Okay Mini-ITX People... need your input!

[quid246]

Have been seriously thinking about building a Mini-ITX system as a general internet machine, with occasional use of Photoshop and a couple web design applications.

I am not well-versed in Mini-ITX technology, so here I am, looking for your opinions. The important part is that the system has to fanless... Dead Silent, hopefully no buzzing or hums from this baby.

Here is my requirements/wishes...

*TOTALLY FANLESS*
CPU speed 1-1.2 Ghz
1G+ RAM Capacity
80 Gig or so HD (as quiet as possible)
1 Lan Port
MB Has to be usable for possible future conversion to PVR
1 PCI Expansion Port (for possible future capture card)
No CD/DVD-ROM needed capability needed
Case, the smaller the better... though with fanless you have to give some breathing space
Power Supply - I'm guessing bricks are typically the way to go for fanless, but if not enlighten me.

And of course, try and do this for as inexpensive as possible.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[qviri]

Okay. Your biggest issue is the CPU.

When you want mini-ITX, you basically get to choose between VIA and Intel Pentium M CPUs.

VIAs are, in general, slow. The fastest clock speed is around 1.3 GHz, however, a poster here (Isaac Kuo I think?) commented that a 800 MHz VIA feels about the same speed or slower than his 433 MHz Celeron. You can probably extrapolate by yourself. I would not be interested in finding out how fast (or slow) Photoshop will run on these. Also, at higher speeds the heat advantage that VIA traditionally has diminishes. If you're getting a gig of RAM, you most likely don't want a VIA.

Pentium M. There are benchmarks around the internet, from what I remember the slowest-clocked chips at around 1.3 GHz easily beat other Intel CPUs at 2 GHz. Heat output is pretty damn nice, and even lower when idle thanks to SpeedStep. This comes with a hefty price tag, though. Think $250 for just the CPU.

Pentium 3s would be an option, since the Coppermine and Tualatin cores run fairly cool and offer adequate performance, but you're going to have massive trouble sourcing a socket 370 mini-ITX motherboard.

You need to cool the CPU somehow. No mini-ITX case can hold a heatsink big enough to comfortably passively cool a Pentium M over extended periods of time. You'll need either an undervolted 80mm fan (I know you said fanless, but a good fan will be next to inaudible in your operator position), or a case that cools from its sides by using heatpipes. Google "hush technologies" for the general idea, I think SPCR has a review or two of their systems.

For the hard drive, any 5400rpm notebook (2.5") drive is going to survive entombed in an enclosure, so no additional cooling is required. I would personally recommend a 80 gig Samsung, MP0804H. It is as quiet as hard drives get without going solid-state.

I think Aris on these forums just recently built a Pentium M-based mini-ITX system. Maybe he will be able to chime in with some advice.

[MikeC]

The VIA EN12000E-LVDS is a fanless C7-based mini-ITX board. It is probably the fastest stock fanless m-ITX board available today. It has a massive integrated HS, as pictured in SPCR's sample below (review pending). In a suitable case, it should work fine fanless.



For everything you mention except Photoshop, this will feel as fast as most PCs. Photoshop responsiveness will depend on just how big the files are and what you try to do with them. It will get sluggish compared to current Intel/AMD machines, but whether this is important depends on you, obviously.

Faster performance can be had with Pentium M/Celetron socket 479 m-ITX boards (from MSI, DFI, AOpen & others) but they will be a lot more $$$ and they probably cannot be run fanless because there is no room for any HS big enough to be run fanless.

Check www.mini-itx.com -- the web site for all things mITX, and also a store.

[MikeC]

On the other hand, unless you are hell-bent on the small size, you can probably run any number of AMD CPU systems fanless -- selected Turion 64 and Sempron on socket 754 boards w/ big HS & a fanless PSU in an appropriate case; even A64s on 754 and 939 boards. The trick is in undervolting w/in CnQ or similar. This can be cheaper (if you want it so) and performance will be faster than any VIA mITX. See Turion 64 on the Desktop and Desktop CPU Power Survey, April 2006

[qviri]

The VIA EN12000E-LVDS is a fanless C7-based mini-ITX board. It is probably the fastest stock fanless m-ITX board available today. It has a massive integrated HS, as pictured in SPCR's sample below (review pending). In a suitable case, it should work fine fanless.

Hi Mike. Great to see VIA are still hard at work making us believe they want to make their CPUs a desktop platform. Do you have any information about this board's availability and pricing? A casual Google failed to bring up any North American retailers.

[MikeC]

Do you have any information about this board's availability and pricing? A casual Google failed to bring up any North American retailers.

That's always been the problem with VIA's EPIA boards, at least in North Am.

[qviri]

You'd think they'd ensure proper retail channels first, then start sending out review samples. Then again, maybe they're playing hard to get.

[quid246]

C7's... can they be ordered anywhere yet... most places I look still carry C3 product.

[IsaacKuo]

a poster here (Isaac Kuo I think?) commented that a 800 MHz VIA feels about the same speed or slower than his 433 MHz Celeron.

Yes, that's me...but it's a purely unscientific subjective "feel", that might have more to do with the chipset or graphics drivers than the CPU. The 466Mhz Celeron is all Intel, including i810 onboard graphics; the 800Mhz C3 is all Via. In any case, they're both pretty crummy. I find my wife's 800Mhz P3 to be pretty zippy.

(Oh, it's 466Mhz. Sometimes I get confused and say 433Mhz.)

[fastturtle]

I recently saw a DFI mini-itx board that supports the Pentium-M at http://www.mini-itx.com look under the motherboards. Very sweet and when combined with the Pentium-M/HSF combo one hell of a deal. Of course, if that's too expensive try this setup from Directron of an AMD Geode NX1750 (XP1750) and Biostar Mainboard Combo http://store.yahoo.com/directron/m7vig4comb29.html

[MikeC]

I recently saw a DFI mini-itx board that supports the Pentium-M at http://www.mini-itx.com look under the motherboards. Very sweet and when combined with the Pentium-M/HSF combo one hell of a deal. Of course, if that's too expensive try this setup from Directron of an AMD Geode NX1750 (XP1750) and Biostar Mainboard Combo http://store.yahoo.com/directron/m7vig4comb29.html

P-M is definitely a lot more $$, and AFAIK, the Geode is even slower than the EPIA.