Recommendations for a new Gaming and Development PC?

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:27 am

Hey all,

I'm looking at putting together a new gaming/development PC. Here are my proposed specs:

Motherboard: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2
Processor: Intel Core i7 920
Memory: Corsair XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) DDR3
Power Supply: Nexus VALUE 430
Graphics: EVGA GeForce GTX 275
Case: Antec P183

My first concern is whether the 430 Watt PSU can drive this system, or do I need to go with a higher rated PSU. After that is cooling the beast in the quietest manner. I'm considering going with the Prolima Megahalems for the CPU after reading the review. I'd like to get a quieter VGA cooler as well, but I didn't see any in the recommended list that supports the GeForce GTX series. Any recommendations on case fans beyond what comes with the P183 and how to lay them out are welcome, too. Thanks!

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:29 am

Here's an Anandtech review of various x58 mobos, the i7 920, and an ATI 4870 for you to compare power usage to your proposed system. 190W idle/280W load at stock speeds. An Overclock3D review of the v1 card with a 920 and GTX280 idled at 180W/load 320W.

The GTX275's power per X-Bit Labs is about 10W more than the 4870 and 10W less than the GTX280. So, your system's load power will be around 300W at stock speeds.

300W load for the Nexus implies ~18dBA. Still pretty quiet. The GTX will probably be your primary source of noise.

audiojar · Post by **audiojar** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:54 am

I'd be very surprised if you actually managed to hit 300 watts during your most heavy usage (probably gaming). The Nexus 430 is perfectly fine, and it will be far from your loudest component.

The P183 review goes over case fans and cooling quite well. There are also plenty of reviews of CPU cooling options. I'm not familiar with the Megahalems though.

Rucker · Post by **Rucker** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:17 am

My Kill-a-Watt rated my 4.2GHz OC i920 and GTX275 SLI at 510W in Prime95, as a data point.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:07 am

Rucker wrote:My Kill-a-Watt rated my 4.2GHz OC i920 and GTX275 SLI at 510W in Prime95, as a data point.

GPUs are idling in Prime 95.

Any Furmark results?

audiojar · Post by **audiojar** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:12 pm

He's only using a single video card and he didn't mention overclocking. Also, the Kill-A-Watt measures AC power while PSUs are rated for DC power (which is AC draw times efficiency).

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:27 pm

audiojar wrote:He's only using a single video card and he didn't mention overclocking. Also, the Kill-A-Watt measures AC power while PSUs are rated for DC power (which is AC draw times efficiency).

yep - was just looking for another data point.

Also, I did forget the AC->DC efficiency conversion. So, if the system is drawing ~300W from the wall and the Nexus is ~84% efficient, then the DC load is ~250W.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:25 pm

Thanks for all the feedback so far!

audiojar is correct, I don't plan on overclocking or doing SLI.

I was hoping there were VGA coolers out that supported the GTX series that would help quiet them some. Maybe I should look at 9000 series cards with a VGA cooler rather than a GTX?

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:55 pm

Is having an aftermarket cooler THAT important to you that you would be willing to buy a card that is already vastly inferior to the GTX series?

Graphics cards are noisy, yes. But there are new cards that are less noisy than others. Look for axial fans on the heat sinks. They have to spin a lot slower than centrifugal fans to move the same air. (the down side is the card is thicker and probably covers up another slot on your mobo)

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:07 am

I'm pretty sensitive to certain types of noise. I had planned to build the system without an aftermarket cooler, then fall back on that if there is a problem. But for right now, there doesn't seem to be a cooler to fall back on.

That said, I'll probably stick with the GTX card. Thanks for the tip on the fan type, I'll check for that on the cards I'm looking at.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:43 am

It looks like most GTX 275s come with either a centrifugal fan or dual axial fans, which is probably not much of a win. Many 295s come with a single axial fan, but are around $200 more. So is the price worth the quiet (and extra power) of a GTX 295? Or is the difference not that noticeable?

I've also noticed the minimum power supply ratings tend to be 680W or higher, with 46 amps on the 12V (the Nexus 430 appears to have 20 amps on it's 12Vs). Is this is a concern, or is this listed mainly for lower quality PSUs?

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:55 am

honestly, I feel that the "recomended" power supplies for the new vga cards are bullshit. it's all just a ploy to get you to buy psu's that you DONT need. Here's the thing. It doesn't cost power supply makers that much more money to make a 1000W psu over a 520W. The just beef up the circuitry and MAYBe have to add a few more "smart" circuits for safety. They want you to buy a high power rated PSU becasue they make wayy more money on them versus a psu that is more suited for your needs.

