Hi SPCR,
This is my first post and in need of your advice for a build. I am looking for a computer to run some CPU intensive jobs, be an always on server and occasionally play a few games (flight sims/oblivion/etc.). Unfortunately, I live in a cramped SF apartment and would have to go sleep practically curled around the box. So a small, silent, multi-core, power efficient PC would be fantastic. I am considering a build with these parts
Motherboard: Zotac 9300 itx
CPU: Q8200S 65W
CPU Cooler: Thermalright HR01 Plus
GPU: EVGA 512-P3-N856-LR GeForce 9600 GT Low Power
GPU Cooler: Accelero S1 rev 2
RAM: DDR2 800 2x2GB Mushkin
HDD: WD Scorpio Blue 500GB
PSU: PicoPSU 150W (ahem)
I don't have a case in mind. I am thinking of building my own with the motherboard is mounted vertically with the ports pointing down ala the mac cube. So my questions:
- Can this setup be fanless? I am somehow bitten by this bug.
- Can the PicoPSU power this rig? I am calculating around 140W total consumption. 80W for motherboard/CPU + 59W for GPU. But this is a rather rough estimate. Does the PW-200 work with this motherboard?
- Anything I should do differently?
thanks,
lashnan
small/silent zotac 9300 build
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LodeHacker
- Posts: 628
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- Location: Finland
Hello and Welcome to SPCR!
It looks like you've done your homework, but here's what I think: although the Q8200S has a TDP of 65W, it'll be challenging to run it completely passive. Pair the HR01 Plus with a quiet fan like a Nexus 120mm and you'll do fine. You might want to drop the 9600GT completely in favor of the integrated graphics chipset, as it will be just fine to play Oblivion with high settings (http://www.oldblivion.com/sm/index.php?topic=5973.0). Also, you said the computer will mainly be a server so getting rid of the 9600GT means one hot component less to take care of. If you are building the case yourself you might want to ditch the 2.5" HDD for a 3.5" HDD and get 1TB or more space for the same price. If you go for a commercial Mini-ITX case though you'll be most likely limited to the 2.5" HDD. Otherwise it seems like a good build and a picoPSU will be sufficient, especially if you choose to get rid of the 9600GT.
It looks like you've done your homework, but here's what I think: although the Q8200S has a TDP of 65W, it'll be challenging to run it completely passive. Pair the HR01 Plus with a quiet fan like a Nexus 120mm and you'll do fine. You might want to drop the 9600GT completely in favor of the integrated graphics chipset, as it will be just fine to play Oblivion with high settings (http://www.oldblivion.com/sm/index.php?topic=5973.0). Also, you said the computer will mainly be a server so getting rid of the 9600GT means one hot component less to take care of. If you are building the case yourself you might want to ditch the 2.5" HDD for a 3.5" HDD and get 1TB or more space for the same price. If you go for a commercial Mini-ITX case though you'll be most likely limited to the 2.5" HDD. Otherwise it seems like a good build and a picoPSU will be sufficient, especially if you choose to get rid of the 9600GT.
LodeHacker, thanks for the warm welcome!
One thing I don't quite understand about the CPUs: although all three Q8200S and say the Q9550s has the same listed TDP of 65W, I assume in practice Q8200S runs cooler. The tomshardware article ( tomshardware (dot) com/reviews/core-2-q9550s,2162-8.html (I am not allowed to post links yet)) comparing the peak power requirement of the two procs shows a 10.6W difference (assuming 82% efficiency). Does this imply that in practice Q8200S has a TDP of ~55W?
Great to hear that oblivion runs with a 9300. If I can drop the discrete GPU, then I can shrink the case further.
btw, this was my design for the case:
http :// img268.imageshack (dot) us/i/miniitx.jpg/
As you can see, I was shooting for the convection flow. The motherboard mounts on an acrylic piece that slots in from the top. The HDD is mounted on the other side of this tray which was part of my reason for interest in 2.5" drives. I don't need a lot of capacity but still fussing over low power and noise. Actually, is there a quiet 7200RPM 2.5" drive that SPCR recommends?
thanks,
lashnan
One thing I don't quite understand about the CPUs: although all three Q8200S and say the Q9550s has the same listed TDP of 65W, I assume in practice Q8200S runs cooler. The tomshardware article ( tomshardware (dot) com/reviews/core-2-q9550s,2162-8.html (I am not allowed to post links yet)) comparing the peak power requirement of the two procs shows a 10.6W difference (assuming 82% efficiency). Does this imply that in practice Q8200S has a TDP of ~55W?
