Updating the workstation, need some pointers

[fnordpojk]

Gurus and gurettes,

Right now I've got an Opteron 170 on an ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe, and since I do a lot of video encoding, it's starting to show it's age. The system is built to be as silent as possible, starting with an Antec P180B (with nice little SPCR logo), a Zalman Reserator 1 Plus and an MSI passively cooled 7950GT.

I'm looking to replace CPU / mobo with an Intel solution (X38 DDR2 and a Yorkfield Core 2, probably the Q9550, plus 2x2GB PC6400) in a couple of months, but I probably need to start planning now.

I'm keeping my graphics card since I don't do much 3D.

I'm going to need a motherboard that is passively cooled yet doesn't need more airflow than what the drive cage fan and the top fan (push/pull) of the P180 can generate. This I've come to understand means a fairly hefty heatsink/heatpipe combo. Any recommendations?

I have a Thermaltake TWV 500W PSU which is anything but quiet - probably the noisiest part of the computer. The reason I bought it is because it has a very good modular setup - every cable is modular, even the ATX cable. Question is, are there quieter PSUs that are completely modular (the P180 is a bit difficult to find good PSUs for) or should I do some surgery and switch out the fan of the Thermaltake? If so, can anyone recommend a good brand of fans? Last time I had any kind of idea about what the market looked like, Papst and Everflow were good, but that was in 2005 when I built this system..

Since I do a lot of disk intensive work I could really use some better disk performance than what I'm getting from my Samsung Spinpoint T166's. They are lovely when it comes to noise levels but I need more oomph.. My question is, are the Raptors out of the question in a quiet computer? I don't need lots of space (what I really need is a very fast system drive), so the Hitachi 1TB drive would just be a waste, even though I've heard it's pretty quiet and blazingly fast.

Also, I'm wondering if the current pump of the Reserator will be able to keep up with the Q9550. I'm already at pretty high temperatures at full load, and my machine spends a lot of time at 100% CPU utilization. It feels like the Reserator should be able to dissipate more heat if the flow was increased. Any ideas?

I think that's it. A bit ramling, but these are early ideas, and exactly why I need your help. Thanks in advance.

[Zsan]

For PSU's, there's the great Corsair line, well-respected on here and modular. HX520 and HX5(something) from the top of my head. They're customised rebrands of Seasonic PSU's, combining the modularity and the silent fan from one seris and another.

Disk intensive work? Have you considered adding another T166/Using your current ones in RAID? Surely you can't beat the performance/price/sound ratio on that very easily.

Nexus fans are cheap and very good, the current top-of-the-world line. They're called Real Silent (120 mm) and come in funky orange and clean-looking silver.

GA-X38-DQ6 by Gigabyte might be the board for you. It's got a very nice-looking Heatpipe solution for cooling itself and Gigabyte is well-respected generally.

I'm no exert, I simply repeated the words most people use here I've owned zero of these products, though I have ordered half of them (:P)

[fnordpojk]

Ah, I definitely like the looks of the HX520, but I'm worried about the length of the ATX cable. The P180 demands some snaking around. Guess I'll have to measure my current cable and see how long it has to be.

I've thought about RAID, but that would mean getting a decent hardware RAID card (I run a bunch of operating systems, Windows-only driver based fake-RAID won't cut it) and that costs about the same as a Raptor.. plus there aren't any good cards for PCIe x1, so I'd have to run it off PCI, which limits me to older cards.. well, it's a mess.

Thanks for the tip on the Nexuses, never heard of them!

The X38-DQ6 is one of the boards I've looked at, but it has one problem; it uses a Realtek LAN chipset. Why oh why can't the manufacturers put a decent Intel network chipset on there when they're already buying Intel ICH/MCH? I might have to live with that, though.

Thank you for the advice - the input is much appreciated!

Anyone else with help or ideas?

[Cerb]

Fans: get Scythe Slipstream fans! Way superior to the Nexus, just a little new for the last fan roundup.

Disk intensive work: try waiting for the new Samsungs to get reviewed. The 1TB version is giving nice bandwidth, and reports of noise are positive, but nothing like a SPCR review, yet. Raptors may or may not be good, but some people are using them in quiet PCs. I haven't heard any newer-gen Raptors.

