Feedback on prospective P180 / Pentium D system

[allskill]

I'd appreciate the comments of anyone willing to give me some feedback on a system I’m building for my boss and her husband. I’ve been lurking in the forums and reading the articles for the last week, but thought I’d post the proposed system specs before I pull the trigger.

I based my decisions for the system on three primary factors:

1. Data storage (need to keep an archive of thousands of digital SLR pictures)
2. Quietness (system will be in large open room not far from the home’s entrance)
3. Longevity of the system (that it will be effective for what they need for a few years)

Here are the system hardware specs:

• Case: Antec P180
• PSU: Seasonic S12-500 or -600 (price differential doesn’t seem that substantial)
• Mobo: Abit AW8-MAX (socket 775, Intel 955X chipset, heatpiped passive northbridge cooler)
• CPU: Intel Pentium D 830 dual-core at 3.0GHz
• CPU Cooler: Scythe SCNJ-1000 Ninja Heatpipe CPU Cooler
• Memory: 4 x Corsair 512MB DDR2-800 w/black heat spreaders (really two TWIN2X1024A-6400 1GB kits)
• System Drive: RAID 1 array of 2 x Western Digital Raptor 36GB SATA HDDs (to be placed in the upper chamber)
• Data Array: RAID 5 array of 4 x Samsung SpinPoint P SP2504C 250GB SATA HDDs (to be placed in the lower chamber)
• Video Card: OEM ATI Radeon X850 PRO PCIE 256MB DDR3
• Video Card Cooler: Zalman VF700-Cu
• DVD Drive: Plextor PX-716A 16X Internal Dual Layer DVD±R/RW
• TV Card: ATI TV Wonder Elite

I’m also planning to order several Nexus 120mm fans to replace Antec’s standard issue Tri fans if it becomes necessary, some Arctic Silver, and EndPCNoise’s anti-vibration PC mounting kit.

My principal concern is about the power supply (Q#1). With 6 HDDs and a DVD drive, it seems like I need a whole bunch of leads. I had initially planned to put an Antec Phantom 500 in for the PSU but got concerned after reviewing the “How is your Antec Phantom PSU working out?” thread and realizing that the blue light can’t be turned off. I’m hoping to try the tact of using the Seasonic’s fan to pull air across the data HDD array. Depending on the heat given off by the Samsung array, I may or may not need a lower chamber 120mm fan.

I would also be interested in feedback as to whether or not a Seasonic S12-430 would be sufficient for my power needs (Q#2). It seems like all the available leads would be used with that power supply.

Another question (Q#3) is around whether or not the leads of these fans should be attached to the mobo or attached directly to the power supply. The Abit mobo has 5 aux 3-pin fan leads, but I saw a post suggesting that it was a bad idea to tie so many fans directly into the mobo.

Lastly (Q#4) I'm not so sure about the Ninja versus the Zalman CNPS7700-AlCu. I'm concerned that I don't know enough about the heat dissipation needs of the new dual-core Pentium Ds to make a definitive decision.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

[jackylman]

What about an amd x2 3800+? Read the reviews that came out yesterday. The power dissipation is a lot lower than Pentium D.

[teknerd]

Wow. That's a powerful system. However there is a lot to change to make it better:

CPU: Pentium D's put out an inordinate amount of heat. Go with an Athlon X2 3800+, since the heat output is about 50% lower.

Motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI Premium - Passive northbridge, support for dual cores, and the secondary SATA controller supports RAID 5.

CPU Cooler: the Ninja is perfect to use in that case the CNPS 7700 can't even compare.

Hard Drives:
SYSTEM: Instead of 2 36GB Raptor's just use one 74GB. The 74 is faster than a 36 and will be quieter since there is only one drive.
Additionally RAID 0 setups have been shown to have a statistically insignificant effect on performance when used in a desktop situation.
DATA: That setup works, but it wont be that quiet. Also, given current HD reliability, that setup is more likely to fail because of an array corruption or controller fault rather than a disk failure. It would be a better idea to just use one or two and have an extra one in an external enclosure for doing backups.

PSU: The 430 would probably be able to handle it, but considering the small price difference and how close they are accoustically, you might as well get the extra headroom of a 500W version (especially with the heavy 12V pull when you initially turn it on)

Video Card: Good choice of card and cooler

TV Card: ATI's card's suck. get a Hauppauge PVR-500MCE. Its got dual tuners and a hardware mpeg2 encoder so the CPU overhead is less and the quality is higher.

