Help me replace an old P3 server

sloeer · Post by **sloeer** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:42 pm

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here,
Now I'm looking to replace my server and need some guidance.

I currently run a linux home server with the following spec:
P3 Coppermine 800MHz
512MB SDRAM
Asus CUSL2 i815
3xHD (storage)
2xUSB memory (system)
intel Gb nic
The idle power usage with my noname PSU is now 47W (all disks sleeping), 52W (one disk spinning) and 65W (3 disks spinning).

My plan is to replace the cpu and motherboard (not the PSU) in order to be able to run xorg for casual surfing.
Therefore I want more RAM and preferably nvidia graphics (less hassle in linux).
I want to keep the costs down since I use an other computer for regular work.
The main priorities are therefore low power consumption, low heat and price. Performancewise I'm nearly satisfied with the P3.

My options are:

AMD system. (With 2 or 4GB DDR2):
Gigabyte GA-M68SM-S2L GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a
with
AMD Sempron LE-1250 / 2.2 GHz

Intel system (With 2 or 4GB DDR2):
ASUS P5KPL-AM INTEL G31 Intel GMA 3100
or
ASUS P5N73-AM 610I GeForce 7050/nForce 610i
with
Intel Celeron 430 1.8GHz

Third option:
P3 with another motherboard, 1.5GB RAM, passive AGP Geforce 5200 (downclocked but still too hot to touch the heatsink)
this one is running at about 55W with 1 disk, i.e. about the same consumption as the current system.

Questions:
Can I expect any of the AMD or Intel systems above to draw less power than the third option with the same PSU?
Which system would you experts suggest? The AMD and Intel systems cost about the same here, the third option is basically free.
Is it worth getting some other chipset?

lm · Post by lm » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:11 pm

Hmm, I did quite a lot of web browsing on a computer that had similar specs to your current machine, and it was ok. Do you even need the upgrade? X certainly runs on those specs, and it's mostly the ads that make web pages slow and can be cured by installing adblock and noscript to your firefox.

DragonMaster · Post by **DragonMaster** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:51 pm

Can I expect any of the AMD or Intel systems above to draw less power than the third option with the same PSU?

I'd expect the Sempron with an AMD 7xx chipset to have low power usage.

But seriously, with a TDP of 20W for the P3 800MHz, only a mobile or VIA processor could match on power usage.

IMO, take the 3rd option, it will bring Flash content to a decent speed.
Depending on the mainboard the system uses, you could run a P3-S CPU with <30W TDP and smaller transistors than the P3, which you can find at 1266 and 1400MHz. I know the CUSL2 can take them with a mod.

If you really want low power usage, you need a miniITX board with a VIA or mobile Intel CPU, and use server(VelociRaptor) or laptop HDDs, which isn't cheap.

As lm said, your computer is almost fine for web browsing. The problem would mostly be with the RAM size if you use a desktop environment running along with a web browser.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:45 am

While I believe you could get lower power consumption possibly from a newer beast, would it be worthwhile for the few watts you save?

I would say option 3 with an even older AGP card, maybe a TNT.

morglum · Post by **morglum** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:12 am

psiu wrote:While I believe you could get lower power consumption possibly from a newer beast, would it be worthwhile for the few watts you save?

I would say option 3 with an even older AGP card, maybe a TNT.

+1

Assuming you save a whopping 30 W using a newer beast.

30W * 365 days * 24 (hours / days) * 1 (KW / 1000 W) = 262 KW/h.

Here in Quebec (Canada) a KW/h will set you back 0.07$can ( that's about 0.05$ US)

--> 13.1$ US / year.
Even if you double that figure, it's not worth upgrading to save power.

And if you wanted to save the planet by saving energy , it's a clear no-no, due to all the embedded energy in computer components. Then again, there are times you just *need* to upgrade

sloeer · Post by **sloeer** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:19 pm

Thanks for all the tips.

About the power savings, here a 30W drop would save about 3x the money compared to at morglum's. It used to be worse, but the economic turmoil has resulted in somewhat cheaper electricity.

