Building a new DAW: Need advice

[SilenceIKillYou]

Hi everybody!

Edit 6/10: (removed 1156)

I´ve been lurking this very helpful forum for some time and I´m now
ready to step out into to light.

I´m putting together a new DAW to replace my 7 year old P4.
I´ll be using it to compose and mix quiet large projects with up to a
100 audio tracks so I need a good amount of horse power.
Silence is also very important to me since I will be recording in the same
room as the computer is in. I´ve got money to spend because, as I said,
it´s been 7 years since I last bought a computer, but I want bang for my
hard-earned, hard-taxed Swedish bucks.
These are the parts I have in mind:

CPU: i7 950 (updated)
Heatsink: Prolimatech Megahalems
TIM: Indigo Xtreme
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (rev. 2.0)
Memory: OCZ 6Gb
Graphics card: Asus EN8400GS 512MB Geforce Silent (updated)
Case: Antec P183
PSU: Nexus NX-5000 (or Nexus Value 430 or Silverstone Nightjar ST45NF)
HDD: Samsung F3 1Gb x 2
HDD Enclosure: Scythe Quiet Drive x 2
DVD-burner: ?
Fans: Scythe Slip Stream 1200rpm x 2-3 or Nexus (updated)
Fan control: Zalman Fan Mate2 x 2-3
Acoustic treatment: Acoustipack Deluxe?
Fan grommets: AcoustiProducts Anti-Vibration Fan Mounts
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

As you see it´s all best-of SPCR!
I still have a few question marks to iron out before I pull the trigger.

2. Is it worth the cost/effort to get Indigo Xtreme over some other TIM?
I would´ve to order the Indigo from the US and that´s gonna cost me.

3. Which memory to get?
I´ve heard good things about OCZ as a brand but they have a number of
products (Gold/Platinum etc). And which frequency should I go for?
I know nothing about these things.

4. Graphics card?
I want an Nvidia-based card. It should be fanless and have a low power-draw.
Any suggestions?

5. PSU?
Is the Nightjar worth the extra cost?

6. Placement of Quiet Drives?
I´m thinking of removing the lower HDD cage and putting the
Quiet Drives on the floor on top of each other with foam feet to
allow at least some air to pass through. Good idea?

7. DVD-burner?
I guess anything will do?

8. How many fans do I need and where to put them?
I´m thinking one on the heatsink and one in the rear and one
in the lower compartment if I go with the passive Nightjar PSU.
I will take the Tri-Cools out and closing of the top vent.

9. How to control the speed of the fans?
I´m thinking of just undervolting them to 5V and be done with it.

10. Does this setup have potential to be inaudiable?
Or what dB should I expect?

I´m thankful for any advice!

[joetekubi]

The Prolimatech Megahalem should be good, but you will need a fan or two for it.

Rather than deciding your fans will or should run at 5V, you should make or get a fan controller and set them for a balance of noise and temperature. Here's a nice do it yourself writeup if you can solder:
viewtopic.php?t=59600

Or there are many commercial solutions.

The noise level is ultimately dependent on the noise floor in your environment. For most houses or apartments, the noise floor is about 35dB. If you have a carefully constructed studio the noise floor can go to 20-25dB.
For my purposes, buying components with about 18-20 dB noise has produced an i7 PC that is practically noiseless. See my sig for components.

HTH

[bonestonne]

1) 1366 platform all the way for future upgrades, the 1156 is crippled for the i7 line anyway.

2) TIM is TIM. The best I've used is the Innovation Cooling Diamond 7, but if it was down to buying it rather than testing it, I think what's in my computer is working just as it should.

3) I use G-Skill in my personal builds, however Corsair is my #2 choice. OC-Z is good, and I've heard nothing bad about them, as well as Patriot. I stay away from Kingston and A-Data, but have never heard horror stories about it.

4) Don't buy nVidia. Get an ATI 5xxx series, specifically the Powercolor Go Green series. nVidia does not have cards that can compete with that. If you're dead set on nVidia, get a GT2xx series card. Fanless ones are widely available and should be just fine for the job, but you do need graphics acceleration for the waveforms.

