Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source

oceanobsession · Post by **oceanobsession** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:45 pm

Can anyone help with advice on components to use for a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source thanks oceanobsession

N7SC · Post by **N7SC** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:50 pm

Though I did not start out to build what you call a "High Performance Digital Stereo Source," I kind of wound up with one.

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (overclocked to 3.0GHz, watercooled)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Memory: 2 Gigabytes of Kingston RAM
Hard Drive: Seagate 320GB SATA II (3GB/sec) ES series

I currently use the motherboard's built in Realtek Azalea 888 sound system. Sooner or later will upgrade to an M-Audio Audiophile 192 card (which can digitize at 192KHz and 24 bits). Have heard that the built in sound systems can be noisy due to the analog signal having to travel around on the relatively noisy motherboard. The add-in cards digitize the sound before it gets sent to the M/B, so not so much noise exposure for the signal.

Software: Adobe Audition 2.0

Basically I would suggest a Core 2 Duo processor, 2.4 GHz or better, 2 gigs RAM, a decently big hard drive (or two or three), and a very good quality sound card (by which I mean M-Audio or the like). I like the Gigabyte motherboards because they are reliable and solid.

If you are using your computer as a source I heartily recommend a very good stereo system to hook up to. Think McIntosh Labs equipment or the like and some superb speakers.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:05 pm

I agree with N7SC. I use an m-audio card, they're amazing. As for CPU, you could go with one of the E4xxx like C2D and be set...audio playback uses little CPU power.

Being an audition user myself I always reccomend it, but it may not work for everyone...

Past that, the info N7SC gave you should help a lot, but I don't overclock, and I avoid it.

N7SC · Post by **N7SC** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:16 pm

To clarify, I did not mean to encourage overclocking, was just giving the specs of my system, which was not originally built for audio work. Sorry if I was not clearer about that.

Bonestonne is quite right about audio playback using little CPU power, and even recording does not tax my system above about 15% to 25% CPU load, so you can use a much less powerful processor.

Please, please don't overlook the quality of the components beyond the computer. These days everyone is used to the low-grade sounds of MP3 files and iPods, but a really good high performance source (playing high quality files, not MP3s) would be a complete waste of you play it through a low grade stereo system. Go for the best you can. And remember, some of the best equipment out there was designed and built to a high enough quality level to be lifetime investments and will still be around for you to pass on to your children. Example: McIntosh tube amplifiers like the MC 240 and MC 275. A couple of hundred or so dollars each in their day, falling to under $100 when the transistor amps came out in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Now the 240 and 275 are, assuming excellent condition, worth over $4000 and highly sought after. Chose wisely for sound quality and investment value.

walkingjohn · Post by **walkingjohn** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:55 pm

Any quiet modern PC will do if playback is your only concern. My cpu (athlon x2) is currently running at 800MHz and is only 3-4% loaded playing .ape files through winamp. I suppose the question to ask is what else you want to do with the machine.

For hard drives, western digital's GP series seem to be the current best for size and silence for a decent price (notebook drives may be quieter but double the cost per MB).

I'm also an m-audio fan--though if you plan to use outboard DACs, there's not much point in paying for a sound-card that has good ones.

oceanobsession · Post by **oceanobsession** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:32 am

My case choice antec nsk2400 or p182 but i do like this one (SilverStone Lascala SST-LC13 Media Center ) hard drive would be wd 7500aacs
my new build will not be used for gaming so gibabyte 680 690 with amd duel core 939 or m2 soud card would be maybe a marion audio mk2
moodlab dice dac what about graph card fans and ram more advice please oceanobsession

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:32 pm

Start with a quiet PC - plenty of info on that around here - and add this recipe:
* EAC with Accurate Rip
* FLAC
* Foobar 0.9.5
* a decent soundcard

All of the Envy cards offer good value, and I think my $25 Chaintech sounds better than the California Audio Labs CD player it effectively replaced.

Before spending over $100 on a soundcard, you should consider spending a bit more on an external DAC. Emu's 0404 has the best array of IO options I've seen for $100, and it would make an excellent source for a separate DAC.

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:50 pm

For the best sound quality in Windows XP it is important to avoid resampling of the digital signal. Soundcards with ASIO output bypass Window's Kmixer resampling to send a bitperfect stream to the final DAC. The final DAC may be a soundcard DAC or a receiver DAC.

The M-Audio Revolution cards (I use the 5.1) output native ASIO but only over the analogue connections. The Chaintech AV-710, with the help of ASIO4ALL, can output a bitperfect digital stream to an external DAC (such as in the receiver).

The music player that you choose needs to be capable of using an ASIO output plugin. Some players you could choose include Foobar2000, Winamp, J. River Media Center and MediaMonkey. To avoid resampling by the player, output full volume without signal processing. There are no sound quality differences between these media players but each has advantages and drawbacks. I think Foobar2000 requires too much involvement to customize. My experience with Foobar was frustrating. After trying all of these players I settled on MediaMonkey Gold 2.5 (available at File Hippo). MediaMonkey has incredible features and is extremely simple but the Gold version costs $20 for a lifetime license.

For advanced universal music tagging with file and folder renaming, I use Tag&Rename.

If you decide to use EAC for the highest quality ripping, visit ChrisMyden.com for a guide that will greatly simplify setup. Myden offers downloadable EAC configuration files. Myden also links to the Lame MP3 encoder which like FLAC can be used by EAC. I can not hear the difference between FLAC and high VBR MP3s. I do use FLAC for archiving.

