Advice on Mac Mini alternative?

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:28 am

I really liked the size and quietness of the Mac Mini, but felt building a PC system would give better value from a price/performance standpoint. So, I had the idea of the following system:

1. GIGABYTE GA-G31M-ES2L LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
2. EVGA 896-P3-1260-AR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
3. Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
4. Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT25664AA80A - Retail
5. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply - Retail

I'm looking for something similar to the above specs, but just as quiet (if not quieter) than the mac mini, while being as small as possible with at least 1 new-age pci slot for video and 1 PCIe or old-pci slot for an expansion card. Does anyone know of any better value setups in the ~$500 range? (This computer will also be used for home-studio audio recording set a 1.5ms latency 88.2khz and I will add a SSD hard drive exclusive to this budget)

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:36 am

For ya fancy audio ya got a diskreet solution, ain't ya?

Seriously now... what kind of audio interface are you going to use with this system?

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:07 pm

eh well, that blows the crap out of a mac mini by like 20x the power.

mac sucks. just a tip.

Next topic: hd? how much you want to spend?

And, have you asked about silencing the video card? that's a powerful card, a great one, just not commonly silenced. There is a separate forum for each of your items you want to buy.

Soulstorm · Post by **Soulstorm** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:30 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:eh well, that blows the crap out of a mac mini by like 20x the power.

mac sucks. just a tip.

Next topic: hd? how much you want to spend?

And, have you asked about silencing the video card? that's a powerful card, a great one, just not commonly silenced. There is a separate forum for each of your items you want to buy.

Quoted for truth

.

And not 20 times, more like 40 times. Come on, the Mac Mini doesn`t even dream of such a graphics card or such a processor (for 599 you get a weak 2.0Ghz LAPTOP CPU and 1 GB of ram + 120GB hdd, and an integrated GPU...Lol ). You also need an 3rd party cooler, something like a Freezer 7 Pro (it`s very cheap and good) with the fan turned down to 800rpm should keep that CPU cool and quiet, unless you are doing some serious overclocking.

Also some quiet fans (700-800rpms) + a 3rd party cooler for the GPU (the stock one gets loud under load. Maybe go for an HD4870 + Accelero S1 fitted with a slow 120mm fan on it.

mozartrules · Post by **mozartrules** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:48 pm

JackyPerformance.com wrote:I really liked the size and quietness of the Mac Mini, but felt building a PC system would give better value from a price/performance standpoint. I'm looking for something similar to the above specs, but just as quiet (if not quieter) than the mac mini, while being as small as possible with at least 1 new-age pci slot for video and 1 PCIe or old-pci slot for an expansion card.

That is probably not possible at a reasonable price. The combination of the Mini's size and low-noise is achieved by using low-power laptop components which have higher prices and lower performance. The small size makes it close to impossible to get rid of the heat generated by more powerful components.

I think the simplest way would be to give up on the size restriction and simply use something like and Antec Fusion which can support mATX and where two 120mm fans are low-noise with good cooling performance.

You could try http://www.atechfabrication.com/ which allows you to build fanless PCs that looks better than the Mini and run comfortably with a 3GHz E8300. . But be prepared for a shock when you see the prizes.

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:20 pm

LodeHacker wrote:Seriously now... what kind of audio interface are you going to use with this system?

RME Multiface. www.RME-AUDIO.com

The desktop will be used as a main home desktop and also serve as a Digital Audio Workstation. What I'm seeking from you more up-to-date and experienced SPCR's is some part suggestions that would be better choices than the above while still staying within the following criteria:

1. Similar price budget (~$500)
2. As quiet as possible
3. As small as possible
4. PCI Express x16 Slot + (PCI and PCI Express x1 slot)

If there are better power supplies / cases / motherboards / video cards in terms of being quieter and more stable, I'd like to hear about it

.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:24 pm

i'd suggest getting something other than the Apevia Q-Pack.

the Q-Pack (at least at my house) has a bad track record.

there's a Silverstone case (if it's in your budget) that's well worth looking into that would have more space for a graphics card.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:58 pm

buy huge assed heatsinks and dont put doors on your case.

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:47 pm

bonestonne,
the Silverstone case looks nice, but I'm worried it will be too noisy. Essentially, what I'm asking is within that ~$500 budget, what is the quietest and best performing parts you would choose if this were your project.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:41 pm

If this were my project it would be based on the processing power needed, and scalability of software.

For the power given by the system, you've got a good choice, The E8400 is an excellent choice, however the GTX260 is mad overkill. 4GB of RAM is great for 32 of 64bit. G31 chipsets are still recent enough, and support 45nm, so it'll be fine.

The GTX 260 could easily be something like a 9800 model.

for audio you'll want a good soundcard, M-Audio is great for 32bit with 4gb or LESS. never more.

i'd be more detailed, however it's dinner time and i'm at work.

