KK so i've read thorugh a million post on here and this is what i've come up for a new audio production system (yes i've seen plenty of them here!)
Moderate overclocking is a definite.
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CPU: Core i7-930 $345 CPL
MOBO: Asus P6T $239 CPL
Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws F3-12800CL8T-6GBRM (3x2GB) $229 x 2 = $458 PPCG
HD1: 2x OCZ Vertex 30GB SSD in raid 0 $179 x 2 = $358 PCCG
HD2: 1TB FBYS $169 CPL
PSU: Enermax Rev Evo 85+ 850W $289 PCCG
Case: Antec P183 $187 CPL
GFX: already have
Cooling: Prolimatech Megahalems Rev. B $82 PCCG
Nexus Real Silent 120mm Fans (5 pack) $49 PCCG
Other: Pioneer DVD drive $37 CPL
= $2213
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I will be running all OS and programs from the ssd raid0 and also whatever current project i'm working on.
I figure with the size of audio files it may be best to get an ssd with good sequential writes as opposed to 4kb read/writes????
I'm not looking to skimp on anything but with a 2-2.5k AUS range i'm looking to spend money of the most important things. (thus bypassing sata3/USB3)
So main questions are:
1: Are the OCZ vertex's best choice for running a ssd Raid0 for audio production use.
2: Would it be better to get Cas7 ram?
3: Is the powersupply overkill?
4: Will running the SSD's using onboard raid utilize 280mbps capacity of each sata port = 560mbps?
Any input much appreciated!
Quiet DAW
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
I think so. Try something like this:daloupe wrote:Oh and do i need a fan controller?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... s_id=25981
Much easier, simpler and reliable than the alternative types of fan controllers. And much neater as well.
Without knowing what kind of work you intend to do it's difficult to speculate on your parts list. But my $0.02, I think it's way overkill.
I got out of the industry a while ago, but my last mobile recording rig was a MOTU 896 FireWire interface (8 mic pres) to a 400 MHz G4 Mac Powerbook with a 120 GB 5400 rpm notebook drive. 8 tracks @ 24 bit x 44.1kHz uncompressed (~7.5 MB / track / minute) was easy for even that slow drive. The CPU had enough power for a handful of plugins per track. I tracked, edited and mixed w/Digital Performer 4. Mixes were exported as protools projects and mastered (3rd party) using a Mac QUADRA! This is ancient slow stuff, but quiet and stable as a rock.
So I think your overclocked i7 + RAID-ed SSD's is massive overkill. I would scale back the DAW and spend the savings on microphones and room treatments. Again, I don't know what your applications are.
I got out of the industry a while ago, but my last mobile recording rig was a MOTU 896 FireWire interface (8 mic pres) to a 400 MHz G4 Mac Powerbook with a 120 GB 5400 rpm notebook drive. 8 tracks @ 24 bit x 44.1kHz uncompressed (~7.5 MB / track / minute) was easy for even that slow drive. The CPU had enough power for a handful of plugins per track. I tracked, edited and mixed w/Digital Performer 4. Mixes were exported as protools projects and mastered (3rd party) using a Mac QUADRA! This is ancient slow stuff, but quiet and stable as a rock.
So I think your overclocked i7 + RAID-ed SSD's is massive overkill. I would scale back the DAW and spend the savings on microphones and room treatments. Again, I don't know what your applications are.
Yeah i should have mentioned how i'm using the rig.
ATM i'm using a Q6600 4gb ram with 7200rpm HD's and i can easily max the system at 3mins of a track forcing me to bounce out parts which i only like doing when it's by choice!
I'm not really recording, but rather running 50-60tracks of audio in cubase then more via fruityloops rewired.
Largely sound design experimental glitchy psychedlic stuff i like to process stuff ALOT, as in bussing one sound to 3 channels and running fx chains on each.
I want to be able to do this as much as possible without hitting the ceiling.
ATM i'm using a Q6600 4gb ram with 7200rpm HD's and i can easily max the system at 3mins of a track forcing me to bounce out parts which i only like doing when it's by choice!
I'm not really recording, but rather running 50-60tracks of audio in cubase then more via fruityloops rewired.
Largely sound design experimental glitchy psychedlic stuff i like to process stuff ALOT, as in bussing one sound to 3 channels and running fx chains on each.
I want to be able to do this as much as possible without hitting the ceiling.
This is coming out of my own pocket so i'm happy to spend 2-2.5, room treatments come out of the money we make from the music.Jay_S wrote: So I think your overclocked i7 + RAID-ed SSD's is massive overkill. I would scale back the DAW and spend the savings on microphones and room treatments. Again, I don't know what your applications are.
