Quieting the loudest pc you have ever heard.

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-tito-
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:39 pm

Quieting the loudest pc you have ever heard.

Post by -tito- » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:11 pm

Hello everyone,

I have recently come across this site and have been quite busy reading. Excellent articles and posts throughout. I have learned quite alot. This post will be quite lenthy so I thank you for your patience and advice!

Background:
- I have built untold number of pc's most of which I used the stock Heatsink/Fan combo, minimalistic fans, and chiefly the Antec Sonata, 1 Hard drive, etc. Essentially the drives exhibited a Whir/Whoosh sound but nothing outside a normal quiet Dell would. Perfect for everyone..

Well, then 2 years ago I decided to embark on building myself a dream machine...This is the catastrophic result :

-Abit IC7-Max3:
-P4C 2.8C @ 3.2
-Thermaltake SLK-947U w/ Panaflo H1 (Used to be the mind numbing Smart Fan II @ full bore ~60db)
-1GB Kinston Hyperx PC3700
-Enermax 465W W/ 2 80 MM Fans
-1x36GB Raptor HD
-1x200GB WD -Storage
-1x400GB Seagate 7200.8
-Nvidia 5900
-2 Antec Clear 120MM fans @ 12V
-All Wrapped in an Antec Sonata (I thought this would all be "quiet" when I bought it)

Essentially this pc is a lawnmower. Even 2 years down the road it is still quite quick as my OS is kept very lean but the noise is to the point of being unbearable and has been from the first week I turned it on. :oops:


Now I can continue dealing with this for another ~9 months and buy a new system, build it from the ground up, or try to silence this. What would you guys do?

This is what I am thinking:

--Seasonic S12500. I would need a 24 pin --> 20 pin connector but I could use it in the new system
-Sythe Ninja w/ Nexus 120MM @ 12V (the chip runs hot) + AS Ceramique
-Zalman VF700-ALCU
-Zalman ZM-RHS 1 -Video Card Ram Heatsinks
-NoVibes 3 for all 3 my HD's (will probably disable my 200GB for the moment)
-Zalman ZM-NB47J North-Bridge Cooler
-2 Nexus Fans @ 12V
-Antec P180
___________________________________________________________________

Now- My worries is the space between the northbridge cooler and the heatsink. Should I experience a problem?

Image
The little blue northbridge fan is the loudest pulsating, aggravating fan I have ever heard. :oops: To add insult to injury the capacitors are cooled as well by another fan (this one is pretty quiet..I Think) Image

So what do you guys think? I wish I could record a clip from 3 feet away of how loud my current system is. You guys would have a stroke :oops:

Thanks again!

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:25 pm

IMO if you're going to replace the system in 9 months, its not worth the trouble redoing your whole current system. I would look for some budget options to quiet the system down to more acceptable levels.

Maybe put in a new northbridge cooler which you can always take off and put on your new motherboard if its not passive. Not sure if a Zalman passive NB heatsink will clear the other heatsinks. It should clear the CPU heatsink if the CPU heatsink is oriented so the fins are parallel to the PCI and AGP slots. You should also look into your graphics card heatsink. It might interfere with that too.

. . . oh and Welcome to SPCR!!
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Post by MikeC » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:50 pm

9 mos is a long time to put up with the loudest pc you've ever heard.

Go for it! 8)

PS -- forget novibes; there's no place for them in the P180 except up in the CD bays, and then they'll run hot. Just use the existing grommet/bolt system, it's quite good.

And you'll probably want to un your fans lower than 12V. Maybe a fan controller or some fanmates.

If your system is under high load often, I might recommend a Thermalright SI/XP-120 instead of the NInja -- Intel Prescotts require a lot of juice from the voltage regulators on the motherboard, and those things can get hot. It can affect efficiency & stability if they're not cooled with direct airflow. A downblowing HSF may be a better option in such cases.

Also you may or may not need some extenders for your PSU output cables (AUX12V and main ATX). Depends on position of connectors on the MB.
Mike Chin, SPCR Editor/Publisher
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-tito-
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:39 pm

Post by -tito- » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:49 pm

Thanks for the response guys.

Yes, 9 more months will be unbearable. This pc can be heard upstairs.

About the load...This pc is always at 100% load with 2 instances of Folding@Home running in the background.

The XP-120 does not fit on this motherboard. I am unsure if the Xp-120 will, however. This is especially true depending on the size of the northbridge heatsink. After some reading the SI-120 should be able to fit "almost any motherboard out there." I am still trying to find a full compatibility list like Thermalright has for the rest of their Heatsinks. I was thinking of pairing it with a Nexus 120 MM. That should be sufficient.