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:03 pm

what sounds card cooling / quieting solution would you folks use with the Nvidia GTX 260 and what are some good quiet small form factor cases that will fit that quieter-cooling solution? From the sound of your feedback, it seems like my other part choices are solid, yes?

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:19 pm

bueller, bueller?

croddie · Post by **croddie** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:08 am

JackyPerformance.com wrote:1. GIGABYTE GA-G31M-ES2L LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

G31 is ancient. G45 is the current generation.

2. EVGA 896-P3-1260-AR GeForce GTX 260

A high power card which will make your system noisy. Why do you need it?

Does anyone know of any better value setups in the ~$500 range?

Depends on the purpose.

croddie · Post by **croddie** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:11 am

JackyPerformance.com wrote:The desktop will be used as a main home desktop and also serve as a Digital Audio Workstation. What I'm seeking from you more up-to-date and experienced SPCR's is some part suggestions that would be better choices than the above while still staying within the following criteria:

1. Similar price budget (~$500)
2. As quiet as possible
3. As small as possible
4. PCI Express x16 Slot + (PCI and PCI Express x1 slot)

You don't need discrete graphics.
As small as possible is mini-itx. Get an Intel G45 or Nvidia 9300/9400 motherboard.
Use an external power supply.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:39 am

croddie wrote:
JackyPerformance.com wrote:The desktop will be used as a main home desktop and also serve as a Digital Audio Workstation. What I'm seeking from you more up-to-date and experienced SPCR's is some part suggestions that would be better choices than the above while still staying within the following criteria:

1. Similar price budget (~$500)
2. As quiet as possible
3. As small as possible
4. PCI Express x16 Slot + (PCI and PCI Express x1 slot)
You don't need discrete graphics.
As small as possible is mini-itx. Get an Intel G45 or Nvidia 9300/9400 motherboard.
Use an external power supply.

+1 for integrated graphics mobo if your 3D needs are low (no gaming).

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:59 pm

Thanks for the tips guys

. Croddie, I wanted the high-powered video card for playing games on the weekends with friends, but I hate the noise so I could use some advice as to what is the best case and cooling solution to run that video card within my ~$500 budget and keep things stable as quiet as possible as well.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:05 pm

what's your monitor resolution?
what games?

That'll lead to the right gfx card...

croddie · Post by **croddie** » Wed May 06, 2009 2:56 am

JackyPerformance.com wrote:Thanks for the tips guys . Croddie, I wanted the high-powered video card for playing games on the weekends with friends, but I hate the noise so I could use some advice as to what is the best case and cooling solution to run that video card within my ~$500 budget and keep things stable as quiet as possible as well.

Not possible. You can get silence with a lower-power video card though. The SilverStone Sugo 05 looks promising because you can run it with a single 120mm fan, provided your graphics card power consumption is low enough for an external psu. NB 40nm graphics cards are starting to come out.

dyfrgi · Post by **dyfrgi** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:26 pm

If you don't mind noise while gaming, you could go for some sort of hybrid SLI setup. I don't know how well they work in practice, but in theory that should keep your power consumption down using the integrated GPU when you're not gaming and turn up the heat with the discrete card when you need it.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:11 am

dyfrgi wrote:If you don't mind noise while gaming, you could go for some sort of hybrid SLI setup. I don't know how well they work in practice, but in theory that should keep your power consumption down using the integrated GPU when you're not gaming and turn up the heat with the discrete card when you need it.

Yeah - After much fanfare and then very little support, NVidia sort of walked away from that. You'd be hard pressed to find a workable solution.

Post by **MikeC** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:06 am

You can't have your cake and eat it too, not for $500. That video card has to go. Too expensive (near $300!), too hot, too noisy. Any small PC which sit on the desktop and has a stock GTX 260 in it will not be quiet.

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:28 am

Fact: NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS is much more powerful than your GeForce FX 5950 card, but your GeForce FX 5950 card is adequate enough to play your fancy games on the weekends yet you boast about a raging need for a high end graphics card even if it will not enhance the framerate of Lemmings. Look, you told us initially you want a DAW. Great, now you tell us you need to game as well. What next? Quantum computing on the list as well?

Your audio solution is bad. If you want to go ultra extreme in terms of size and compactness, Mini-ITX is the only right choice for it. Mini-ITX motherboards however have only a single expansion slot, was it PCI-Express or conventional PCI. Your RME Multiface requires a PCI / PCI-Express card to communicate with the interface itself. I recommend you to utilize that in a real DAW with dedicated components and enough room for DSP cards etc. and get a USB / FireWire audio interface.