Great to hear that oblivion runs with a 9300. If I can drop the discrete GPU, then I can shrink the case further.
btw, this was my design for the case:
http :// img268.imageshack (dot) us/i/miniitx.jpg/
As you can see, I was shooting for the convection flow. The motherboard mounts on an acrylic piece that slots in from the top. The HDD is mounted on the other side of this tray which was part of my reason for interest in 2.5" drives. I don't need a lot of capacity but still fussing over low power and noise. Actually, is there a quiet 7200RPM 2.5" drive that SPCR recommends?
thanks,
lashnan
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LodeHacker
- Posts: 628
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:25 pm
- Location: Finland
Interesting design, very clean and beautiful 3D concept! Yes, in practice Q8200S will run cooler than its siblings. Something I have noticed is that slower CPUs are underclocked faster CPUs. In other words Intel has (most likely) decreased the multiplier of a fast CPU and sells it as a slower CPU for less $$$. At the same time without making any math it'll be obvious that this new, but slightly slower CPU will run cooler. The Western Digital WD5000BEVT is an excellent choice and thanks to high platter density is pretty fast as well. If I recall correctly it's a two platter design, so a more quiet approach would be to get a single platter HDD, but the difference in speed will be noticeable and acoustically I think there's not going to be that big of a difference.
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deruberhanyok
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:06 pm
- Location: MD
Nice looking design, lashnan. And welcome to SPCR. 
I just wanted to chime in and say I don't think a 7200RPM 2.5" drive is worth looking at; the 5400RPM drives such as the Scorpio Blue you have listed there are plenty fast and very quiet.
I think realistically if you wanted any less noise from your storage you'd have to consider solid state.
I just wanted to chime in and say I don't think a 7200RPM 2.5" drive is worth looking at; the 5400RPM drives such as the Scorpio Blue you have listed there are plenty fast and very quiet.
I think realistically if you wanted any less noise from your storage you'd have to consider solid state.
updates
Posting this a lot later than I thought I would. I blame oblivion (did work with 9300).
First of all, LodeHacker was right: Pure passive cooling didn't work with a Q9400S on a zotac 9300 mounted vertically with a HR01 Plus. Core temperature with cpuburn hit 75C. What was surprising to me was that even the slightest airflow from a distant fan would drop temperature by 15-20C. Heh. had to try it.
btw, the tab from HR01's mounting bracket extended into the memory slot on the zotac which made it impossible to put a second stick of ram in at least not without some dremeling.
In any case, given that I was going to need to put a fan in, I wanted to see if I could shrink the case more than my original design while keeping it inaudible. Footprint is at a premium around here, so I went for a lower profile heatsink: the thermalright AXP-140 with a 92mm fan blowing across it. This worked as far as CPU temperature was concerned with 4 core cpuburn and gives me the room to make a slim 'tower' case.
First of all, LodeHacker was right: Pure passive cooling didn't work with a Q9400S on a zotac 9300 mounted vertically with a HR01 Plus. Core temperature with cpuburn hit 75C. What was surprising to me was that even the slightest airflow from a distant fan would drop temperature by 15-20C. Heh. had to try it.
btw, the tab from HR01's mounting bracket extended into the memory slot on the zotac which made it impossible to put a second stick of ram in at least not without some dremeling.
In any case, given that I was going to need to put a fan in, I wanted to see if I could shrink the case more than my original design while keeping it inaudible. Footprint is at a premium around here, so I went for a lower profile heatsink: the thermalright AXP-140 with a 92mm fan blowing across it. This worked as far as CPU temperature was concerned with 4 core cpuburn and gives me the room to make a slim 'tower' case.
some build images. Here is an open bench with the AXP-140 and a noctua 92mm
I wanted to make the case out of acrylic. I designed it in google Sketchup which I sent to pololu.com to have it laser cut. Good service there by the way. Here are the cut parts as Pololu shipped them:
Here is the motherboard tray:
The backplate snapped in which made all the rooting around for motherboard specs pay off. The screwholes for the motherboard points were cut with laser. In the front there is a cut-out for the 92mm noctua and a hole for a Vandal Resistant power switch:
I wanted to make the case out of acrylic. I designed it in google Sketchup which I sent to pololu.com to have it laser cut. Good service there by the way. Here are the cut parts as Pololu shipped them:
Here is the motherboard tray:
The backplate snapped in which made all the rooting around for motherboard specs pay off. The screwholes for the motherboard points were cut with laser. In the front there is a cut-out for the 92mm noctua and a hole for a Vandal Resistant power switch:
Last edited by lashnan on Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here is a finished shot:
The HDD is on the otherside of the motherboard tray. Optical drive is external since I don't use it very often. The final specs are zotac 9300 itx/Q9400S @2.6Ghz/Thermalright AXP-140/Noctua 92mm/Mushkin DDR2-800 2x2GB/WD Scorpio Blue 500GB/Pico PSU 120W. No discrete GPU per SPCR recommendation.