Lastly this isn't a Prescott. That is the "E" version...so it runs a tad cooler. Granted not much ;)

dragmor
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Post by dragmor » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:08 pm

The loudest PC I have ever heard belongs to a friend (and lives in his garage). It has 4 "Delta 120mm Ultimate High Speed Fan TFB1212GHE" 220CFM at 65.0 dB, and basically a wind tunnel.
http://www.pccasegear.com.au/category184_1.htm

Your on the right track, you need a better/quieter HS+Fan and Power supply. You could probably get away with just fan mating the case fans if you give it more air flow (get rid of the grill, etc).

sthayashi
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Post by sthayashi » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:41 pm

Dude, you're running a Northwood! Try keeping your heatsink and just doing a fan swap to a lower powered fan. Your heatsink was an SPCR favored heatsink way back in the day. IIRC, it was comparable to the Zalman 7000-AlCu.

The Enermax 465 IS loud. Make its replacement top priority after the above heatsink fan replacement. Hell, if you have a Sonata, you may still have the SL-350S PSU kicking around, that'll do in a pinch.

And for goodness sake, don't disable your 200GB hard drive. It may actually be the quietest drive you have in your system. The 36 GB is likely the loudest.
[size=75][url=http://www.twolf1300.net/sthayashi/SPCR/systems.html]My Power Rig, Storage Rig, HTPC and Main Rig[/url][/size]

Zillidot
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Post by Zillidot » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:58 am

I had an Abit IC7-G, and I can attest that the northbridge fan is the most annoying thing ever :)

I bought a Zalman NB47J to replace it, but mounting it was a problem as the original cooler uses mounting hooks, and the NB47J does not have mounting hooks. I didn't want to use epoxy, and I was too lazy to make my own mounting hooks (apparently you can do so with the appropriate pieces of wire), so I never installed it.

In the end, I just unplugged the fan. It worked fine :)

I think you don't need a fan if you have enough airflow from nearby components, such as the CPU fan. In my case, my video card fan (the fan that goes with the Zalman ZM80D) supplied the necessary airflow.

-tito-
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:39 pm

Post by -tito- » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:35 am

Thanks for the continued advice guys.

-I bought the 947-U back when it was the one and only option. I later bought a XP-120 because I wanted to mate it with a slower speed 120MM fan but alas I could not fit the XP-120 in my motherboard.

-As for just swapping my Heatsink fan I am already running the Panaflo H1, while it is not the L1 or the M1 (I think those two) it is one of their quietest fans that usually is regarded as "very quiet" (Note: not for this website but for the general public 8) ). This is why I would not mind the $55 cost of switching to the SI-120.

-The 200GB drive I can disable because currently I can move everything to the 400GB drive. I just liked the double redundancy.

-I presumed that a lot of the noise (and it really is a LOT) was coming from the dual 80MM fans on my Enermax 465. That is a high piority. I do not have the original, much quieter, Antec True 350 as that went into another person's system build!

-Zillidot: Thank you for the response about the Northbridge cooler. I was afraid of that! The heatsink they have on there is quite a nice one, large, and should be more than enough if I just unplug the fan. Good Idea! Also, in the Antec Sonata I have one intake 120MM fan and one going out so there really is a nice current of airflow from front to back (with some going to psu).

- :shock: :shock: Delta's :shock: :shock:

-Lastly, does anyone know where I could buy a 6600GT AGPpassively cooled? I remember reading somewhere that these do exist...This might push this system a full year + longer in its lifespan.

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:48 am

For the PSU, you could probably do with either a 330W S12 from Seasonic, Enermax Noisetaker 370W, 350W Blue Storm from Fortron, or wait a little while and grab one of the new Antec Neo HE in the 300W range. All vary in price, but should be top notch and fairly quiet. Take your pick.

For your graphics card are you looking for something like this?
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=322273
It certainly isn't cheap for a 6600GT, but it is passive and AGP. Make sure you have enough airflow for these cards, and if your temps are up around 85ºC at idle, you might want to try reattaching the Gigabyte heatsink with new thermal paste (AS5 or AS Ceramique) or RMA for a new one. There have been some issues with heatsinks not being tight and resulting in very high temps.
Brother's: Antec 3000B, C2D E6600, ASUS P5K, XFX 6850, 4GB DDRe RAM, 160GB Seagate 7200.8 & 2x 2TB Caviar Green, ASUS 16X DVD-ROM, Sony DVD-RW, Corsair 400W, Thermalright HR-01, 2x Scythe 120mm Low Speed Fans
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-tito-
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:39 pm

Post by -tito- » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:47 pm

Essentially that is what I was looking for. I like the interpretation Asus did with their heatpipe but...alas...it is PCI-E.