[MikeC]

My principal concern is about the power supply (Q#1). With 6 HDDs and a DVD drive, it seems like I need a whole bunch of leads. I had initially planned to put an Antec Phantom 500 in for the PSU but got concerned after reviewing the “How is your Antec Phantom PSU working out?” thread and realizing that the blue light can’t be turned off. I’m hoping to try the tact of using the Seasonic’s fan to pull air across the data HDD array. Depending on the heat given off by the Samsung array, I may or may not need a lower chamber 120mm fan.

I would also be interested in feedback as to whether or not a Seasonic S12-430 would be sufficient for my power needs (Q#2). It seems like all the available leads would be used with that power supply.

Another question (Q#3) is around whether or not the leads of these fans should be attached to the mobo or attached directly to the power supply. The Abit mobo has 5 aux 3-pin fan leads, but I saw a post suggesting that it was a bad idea to tie so many fans directly into the mobo.

Ageed with teknerd about going with the higher power PSU. The turn on current transient from the HDDs alone could be around 100W on the 12V line. You can probably use the headroom.

If you block off the extra vents on the back around the PSU, you should not need a fan in the lower chamber to keep the drives cool. Just exercise good cable management down there.

I'd consider the suggestions about reducing the # of drives -- there is most definitely a noise and heat penalty and the gains may be insignificant.

As for fans, the ones that come with the case have only 4-pin Molex, so you don't have any option. Fan headers on motherboards are generally sufficient for 2-3 fans. It's when you hook up a bunch of high power fans drawing >0.4A at 5V (5W) that you'll start to run into problems.

[allskill]

jackylman & teknerd: It seems like there's still quite a price premium on the Athlon 64 X2 processors. Tom's review of it gave it good marks, but I would also be concerned about losing 512KB off each L2 cache. The system is also a near-term purchase, so I'm not sure I can wait these to start shipping and/or the price to come down to the $320 of the Pentium D 830.

I put the two 36GB Raptors in a RAID 1 array for redundancy, but maybe you guys are right and it's overkill. If I ditch the 2nd Raptor, then I can use SATA for the DVD drive, which would allow me to keep all the drives SATA. If I only have 1 raptor, maybe I should put it in an enclosure to fit in one of the open 5.25 bays. I'll do a quick forum seach, but does anyone have feedback on the effect of Nexus Drive-a-Away or other enclosures muffling and cooling Raptors?

Thanks for the feedback on the TV card, teknerd. I guess I should have done a little more looking before defaulting to ATI. Gaming performance isnt a concern with this machine, so I agree that the low end X850 card will be plenty good for a while. Morevoer, the Hauppauge you suggested is dual-tuner out of the box.

I know the 4 HDD data array alone means I can only expect so much "quiet" from this computer, but reliable, high capacity storage is priority 1 with this machine. I've been happy with the RAID 5 array I keep for the server at work (though after building this quieter machine, I have a feeling the PowerEdge 700 is going to seem even louder than it already does )

Seems like PSU decision will be -500 or -600 primary based on price. Anyone want to guess whether or not I should buy an extender for the 12V aux power?

MikeC: do you agree with the decision to swap whichever standard case fans I end up placing with Nexus 120mm? It sure seems like these are great performers for only $15 each.

[teknerd]

Gaming performance isnt a concern with this machine, so I agree that the low end X850 card will be plenty good for a while.

What are you planning to use the machine for. If its not gaming, any X850 is probably overkill.

It seems like there's still quite a price premium on the Athlon 64 X2 processors. Tom's review of it gave it good marks, but I would also be concerned about losing 512KB off each L2 cache.

The loss of 512KB of each L2 cache really doesnt make that much a difference because of the architecture of AMD chips. as far as the price and timing, they should be available fairly soon (2 weeks) and the price premium is worth it for better performance and substantially lower heat output.

I know the 4 HDD data array alone means I can only expect so much "quiet" from this computer, but reliable, high capacity storage is priority 1 with this machine. I've been happy with the RAID 5 array I keep for the server at work

I can appreciate that. I still think though that you can do better (both noise and security wise) by having two larger hard drives in the computer and then using external backup. Frankly even putting 2 320GB (or 400GB ones if you really need 800GB of storage, but 640 will probably cut it) western digitals in that system AND in another system in the house and then backing up over the network would work very well.

I agree that RAID 5 is very nice in servers, but a server and a desktop have very different priorities. A desktop can have downtime while you replace a drive that has failed, servers dont have that luxury so they need something that can be repaired on the fly, ie RAID 5.

