- Case: Antec NSK3400 with 380W PSU
- Motherboard: Asus M2NPV-VM, nForce430
- CPU: AMD Athlon64 X2 4000+ 65 nm Brisbane core
- Cooler: Scythe Ninja Plus
- Memory: Kingston DDR2-533, 2x512MB, CAS 4
- HDD: WD Caviar 2500AAKS, 250GB, SATAII, 16MB cache
- DVDR: NEC AD-7170S, SATA, Black
Budget Linux Development Box
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Budget Linux Development Box
My aim for this system is to get it as silent as possible, but as I'm a student I'll have to mind my budget. I run Linux and most of the time I use the box for surfing (firefox), media (mplayer) and development (vim). Therefore I don't need to have the fastest system on the block:
Last edited by uggedal on Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would suggest another mainboard, like the Gigabyte MA69VM-S2. This sports a newer chipset (the AMD 690V) which runs waaay cooler than the nForce 4. And it's also cheaper (here by 20€). With the money saved, you could almost get another gig of RAM!
And, you're using a very low power CPU. So you might get away with an Arctic Cooling Alpine 64 which would also save another 30 to 40€. If temperature-controlled, the attached fan will barely spin given your usage profile and thus be virtually silent. You are also likely to have to do some modding to the NSK3400 if you want the ninja to fit in there. Running it passively should be no problem, though.
And, you're using a very low power CPU. So you might get away with an Arctic Cooling Alpine 64 which would also save another 30 to 40€. If temperature-controlled, the attached fan will barely spin given your usage profile and thus be virtually silent. You are also likely to have to do some modding to the NSK3400 if you want the ninja to fit in there. Running it passively should be no problem, though.
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protellect
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:57 pm
- Location: Minnesota
I'd also agree on new motherboard; Get something that supports DDR2-800. There are plenty of micro-atx boards that are super cheap and will work excellent for you.
Does that antec case come with a *good* antec power supply? I'm sure that one will server you fine, in either case.
As for cheap quiet fans, I don't think you can beat the 120MM Yate-Loon fans that are 3$ a pop.
Does that antec case come with a *good* antec power supply? I'm sure that one will server you fine, in either case.
As for cheap quiet fans, I don't think you can beat the 120MM Yate-Loon fans that are 3$ a pop.
I'm into budget computing...your proposed system is actually pretty high powered stuff by my standards. None of my machines have more than 512megs of RAM, and I mostly use the relatively heavyweight KDE desktop environment (Debian 4.0 GNU/Linux).
You don't say what sort of development you intend to do. If it's web development, then you don't need anything beyond vim and the web browser, of course. But if you're doing heavy C++ development, then you'll benefit from a fast processor and lots of RAM to maximize compiler performance.
In any case, I think you'll be well served with a Ninja CPU cooler. It's not really so expensive, in the USA at least, and it'll likely still be useful if you upgrade later.
I find that with my systems, a single silent 120mm fan is sufficient to provide cooling airflow for the entire system--but it works best with a heavily customized airflow layout. In particular, with a standard layout, the PSU receives CPU warmed air which requires the fan to run faster to keep the PSU cool enough. If you're not up for heavy customization, the most straightforward solution is to use a standard layout along with a rear case fan. The rear case fan will help pull CPU warmed air out the rear instead of into the PSU.
Assuming you tackle fan noise, the main thing causing noise will be the hard drive. Hard drive noise is where you really need to decide exactly how important "silence" is to you. Because the solutions which are truly silent either cost a lot, or significantly reduce performance, or may significantly reduce hard drive reliability/lifespan. Since you're on a budget, there are really three options:
1) Use a 2.5" drive, which will roughly halve performance (this DOES result in perceivable sluggishness) and will greatly reduce capacity. For silence, even a 2.5" drive needs to be put within an enclosure (I've put together a how-to on making a really cheap 2.5" enclosure).
