setup.
Would be nice if someone else tried this idea or if MSI would do anything to improve it...they apparently threw it out in the wild with minimal testing and half thought through, and abandoned it immediately.
Would be nice if someone else tried this idea or if MSI would do anything to improve it...they apparently threw it out in the wild with minimal testing and half thought through, and abandoned it immediately.
Agreed. I was hoping that perhaps they had ironed out the quality issues since it has been out for nearly a year but it clearly that just isn't
true. I got all hopeful when I realised it had shipped with an updated BIOS...
I have a feeling that this recession might squash the chances of a successor or alternative from a different company. But let's cross our fingers for something based on the 785G...
true. I got all hopeful when I realised it had shipped with an updated BIOS...
I have a feeling that this recession might squash the chances of a successor or alternative from a different company. But let's cross our fingers for something based on the 785G...
My mobo also died recently with these well known symptoms. MSI won'r replace it. The shop (ALTERNATE in Spain) won't replace it.
No more MSI boards here (and I buy A LOT of mobos a year, believe me).
I've found an alternative from Sparkle:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/20 ... -card.aspx
Not as powerful as the amp inside the Diva but at least you can use it on a reliable motherboard instead of this crap from MSI.
No more MSI boards here (and I buy A LOT of mobos a year, believe me).
I've found an alternative from Sparkle:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/20 ... -card.aspx
Not as powerful as the amp inside the Diva but at least you can use it on a reliable motherboard instead of this crap from MSI.
Hey, thanks for the tip. The card looks interesting, I look forward to reviews. Shame it isn't as powerful as the diva, I wonder how loud 2x25W is if I was just to start with stereo speakers...?
As for this bloody MSI board, I have returned my second board and asked for a third (maybe a mistake, since alternate.de are dragging their heels about this second replacement).
Why are MSI and alternate.es not replacing your board?
I have also decided to NEVER buy MSI again.
As for this bloody MSI board, I have returned my second board and asked for a third (maybe a mistake, since alternate.de are dragging their heels about this second replacement).
Why are MSI and alternate.es not replacing your board?
I have also decided to NEVER buy MSI again.
I just thought I would briefly revive this thread to document that my third MSI Media Diva Live has died, this time after a couple of months. I gave them three chances but...
EPIC FAIL MSI!!
I desperately wanted to buy this product but three out of three fails is simply terrible. I am really disappointed, it is a great idea which will probably die due to MSI's incompetent engineering. I will keep an eye out for that Sparkle audio amplifier if it makes it to a finished product.
I will get a refund, if I can, and buy a more reliable board, maybe the Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H about which frostyflakes has given me some great feedback.
EPIC FAIL MSI!!
I desperately wanted to buy this product but three out of three fails is simply terrible. I am really disappointed, it is a great idea which will probably die due to MSI's incompetent engineering. I will keep an eye out for that Sparkle audio amplifier if it makes it to a finished product.
I will get a refund, if I can, and buy a more reliable board, maybe the Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H about which frostyflakes has given me some great feedback.