a non-laptop laptop replacement on a budget

[onyxhive]

I've been running a laptop in a very desktoppy way for some years now. A macbook, it feels quiet when the fan is below 2500 rpm, but now the fan has started failing and is probably hitting something, making an annoying noise reminiscent of a PC speaker emulating an F1 engine. I can't open it and see exactly what's wrong (the screws are worn), and it's aged enough for me not to bother with sending it to service, should it break down.

So now I am thinking of building a desktop with a real tower case. I've had some tries of building computers with an aim on silence, yet have failed. This is my current shopping cart:

• Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H
  • contains a radeon HD 4200
• Athlon II X3 405e (45W TDP, boxed)
• Scythe Katana 3 CPU cooler
• 2x2GB DDR3 RAM
• 2x WD Scorpio Blue WD3200BEVT (2,5" @ 5400 RPM)
  • some adapters to mount them (plain metal)
  • also considering WD3200BPVT, the AdvFormat equivalent (4KB blocks)
• Antec NSK-4482-EC
  • includes an EarthWatts 380D Green
  • includes a 120-mm TriCool fan
  • has rubber mounts for the HDD bays

(I had nicely formatted links to the manufacturers' pages there, but the forum software blocks them...)

If the supplied fan is too loud, I have a spare Akasa AK-183-L2B 120mm fan (quite quiet), and a Nexus 120mm fan (quiet), but nothing to undervolt it with. Rubber mounts, too.

I am not expecting to game on this. Probably the most stressful thing I will do is compiling software. However, I will expect it to act as my music player (some is highly dynamic, including classical).

The components total about 550€ currently, and it's missing an optical drive or two. I would like to keep it below 600€, while retaining the option for possible future upgrades.

Any thoughts?

[mkk]

Not a particularly quiet case/PSU and the chassis fan will very likely have to be replaced, but considering the cost one can't deny that you get a decent PSU with the case. I don't have a direct recommendation on something not being considerably more expensive, but cases with the PSU mounted on top should be avoided whenever possible. Since you have been disappointed with the resulting noise level in the past I'm guessing that you really want to succeed this time.

[Strid]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

The parts you have laid out there are low-power, thus easy to make a quiet PC out of. So that's a very good start!

However, I do agree with mkk on the chassis/PSU. I'd consider another PSU - in fact, I recommend that you get a PicoPSU! IMO nothing beat those for quiet computing.
Also, I recommend that you buy a quality 120 mm fan in order to swap the stock fan of the case you end up with plus a fan controller, like a Zalman Fan Mate 2 or equivalent. You can also hardwire the fan to 7 V or 5 V if you want to.

As for the harddrive, suspend them in the 5.25" bays and they'll be very quiet. Suspension and soft mounting is really necessary for proper harddrive mounting

I personally too like the Antec NSK4482, but you need to do a couple of mods. So suspend the harddrives, another PSU and then get better fans. This is what I would do.

Good luck!

[onyxhive]

Thank you for your replies so far.

I'm not really sure how quiet I should aim for, but to give you an idea, I consider my laptop as the reference point. It is audible (when idle) from three-four metres. It has a Samsung M60 HDD (manufacturer says 2,6 bels seeking). I cannot hear the HDD seek noise unless I am about half a metre from the laptop. The fan (@1500 rpm) is considerably louder than the HDD. This I find completely acceptable.

I am hoping for similar idle noise from this system. When under (CPU) load, I can live with a bit of noise.

but cases with the PSU mounted on top should be avoided whenever possible.

As I understand this, the case air will not heat the PSU, which makes the PSU fan keep a lower RPM. Is this that much of an issue?

Since you have been disappointed with the resulting noise level in the past I'm guessing that you really want to succeed this time.

That's why I'm asking here

I actually managed to build a reasonably loud system (for its components!), based on a Nexus Clodius case. It contains six fans and four HDDs
I'd say it is still too loud (I feel stressed when it is on, and I avoid listening to music then). I can't put a decibel rating on it, but the stock Phenom fan, when the CPU is stressed, changes the tone but not the loudness.




But back to this prospective system. Let's try with the PSU first.
Fortron FSP350-60GHN(85): A version of this PSU got reviewed here in 2003 (favourable I think).
about 10€ higher we have Nexus Silent Power NX-3500, which got reviewed very favourably even at medium-high loads. It's far from 80+ efficient, though

As for the harddrive, suspend them in the 5.25" bays and they'll be very quiet. Suspension and soft mounting is really necessary for proper harddrive mounting

I would like to keep those bays open for optical drives. But since the HDDs are 2,5 inches, wouldn't the regular HDD bays work for suspension? I'm also not very sure how to suspend them...


I will go through the cases and post later. Personally, I'd love a Lian-Li, but my budget disagrees. I'm looking at a Cooler Master Elite 335 right now, but am a bit wary of the CPU duct...

[Strid]

Sure you can suspend a 2.5" HDD in the 2.5" bay! Should be no problem, really.

I'm not really an expert on PSUs, I personally swear by fanless units like PicoPSU and such. But rest assured, that no matter what case you get, you can make it extremely quiet. I use an old hacked up ThermalTake case, which was the loudest case I ever bought (with stock fans) but now it's completely inaudible, thanks to a couple of minor but careful mods.

[MikeC]

To ensure silent success this time w/o a lot of fuss, I suggest the following changes --

1) better case: Antec Solo w/ any one of the many current quiet PSUs from the recommended psu list - http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_PSUs. The Solo is very sturdy, well damped, good cable management, and it's the only case w/ a buiilt in elastic suspension for HDDs. Sonata Designer 500 is the same case with a pretty quiet Seasonic built 500w psu if the solo is unavailable or too pricey.