About the server, I will keep the 'new' P3 system with 1.5GB RAM. But I got a tualatin 1266MHz via ebay and will try if the pin mod works with my motherboard (a via 133a). It should, atleast according to the people on ebay who are selling pre-modded tualatins. That should provide enough cpu-horsepower for all my needs. (Thanks to DragonMaster for reminding of the P3-S mod).

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:07 pm

A tualatin p3 1.2 - 1.4 is faster in all ways over a p4 1.6.

It is a "dothan" build chip. It is the template for centrino and then for the core duo then core 2 duo.

I loved my p3 1.2 tualatin. It is a super fast chip for all webbing and played battlefield 1942 at high resolutions perfectly smooth.

p3 800 is like a slug compared. The tualatin could be run with the most minimal of active cooling measures. I ran out of use for it but I still have it stashed away for a rainy day.

Personally, I wouldnt dream of using it as anything but a linux server and web surfer. A main computer would have to use a dual core and 2 gigs ram with dvi out graphics. How much longer can a tualatin used motherboard last?

also, 65 watts is not good for idle power. It isnt bad, just not good. You could get a 754 single core amd64 chip, a 2.0ghz, with a k8t800 and be less idle wattage by a few watts or the same yet have a machine that is magnitudes more computing power. just a thought. and a cheap one

Plekto · Post by **Plekto** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:24 pm

What about the little via passively cooled boards? Boot the server from a CF/SSD to keep power usage low.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=59 ... pert&pid=1
A good article, though, on the Nano vs Atom. I like the Nano better, really, because you can get it on a board with a PCIe slot. This adds a world of budget options for video. You *can* get Atom boards with PCIe, but it's limited to 1x. Yes, 1x. Ag!

I'd have recommended the Atom, but even the cheapest lowest power video card will smoke any on-board video. The ATI X2400XT only uses about 19W of power. It'll work great for your intended use and also allow you to use a passive cooler as well(saves 1-2W for the fan - heh)

http://archive.atomicmpc.com.au/forums. ... c=7&t=9354

Yes, there are now fully stable X2400XT drivers for Linux. It's an old basic card things have finally caught up with it. Note - these cards only have minor issues in any case running 3d games. In 2D operation NVidia and ATI are now equally stable.

Your 800mhz box does about 1000 PCMarks(2005). The Nano's score of 1600-1700 is quite decent for a little linx box. And that's built-in video. My EX's Athalon 900 was just fine for web surfing, btw(roughly the same speed). Bit slow, but it worked even under XP. Toss in even the smallest, cheapest PCIe card and it'll scream through web pages and email(heh).

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/20 ... e-nano.ars
As you can see, just go with the Nano and toss in a frugal PCIe card.

Note - the test above was for the L2100, which uses 8W more power at full load. So it's really 70W vs 60W(and that raptor is a huge energy glutton, btw(and their PSU is woefully inefficient and likely has fans on it). Yes, the Nano is better, but Intel won't let anyone put a PCIe slot on any of the boards. Oops.

40-50W total system usage seems possible with careful planning. Boot off of CF and turn off disk caching/virtual memory. Also use a PICO power sully. This would also likely drop your drives down to 2.

sloeer · Post by **sloeer** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:07 am

Hi again, I'm back just to report on what happened to the old server. The tualatin works fine on my via based motherboard (a Asus CUV4X-m) after cutting three pins + voltage pin mod + stability pin mod (AK4 to AJ5). It's now running perfectly stable at 1266MHz on 1.3V (stock is 1.45V). The speed is fully sufficient for my needs. The idle wattage is 6W higher than a 866MHz coppermine, thats OK I guess, and I should be able to reach at least 55W using a slightly less crappy PSU. Idle temp is 30C and load temp is around 35C.

The tualatin actually ran fine on an non-tualatin Intel-based i815 motherboard without the stability fix. With it, in a Dell small desktop case the system was idling at 39W at a linux desktop with the built-in graphics. Too bad Dell made the case practically air-tight and with only one HD bay and too bad the i815 only support 512MB RAM.

So, thanks for the tips and discussion. Now I have a server which hopefully will last for a few years and only set me back $7. I will maybe buy some more tualatins while they are cheap since I need to wait til some later generation (i.e. after the P4) makes it to the $3-$10 range and compatible motherboards may be found in the recycle bins.