mATX vs mITX, Atom vs i3/i5, Pico PSU vs something else

[sweeper240]

Thinking about making something like the following:
M350 Case
2 x 500 gb 2.5" HDD
Gigabyte H55 mITX (coming out soon)
2 or 4 gb DDR3
Core i3 or i5 which ever will be better

Or

Da-Box
Core i3/i5
mATX motherboard
Radeon 5xxx series Graphics Card
2 or 4 gb DDR3
whatever max capacity hdd configuration the Da-box will allow

Thoughts:

The Zotac Ion and or the H55 appears to have wake on usb issues and Turbo boost issues (this is what I have read)

I want the lowest power consumption possible but I also want to be able to stream and play 1080p content.

I want to be able to run the system almost 24/7.

I want to be able to run uTorrent

I want to be able to use this computer as a home file server (thus the need for at least 1 tb of space)

The idea of having an M350, small case, is nice but I wonder if the graphics performance for showing 1080p content is going to be bothersome. In which case I am better off going with the mATX build

What are your opinions? cost is not an issue.

Could I power an mATX system like this with PICO PSU?

[ame]

AFAIK the GPU embedded in the i3 and i5(6xx) chips is 4500HD and is perfectly capable of streaming HD video.

looking at your requirements, this is the most demanding task you plan on doing with this machine. So i'd say go for a mITX H55 + i3 combo (didn't see any details about this mobo yet but i'm gonna assume it works as advertised).

There is no need for an ATI 5XXX and i5 is overkill for what you want.

You will probably be able to power it using a Piko or fanless PSU.

[croddie]

AFAIK the GPU embedded in the i3 and i5(6xx) chips is 4500HD and is perfectly capable of streaming HD video.

No, it's "Intel HD graphics" and considerably more powerful - about twice the performance, and has some new features.

[croddie]

The Zotac Ion and or the H55 appears to have wake on usb issues and Turbo boost issues (this is what I have read)

The H55 can't have wake on USB issues; Intel is not that incompetent. The Zotac Ion board you should check; an early version had problems but it may have been solvable by a powered usb hub; check also whether later versions fixed the problem.

I want the lowest power consumption possible but I also want to be able to stream and play 1080p content.

If you need to decode 1080p content then go with an i3; otherwise atom. I don't know much about streaming; doesn't decoding go on at the client PC? (I'm assuming this is a server?)

The idea of having an M350, small case, is nice but I wonder if the graphics performance for showing 1080p content is going to be bothersome. In which case I am better off going with the mATX build

mATX is only necessary if you need a lot of expansion cards and plugs. Or have a processor with very high power consumption. Sounds like you won't need any expansion cards let alone multiple ones.

What are your opinions? cost is not an issue.

ITX, probably i3 if its a workstation, atom if it's running WHS.

Could I power an mATX system like this with PICO PSU?

mATX boards will take more power (combination of more stuff on them and voltage regulators targeting higher power processors).

[ilovejedd]

The H55 can't have wake on USB issues; Intel is not that incompetent.

Intel isn't. Zotac is.

By the way, the heatsink on the Zotac ION motherboard is too tall so you wouldn't be able to install 2x2.5" drives anyway using just the HDD brackets on the M350. You gotta get creative with drive placement.

Why not the following parts:
Silverstone SG05B w/300W SFX PSU
Intel DH57JG
Intel Core i3-530 2.93 GHz

The case has mounts for 1x5.25" slim optical, 1x3.5" HDD, 1x2.5" HDD while fitting in a smallish form factor.

For something a bit less expensive, there's also the Apex MI-008/MI-100. A 1TB 3.5" drive is bound to be less expensive than 2x 500GB 2.5" notebook drives.

[sweeper240]

So that is the dilemma.

If I go with a case that is larger than the M350 then I might as well use something like the Silverstone SG05B

but if i might as well use something like the SG05B then I might as well use a low power radeon 5xxx for part time use

which would make some sense out of using a 300W power supply as opposed to a PicoPSU 150 W

can an H55 motherboard switch graphic utilization from the CPU based intel hd graphics, to the dedicated pci-e graphics when needed?

What would be the total increase in energy consumption?

[sweeper240]

Wish List:

QTY 1 - Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Model BX80616I3530 - $119.99
QTY 1 - G.SKILL ECO Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBECO - $124.99
QTY 1 - SeaSonic S12 II SS-380GB 380W ATX12V V2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $59.99
QTY 1 - SAPPHIRE 100293DP Radeon HD 5570 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Low Profile Ready Video Card w/ Eyefinity - $89.99
QTY 1 - GIGABYTE GA-H57M-USB3 LGA 1156 Intel H57 HDMI USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - $119.99

2 terrabyte hdds or 1 smaller os/app drive and 1 or 1.5 terrabyte hdd for data.

Some kind of tower heatsink... would fanless be ok?
Thermalright? with S-flex or Noctua Fan

Case: langear - Da Box Classic mATX

Thoughts?