Also if you break it down you can buy a normal 6600GT and add a Zalman cooler on it or buy that. Both will end up being the same price so it really is a toss-up.

thanks!

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:46 pm

Well, not really a toss up. As long as you have decent airflow in the area, the Gigabyte card would be better since you won't void your warranty by taking off the heatsink. There's also less work involved. :)
Brother's: Antec 3000B, C2D E6600, ASUS P5K, XFX 6850, 4GB DDRe RAM, 160GB Seagate 7200.8 & 2x 2TB Caviar Green, ASUS 16X DVD-ROM, Sony DVD-RW, Corsair 400W, Thermalright HR-01, 2x Scythe 120mm Low Speed Fans
Mine: Antec NSK3480 w/EA 380W, i5-750, Gigabyte P55M-UD4, Sapphire 5750, 4GB DDR3, 60GB OCZ Agility & 500GB Seagate 7200.8, Xigmatek HDT-S964

-tito-
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Post by -tito- » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:21 pm

Somehow what I wanted to say and what I wrote were 2 separate entities :oops:

You are very right;

It is not that I am wary of working on the pc, it is merely that I would hate to break a 200+(normally I just get the highest end model and keep it for a while) video card as I have never modified one.

Funny considering the amount of overclocking I have done on similarly priced CPU's 8)

KorruptioN
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Re: Quieting the loudest pc you have ever heard.

Post by KorruptioN » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:59 am

-tito- wrote:--Seasonic S12500. I would need a 24 pin --> 20 pin connector but I could use it in the new system
You don't. The extra four-pin section just slips off.
[size=75]Deal with it.[/size]

wainwra
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Post by wainwra » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:58 pm

dragmor wrote:The loudest PC I have ever heard belongs to a friend (and lives in his garage). It has 4 "Delta 120mm Ultimate High Speed Fan TFB1212GHE" 220CFM at 65.0 dB, and basically a wind tunnel.
http://www.pccasegear.com.au/category184_1.htm
Well, I've been clearly been hanging around spcr too much - I'd not heard of Delta fans, so I followed the link. :D
This is the first 120mm DC fan we've seen to break the 200 CFM barrier. The TFB1212GHE Ultimate High Speed 120mm Delta pushes out an incredible 220 CFM at 65.0 dB. Delta fans have a well-deserved reputation for superior quality and reliability. Each TFB1212GHE is pre-fitted with two connectors (3+4 pin). More details...

Sold out - more stock due mid October
Allow me to ram this home...
... at 65.0 dB ...
... Sold out ...
The world is full of nutters! And your friend had four of these!
[size=75]My system (not working):
Antec P180, ASUS A8N32-SLI, X2 3800+, Scythe Ninja, S12-500 PSU, 2x80GB 2.5" SATA Seagate 7200.1, 3 NoiseMagic NoVibes HDD suspension racks, MSI NX6600LE TD256 VGA card, 3 Papst F2GLLE fans, Enermax UC 9FATR2 fan controller, NoiseMagic EWMS fan controller, BENQ 1640 DVD writer[/size]

SebRad
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Post by SebRad » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:56 pm

Hi, much the same advice as everyone else, I would:
Swap the PSU and the Northbridge cooler (S12xxx and NB 47J)
Swap the graphics card cooling, probably for a NV silencer 3/4 or whatever fits.
Buy a fan controller to tame the CPU/case fans.
As has been said the CPU cooler is fine (assuming you're aiming at tolerable rather than really quiet), the H1A at 5V maybe ok or may need another, ditto for the case fans.
As for HDD once fans are under control unplug all HDDs (power and data) and fire machine up to get a feel for baseline noise level. Then connect only one HDDs power and power machine up again. Unplug it and repeat with the other 2, this should give you a good idea of the noise levels of each. I suspect the 200GB and 400GB will seam pretty quiet but the Raptor may not. The newer 74GB Raptor is much quieter as it has FDB.
PSU £40-60, ZM47J £5-10, NV Silencer £15-20, fan controller £5-30, 74GB Raptor £125, so it shouldn't be too costly to improve it dramatically.
Hell just 5V or 7V all the fans (inc gfx and NB), costs nothing but some effort and maybe good enough! (watch the temps if you try this, CPU<65, GPU<90, HDD<45 is OK)

That Delta fan is insane, 120x38mm@4600rpm! 4600, what PC could possibly need that much? And the power draw, 2.5A / 30w, that’s as much as 1GHz P3 and more than my gfx card! A finger guard should be mandatory.