I suppose i'm looking to find the best way to spend my 2-2.5
What specifically do you mean by "max the system"? Before spending anything, you should assess where your current bottlenecks are. If I had to guess, based on what I highlighted above, you're probably CPU-bound.daloupe wrote:ATM i'm using a Q6600 4gb ram with 7200rpm HD's and i can easily max the system at 3mins of a track forcing me to bounce out parts which i only like doing when it's by choice!
I'm not really recording, but rather running 50-60tracks of audio in cubase then more via fruityloops rewired.
Largely sound design experimental glitchy psychedlic stuff i like to process stuff ALOT, as in bussing one sound to 3 channels and running fx chains on each.
These links may help:
Performance tests for Digital Audio Workstations
DAWBench and their respective forum.
Awesome thanks for the links it's the sort of thing i've been looking for!
In most cases by max the systems i am hitting the cpu ceiling, but sometimes that's also seems to be dependant on my hard drives as my daw has as CPU and Disk readout. Mostly the CPU hit it on it's own, but sometimes it coincides with Disk spikes.
Some plug ins cannot load more instances as i'm running out or ram. EG large ROMplers like east/west symph orchestra/colussus/Omnisphere.
I do think the most important bit is gonna be the CPU for using convulsion reverbs on the fly and linear phase eq's but i'm curious as to how the other components can help.
In most cases by max the systems i am hitting the cpu ceiling, but sometimes that's also seems to be dependant on my hard drives as my daw has as CPU and Disk readout. Mostly the CPU hit it on it's own, but sometimes it coincides with Disk spikes.
Some plug ins cannot load more instances as i'm running out or ram. EG large ROMplers like east/west symph orchestra/colussus/Omnisphere.
I do think the most important bit is gonna be the CPU for using convulsion reverbs on the fly and linear phase eq's but i'm curious as to how the other components can help.
With your workload and budget, have you considered server-class gear? Specifically, dual-socket boards?
You can go with 8 physical cores in a Supermicro H8DIi+ and a pair of AMD Opteron 2374 HE quad cores. Board + CPU's = $710 USD.
On the Intel side, there's the ASUS Z8NA-D6C with a pair of Xeon E5504 quads. Board + CPU's = $740 USD.
I'd stick it all in a rackmount chassis too, in a nice hush cabinet. With your budget, why hold back.
Have any sample/demo tracks to share? I'm into "experimental glitchy psychedlic" stuff myself, ala Stars of the Lid.
You can go with 8 physical cores in a Supermicro H8DIi+ and a pair of AMD Opteron 2374 HE quad cores. Board + CPU's = $710 USD.
On the Intel side, there's the ASUS Z8NA-D6C with a pair of Xeon E5504 quads. Board + CPU's = $740 USD.
I'd stick it all in a rackmount chassis too, in a nice hush cabinet. With your budget, why hold back.
Have any sample/demo tracks to share? I'm into "experimental glitchy psychedlic" stuff myself, ala Stars of the Lid.
yeah i'm at that "confused" point i was at 4 months ago when i was gonna get a new comp now LOL
u can hear some of my stuff at www.myspace.com/circuitbentobox
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Indicentally moving away from the raid0 i was thinking 2 seperate ssd's. One for OS and one for the audio projects.
Would there be one brand best for both or would one brand be better for OSand one for Audio?
EG in know the intel drives are much better for the 4kb read/writes. for the projects drive would i get better performance/cash ratio out of using say the OCZ vertex.
u can hear some of my stuff at www.myspace.com/circuitbentobox
...
Indicentally moving away from the raid0 i was thinking 2 seperate ssd's. One for OS and one for the audio projects.
Would there be one brand best for both or would one brand be better for OSand one for Audio?
EG in know the intel drives are much better for the 4kb read/writes. for the projects drive would i get better performance/cash ratio out of using say the OCZ vertex.
I'm one of those guys who thinks Raid 0 has no application in any situation today. If you need the throughput, consider Raid 10. High spindle count + redundancy = win.
I also dislike SSD's in servers/workstations because failed flash is completely gone. There's no recovering from a NAND failure. Controllers fail too, though I don't know what this means for data loss. Throw Raid-0 into the mix and a failure on either is catastrophic. Enterprise level SSD's are prohibitively expensive because 1) using the word "enterprise" = $markup$, and 2) they're resilient. Commercial SSD's are still too new for workstation loads, in my opinion. Especially considering how hard you're going to be hitting them, resiliency would be a concern of mine.
If audio production is a commercial (even semi-commercial) endeavor for you, you want to play it safe. Nothing will hurt your bottom line like hardware failure and data loss. No need to blaze trails here; stick to tried and tested gear. I'd bet a set of four Western Digital "RE" drives in raid10 would cover your disk throughput needs.