5) I would not say a Nightjar is worth the cost unless you really want fanless components. Enermax Pro87 600 should do just fine, if not the new Corsair power supplies coming out soon.

6) I don't see a problem with this. You might think of using Velcro instead, in case the computer has to move around. This will stop the vibrations (from what's left after the quiet drive) as well as keep them in place.

7) If it burns DVDs, could you ask for more? Silent ones are nice, but how often will it really be used?

3 fans. Rear exhaust, CPU fan, bottom chamber fan in the middle. 7V fans should do just fine, any brand you want. PWM would be an even better option if your motherboard supports that many PWM fans.

9) 5v would work fine, but don't have this set in stone, see what your temps are like first, and adjust fans as necessary. I say 7v as the happy medium, but that could change.

10) The case is very well insulated in terms of noise, as long as you take care of the rear grill (cutting it out and replacing it with a wire fan grill) you can expect whisper quiet operation. You'll probably get turbulence noise if you use intake fans against the front panel as it's not the most breathable (although there are worse cases). If it's on the desk, you might here a faint whoosh, if it's under the desk, you wont hear a thing.

I'm looking at a similar build for a customer for CAD design, but P183 builds are all fairly standard, it's all down to if a user keeps that top fan or not. I would suggest blocking it off with either a closed cell foam, or a couple layers of cardboard, a piece of paper or something will have a unique tone when the computer is on.

In terms of computing bandwidth, the 9xx series i7's is better, but in terms of cooling, the i7 8xx series is slightly cooler. If you're not running with the stock heatsink, and you need lots of juice, 9xx series is the one for you. This will also allow for a potential 6 core upgrade a couple years down the line without needing all new parts inside.

[SilenceIKillYou]

3) I use G-Skill in my personal builds, however Corsair is my #2 choice. OC-Z is good, and I've heard nothing bad about them, as well as Patriot. I stay away from Kingston and A-Data, but have never heard horror stories about it.

4) Don't buy nVidia. Get an ATI 5xxx series, specifically the Powercolor Go Green series. nVidia does not have cards that can compete with that. If you're dead set on nVidia, get a GT2xx series card. Fanless ones are widely available and should be just fine for the job, but you do need graphics acceleration for the waveforms.

Thank you for your input!
G-Skill is hard to come by in Sweden and I´ve heard of people who think Corsair has been going downhill the last few years. I wouldn´t know. I guess any of the top brands are ok. What I´m wondering about though is what speed to get. PC12800?

Why not Nvidia? Read somewhere that it´s good for a DAW. The chip on the ASUS card I added in my edit is 25 W. Is ATI better?

[SilenceIKillYou]

Oh, and also.

11. Mixing type of fans?
"Generally, you want to use the Nexus fans for static pressure applications
(heatsinks, radiators) and Slip Streams for case fans. "
Is this true?

[bonestonne]

ATI has better performance for the money, and to be really honest, you do need some graphic acceleration for drawing waveforms, and much overlooked part of DAWs. Powercolor makes the Go Green series, which are very power efficient, with plenty of power to get the job done.

Heatsinks and Radiators all have varying fin spacing. Generally, you want a fan that can keep up a good pressure without being affected by backpressure too much in order to keep them cool. Case fans generally don't have to worry about back pressure unless the grill is restrictive. Most users here cut out the grills and replace them with wire fan grills which are not restrictive much at all.

I've recently also been using Patriot RAM, and while I'm not sure of it's availability over there, it's never given me any problems.

You have no mention of an OS drive, I would strongly advise keeping your OS and apps separate from your audio, system crashes are devastating and unpredictable.

Those rubber fan mounts will make a difference like night and day as well.

[tim851]

6. Placement of Quiet Drives?
I´m thinking of removing the lower HDD cage and putting the
Quiet Drives on the floor on top of each other with foam feet to
allow at least some air to pass through. Good idea?

Two Quiet Drives will actually fit inside the bottom HDD cage! If you don't attach the (useless) spacers, an SQD is narrower than a normal 5.25" drive.