Seb
i7 2600k under NH-C14 w/2xTY-147PWM fans, P8P67Deluxe, 8GB RAM, GTX560Ti OC w/TwinTurbo II and BIOS fanspeed mod. MX100 512GB & 2TB EARX in Scythe QuietDrive outside case. Antec Signature 650 fan swapped. CoolerMaster 201C with 2x92 + lower 92mm fan out rear, holes-in-floor and mesh top+front intakes.

dragmor
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Post by dragmor » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:16 pm

wainwra wrote:Sold out - more stock due mid October
Apparently they are selling very well, I can only assume people dont understand the 65dba, and learn the hardway when they get it home.
wainwra wrote:Allow me to ram this home...
... at 65.0 dB ...
... Sold out ...
The world is full of nutters! And your friend had four of these!
To be fair its a 4P dual core (875 Opterons) 4 unit server that lives outside the house, so it doesnt effect day to day hearing and he does live in the tropics (45c summer, 30 at night) with no AC. He air tight sealed the case except for the 2 fans in the front and two in the back. Everything inside is passivly cooled by the flow through.

I took an old 60mm screamer CPU fan (7000rpm) and plugged it into a old PC next to this beast and we could not hear it.

-tito-
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:39 pm

Post by -tito- » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:30 pm

Well yesterday I did the following:

-Antec P180
-4 Yate-Loon D12Sl-12. Same thing as the nexus (well 350rpm higher) at about a 1/5th the cost!
-Scythe Ninja
-6800GT (so now this system has longer legs than 6months. This is coming from a 5900/9700PRO so it is quite an improvement)
-Zalman VF700-ALCU
-Zalman Ram sinks for the video card
-Seasonic S12-430
-Zalman 5.25" Fan controller.

I can't wait. This should be quite an overhaul.

I intend to have 1 of the Yate-Loons as an intake on the top of the P180 and one as exhaust. That way there is almost a wind tunnel effect on the Ninja. Should be sufficient I would presume? (Using AS Ceramique as well)

1 of the fans in the bottom by the psu just due to the sheer fact that that I have 3 HD's (maybe down to 2 if I disable the 200 GB one until I really require it).

I will be disabling the very annoying northbridge fan, the heatsink will be sufficient.

I intend to run the fans more than likely 7V (who knows, maybe i'll be risque and go to 5 :wink: .

Thoughts on everything? Did I overlook something?

I could not really use the fans that I have as I noticed that they emit a lot of noise even though they really aren't spinning all that fast. It appears to be more vibrational than anything.

I will say ever since really starting to be annoyed with my pc, seeing the alternatives (or should I say hearing? :lol: ) I have begun paying way too much attention to sound noise.

Sigh...so is this the beginning of the never-ending struggle guys??

Overall it was decently expensive but I have learned my lesson to merely do my homework ahead of time. I will be sure to post pics and surely I will have more questions to come.

thanks all for the help!

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:33 am

Trying to make that Northwood cool + Quiet seems to cost enough that I'd say screw it,get a Venice 3000 or 3200 and a basic mobo like the Asrock. The Sonata is fine and if the fans you have can undervolt to get around 700 rpm,that works. I advovate Coolmax CR PSU's,nice price and there is a single multi-speed 140mm Yate Loon in it.. Next to an NCU 2005 Scythe heatlane,or a Ninja you got 1 fan cooling your CPU and PSU. Add a SLOW 120mm case fan and your set. Get some plan to heatsink and enclose the Raptor,and then suspend HD's. You can get a sabre Saw,cut out the 3 1/2" bays,salvage some old junked cxase for 5 1/2 bays and get a bunch of mini-bubgees or ever rubber hair ties-like for ponytails-


the Seasonic is a fine PSU-but the Coolmax's are about $30 less. You can pass on the p180,use your Sonata....that saves enough to cover the cost of a Venice 3000. Get one Coolermaster 120mm,the one that runs stock at 720 rpm. $10. Cheaper than a couple of Nexus + Fan-Mates to undervolt...and you save almost the cost of the Asrock mobo.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:50 am

[quot



Sigh...so is this the beginning of the never-ending struggle guys??



thanks all for the help![/quote]

never again will you sleep in the same room as a 5000 rpm fan,not because its too damn noisy,but because of the principle of the thing.

you will find yourself explaining heatpipes to a really good looking chick not quite realizing that you will not be getting laid that night.

You will stay up late thinking about building a truly silent PC case using cinderblocks and about 15 pounds of copper pipe.