As for the fan issue, there is no doubt about it, centrifugal fans work. That's why they use them. But the fact is they do have to spin faster to move the same amount of air versus an axial fan.

I hear what your saying about the more expensive cards having axials versus centrifugal. What I would do is consider the price difference, and make an informed decision. As a gamer, I would pick a card that will perform to meet my standards, but nothing higher (as I am not made of money). Then within that category of cards, I would try to pick a card with the best accoustic properties.

All high end gaming cards are going to be loud at load. But, i wear headphones so that means nothign to me. What matters to me is that it can idle at low temps, and with very low noise. And after reading about the newer cards on the market, I think this is a totally realisitc goal for most good quality cards.

Hope this helped

Post by **CA_Steve** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:13 am

RoGuE wrote:honestly, I feel that the "recomended" power supplies for the new vga cards are bullshit. it's all just a ploy to get you to buy psu's that you DONT need. Here's the thing. It doesn't cost power supply makers that much more money to make a 1000W psu over a 520W. The just beef up the circuitry and MAYBe have to add a few more "smart" circuits for safety. They want you to buy a high power rated PSU becasue they make wayy more money on them versus a psu that is more suited for your needs.
Hope this helped

I guess I'm a little less cynical on this issue. I think Nvidia and ATI suggested outrageously high power PSUs because there wasn't any decent standardization on build quality or amperage on the 12V lines beyond the basic ATX specs. So, they erred on the high side so that the cards would always work with the PSUs.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:19 am

yeah, you are probably right to some degree. But who knows, maybe a couple PSU companys have nvidia + ati in their pockets....

im not really a conspiracy theorist all the time, I just think what they recommend is outrageous, and there has to be a reason ouside of making sure their cards perform to spec.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:11 pm

nikarul wrote:Any recommendations on case fans beyond what comes with the P183 and how to lay them out are welcome, too. Thanks!

If it's case fans you're looking for, I can absolutely guarantee you that the Scythe S-Flex series will not let you down.

In my P182 I've got two 120mm 1600RPM S-Flex as intakes and then two 120mm 1200RPM ones as exhausts, providing airflow for a lightly overclocked E8400, 2x2GB of 1066 RAM and a stock GeForce 8800 GTS 512. They keep my rig cool and quiet in idle and are no earsore at full blast. Full blast is certainly enough for 24/7 gaming, and I run them at 6V for idle, which makes them spin at 800 and 600RPM respectively.

The S-Flex fans are simply the most robust, reliable and pleasant fans I know. You can read more about them here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article69 ... html#sflex. Just a word of warning: if the front filters on the P183 are the same as on the P182, you will need to use the fan sled, so don't break it!

swoody · Post by **swoody** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:11 pm

nikarul wrote:Graphics: EVGA GeForce GTX 275
I'd like to get a quieter VGA cooler as well.

Wow, I'm really suprised nobody else has mentioned this, but you may want to look into an HR-03 VGA cooler from Thermalright. They do a great job at keeping your graphics card much cooler than the stock coolers, and they're *much* quieter.

Here's a review from Bjorn3D with the HR-03 on a FTX275:
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1629

K.Murx · Post by **K.Murx** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:53 pm

Das_Saunamies wrote:In my P182 I've got two 120mm 1600RPM S-Flex as intakes and then two 120mm 1200RPM ones as exhausts, providing airflow for a lightly overclocked E8400, 2x2GB of 1066 RAM and a stock GeForce 8800 GTS 512. They keep my rig cool and quiet in idle and are no earsore at full blast. Full blast is certainly enough for 24/7 gaming, and I run them at 6V for idle, which makes them spin at 800 and 600RPM respectively.

That is some serious overkill. You should be able to get decent temperatures with just the 1200's, even undervolted. Try it out!
What I gather form other people here on the forums, as long as you do not have a SLI/Crossfire System, two 1200 SlipStreams/S-Flex, one for intake, one for exhaust should be enough for almost any system in a P182+.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:58 pm

I went ahead and ordered pretty much what I'd spec'ed in the OP, except I went with the Antec CP-850. I've already got the P183 case, and I'm hoping the fan in the back will do better than the Nexus's bottom fan. Thanks for everyone's input, once I've got it together and tweaked I'll post the results.