I too used to be a big fan of RAID arrays (probably because they seem so cool), but i really have been drawn away from them. There are only two instances in which i see them being a good idea 1) enterprise setups and 2) when you need redundancy and simply can't afford the cost of buying enough disks to do a 1:1 backup.

[allskill]

Gaming performance isnt a concern with this machine, so I agree that the low end X850 card will be plenty good for a while.

What are you planning to use the machine for. If its not gaming, any X850 is probably overkill.

I'm suggesting a X850 to assure that the graphics card lasts for a couple of years. It's also going to be driving a Dell 2005FPW screen, so I need something able to spit out 1650x1050 without much of a sweat. The X850 Pro is available for $300, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a graphics card.

It seems like there's still quite a price premium on the Athlon 64 X2 processors. Tom's review of it gave it good marks, but I would also be concerned about losing 512KB off each L2 cache.

The loss of 512KB of each L2 cache really doesnt make that much a difference because of the architecture of AMD chips. as far as the price and timing, they should be available fairly soon (2 weeks) and the price premium is worth it for better performance and substantially lower heat output.

Do you have recommendations for review/analysis sites where this architectural difference is discussed? I was actually sorry to have lost a 1MB of L2 cache when I decided to put a Pentium D in instead of a Pentium 4 6xx.

[teknerd]

I'm suggesting a X850 to assure that the graphics card lasts for a couple of years. It's also going to be driving a Dell 2005FPW screen, so I need something able to spit out 1650x1050 without much of a sweat. The X850 Pro is available for $300, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a graphics card.

In that case it seems like a good choice, and it should be fine with the zalman on it.

Do you have recommendations for review/analysis sites where this architectural difference is discussed? I was actually sorry to have lost a 1MB of L2 cache when I decided to put a Pentium D in instead of a Pentium 4 6xx.

Tom's Hardware actually mentions it in the 3800+ review. But to just give you a quick breakdown:
The Pentium 4 features a 32 Stage computing pipeline, in order to keep that pipeline filled with data (and hence not waste CPU cycles) it needs a large on chip cache to provide the data very quickly. The A64's on the other hand have a much shorther pipeline, so the need for immediately available data is not as big, as it can process that data more efficiently.
That also shows you why the celeron is such a bad chip. With such little cached (usually 256kb), the P4 architecture, which the celeron is based on, is simply starved for data to process. So while a celeron may be able to run at 3GHZ it only has the ability to process data at a speed similar to a 2.4GHZ P4.
Anandtech, Techreport, Hot Hardware, all feature stories about these architectures or mention them when doing reviews of chips, sorry i dont have actual links.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

The AMD CPU's have 128KB (total) of L1 cache, which is a lot more than Intel's CPU's; and they have the memory controller on the CPU (which greatly lowers the latency and increases the bandwidth of the main memory) -- so they are much less dependent of the size of the L2 cache.

The AMD CPU's are "wide" vs the "narrow" design of the Intel CPU's. This is essentially why the AMD's can have so much lower heat output with similar performance: they have a much higher IPC (instructions per clock) and since they are clocked lower, they get the same work done, with lower heat generated.

How much does the Intel dual-core CPU cost, and how much for it's motherboard and RAM?

[allskill]

How much does the Intel dual-core CPU cost, and how much for it's motherboard and RAM?

As I've spec'd it out, I'm looking at a motherboard in the $180-$225 range, just because of the feature set I'm seeking. Similiarly, the RAM (Corsair XMS2-6400) is a very generous at 2GB, which will cost about $420. Most would probably be comfortable with just 1GB.

The last time I checked, the Pentium Ds (non-extreme edition) priced out at:
Pentium D 840 3.2GHz: $540
Pentium D 830 3.2GHz: $320
Pentium D 820 3.2GHz: $240

I'm reviewing the notes on the Athlon X2 3800+ now. Seems like it's initially retailing for $400ish.

[teknerd]

I just looked at monarchcomputer.com (which is probably my favorite online store) and they will have an OEM verison of the 3800+ available in about a week for $370. Together with an Asus A8N-SLI Premium ($180) and 2GB (2x1GB Sticks) of OCZ RAM ($220), the setup specs out to be less than the P4 setup.
(note, to get these prices you have to configure a "combo" setup on their website, just go here).

[allskill]

Do you have recommendations for review/analysis sites where this architectural difference is discussed? I was actually sorry to have lost a 1MB of L2 cache when I decided to put a Pentium D in instead of a Pentium 4 6xx.