2) Use a 3.5" drive within an enclosure. Depending on the details of the enclosure, this can be pretty much silent, but at the expense of increasing temperatures. Unlike 2.5" drives, 3.5" drives are NOT engineered with the assumption that they'll be entombed within a laptop. They are NOT designed to survive within the confines of a hot insulated enclosure. Use this option only if you're willing to live with the risks.
or
3) Use a 3.5" drive with a soft suspension, and live with audible whine and seeks. A soft suspension can dramatically reduce hard drive noise, while still allowing for cooling airflow. This is by far the most popular option here on SPCR, even though it doesn't result in a truly "silent" computer.
Ultimately, I settled on a different solution--diskless netbooting (I have put together a how-to on setting this up with Debian). However, this requires an extra computer as the server. Assuming that as a typical student, this server would be in the same room as your workstation, it doesn't actually solve any noise issues at all. For me, it's the most economical solution only because I have lots of cheap computers slapped together from old/junked parts.
You don't say what sort of development you intend to do. If it's web development, then you don't need anything beyond vim and the web browser, of course. But if you're doing heavy C++ development, then you'll benefit from a fast processor and lots of RAM to maximize compiler performance.
In any case, I think you'll be well served with a Ninja CPU cooler. It's not really so expensive, in the USA at least, and it'll likely still be useful if you upgrade later.
I find that with my systems, a single silent 120mm fan is sufficient to provide cooling airflow for the entire system--but it works best with a heavily customized airflow layout. In particular, with a standard layout, the PSU receives CPU warmed air which requires the fan to run faster to keep the PSU cool enough. If you're not up for heavy customization, the most straightforward solution is to use a standard layout along with a rear case fan. The rear case fan will help pull CPU warmed air out the rear instead of into the PSU.
Assuming you tackle fan noise, the main thing causing noise will be the hard drive. Hard drive noise is where you really need to decide exactly how important "silence" is to you. Because the solutions which are truly silent either cost a lot, or significantly reduce performance, or may significantly reduce hard drive reliability/lifespan. Since you're on a budget, there are really three options:
1) Use a 2.5" drive, which will roughly halve performance (this DOES result in perceivable sluggishness) and will greatly reduce capacity. For silence, even a 2.5" drive needs to be put within an enclosure (I've put together a how-to on making a really cheap 2.5" enclosure).
2) Use a 3.5" drive within an enclosure. Depending on the details of the enclosure, this can be pretty much silent, but at the expense of increasing temperatures. Unlike 2.5" drives, 3.5" drives are NOT engineered with the assumption that they'll be entombed within a laptop. They are NOT designed to survive within the confines of a hot insulated enclosure. Use this option only if you're willing to live with the risks.
or
3) Use a 3.5" drive with a soft suspension, and live with audible whine and seeks. A soft suspension can dramatically reduce hard drive noise, while still allowing for cooling airflow. This is by far the most popular option here on SPCR, even though it doesn't result in a truly "silent" computer.
Ultimately, I settled on a different solution--diskless netbooting (I have put together a how-to on setting this up with Debian). However, this requires an extra computer as the server. Assuming that as a typical student, this server would be in the same room as your workstation, it doesn't actually solve any noise issues at all. For me, it's the most economical solution only because I have lots of cheap computers slapped together from old/junked parts.
Don't overlook the possibilities of an eSATA setup-which moves the main HDD out of the box. You can enclose an eSATA enclosure in a wooden box somewhere that's a lot less audible-and splice in a low RPM fan. If the remote location has some airflow-a passive external that has some heat dissipation is good-set the wole thing on something soft.
Some Linux flavors can run on a 8 gb flash drive....or less. You'd still need that full size HDD-but it might be much less active.
Be sure to look for the experiments Felger Carbon and Bluefront have done with "Big Fan" cases. A 220 mm fan at 400 rpm is possible-and quiet. There's cases at $50 or less with one. Since it's a side fan-the Aerocool Dominator lines up better than a Ninja. It's a "tabletop" HS rather than a tower.
FSP/Fortran 300w Green PSU is low $ and efficient.
Brisbane X2's come in 3600 and 4000-not 3800. The price on the 3600 is a winner. You could OC a 3600 up to = a 4000 and you'd have about the heat of the stock 4000.