2) better/quieter HSF: The Katana 3 is ok but you can do way better for similar price. Check among 120mm fan tower hs here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_Heatsinks

3) single 1tb WD, Samsung or Seagate 5400 or 5900 rpm 3.5" drive. Cheaper, simpler, just as quiet when suspended in the Solo, and slightly better performance.

You can replace the case fan with your Nexus 120 fan, plug it and the heatsink fan into the mobo fan headers, and control the speed of both via the BIOS or something like speedfan. Or get a zalman fanmate with a 2-way splitter to control both fans with it.

With your other components, this will be very quiet and cool enough -- tho not silent. If you slow the fans enough, with one of the recommended psus, it could be virtually silent.

[onyxhive]

To ensure silent success this time w/o a lot of fuss, I suggest the following changes --

The changes are going over my budget, but you're probably correct. It's near-impossible finding a cheap case that does not somehow suck. (I just read a review of the Silverstone PS04 on tweak.dk. Bright blue power/hdd LEDs...)

3) single 1tb WD, Samsung or Seagate 5400 or 5900 rpm 3.5" drive. Cheaper, simpler, just as quiet when suspended in the Solo, and slightly better performance.

I do want two HDDs. Working with a single spindle is pretty glacial.

I can save a bit by replacing those HDDs with Samsung EcoGreen HD503HI (3,5", 5400 rpm), which, according to another thread here, are very quiet. That, and I get more space

Also noticed a Seagate Pipeline 5900.2 where the specs give lower decibel ratings but they have pretty bad seek times, so I guess I'll give them a pass.

I originally chose the 2,5-inch HDDs because I was impressed with their (lack of) noise. Thought that choosing them might be a sure bet compared to their larger brethren.

Thank you for your input. I'll have to think about this (and my budget) for a while.

[MikeC]

Just one point -- the random access time of a 2.5" 5400 drive is generally slower than that of a 3.5" 5400, which also has higher read/write rate due to high aerial density -- 500gb/platter these days. A 7200 2.5" roughly matches a 5400 3.5". So yeah, 2 2.5" 5400s in raid might match a single 3.5" 5400, but I'm not convinced it will be better. Considering your budget...

Again, as long as the SPL is modest, the elastic suspension tends to minimize the audible differences between drives. And the dirt-cheap 500gb Samsung ecodrive is a noise champ -- http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Sa ... en_HD502HI

[onyxhive]

Again, as long as the SPL is modest, the elastic suspension tends to minimize the audible differences between drives.

Basically, what you are saying is that all quiet-ish drives sound roughly the same under suspension? (meaning, I could get a 7200 rpm drive and not really hear the difference. I mean, the seek times might be worth it.)

But I limited my cooler choices to the following (all from the recommended list), and right now I feel like my best bet is flipping a coin...

• Scythe Zipang (top-down)
• Scythe Mugen 2 (PWM)
• Scythe Kabuto (top-down, PWM)
• Zalman CNPS10X Quiet

Personally, I find zalman's fan mate a bit unwieldy (where am I supposed to mount it?), and I have had bad experience with their fans (without undervolting), so I'm likely to choose a scythe.

Your review comments say "usual relative weakness of Scythe mounting" -- I guess that refers to the LGA775 mount? Is the AM3 mount better?

Oh, and the Zipang officially says it only supports AM2 and AM2+. Is that a problem?

I'm guessing a PWM fan would be better since the CPU is low-power. And because the CPU is low-power, it doesn't really need the extra cooling achievable with a side-blower. Instead, let the chipset have the air.

Heh, guess I just deducted my choice, without a coin-flip

[MikeC]

Basically, what you are saying is that all quiet-ish drives sound roughly the same under suspension? (meaning, I could get a 7200 rpm drive and not really hear the difference. I mean, the seek times might be worth it.)

The differences between two quiet drives becomes smaller when both are suspended. Between a 5400 and a 7200, there's a bigger difference to begin with, and even tho the suspension reduces it, that difference is probably still audible to most people when you get close enough (if they are both quiet). There's also a basic tonal difference -- the 90Hz primary of the 5400rpm vs 120Hz of the 7200. When hard mounted, the latter is usually slightly more audible given the same vibration level... but even w/ suspension, it's there.

I dunno... it's really hard to talk about. Let me put it this way -- right now, I have a bare 10krpm WD Velociraptor and an older 1TB Hitachi 7200rpm drive both suspended in my Solo. It's not the quietest machine, maybe measures 18-20 dBA/1m... but under my desk I hear neither of these drives as a discrete noise, and the computer is almost always quiet enough for me.

You might try listening to the recordings of specific drives (in our reviews) and compare them. Every drive was sitting on a soft foam pad when recorded; this is not much different from being suspended.

[onyxhive]

Last-minute question:

I am likely getting the side-blowing Mugen 2 after all. Assuming I put a Nexus 120mm at the exhaust (12 volts or slightly less), is the chipset cooling sufficient?

[onyxhive]

Thank you for your help. It is about as quiet as my laptop (the running noise is lower in pitch), except that the fan doesn't spin up under load. I'm satisfied, but I guess it could be a bit better...

The loudest part? Seasonic S12II-380 PSU.

I am likely getting the side-blowing Mugen 2 after all. Assuming I put a Nexus 120mm at the exhaust (12 volts or slightly less), is the chipset cooling sufficient?

I guess nobody could answer that. Here's what the sensors say when the system is idle:

Code: Select all

hw.sensors.km0.temp0=26.50 degC
hw.sensors.lm1.temp0=33.00 degC
hw.sensors.lm1.temp1=35.50 degC
hw.sensors.lm1.temp2=35.50 degC
hw.sensors.lm1.fan0=763 RPM
hw.sensors.lm1.fan1=718 RPM

It's stable, but I haven't tried stressing the graphics chip.