Anandtech, Techreport, Hot Hardware, all feature stories about these architectures or mention them when doing reviews of chips, sorry i dont have actual links.

To answer my own question, this Anandtech article puts the 3800+ head-to-head with the Pentium D 830 and the 3800+ does beat it out on all the benchmarks that happen to be important to me.

Funny that all these articles came out yesterday. I was so busy reviewing other aspects of the system, I missed them all!

[teknerd]

To answer my own question, this Anandtech article puts the 3800+ head-to-head with the Pentium D 830 and the 3800+ does beat it out on all the benchmarks that happen to be important to me.

Funny that all these articles came out yesterday. I was so busy reviewing other aspects of the system, I missed them all!

Well, I'm just glad you've seen the AMD "Light"
And don't feel too bad about missing them, they all only came out yesterday because thats when the 3800+ was officially released.

btw, i love these threads where everybody is online and we have an entire conversation in a matter of hours.

[allskill]

Well, I'm just glad you've seen the AMD "Light"

I saw the numbers, which definitely gave me pause. Anandtech's final analysis "ever since Prescott, the Pentium 4 has been an utter disappointment" is a pretty scathing indictment.

I'm not totally converted yet though. Now I'm on the hunt for a motherboard that matches the features of the AW8-MAX I had originally selected.

[teknerd]

The Asus A8N-SLI Premium should fit the bill
looking at the specs it has everything the abit board does with the exception of 1394b, but nothing uses that anyway, so it doesnt really matter.
It has everything most people could want, especially the silent northbridge heatpipe cooler

[Daikhovalin]

Gods what a monster! Somebody's bucking for a promotion....

But seriously, I hope you budgeted in a few hours to manage all of the cables you're going to have (not to mention working the kinks out of the airflow).

You could go with 3x400GB WDs in RAID 5 for data, and 1xRaptor for the OS and Apps (all in the lower HD cage) to cut down on heat, cost, power consumption, and noise.

The P4 dual core does run a little hot, but if your client is going to do a lot of multi tasking, I'd recommend it over the AMD (ducks rocks thrown by AMD fans). This system does seem a little overkill for what you said your client is going to use it for. You could save them a lot of money by using regular (non-twinx, super-ultra-mega-overclocking-hardcore gamer's) RAM. In fact you could probably double the RAM for close to the same price. And unless they're going to be playing modern 3d games, the x850 is a bit much. The high resolution you wanted is going to have more to do with the RAM on the card than anything else. Something cheaper (in the 6600GT/x700 league) might work better and give off less heat/noise (especially if you replace the stock cooler on it). If they want to play Half-life 2, all bets are off as far as video. By backing off the specs a little, you'll save your boss some $ (which might impress her more) and cut down on noise/heat. You'll still have a reasonably future-proof system too, especially if all it'll be used for is storing editing photos and the like.

Tape up the vents on the back near the PSU and PCI slots, rip out the lower chamber fan, and put a nexus fan behind the upper HD cage as an intake are the only other suggestions I can make. Good luck and I hope this helps.

[teknerd]

Well Daikhovalin is definately right about the cable management, it is not gonna be easy, and it will be very important given how many cables there will be and how crucial the airflow is given the power of the setup.

As far as the chip recommendation, i'd disagree with it, not because im a fanboy (though i will admit i do have a preference for AMD) but simply because the benchmarks i have seen do not support his statement. the AMD chips have simply been shown to perform better in a clear majority of areas.

I'd also recommend using normal, but good quality ram, my personal choice would be OCZ Premier Series, its what i use and it works great.

[allskill]

I hope you budgeted in a few hours to manage all of the cables you're going to have (not to mention working the kinks out of the airflow).

Can you think of anything else I need to buy to help assure good cable management? Fortunately, with so many P180 systems being built by SPCR members, there are more than a few pictures, strategies, etc. I can use to help me avoid serious pitfalls.

You could go with 3x400GB WDs in RAID 5 for data, and 1xRaptor for the OS and Apps (all in the lower HD cage) to cut down on heat, cost, power consumption, and noise.

Hmmm... something to consider, but I'd have to assess the cost/benefits of running only a 3-drive RAID 5 array. Also, I selected the SP2504C for the sonic properties too.

The P4 dual core does run a little hot, but if your client is going to do a lot of multi tasking, I'd recommend it over the AMD (ducks rocks thrown by AMD fans).