With the computer now truely quiet-you will begin to wonder if it's wise to move the refrigerator to the front porch...... :D

-tito-
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Post by -tito- » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:37 pm

ronrem wrote:Trying to make that Northwood cool + Quiet seems to cost enough that I'd say screw it,get a Venice 3000 or 3200 and a basic mobo like the Asrock. The Sonata is fine and if the fans you have can undervolt to get around 700 rpm,that works. I advovate Coolmax CR PSU's,nice price and there is a single multi-speed 140mm Yate Loon in it.. Next to an NCU 2005 Scythe heatlane,or a Ninja you got 1 fan cooling your CPU and PSU. Add a SLOW 120mm case fan and your set. Get some plan to heatsink and enclose the Raptor,and then suspend HD's. You can get a sabre Saw,cut out the 3 1/2" bays,salvage some old junked cxase for 5 1/2 bays and get a bunch of mini-bubgees or ever rubber hair ties-like for ponytails-


the Seasonic is a fine PSU-but the Coolmax's are about $30 less. You can pass on the p180,use your Sonata....that saves enough to cover the cost of a Venice 3000. Get one Coolermaster 120mm,the one that runs stock at 720 rpm. $10. Cheaper than a couple of Nexus + Fan-Mates to undervolt...and you save almost the cost of the Asrock mobo.
While you are very right in the fact that in the end, with the 6800GT, I spent around $450-$500 here is why I chose NOT to get the A64.

- I can reuse the P180, Seasonic S12, Zalman VF700, and more than likely the Scythe Ninja.
-While I could get a Venice 3000 it honestly would not be a large improvement over my 3.2 ghz (2.8 overclocked to 3.2) sytem. In the end I would merely put it togehter, see a slight increase in performance, and want to upgrade anyways. Also, I would not have the 6800GT, if I did I would still be in the $400+ range anyways.
-I intend to upgrade next fall/Winter to an A64 M2 which should run cooler , Vista will be out (we hope), and I could upgrade to pci-E and do the whole she-bang.
-That will not be that expensive of an upgrade as I now have the monitor/speakers/case/psu/etc that I desire. :)

But what you said is definitely what went through my mind as I was pondering on whether to purchase the parts or not. Besides, I might as well "experiment" on my pc that will be changed soon enough instead of the "real deal" 8)

-tito-
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Post by -tito- » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:39 pm

ronrem wrote:[quot



Sigh...so is this the beginning of the never-ending struggle guys??



thanks all for the help!
never again will you sleep in the same room as a 5000 rpm fan,not because its too damn noisy,but because of the principle of the thing.

you will find yourself explaining heatpipes to a really good looking chick not quite realizing that you will not be getting laid that night.

You will stay up late thinking about building a truly silent PC case using cinderblocks and about 15 pounds of copper pipe.

With the computer now truely quiet-you will begin to wonder if it's wise to move the refrigerator to the front porch...... :D[/quote]

I think the moment I began to realize just how noisy our lives in general are is that I now have a constant ringing in my ears, sort of like static, no matter how quiet it may be. I believe this is tinnius?

This definitely bothers me as I am only 20 and it isn't like I play my music loud even..sigh :cry:

Dish
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Post by Dish » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:12 am

Sounds like tinnitus yeah.

I've had it for nearly 10 years. Was really hard in the beginning but now I barely think about it at all. I think it has gotten better even, but it might just be that I simply have gotten better at ignoring it.

I've found that having something with a slight noise on when you sleep can help you not focusing on the ringing in your ears.

sry for off topic

-tito-
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Post by -tito- » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:46 am

It wasn't off topic. Now that you mention it when music is playing in the background I am able to ignore it much easier than "absolute" silence. I just never paid any attention to it. And it more than likely hasn't gotten better but instead you have learned to ignore it. Our brains are odd like that :wink:

Dish
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Post by Dish » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:20 pm

Doh! Misssed that it was your thread to begin with. Thought i followed a sidetrack with the tinnitus discussion. ^^

Anyways.
I believe you're right about me being better at ignoring it, however I do feel that even when I try and listen really hard it seems like it has actually gotten better.
My theory is that my body subconsciously has learned to filter out the sound more than me having learned to ignore it.
Only backup i have to this theory though is that with all the blood running through/near the ears there should be a constant waterfall soundtrack to our lives. Since that sound is filtered out why shouldn't tinnitus possibly be dealt with the same way.
Our brains sure are odd, don't know what's the reason i'm not as bothered by it anymore but I sure am happy about it. Was really hard on me a while back.

Only thing i can say about it, hard as it may sound, is try not to think about it. (Except when going to concerts/nightclubs or working in loud environments. There are good ear plugs that doesn't screw up the sound but rather filter out unwanted noise.)

It sure has lead me to think alot more about the noise in my environment and one of the main sources right now is my computer. >.<

Luckily there are places like spcr!

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