If you are limited by disk speed more than CPU speed, RAID might not be a bad option--but yes, expensive. PCI-e is not a problem--you've got a spare 16x (X38 mobo)!

If you don't do much 3D, do you need the 7950 (IE, do you use video editing software that will use it?)? Is it passively cooled? If not, replacing it with a lesser passive card would cut down on the noise. There are several nice GPUs that you can get with good passive cooling, like HD2400, 8600(GT,GTS), 8400GS, 7600GS (harder to find nowadays, though), and 7300GT (excuse for nVidia to get rid of 7 series chips, methinks).

As far as mobos go, there's very little to worry about in terms of cooling them, as long as you have a case fan or two. It's cooling the CPU, as well, with the big old heatpipes in the way. But, if your Resorator is working out well for you, you've just got to make sure the block will fit in there OK. If it will (and it likely will), then you'll have a situation in which the big fancy heatpipes might actually be beneficial.

Also, there's no real reason to worry with the X38 chipset for performance. A P35 with a 1333MHz C2Q will perform as well; but the best PCI-e you'll get is 16x+4x, where X38 can do two 16x and a few 1x on top of them. With RAM prices as they are, the best reason to go X38 is more PCI-e lanes (good DDR3 performance is fine for super OC and benchmark junkies). Load right up on DDR2, maybe even going with 8GB (2 2x2GB kits).

Finally, CPU: don't get the Q9550, at least not at Intel's projected release price!
Q9550 2.86GHz $530
Q9450 2.66GHz $316
Q9300 2.5GHz $266 (cheaper than the current 1066Mhz 2.4GHz)

That's a 7% CPU speed increase for 67% more money vs. the 9450, and 14% faster for 100% more money v. the 9300. The 9300 is an even better value, but the Q9450 looks like a good sweet spot. The savings could go towards the other 4GB of RAM you won't need for a few years, or maybe a nice low-end RAID controller (3ware?). Or, it could just stay in your bank account. Either way, the Q9550 is way too high, and probably just to say, "Ha ha, you can't get a Phenom that'll match this!"

[fnordpojk]

Fans: get Scythe Slipstream fans! Way superior to the Nexus, just a little new for the last fan roundup.

I'm not quite sure if those are available in Sweden at a reasonable price point, but I'll look into it. Thanks.

Disk intensive work: try waiting for the new Samsungs to get reviewed. The 1TB version is giving nice bandwidth, and reports of noise are positive, but nothing like a SPCR review, yet. Raptors may or may not be good, but some people are using them in quiet PCs. I haven't heard any newer-gen Raptors.

I read some reviews of the Samsung drives and they weren't very positive. Also, 1TB for a system drive is a bit insane, and what I need is good random access AND raw transfer rate, so more drives = good for performance, but unfortunately bad for acoustics.. Three well-performing, silent drives would be the sweet spot (one system, one data, one temporary storage).

A Raptor 150GB for the system and two other drives - but which drives?

If you are limited by disk speed more than CPU speed, RAID might not be a bad option--but yes, expensive. PCI-e is not a problem--you've got a spare 16x (X38 mobo)!

Oh, right, X38.. I was stuck in thinking I only had x1/x4. Yeah, then a nice 3Ware 9660 would work fine. They do know how to charge for their stuff though..

If you don't do much 3D, do you need the 7950 (IE, do you use video editing software that will use it?)? Is it passively cooled? If not, replacing it with a lesser passive card would cut down on the noise. There are several nice GPUs that you can get with good passive cooling, like HD2400, 8600(GT,GTS), 8400GS, 7600GS (harder to find nowadays, though), and 7300GT (excuse for nVidia to get rid of 7 series chips, methinks).

It is passively cooled, so there's no noise problem from the 7950. I play the occasional match of World in Conflict (and I'm a bit of a sucker for the desktop cube in Beryl/Compiz ) so I still need some 3D performance. I used to have a passive 7600GS in the machine, but moved that to the HTPC when I built it.