I think given the discussion I'll try to spec out 2 different systems, one Intel, the other AMD and then make an assessment. As teknerd suggests Asus A8N-SLI Premium would probably be the mobo the AMD system would be based around. I definitely don't need to take advantage of the SLI, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have. The ASUS gives 2 extra SATA ports too (even though everyone seems to think I have too many drives in the system as it is )

You could save them a lot of money by using regular (non-twinx, super-ultra-mega-overclocking-hardcore gamer's) RAM. In fact you could probably double the RAM for close to the same price.

Damn, I didn't catch the fact I'd picked the toppity-toppest gamer memory. I can probably step a little back from that.

[allskill]

Gaming performance isnt a concern with this machine, so I agree that the low end X850 card will be plenty good for a while.

What are you planning to use the machine for. If its not gaming, any X850 is probably overkill.

teknerd, slighty off topic on SPCR, any feedback on using an ATI card with the nForce 4 Ultra chipset on the AN8-SLI Premium? Are nVidia cards (e.g., 6800) better bets? I'm not married to ATI, but I've never had an nVivida card.

[Daikhovalin]

As far as cable management goes, extensions for the 24-pin power (and 4-pin P4 12V if you need it) cable may be in order. Some zip ties might be useful as well. Some people like to sleeve all their cables as well. If you have any (non-SATA) IDE drives, I recommend the good old fashioned flat cables. They're easier to fold and conceal than rounded ones. The greatest boon I found for managing cables in the P180 was to remove the lower PSU chamber fan and route the PSU cables through the bulkhead and up into the upper chamber through the second opening. This gets the power cables closer to the upper cages and makes it easier to conceal them behind said cages. I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to invisible cables. It took me several hours to route everything in my P180 to my satisfaction. The absolute best piece of cable management advice I could give or receive is from Ralf Hutter: Take your time with it.

I like the 3 drive RAID 5 array because it's nice and even (2x400 for data, 1x400 for parity). My experience with RAID in servers has been that the 3 drive array is easier to replace a faulty drive because the array rebuilds faster with one whole drive devoted to parity. Yor milage may vary.

And though it burns me to admit it (I'm a fan of Intel...ducks more rocks), the AMD will be faster in single-threaded apps, which it sounds like your client will be running the majority of the time. Cooler too. However, I have no hands on experience with modern AMD systems and I'm basing this on articles and reviews I've read at reputable sites like Tom's and Anandtech. Again, your milage may vary.

Good luck.

[teknerd]

teknerd, any feedback on using an ATI card with the nForce 4 Ultra chipset on the AN8-SLI Premium? Are nVidia cards (e.g., 6800) better bets? I'm not married to ATI, but I've never had an nVivida card.

You won't have a problem with it (i currently have a radeon 9550 on an nforce2 chipset) however i have read reports that Nvidia cards run better on Nvidia chipsets (as opposed to other chipsets). however since basically all sites run their benchmarks on nforce4 based systems (assuming they use an AMD setup) you can get a pretty accurate picture of the performance between the two brands.

As far as the hard drives go 4 samsungs and 3 WD's will probably sound pretty similar. Given that, its probably better to go with the fewer number of HD's given that there will be less heat (not much, but every bit helps), less likelihood of drive failure, and more room to expand in the future if need be. The two upsides to 4 drives is less lost space (you lose 1 HD in each config for parity purposes) and slightly higher performance.
given that you dont need the better performance, and the 3x400GB still give you more total space and more room to expand, they are definately the better bet.

[allskill]

After much hemming, hawing, and agonizing and reading many, many more reviews and analyses, I've slightly modified my original system plans. Thanks especially to teknerd and Daikhovalin for their advice and feedback in this thread.

Ultimately, even though the AMD 3800+ seems like it's the better performer and has much better thermal properties, the advantages of the Intel 955X chipset moved me back to a 955X/Pentium D configuration. I won't bore you with the details or all of the various scenarios, but a couple of critical factors, including RAID 5 native on the ICH7R southbridge and the lack of a need for a SLI system, helped make my decision.

That being said, I did modify my storage plans to reduce the overall number of hard disk drives in the system from 6 initially to 4 now and dialed down the memory to be fast, low latency stuff, but not necessarily gamer quality components.