Greg F. · Post by **Greg F.** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:16 pm

I use a M- Audio USB Transit. I then send the signal to the preamp's RCAs. Smarter people than me suggest to get the "soundcard" out of the box so as to minimize some kinda interference. So I did. I would like to get the Monica USB DAC, but I just haven't got around to it yet. I use Foobar and yes, it is a PIA. I use FLAC and OGG Vorbis. I think I can tell the difference, but let's not discount the "placebo effect".
I have never been able to figure out this ASIO stuff.

oceanobsession · Post by **oceanobsession** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 am

Im also considering a lap top with ext hard drive used with a usb dac.
is the noise of fans a problem because you can here the fans over the music or is it because it can be picked up internaly also is the fan noise issue a prob with sound card or usb dac

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:53 am

With my M-Audio Revolution 5.1 even when sending an analogue signal no fan noise or interference can be heard over the speakers. With digital output interference would not be possible.

wayner · Post by **wayner** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:50 pm

Is there a difference in any sound card if you are using it as a digital source? As long as you can get the 1s and 0s accurately from hard drive to output then the source is perfect, is it not?

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:56 pm

wayner wrote:Is there a difference in any sound card if you are using it as a digital source? As long as you can get the 1s and 0s accurately from hard drive to output then the source is perfect, is it not?

With Windows XP the digital output can be bitperfect (or not if the stream is resampled by Kmixer). To avoid resampling by Kmixer the output must use either kernel streaming or ASIO. There is much info on this subject at avsforum.com.

willshak · Post by **willshak** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:34 am

Michael Sandstrom wrote: With Windows XP the digital output can be bitperfect (or not if the stream is resampled by Kmixer). To avoid resampling by Kmixer the output must use either kernel streaming or ASIO. There is much info on this subject at avsforum.com.

Your sound card also must support bit perfect digital output for it to work - some old, some new & cheap sound cards does not support it. Case in point:

My HTPC was initially misdelivered with a cheaper ASUS P5LD2 with a ADI AD1986A SoundMax sound chip which didn't support bit perfect. The 'expensive' P5LD2 version with a Realtek ALC882 does OTOH support bit perfect.

And yes, avsforums.com is the go to place

Kristian

Elixer · Post by **Elixer** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:15 am

If all you're looking to do is playback music, get a very nice sound card and put it into a very cheap machine. If you want to run windows XP use a machine with a 1 GHz+ processor and 512MB+ of ram.

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:31 am

Elixer wrote:If all you're looking to do is playback music, get a very nice sound card and put it into a very cheap machine. If you want to run windows XP use a machine with a 1 GHz+ processor and 512MB+ of ram.

Oceanobsession is aiming higher. He wants a high performance digital source.

oceanobsession · Post by **oceanobsession** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:26 pm

my system

1. belles ocm55 pre amp
2. belles 150a hotrod power amp
3. arcam cd192 cd player
4. shahinian arc speakers

Are we saying that the fans are not a problem with optical but they are with everthing else. i will be using xp. do laptops still have fans.ive downloaded media monkey just to get used to it. i get your drift about
asio the laptop seems the way to go with a dac and ext hard drive. but im still contemplating everthing still the moodlab dice dac is supposed to be good for the money also trends ud10. is it right that you can go from a sound card into a dac or usb into a dac which is better thanks for the posts it does help when you are dead from the neck up

oceanobsession · Post by **oceanobsession** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:36 pm

ive downloaded asio 4 all and this is what it is saying with my present soundcard which is a realtek 97
1. out 8x0.1-192khz 32 bits
2.in 2 x 8-48khz 16 bits

What am i aiming for

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:31 pm

Hello oceanobsession,

I do not think you will get fan interference even if you were to output analogue.

To output ASIO from MediaMonkey you need to place the ASIO output plugin in the folder C:\Program Files\MediaMonkey\Plugins. Then in MediaMonkey you would select Tools, Options, Output Plugin, ASIO, Configure to set it up. I have three ASIO output plugins which relate to CPU extensions SS1, SS2 and SS3. I use the SS3 plugin. If you can't find the right plugin, PM your email address to me and I will send them to you.

Because my M-Audio card has native ASIO over my analogue connection, I do not have to work with ASIO4All and, therefore, I can't tell you how to use it. I would only use a laptop as a mobile unit. For a stay-in-place computer a silent desktop is much preferred. Laptops are too limited in capability.

mr. poopyhead · Post by **mr. poopyhead** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:44 pm

just a note about m-audio's envy24 based cards (revo 5.1, 7.1)...
i recently found out that they don't support S3 sleep state... so if you put your computer to sleep, you get no sound when you wake up...

i believe the same is true of the chaintech AV-710... it probably has something to do with the envy24 chip...

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:10 pm

mr. poopyhead wrote:just a note about m-audio's envy24 based cards (revo 5.1, 7.1)...
i recently found out that they don't support S3 sleep state... so if you put your computer to sleep, you get no sound when you wake up...

i believe the same is true of the chaintech AV-710... it probably has something to do with the envy24 chip...

I never knew why the above was true but I have used both the AV-710 and the Revo 5.1 and resumption from sleep always dropped audio until a reboot. My rig runs 24/7 so the sleep mode glitch is no problem.

Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source

Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source

Re Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source

USB

Re Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Sourc

Bit perfect also requires sound card support

Re Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source

Re Building a PC as a High Performance Digital Stereo Source