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:42 am

CA_Steve,
the latest and greatest First Person Shooter games would be the focus in terms of "weekend warrior" useage. I understand I'll have to compromise since I want it quiet and compact, but I still want that horsepower for games like Fear, Crysis, etc to enjoy all the eye candy

.

LodeHacker wrote: Your audio solution is bad.

I've used the RME Multiface for a few years...have you even used it to say it's bad? The beauty of the RME Multiface is that it can achieve 1.5ms latency unlike its fire-wire and usb 2.0 siblings. So, for me, it's a GOOD audio recording solution. The other perk, is for regular games, I can use any other normal gaming card, I don't have to rely on the Multiface if I don't want to, it's a stable option that has great stability and sound quality.

LodeHacker wrote:If you want to go ultra extreme in terms of size and compactness...

This is the crux of the issue: The goal is to go as small and quiet as possible while staying within the ~$500 budget, so obviously compromises will be made since it's impossible to "go ultra extreme" as you say. Afterall, going "ultra extreme in terms of compactness" at a cost-is-no-object attitude was never my goal. That is why I listed the budget and parts to see if better component options of similar performance existed while keeping things as quiet and cool as possible within the budget.

LodeHacker wrote:I recommend you to utilize that in a real DAW with dedicated components and enough room for DSP cards etc. and get a USB / FireWire audio interface.

Thank you for your recommendation LodeHacker, but I never intend to use "DSP cards" nor a USB / FireWire interface for my studio because it does not fit my needs..that is why I was specific about goals and limits in my first post of the build.

Croddie, the SilverStone Sugo 05 definitely looks interesting and a great size...I think this may be the ticket if I can workout a fitting cooling solution for a more powerful gamer-friendly video card. Thank you all for your input and I look forward to hearing more of it. It's really helped to open my eyes and bring me up to date

. As of now, I'm wondering if waiting until August to build the system would result in getting slightly more bang for my buck? Whatcha think guys?

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:21 pm

JackyPerformance.com wrote:...have you even used it to say it's bad?

Ugh. I did NOT mean the RME was bad, but your choice compact DAW + RME is BAD. And yes I've used the RME and in fact have the Digiface so you keep quiet brother

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Mon May 18, 2009 12:54 am

Given everyone's feedback I've thought about this more and decided I can get by with onboard video for a few months until a quieter single-slot powerful video-card is released. With that in mind here is what I'm looking at:

1. HEC 6K28BBX585 Black 0.8mm SECC Steel MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case 585W Power Supply - Retail : $59
2. Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM: $8.99
3. G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail: $58.99
4. Foxconn G45M-S LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail : $91.99
5. Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail : $167.99
6. OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX30G 2.5" 30GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail: $119
7. Scythe SCORC-1000 140mm CPU Cooler - Retail: $57.99
8. SAMSUNG 22X DVDÂ±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q - OEM: $26.99
------------------------------------------
Total: $591.93

What do you guys think of this list?

Post by **CA_Steve** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:41 am

Assuming you are in the US (no location in sig):
- Newegg has a $20 rebate on the Vertex today as a shellshocker.
- e8400 multiplier is 9. So, 1:1 CPU/Memory at stock speed = DDR2 667MHz, OC to 3.6GHz -> DDR2 800 speed. Save $10 and go with tighter timing 4-4-4-12 DDR2 800.
- mobo. Don't have a feel for Foxconn.
- CPU cooler. Will that fit in your case? Seems overkill.

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:37 pm

CA_Steve wrote:Assuming you are in the US (no location in sig):
- Newegg has a $20 rebate on the Vertex today as a shellshocker.
- e8400 multiplier is 9. So, 1:1 CPU/Memory at stock speed = DDR2 667MHz, OC to 3.6GHz -> DDR2 800 speed. Save $10 and go with tighter timing 4-4-4-12 DDR2 800.
- mobo. Don't have a feel for Foxconn.
- CPU cooler. Will that fit in your case? Seems overkill.

Steve,
thank you for those excellent suggestions. I've decided on the Antec Mini P180 as the case for this project, but I'm looking for a good deal on a white one before continuing.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:23 pm

Hi,

So instead of a Mac Mini sized system, you're going to build in a Mini P180?

JackyPerformance.com · Post by **JackyPerformance.com** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:16 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hi,

So instead of a Mac Mini sized system, you're going to build in a Mini P180?

Yes

. Everyone's advice reminded me that for the power I want and quiet goals, a larger case is the way to go. Besides, it's a desktop and meant to stay at home. For the road, a Dell Latitude D830 2.5Ghz c2d notebook will suffice.

peter_j · Post by **peter_j** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:41 am

i agree

Advice on Mac Mini alternative?

Advice on Mac Mini alternative?

Re: Advice on Mac Mini alternative?

Re: Advice on Mac Mini alternative?