The new configuration:

• Case: Antec P180
• Power Supply: Seasonic S12-500
• Mobo: Abit AW8-MAX (socket 775, Intel 955X chipset, heatpiped passive northbridge cooler)
• CPU: Intel Pentium D 830 dual-core at 3.0GHz
• CPU Cooler: Scythe SCNJ-1000 Ninja Heatpipe CPU Cooler
• Memory: 4 x Corsair 512MB DDR2-667 w/black heat spreaders (really two TWIN2X1024-5400C4 1GB kits; 4-4-4-12 latencies) (OCZ doesn't have any of Abit's recent board's on the compatibility list)
• System Drive: Western Digital Raptor 36GB SATA HDD (I may switch to a 74GB at the last minute)
• Data Array: RAID 5 array of 3 x Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JD 320GB Serial ATA 7200RPM HDDs w/8MB buffers (let's hope I don't get noisy ones)
• Video Card: OEM ATI Radeon X850 PRO PCIE 256MB DDR3
• Video Card Cooler: Zalman VF700-Cu
• DVD Drive: Plextor PX-716SA 16X Internal Serial ATA Dual Layer DVD±R/RW CD-R/RW Drive
• TV Card: Hauppauge PVR-500MCE
• Fans: 3 or 4 Nexus 120mm fans

Thanks again for the feedback! I'll post again once the components arrive and I start the build.

[RoundSparrow]

With the new Presler 65nm Pentium D's shipping next week... I'm sure more people will be interested in such a system. Thanks for this thread, putting it up top.

The motherboard you selected, AW8-MAX, new BIOS 15 supports the 65nm chips! Lot less heat.

[depravedone]

First off, you should not even consider removing the lower chamber fan if you're going to have 4 hard drives down there. That would be a quick ticket to drive failure right there. As for the processor choice, I would definately go with the AMD X2 3800+.

The upper hard drive mounting location is difficult to fit anything in if you have a large video card. I would consider avoiding even having that carrier in the case altogether as it is quite tight.

This pic of my system in the P180 with a 6800GT shows just what I'm talking about. I dont even have the upper driver carrier in there anymore.



As for the VGA duct, make sure you remove that and put it away, because it will only hamper airflow. Even with a fan installed it is less effective than leaving it out.

[ronrem]

A Raptor is fast but NOT quiet. 2 Raptors running full time...with a 4 disc storage raid will give brisk performance-but you'd need a cinderblock case to make it quiet. The Pentium puts out far more heat than the AMD X2. There are MANY good chipset options,and mobo makers have lots of variants. You can run 6 SATA HDs off an ECS KN-1. Intel can't out perform an Athlon currently,unless you want to bake cookies in the case as you work.

It would be cool to have this rig for its all out speed...but I think you ALSO want SOME quietness,or you'd be at an overclocker forum. You can go with 2 pair of 400 gb HD's in mirroring only for storage,getting the redundancy,and the capacity,but not the speed of stripping,or the noise of those extra 2 drives always running. A Raptor and 2 storage drives often all active (assuming the second pair of storage drives seldom runs at the same time) has to be FAR less racket than 2 Raptors and 4 &200 rpms all spinning always. Speed? It's a Raptor holding the software and SATA2 storage....how fast do you type? Spend some of the savings on a good soundcard.

With all this hardware,I'd figure on a big full tower. Squeezing a lot of stuff into a midsize box is not so good for airflow. Check out the new Aerocool Streamliner fans at SVC, 140 mm,1000 rpm stock. Big and slow and quiet,like a girl I used to date.....

[Bob_the_lost]

Ditch the P4, look at the power disiption figures, even at idle it'll be pumping out more heat than an A64 at full load. CPU is not the place to skimp on quality because you want to save money. Even if you adore the chipset features it's a stupid mistake if you value low noise levels.

I don't know about the old 36Gb ones, but the 74gb Raptor isn't all that loud, the newer models have queiter bearing technology than they did orriginaly. I've got one sat in my p180 and i've no complaints on the noise front.

Also on your RAM, normally i'd be saying buy 2x1gb rather than 4x512, pentiums are rather poor at memory handling and making them work even harder is not a good plan. But since you're not going to do anything challenging like gaming with this system you could probably get away with it.

If you want a good A64 mobo with onboard RAID support and no SLI then look at this little beauty the A8R-MVP: http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?mode ... l2=15&l3=0

‧4 x Serial ATA 3.0Gb/s with RAID 0, 1, 1+0, 5, and JBOD support

Passivly cooled, solid as a rock even when overclocked, great features and most importantly not crippled with a pentium chip. I almost bought one but they had only just been released when i bought my rig and i couldn't wait.

If you're dead set on the P4 then get it, but ask WHY exactly you're going for it, if you simply can't afford the 3800 then that's fine, if you just can't find the bits you need for AMD boards then that's fine too. If you're just sticking with P4s out of mental inertia (i'm as guilty of this as anyone ) then a re evaluation is in order.