You also can let Cool + Quiet work-or undervolt. I think that mobo allows unders to 1 v or less.
Just about any case can be padded inside-even outside.
Some Linux flavors can run on a 8 gb flash drive....or less. You'd still need that full size HDD-but it might be much less active.
Be sure to look for the experiments Felger Carbon and Bluefront have done with "Big Fan" cases. A 220 mm fan at 400 rpm is possible-and quiet. There's cases at $50 or less with one. Since it's a side fan-the Aerocool Dominator lines up better than a Ninja. It's a "tabletop" HS rather than a tower.
FSP/Fortran 300w Green PSU is low $ and efficient.
Brisbane X2's come in 3600 and 4000-not 3800. The price on the 3600 is a winner. You could OC a 3600 up to = a 4000 and you'd have about the heat of the stock 4000.
You also can let Cool + Quiet work-or undervolt. I think that mobo allows unders to 1 v or less.
Just about any case can be padded inside-even outside.
It certainly is a while since I built my last DIY system. But what about dual-channel mode? I remember this was all the rage in the Pentium 4 days. Does not the Athlon 64 X2s support this?qviri wrote: I'd suggest one 1 GB stick for RAM... Shouldn't be much more expensive if at all, and leaves you with more room to upgrade.
I'm all for this new chipset but one requirement that I failed to include earlier was for a DVI connection. I've been reading up on this chipset and it does not support DVI per the specification. The AMD 960G chipset supports this (though it's optional). Any recommendations for a m-ATX 960G board with DVI? Found these while searching some local web-shops:mexell wrote: I would suggest another mainboard, like the Gigabyte MA69VM-S2. This sports a newer chipset (the AMD 690V) which runs waaay cooler than the nForce 4. And it's also cheaper (here by 20€). With the money saved, you could almost get another gig of RAM!
- Asus M2A-VM
- Asus M2A-VM/HDMI
- MSI K9AGM2-FIH
- Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H
I'll have to look into the height of the Ninja and the internal with of the NSK3400. Anyone who owns an NSK3*00 and has a measure of the internal width?mexell wrote: And, you're using a very low power CPU. So you might get away with an Arctic Cooling Alpine 64 which would also save another 30 to 40€. If temperature-controlled, the attached fan will barely spin given your usage profile and thus be virtually silent. You are also likely to have to do some modding to the NSK3400 if you want the ninja to fit in there. Running it passively should be no problem, though.
Not sure, a search only reveal it's a 380W PSU and based on images of the case it should have a bottom mounted 120mm fan.protellect wrote: Does that antec case come with a *good* antec power supply? I'm sure that one will server you fine, in either case.
Sadly those are not available here in Norway. I think I'll just solder on a resistor to the supplied 120mm case fan if it's to loud.protellect wrote: As for cheap quiet fans, I don't think you can beat the 120MM Yate-Loon fans that are 3$ a pop.
I mostly program in interpreted languages so compiling time should be of no concern. Making unit tests run as fast as possible is of high importance to me and these tend to be somewhat CPU bound. I do mostly develop web apps but I actually don't use the web browser much apart for when I'm tweaking the presentation layer (CSS). I mostly tend to do BDD (behavior driven development) with rSpec in Ruby on Rails (and sometimes Merb and Camping).IsaacKuo wrote: You don't say what sort of development you intend to do. If it's web development, then you don't need anything beyond vim and the web browser, of course. But if you're doing heavy C++ development, then you'll benefit from a fast processor and lots of RAM to maximize compiler performance.
AFAIK this is the standard layout provided by the NSK3400 case.IsaacKuo wrote: I find that with my systems, a single silent 120mm fan is sufficient to provide cooling airflow for the entire system--but it works best with a heavily customized airflow layout. In particular, with a standard layout, the PSU receives CPU warmed air which requires the fan to run faster to keep the PSU cool enough. If you're not up for heavy customization, the most straightforward solution is to use a standard layout along with a rear case fan. The rear case fan will help pull CPU warmed air out the rear instead of into the PSU.