@swoody That's great to know. I'll definitely look into the HR-03 if the GPU noise starts getting to me.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:27 pm

Alright, posting from the new computer. Very happy with it so far, however I'm having issues with the motherboard temperature. It's reading 45-50 C, often higher than the CPU at idle!

I have 3 Tri-cool fans in the case right now, one in the bottom front doing intake for the hard drive (lowers the HD temp 10 degrees even on low), one in the center front doing intake, and one on the Megahalems, blowing through the heatsink and out the back. This seems to be acceptable for every component except the MB.

The motherboard chipset heatsink has an option of installing a 40mm fan on it. I'm considering getting a Scythe SY124020L 40mm fan to install on it. Does anyone have experience with those? Can they be undervolted effectively?

Secondly, I'm considering replacing some or all of the Tri-cool fans with Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mm fans and controlling them with a Zalman MFC1 fan controller. Thoughts? Would that be overkill?

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:07 pm

nikarul wrote:Would that be overkill?

depends...

are you poor? If not, then no. If yes, then probably.

I would prefer 800RPM scythe slip-streams tho...

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:37 pm

Interesting. Any reason you picked the 800RPM ones over the 1200RPM slipstreams? The SPCR review of them seems to favor the 1200RPM model.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:52 pm

nikarul wrote:Interesting. Any reason you picked the 800RPM ones over the 1200RPM slipstreams? The SPCR review of them seems to favor the 1200RPM model.

well.

I actually own a 1200 RPM slip stream. And although I love it, I use speedfan to keep it below 1000rpm. I mean, if you have a fan controler or like to use your mobo to set fan speeds with the headers, I would then recommend a 1200 model. But I've found that a lot of people prefer the 800 to "set and forget" because it can undervolt lower than the 1200.

I personally like the 1200 over the 800 because I like to have the power there when I need it. i.e. gaming. And when I dont need it, my computer actually shuts it off completely (which is 80% of the time).

hope this helped.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:25 am

hope this helped.

Yup. Ordered 3 1200 RPM slipstreams, the Zalman fan controller, and the 40mm fan today. We'll see how they do when they arrive. Thanks for the info.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:09 pm

Got the new fans installed. The 120mm slipstreams are a noticeably improvement over the stock P183 fans I have them turned down all the one on the Zalman fan controller and they're keeping system at least as cool as the stock fans were on medium. Very happy with them.

The 40mm fan I got for the chipset heatsink is a two wire fan with a three wire adapter, I tried hooking it up to the Zalman controller but got no light for it and adjusting the knob didn't seem to have any affect. I suspect the wire that the controller adjusts isn't used by the fan and its running as low as it would anyways. I just hooked it directly to the motherboard after I determined that. Its pretty quiet as it is.

The performance of the 40mm was disappointing, only lowering the MB temp. by a degree or two. I've played with a couple different fan arrangements with little or no results. I've read elsewhere that others have had the same issue and reportedly an Asus support person said that the chipset was expected to run 45-60 C. I'm going to experiment with fan layout a little more, but I suspect I'll just have to live with the chipset being hotter than the CPU at idle.

As a side note, I found out the 40mm fan wasn't quite compatible with the stands that come with the P6T, so I had to use a dremel to remove some of the extra plastic. Just a note for anyone out there considering the same MB/fan combination.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:25 pm

From an engineering standpoint, maybe it will make you feel better that despite the high mobo temps, if they are rated (and expected) to operate at those elevated temperatures, in no way is that compromising their longevity or reliability.

Pretend it's your first computer...would you think it's too hot? or are you basing these temps off your previous builds, persay?

Trust me, i'm a temperature freak. So i feel your frustration. but i think in this case I would rest assured theres no harm in its operating temp.

nikarul · Post by **nikarul** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:42 pm

Good point. I was going off of the temperature range given by lm_sensors in Linux (which is obviously not valid for this motherboard) and the assumption that the stock CPU cooler would do a better job of cooling it given the layout of the heatsinks (which it might). But your right, if its in the tolerance its probably fine.

And it could just mean the Megahalems is doing an awesome job of keeping the CPU temp low.

Recommendations for a new Gaming and Development PC?

Recommendations for a new Gaming and Development PC?

Re: Recommendations for a new Gaming and Development PC?

Re: Recommendations for a new Gaming and Development PC?

Re: Recommendations for a new Gaming and Development PC?