Thoughts on power supply?

if its not going to be super low wattage, then at least I want it to be fairly low wattage and super quiet and have the ability to play some games as well as 1080p HD content

[Ondo]

QTY 1 - SAPPHIRE 100293DP Radeon HD 5570 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Low Profile Ready Video Card w/ Eyefinity - $89.990

I'd suggest the POWERCOLOR Go! Green AX5570 1GBK3-NS3H Radeon HD 5570 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card instead. It's got a passive cooler, and may use less power - I haven't seen any benchmarks of it, but their Go! Green 5750 uses substantially less than the reference card. It's not low profile, but I don't think that matters in your case.

[ilovejedd]

For the sake of comparison, I currently have the following:

Silverstone Sugo SG06B (300W SFX PSU)
Intel DH57JG
Intel Core i3-530 2.93GHz
XFX GeForce GT 240 512MB GDDR5 (loud!)
Kingston 2x2GB DDR3 1333 CL9 1.5V
Western Digital Caviar GP 1TB WD10EADS

The whole build uses ~45-46W idle. I seem to recall seeing around 120W CPU+GPU load (IBT+Furmark), but I'm not really sure about that part. I overclocked the CPU a bit and forgot to write down the power consumption readings. Will take them again when I remove the GPU. Currently, I'm just testing the performance of the GT 240 with PCSX2 (PS2 emulator). So far, I'm pretty pleased with the system. Now I just have to figure out a way to make the GPU quieter in a confined space (will be using it inside a Sugo SG05B case) without having it overheat.

Unfortunately, Optimus isn't available for desktops so you can't just seamlessly switch from the Intel GMA HD IGP to a discrete GPU. Better find a card with low idle power consumption such as the Radeon HD5000 series.

[sweeper240]

Silverstone Sugo SG06B (300W SFX PSU)
Intel DH57JG
Intel Core i3-530 2.93GHz
XFX GeForce GT 240 512MB GDDR5 (loud!)
Kingston 2x2GB DDR3 1333 CL9 1.5V
Western Digital Caviar GP 1TB WD10EADS

The whole build uses ~45-46W idle.

If that is the case i should be able to just use a PICO PSU @ 150W

[ilovejedd]

If that is the case i should be able to just use a PICO PSU @ 150W

I'd get a 150W or greater DC brick, though. I remember hitting 150+W load on my build. Just can't remember if that was when the CPU was overclocked or not.

[ame]

I must ask,

Why the ATI GPU if your not gonna be gaming?

The integrated can handle any video playback.

[ilovejedd]

M350 Case
2 x 500 gb 2.5" HDD
Gigabyte H55 mITX (coming out soon)
2 or 4 gb DDR3
Core i3 or i5 which ever will be better

Noticed you just changed your original post. Anyhow, same dilemma applies here - i3/i5 heatsink will be too tall. By the way, if I remember correctly, the H55/H57 boards have pretty bad placement for the CPU (or maybe it's just the wider heatsink) making you hit both hard drive mounting possibilities.

For the case, why not the Morex T3500? It's bigger than the M350 but it's still pretty small. It only has 1x2.5" HDD and 1x5.25" slim optical but it's easy to find a way to install another 2.5" HDD in the optical drive slot.

[sweeper240]

Ok

So now this is what the system looks like

Lian Li PC-Q08B @ $119.99
Asus AT3IONT-I Deluxe (Intel Atom 330 Nvidia ION) Mini-ITX @ $199.99
G.SKILL ECO Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 @ $124.99
2 x WD Caviar Green WD20EARS 2 TB Sata 3.5" HDD @ $149.99 each
(Maybe RAID 1)
I could get an SSD for OS... but also I don't see anything wrong with just using an older HDD for this purpose as well, I have some 500gb 3.5" HDD, I also have a 2.5" 80gb available. The OS and applications will probably not exceed 40-60gb

I will probably eventually get a Logitech Dinovo mini


Whats this "windows home server" all about? Would that be a better choice than just using Windows 7 as the OS?

Keep it in mind that I will be using uTorrent.

[ilovejedd]

Lian Li PC-Q08B @ $119.99
Asus AT3IONT-I Deluxe (Intel Atom 330 Nvidia ION) Mini-ITX @ $199.99
G.SKILL ECO Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 @ $124.99
2 x WD Caviar Green WD20EARS 2 TB Sata 3.5" HDD @ $149.99 each
(Maybe RAID 1)
I could get an SSD for OS... but also I don't see anything wrong with just using an older HDD for this purpose as well, I have some 500gb 3.5" HDD, I also have a 2.5" 80gb available. The OS and applications will probably not exceed 40-60gb

I will probably eventually get a Logitech Dinovo mini

Highly suggest you reconsider the choice of motherboard. I think a Zotac GF9300-G/I/K-E+Celeron E3300/Pentium E5300 or Intel DH57JG+Core i3-530 with a SeaSonic S12II 380B or Corsair 400CX would give you more flexibility for the money. Gigabyte's also coming out with their own H55 Mini-ITX board and it might be worth seeing how it fares.

Whats this "windows home server" all about? Would that be a better choice than just using Windows 7 as the OS?

Keep it in mind that I will be using uTorrent.