I had a P182 with the same bottom cage. It's perfect for that scenario. You can comfortably assemble everything outside the case. Sandwhich some foam between the SQDs, put them in the cage, then fill out the bottom, top and sides of the cage with more foam. That way, the SQDs get secured by the pressure. And the little gap in the middle is enough. I had a Green and a Black Power in there, the front intake fan was an S-Flex at 300 rpm, that was enough to keep the drives in Mid-30s at all time.

---
The X58 chipset is quite hot, I'd look around the web for input if a tower cooler with slow spinning fan(s) is enough to keep it in check. If your update intervals are always as long as the last one, it doesn't matter if you go with Socket 1156 or 1366. If you keep this system for 4 years, you will most likely want to change the mainboard anyway. I doubt that 1366 will still be around then.
Socket 1156 platform is a lot cooler. And all benchmarks around the web confirm that at comparable clock rates there is now tangible difference between 9xx and 8xx Core i7s.

The Nightjar is definitely no longer worth the money. Get an Enermax Modu87+ or Seasonic X-650.

I don't know how good the idea of a fixed RPM for a quad core CPU is. I have no idea if a DAW produces prolonged periods of load (like rendering on a Video Workstation), but if it does, fixed RPM means the fans have to either spin too fast at idle/low load or to slow on high load. The awesome and free software SpeedFan will most likely be able to control at least one of your fan headers.

[MikeC]

Well, if you're considering a fanless PSU, Seasonic X-400 or X-460 are the obvious choices now.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Fanless_P ... st_Roundup

Good advice so far, btw.

[SilenceIKillYou]

You have no mention of an OS drive, I would strongly advise keeping your OS and apps separate from your audio, system crashes are devastating and unpredictable.

I´ll have two F3´s, one for OS and one for audio.

[SilenceIKillYou]

Well, if you're considering a fanless PSU, Seasonic X-400 or X-460 are the obvious choices now.

I know that the Seasonic X-400 is the new king of the fanless hill, just forgot to update that in my shopping cart. : )
Some people report that the coil whine issues with the Gigabyte motherboard I´m considering are worsened with Seasonic PSUs and also Corsair ones. That´s a reason I´m considering the Nexus ones.

[bonestonne]

Use a smaller drive for the OS/apps, it will simply be more efficient for the applications.

1TB for audio data is fine, but for the OS and apps, 500GB is really more than enough. Realistically, how much data is really going to be stored on it? You'll want to combat file fragmentation, data speed and also cost. Price differences are very strange, but I still can't really say that using a 1TB for the OS/apps is a good choice.

I use fixed RPM fans on most of my system. CPU and GPU are fixed, I have my exhaust fan connected to the CPU header, and it works very well. Exhaust fan ramps up and cools off the system as a whole when needed, but my Core 2 Quad Q9400 never gives me issues, even when mastering a 16 channel live concert. Audio stresses RAM more than the CPU, but CPU power is still very important to have.

I will say right off the bat, because I've basically forgotten it until now, the difference between 6gb of RAM, and 12gb of RAM for what you say, (100+ tracks), will be massive. VSTs and other effects and plugins will absolutely devour your RAM. With my 8gb, I've seen usage go all the way up to 7.3gb and would love to jump to 16gb, but can't afford the jump.

I also don't think fan controllers are necessary if you choose fans carefully and put them where they need to be (CPU, GPU, exhaust).

[MikeC]

I know that the Seasonic X-400 is the new king of the fanless hill, just forgot to update that in my shopping cart. : )
Some people report that the coil whine issues with the Gigabyte motherboard I´m considering are worsened with Seasonic PSUs and also Corsair ones. That´s a reason I´m considering the Nexus ones.

Really?! The board itself is already a known whiner? Not sure why you would buy it knowing that. But if you do, the P183 is very good for noise containment -- and a bit of good foam damping for the left side panel would definitely help.

[SilenceIKillYou]

Well, some people have reported coil whine problems with it, not everybody. And no X58-motherboard I´m considering seems totally devoid of coil whine. Disabling some power saving options seem to help most people. Other than that it´s the perfect board for me! : )