Dimensions of the case are roughly 4.5" x 7.5" x 9" (WxHxD). Power consumption is 32W idle and up to 89W at 4 core cpuburn. At full burn, max core temp is 66C with the noctua using the supplied LNA (supposedly 13db). The build isn't totally inaudible but it's close. I am happy with the size and power consumption. And oblivion
The HDD is on the otherside of the motherboard tray. Optical drive is external since I don't use it very often. The final specs are zotac 9300 itx/Q9400S @2.6Ghz/Thermalright AXP-140/Noctua 92mm/Mushkin DDR2-800 2x2GB/WD Scorpio Blue 500GB/Pico PSU 120W. No discrete GPU per SPCR recommendation.
Dimensions of the case are roughly 4.5" x 7.5" x 9" (WxHxD). Power consumption is 32W idle and up to 89W at 4 core cpuburn. At full burn, max core temp is 66C with the noctua using the supplied LNA (supposedly 13db). The build isn't totally inaudible but it's close. I am happy with the size and power consumption. And oblivion
Excellent piece of work, looks gorgeous!
An alternative to this setup would be to have a slim fan on the side blowing towards the motherboard with warm air exiting through openings in the rear (like you have now) and front. Something similar to a 12cm fan psu.
The noctua fan at the front does look neat though.
An alternative to this setup would be to have a slim fan on the side blowing towards the motherboard with warm air exiting through openings in the rear (like you have now) and front. Something similar to a 12cm fan psu.
The noctua fan at the front does look neat though.
Yeah, i gotta agree with that suggestion. See that heatsink is designed to be cooled by a fan facing the large face of the heat sink. Sending air down the side of it doesn't really take advantage of the design.ntavlas wrote:Excellent piece of work, looks gorgeous!
An alternative to this setup would be to have a slim fan on the side blowing towards the motherboard with warm air exiting through openings in the rear (like you have now) and front. Something similar to a 12cm fan psu.
The noctua fan at the front does look neat though.
I guess its far too late for that now, but if you feel the need to add extra cooling, you could probably fit a slim slipstream in the side! I would filter the air tho...
Nice work with that case. It looks so cool. Inspiring really..
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b3nbranch
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Wow!
I love what you've done here. I'm thinking of a Zotac 9300 build in the next few months, and had been thinking of an SG05/06 case, but this is awfully tempting. One drawback ... I've never worked with acrylic before. How do the different acrylic pieces join??
I agree that blowing down on the AXP-140 would be better cooling. I actually bought a 120mm nexus for that end. But I figured if I can get it to inaudible with the noctua 92mm then it shouldn't matter. It's close and there is about 10C of headroom and a ULNA adapter waiting to be tried. But if it still bugs me, I am happy to redo the case. I think it will take a overhaul because the top of the AXP-140 is pretty close to the side panel.
Good point about the filter. Currently the heatsink is acting as a cat hair filter for the room. The idea was to fit a pantyhose sock over the front of the case.
Good point about the filter. Currently the heatsink is acting as a cat hair filter for the room. The idea was to fit a pantyhose sock over the front of the case.
I`ve found pantyhose to be a good filter but it`s quite hard to get a good looking result as it tends to stretch in a non uniform way once not in its intended use.
Performance pcs have some great looking filters and since you`ve put so much effort into this great looking case you might be interested.
Performance pcs have some great looking filters and since you`ve put so much effort into this great looking case you might be interested.
Moogles et al, thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I will try to put the dxf files up somewhere so someone wanting to make a case can get the parts cut.
ntavlas, thanks for the tip on pantyhose. I checked out the air filters. The FilterRight one looks like it should do the trick although I have become fond of the exposed fan look.
Speaking of fans, Sunrise, the acrylic is too thick for the fan rubber mounts. I am using 1/4" for most of the case and 1/8" for the side panels. Haven't tried drilling though.
b3nbranch, I used an acrylic cement called 'weld-on' for joining acrylic. Tap plastic has an excellent how-to video that I followed:
How to glue Acrylic [youtube.com]
ntavlas, thanks for the tip on pantyhose. I checked out the air filters. The FilterRight one looks like it should do the trick although I have become fond of the exposed fan look.
Speaking of fans, Sunrise, the acrylic is too thick for the fan rubber mounts. I am using 1/4" for most of the case and 1/8" for the side panels. Haven't tried drilling though.
b3nbranch, I used an acrylic cement called 'weld-on' for joining acrylic. Tap plastic has an excellent how-to video that I followed:
How to glue Acrylic [youtube.com]