I also dislike SSD's in servers/workstations because failed flash is completely gone. There's no recovering from a NAND failure. Controllers fail too, though I don't know what this means for data loss. Throw Raid-0 into the mix and a failure on either is catastrophic. Enterprise level SSD's are prohibitively expensive because 1) using the word "enterprise" = $markup$, and 2) they're resilient. Commercial SSD's are still too new for workstation loads, in my opinion. Especially considering how hard you're going to be hitting them, resiliency would be a concern of mine.
If audio production is a commercial (even semi-commercial) endeavor for you, you want to play it safe. Nothing will hurt your bottom line like hardware failure and data loss. No need to blaze trails here; stick to tried and tested gear. I'd bet a set of four Western Digital "RE" drives in raid10 would cover your disk throughput needs.
see:daloupe wrote:I'm sick of the bottlenecks and hitting the ceiling.
I don't know if i should focus of the cpu, or even if focusing on that i will still get bottlenecks doing what i'm doing.
I wish there was a tool i could run behind my projects that would tell me what i would most benefit from lol
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Poke around at DAWBench. Their latest report:
"Intel i7 DAW Performance"
http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-i7part1.htm
Your Q6600 is similar to the QX6700, which is at the bottom of the charts. A i7 920 w/HT is 2x the performance.
"Intel i7 DAW Performance"
http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-i7part1.htm
Your Q6600 is similar to the QX6700, which is at the bottom of the charts. A i7 920 w/HT is 2x the performance.
Honestly, I would recommend against the raptor. It's just not necessary, and quite frankly, it's a dying breed. If you want a little extra room, i would stripe with a second 60gb OCZ vertex (Raid0). That will buy you 120gb on extremely fast drives for your OS, applications, and commonly loaded data..leave it at that.
If you want a little extra boost for other, less critical stuff, make a 200gb partition on the outer edge of your 1tb drive. That is, make it your first partition on the drive. Data on the outer edge of a hdd reads and writes faster because the drives tangential speed on the outer edge is greater than towards the middle. This can be demonstrated easily by picturing a merry-go-round, and how the outer edge will move you much faster than towards the middle. Place your less essential, yet more commonly accessed files here, and rest assured that they wont be fragmented to slower sections of the drive. They will be forced to stay in the faster, 200gb belt.
Finally, put all "fat" storage on the inner 800gb. This is stuff like movies, mp3s, etc.
If you want a little extra boost for other, less critical stuff, make a 200gb partition on the outer edge of your 1tb drive. That is, make it your first partition on the drive. Data on the outer edge of a hdd reads and writes faster because the drives tangential speed on the outer edge is greater than towards the middle. This can be demonstrated easily by picturing a merry-go-round, and how the outer edge will move you much faster than towards the middle. Place your less essential, yet more commonly accessed files here, and rest assured that they wont be fragmented to slower sections of the drive. They will be forced to stay in the faster, 200gb belt.
Finally, put all "fat" storage on the inner 800gb. This is stuff like movies, mp3s, etc.
How are your current 7200rpm HDD's configured? You can short-stroke any drive, so the Raptors may not make sense economically. I don't know what sort of usage patterns your storage exhibits, but if random I/O is important, you can't increase performance of mechanical storage without adding spindles. Hence the raid10 suggestion.
Those 300GB VR's are ~$200 each USD. For the same $$ you could, for example, assemble four Samsung HD502HJ's in raid10 and destroy the VR in sequential & random I/O, with redundancy (though at higher power consumption and noise).
Those 300GB VR's are ~$200 each USD. For the same $$ you could, for example, assemble four Samsung HD502HJ's in raid10 and destroy the VR in sequential & random I/O, with redundancy (though at higher power consumption and noise).
According to SPCR, if you remove the velociraptor from the cradle they come with, they are very quiet. Exceedingly quiet. Though that does blow your warranty.daloupe wrote:almost tempted to go for OCZ 60g Vertex for OS. a 300GB raptor for projects/samples/soundbanks and a 1tb black WD for everything else ect....
just not sure how loud the raptor will be
By the way they have just released a new generation of velociraptor. It comes in 400G and 600G.
Have you had a sniff at the forums here
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postl ... oard=PCMus
Tons of helpful advice. Quite a few system builders there too.
They reviewed a dual cpu i7 system recently
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar10/a ... matele.htm
Sounds as if you need CPU horsepower.
best of luck
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postl ... oard=PCMus
Tons of helpful advice. Quite a few system builders there too.
They reviewed a dual cpu i7 system recently
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar10/a ... matele.htm
Sounds as if you need CPU horsepower.
best of luck