I think I'll have to go for the 3rd option. In daily use the largest bottleneck of my system is the speed of my HDD (I'm on a laptop now).IsaacKuo wrote: ssuming you tackle fan noise, the main thing causing noise will be the hard drive. Hard drive noise is where you really need to decide exactly how important "silence" is to you. Because the solutions which are truly silent either cost a lot, or significantly reduce performance, or may significantly reduce hard drive reliability/lifespan. Since you're on a budget, there are really three options:
1) Use a 2.5" drive, which will roughly halve performance (this DOES result in perceivable sluggishness) and will greatly reduce capacity. For silence, even a 2.5" drive needs to be put within an enclosure (I've put together a how-to on making a really cheap 2.5" enclosure).
2) Use a 3.5" drive within an enclosure. Depending on the details of the enclosure, this can be pretty much silent, but at the expense of increasing temperatures. Unlike 2.5" drives, 3.5" drives are NOT engineered with the assumption that they'll be entombed within a laptop. They are NOT designed to survive within the confines of a hot insulated enclosure. Use this option only if you're willing to live with the risks.
or
3) Use a 3.5" drive with a soft suspension, and live with audible whine and seeks. A soft suspension can dramatically reduce hard drive noise, while still allowing for cooling airflow. This is by far the most popular option here on SPCR, even though it doesn't result in a truly "silent" computer.
Yeah, the server would have to be in the same room as my workstation. I have a server, but It's located 330km away. I don't want to buy a perfectly fine system and ruin the experience with the latency of my internet connection.IsaacKuo wrote: Ultimately, I settled on a different solution--diskless netbooting (I have put together a how-to on setting this up with Debian). However, this requires an extra computer as the server. Assuming that as a typical student, this server would be in the same room as your workstation, it doesn't actually solve any noise issues at all. For me, it's the most economical solution only because I have lots of cheap computers slapped together from old/junked parts.
I'll have to look into that.ronrem wrote: Don't overlook the possibilities of an eSATA setup-which moves the main HDD out of the box. You can enclose an eSATA enclosure in a wooden box somewhere that's a lot less audible-and splice in a low RPM fan. If the remote location has some airflow-a passive external that has some heat dissipation is good-set the wole thing on something soft.
Actually every Linux flavor can run off flash drives. There are problems with sequential performance but random access is typically much better than mechanical hard drives. And then there's the problem with a limited number of writes. This can be solved either by buying quite expensive flash drives with HDD controllers or some hackery by mounting write intensive partitions onto memory file systems.ronrem wrote: Some Linux flavors can run on a 8 gb flash drive....or less. You'd still need that full size HDD-but it might be much less active.
I'll have to look into this.ronrem wrote: Be sure to look for the experiments Felger Carbon and Bluefront have done with "Big Fan" cases. A 220 mm fan at 400 rpm is possible-and quiet. There's cases at $50 or less with one. Since it's a side fan-the Aerocool Dominator lines up better than a Ninja. It's a "tabletop" HS rather than a tower.
Think I'll test the stock PSU first, but thanks for the tipronrem wrote: FSP/Fortran 300w Green PSU is low $ and efficient.
Sorry, typo. I meant the 4000+. I would go for the 3600+ but it's currently out of stock at my preferred retailer.ronrem wrote: Brisbane X2's come in 3600 and 4000-not 3800. The price on the 3600 is a winner. You could OC a 3600 up to = a 4000 and you'd have about the heat of the stock 4000.
I'll definitely look into undervolting as I'm typing this from a undervolted Pentium M.ronrem wrote: You also can let Cool + Quiet work-or undervolt. I think that mobo allows unders to 1 v or less.
I'll look into damping after I have the system assembled.ronrem wrote: Just about any case can be padded inside-even outside.
Thanks everyone for their input. Truly helpful
If anyone have any insights to my previous questions feel free to participate!Did some research and it seems the Ninja will fit inside the NSK3400 according to this thread.