It's basically a simplified, candified version of Windows Server 2003 targeted for home users. If you plan on using the PC for playback, you're better off using Windows 7.

[sweeper240]

Highly suggest you reconsider the choice of motherboard. I think a Zotac GF9300-G/I/K-E+Celeron E3300/Pentium E5300 or Intel DH57JG+Core i3-530 with a SeaSonic S12II 380B or Corsair 400CX would give you more flexibility for the money. Gigabyte's also coming out with their own H55 Mini-ITX board and it might be worth seeing how it fares.

Good advice (Gigabyte H55, or similar and i3).

I just did a rough energy consumption estimate here: http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine (if there is a better website let me know) and the system that I have specified @ 90% load will be less than 100 W.

If I switch to an H55 and i3: @ 90% load = 150 W

that is the reason why I am preferring the ION based solution, the system should be able to run 24/7 and idle less than 40 W, probably around 50/60 W while uploading torrents, and 70/90 W while playing 1080p content

Am I wrong about the power consumption required for an H55/i3 setup?

It's basically a simplified, candified version of Windows Server 2003 targeted for home users. If you plan on using the PC for playback, you're better off using Windows 7.

Understood, I looked at it, and Windows home server can utilize uTorrent, but I think you are right, its worth it to get Windows 7 Home Premium I would suppose


All in all, the build is more expensive than a WHS Windows Home Server box... this might cost me around $800.00 total
but its also capable of a lot more.

I don't have experience using RAID 1, many have told me I should have it (2 tb hdd for data, 2 tb hdd to mirror data), I'm thinking its just as well if I just backup the data occasionally. I have a hard time seeing the necessity to use Raid... then again if the capability is there I might as well use it.

BUT, what are the chances that the RAID controller will fail. then does this mean that I loose all the data on both hdds?

Might be better to just keep one 2 tb hdd in an external enclosure and back it up the important data via esata once in a while.

[Ondo]

Am I wrong about the power consumption required for an H55/i3 setup?

Yes - that power supply calculator does things like assuming the motherboard will use 39W. It's much better to get actual measured usage number, if possible.

For the H55/i3 setup, look at the SPCR review of the i5-661 here - the i3-530 should use a bit less power. There's also an Atom motherboard review here.

[sweeper240]

but this should illustrate

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2 ... u-review/8

60+ W idle

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/mother ... mini-itx/5

38 W idle


that is a 20+ W difference

Would anyone disagree that for the purposes of being a file server, torrent server, and media player, the system I outlined with the Asus Atom motherboard, is not superior to an H55/i3 setup?

[ilovejedd]

Just finished some power consumption tests on the system mentioned in an earlier post.

DH57JG+i3-530 stock+GT 240
boot: 80W
idle: 45W
CPU Load: 95W
GPU Load: 120W
CPU+GPU Load: 150W

DH57JG+i3-530 stock+IGP
boot: 55W
idle: 30W
CPU Load: 70W
GPU Load: 45W
CPU+GPU Load: 80W

CPU Load was with IntelBurnTest running. GPU Load was with Furmark. All power consumption values were measured from the wall using a Kill-A-Watt so the readings don't factor in power supply efficiency.

Rough estimate for your use (H55/H57 MB+i3-530+IGP+2 sticks DDR3 1.5V+2x3.5" green HDD):
idle: 35~40W
torrent: 35~45W
blu-ray: 40~50W

As for that bit-tech review, they had a Radeon HD 5870 which, I reckon, accounts for the additional wattage. I'm pretty sure the 750W PSU doesn't help either.

[micah161]

Sweeper240,

Not sure you saw this in the Green Computing Forum, but you always have the option of underclocking:

SPCR Thread:
viewtopic.php?t=57784

Link to Tom's Hardware Article they are discussing:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w ... ,2551.html

25W Idle sounds pretty good for a 24/7 machine.

[ilovejedd]

25W Idle sounds pretty good for a 24/7 machine.

Unfortunately, they got that by using a notebook drive (~2W max load, <1W idle). Add another 10W for 2x 3.5" green HDD's.

[micah161]

Unfortunately, they got that by using a notebook drive (~2W max load, <1W idle). Add another 10W for 2x 3.5" green HDD's.

True, and good point. The numbers on your DH57JG look even more impressive now that I see there are 2x 3.5" drives factored into that.

I'd like to update my system with similar usage to the OP. Here is what I am thinking so far:

GIGABYTE GA-H55-USB3 (ATX)
Intel i5-661
Intel X25-V (40GB SSD boot drive)
G.Skill Eco 2x2GB
ASUS ENGT240 Silent GeForce GT 240 1GB

I will use my current Earthwatts 380, 3.5" 1TB GreenPower Data Drive, and a Hauppauge PCI tuner card.

The i5 and the GT240 are probably an overkill but I'm hoping either Optimus drivers get ported to Linux or OSx86 implementation can utilize the graphics auto switching to power down the GT240 when not in use (99% of the time). If that works and I underclock the i5-661 I am hoping to get the whole system in the ~35W ballpark at Idle.