As far as mobos go, there's very little to worry about in terms of cooling them, as long as you have a case fan or two. It's cooling the CPU, as well, with the big old heatpipes in the way. But, if your Resorator is working out well for you, you've just got to make sure the block will fit in there OK. If it will (and it likely will), then you'll have a situation in which the big fancy heatpipes might actually be beneficial.

I've read several reviews that state that if you're running water cooling (that is, no downward-facing airflow) you will need "extra cooling" on the heatsinks, but I've never heard anyone spell out just exactly what that "extra cooling" means. You're saying case airflow should be enough? Great!

The Reserator is a very very nice plug-and-play watercooling solution, but I might need to replace the pump to get enough flow if the quadcores run as hot as they say. Penryn should help though.

Also, there's no real reason to worry with the X38 chipset for performance. A P35 with a 1333MHz C2Q will perform as well; but the best PCI-e you'll get is 16x+4x, where X38 can do two 16x and a few 1x on top of them. With RAM prices as they are, the best reason to go X38 is more PCI-e lanes (good DDR3 performance is fine for super OC and benchmark junkies). Load right up on DDR2, maybe even going with 8GB (2 2x2GB kits).

Yeah, the only reason I'm going X38 is for the PCIe 2.0, and DDR3 is just completely out of the picture right now. 8GB is tempting, but I'm not going to run a 64-bit Windows since the application isn't 64-bit, and so there's not much point in that right now.

Finally, CPU: don't get the Q9550, at least not at Intel's projected release price!
Q9550 2.86GHz $530
Q9450 2.66GHz $316
Q9300 2.5GHz $266 (cheaper than the current 1066Mhz 2.4GHz)

Youch! I wasn't aware of the price gap.

That's a 7% CPU speed increase for 67% more money vs. the 9450, and 14% faster for 100% more money v. the 9300. The 9300 is an even better value, but the Q9450 looks like a good sweet spot. The savings could go towards the other 4GB of RAM you won't need for a few years, or maybe a nice low-end RAID controller (3ware?). Or, it could just stay in your bank account. Either way, the Q9550 is way too high, and probably just to say, "Ha ha, you can't get a Phenom that'll match this!"

The application I'm running is really only optimized for two threads (and a frameserver on top of that), so the reason why I was looking at the 9550 was that the faster the individual core, the better. But that price definitely invites me to reconsider..

Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

[Cerb]

Fans: get Scythe Slipstream fans! Way superior to the Nexus, just a little new for the last fan roundup.

I'm not quite sure if those are available in Sweden at a reasonable price point, but I'll look into it. Thanks.

If not, bummer, and the Nexus certainly are good.

I've read several reviews that state that if you're running water cooling (that is, no downward-facing airflow) you will need "extra cooling" on the heatsinks, but I've never heard anyone spell out just exactly what that "extra cooling" means. You're saying case airflow should be enough? Great!

Yes, especially with the heatpipe coolers.

With normal air cooling, you're cooling everything with case air flow to some degree, and have enough cables and other obstacles to help make some turbulence, and the stuff gets cooled alright, as long as you make sure it's getting some air. With an air-cooled CPU, GPU, some case fans...it all gets around, and having some bare ICs is no biggie.

Those big heatpipe monsters on the mobos get in the way, and make parts that should run cool hot. Your south bridge is almost as hot as the north bridge that is almost as hot as the voltage regulator ICs! With a quad, especially, that might be bad for the long-term. Those regulator ICs are made to run pretty hot and still be OK, for long durations.

But...you're not adding much in the way of moving air around the CPU socket where most of that is, so the heatpipes making the whole assembly one big heatsink for it all very well might be a good thing. You should definitely keep track of your temps early on (mainly NB temp) while the CPUs are heavily loaded, but I would be very confident that it would be cooled very well with decent case air flow in a good case.

The same concerns are there as with air cooling, but without air CPU cooling, the previous method of cooling those regulator ICs well may be gone, and is definitely diminished a bit. They can typically run hot a long time, but just bare, there's that chance that they may get too hot, without consistent cooling (usually offered by the case exhaust, CPU, or PSU fan).

The application I'm running is really only optimized for two threads (and a frameserver on top of that), so the reason why I was looking at the 9550 was that the faster the individual core, the better. But that price definitely invites me to reconsider.