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bonestonne
- Posts: 1839
- Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:10 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
do some research and make sure all the hardware is linux compatible, and i'd suggest not using a 64bit Linux. i run an x64 Ubuntu, and yes, it runs great, but 1) audio was very hard to set up 2) getting adobe flash player isn't the easiest thing and 3) it doesn't always play nice with your hardware.
i have an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, and when i look at how to configure it, i get lost...its a bit tricky, i just stick with onboard for it.
i have an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, and when i look at how to configure it, i get lost...its a bit tricky, i just stick with onboard for it.
Sure, I always check the Linux compatibility of hardware before I purchase. As for 64bit Linux I think I have a somewhat different opinion. There is some performance benefits for running x64 (even with less than 4GB of ram). 32bit is fine for the normal Ubuntu/SUSE/Fedora users which don't want their hands to get dirty. The Flash binary only works running 32bit, but one can actually run 64bit Firefox with it. As for audio and 64bit I haven't tried that yet.bonestonne wrote:do some research and make sure all the hardware is linux compatible, and i'd suggest not using a 64bit Linux. i run an x64 Ubuntu, and yes, it runs great, but 1) audio was very hard to set up 2) getting adobe flash player isn't the easiest thing and 3) it doesn't always play nice with your hardware.
I ordered all the parts today:
I opted for a quality silent PSU since the case came without one.
I went with the nForce 430 based mobo instead of the AMD 690G since the former should outperform the latter in every aspect except 3D and energy consumption. But the main differentiator was the buggyness of ATI Linux drivers compared to Nvida's drivers.
I also swapped out the Brisbane 3600 for the new more energy efficient BE's.
Lastly I added a few buck to get some reasonably good memory, bought a monitor (if I had a bit more cash at hand I would have gone 24" @ 1920.1200) and well supported PCI WLAN card.
Can't wait to get a hold of the parts and assemble this thing:) Lastly: are there any guides for how one goes about suspending the HDD?
- Case: Antec NSK4000
- PSU: Seasonic S12II 330W
- Mobo: Asus M2NPV-VM
- CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 BE-2300
- Cooler: Scythe Ninja Plus
- RAM: GeIL DDR2 PC6400 Ultra 1 GB
- HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 250 GB
- WLAN: D-Link DWL-G510 PCI
- DVD: Samsung SH-S183A
- LCD: Samsung SyncMaster 205BW
I opted for a quality silent PSU since the case came without one.
I went with the nForce 430 based mobo instead of the AMD 690G since the former should outperform the latter in every aspect except 3D and energy consumption. But the main differentiator was the buggyness of ATI Linux drivers compared to Nvida's drivers.
I also swapped out the Brisbane 3600 for the new more energy efficient BE's.
Lastly I added a few buck to get some reasonably good memory, bought a monitor (if I had a bit more cash at hand I would have gone 24" @ 1920.1200) and well supported PCI WLAN card.
Can't wait to get a hold of the parts and assemble this thing:) Lastly: are there any guides for how one goes about suspending the HDD?
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matt_garman
- *Lifetime Patron*
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:35 am
- Location: Chicago, Ill., USA
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I wish I'd have noticed this thread before you placed the order. For the motherboard, I would recommend the BIOSTAR TForce TF7025-M2. It's based on the nvidia 7025; performance should be as good or better than the 6150/430, and power consumption on par with the AMD 690G.uggedal wrote:I ordered all the parts today:
I went with the nForce 430 based mobo instead of the AMD 690G since the former should outperform the latter in every aspect except 3D and energy consumption. But the main differentiator was the buggyness of ATI Linux drivers compared to Nvida's drivers.
- Mobo: Asus M2NPV-VM
Matt
I knew about the new 7025/50 based chipsets from nvidia but sadly non of the motherboards with it were available from my vendors here in Norway.matt_garman wrote: I wish I'd have noticed this thread before you placed the order. For the motherboard, I would recommend the BIOSTAR TForce TF7025-M2. It's based on the nvidia 7025; performance should be as good or better than the 6150/430, and power consumption on par with the AMD 690G.