If you can only really use two cores, consider the E8400, which will come out at 3GHz, but under $200. The 3.16 has a hefty price increase for so little gain, like the Q9550. Could be a hair more saving towards a RAID 0 of T166 500GBs, maybe

OTOH, if you're going to be multitasking while doing video crunching, or other parts of the process can use other cores while said app is hogging two, a quad wouldn't hurt.

Here's a page from a quick Googling:
http://techgage.com/article/intel_core_ ... e_preview/
While where you are won't reflect that exactly, the prices should be similar, relative to each other part, barring supply issues and taxes that could skew them.

edit: my inner grammar nazi hates this post with a passion.

[fnordpojk]

But...you're not adding much in the way of moving air around the CPU socket where most of that is, so the heatpipes making the whole assembly one big heatsink for it all very well might be a good thing. You should definitely keep track of your temps early on (mainly NB temp) while the CPUs are heavily loaded, but I would be very confident that it would be cooled very well with decent case air flow in a good case.

The same concerns are there as with air cooling, but without air CPU cooling, the previous method of cooling those regulator ICs well may be gone, and is definitely diminished a bit. They can typically run hot a long time, but just bare, there's that chance that they may get too hot, without consistent cooling (usually offered by the case exhaust, CPU, or PSU fan).

It's a P180 with top fan and front fans, so the airflow should be over the graphics card and CPU area. I need to borrow a thermal camera, methinks..

OTOH, if you're going to be multitasking while doing video crunching, or other parts of the process can use other cores while said app is hogging two, a quad wouldn't hurt.

Yeah, I usually use the computer while it's encoding, which is why I wanted a quad in the first place. I can saturate two cores pretty easily.

While where you are won't reflect that exactly, the prices should be similar, relative to each other part, barring supply issues and taxes that could skew them.

The relatives should be about the same, at least. The 9450 does look like a very good deal.

[fnordpojk]

Okay, so I've now started preparing by investing in:

* The best fans I could find at a reasonable price - Scythe S-Flex SFF21D. They push almost the same amount of air (33,5 CFM) at 8dBa that my current Antec TriCools do (39 CFM) at 25dBa!

* A new waterblock - the Zalman WB5. I've lost the S775 mounting details for my current waterblock, so it was a "might as well" situation.

Add to that a bunch of mounting grommets and we're looking at a significantly quieter system.

Next step will be the PSU, and I'm mostly looking at the Corsair HX520W at the moment. Modular plus silent equals good.

I'm also debating whether to wait until after Christmas to get insane amounts of RAM (8GB DDR2 seems to be the sweet spot) and take a chance on the prices not rising, or buy now and shelve it until the system is built.. can't make up my mind.

[smilingcrow]

Do you intend over-clocking the CPU massively? I assume you are otherwise water-cooling seems overkill for a Penryn. I ran a Q6600 G0 at 3GHz silently with no effort. The 45nm quads are even better although there are rumours that they aren’t being released until March and not January. Who knows!

[fnordpojk]

Do you intend over-clocking the CPU massively? I assume you are otherwise water-cooling seems overkill for a Penryn.

I'm watercooling because a) I've already got the setup and b) it's silent.

[smilingcrow]

I'm watercooling because a) I've already got the setup and b) it's silent.

I didn’t realise water cooling was silent I thought the pump would be noisy.

[fnordpojk]

I'm watercooling because a) I've already got the setup and b) it's silent.

I didn’t realise water cooling was silent I thought the pump would be noisy.

No, the first post states I'm using the Zalman Reserator 1 Plus. The pump is virtually silent.

[seraphyn]

Ah, I definitely like the looks of the HX520, but I'm worried about the length of the ATX cable. The P180 demands some snaking around. Guess I'll have to measure my current cable and see how long it has to be.

The HX520 + P180 goes together like bread and butter. I currently use both in my main rig.

[fnordpojk]

Crap.

This puts a large crimp in my plans for a 3Ware 9690SA:

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=187232

..so now I'm looking at the ASUS P5E WS PRO instead, with a nice 9550SXU instead. Cheaper, too, though it'll probably even out in the end since the ASUS board is more expensive than the Gigabyte board.

seraphyn: Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!